Mass saturation of ALs is ruining the game

[+Deepdiggingmole]

As in the example of the Carpool in Assen (Netherlands) where nearly 600 ALs have been placed with no intent on showing folk a nice location and enjoying the area - you can sit in your car in the carpool and answer nearly 1200 AL questions and log all those stages. 
With the new output of ALs it is evident that many are discussing the possibility of doing something similar in the UK

This is not geocaching - these do not take you to a nice location and the geofencing limit has meant that all of these can be done without getting out of your car.
The image attached shows this lot in Assen and for perspective top to bottom and left to right are approx 700m in both directions. 
This is no different to armchair logging ALs which I know GCHQ outlawed some while back. So why is this allowed ?

[Keystone]

Adventures don't go through a review process, and the choice of locations is totally up to the account owner who received the Adventure credit.

 

Everyone reading my post should remember this the next time someone complains about the mean Reviewer who is enforcing the .1 mile cache saturation guideline.

Edited March 18 by Keystone

[+L0ne.R]

How does someone get so many ALs to hide? I only have one.

[+L0ne.R]

On 3/13/2024 at 7:38 PM, Deepdiggingmole said:

As in the example of the Carpool in Assen (Netherlands) where nearly 600 ALs have been placed with no intent on showing folk a nice location and enjoying the area - you can sit in your car in the carpool and answer nearly 1200 AL questions and log all those stages. 
With the new output of ALs it is evident that many are discussing the possibility of doing something similar in the UK

This is not geocaching - these do not take you to a nice location and the geofencing limit has meant that all of these can be done without getting out of your car.
The image attached shows this lot in Assen and for perspective top to bottom and left to right are approx 700m in both directions. 
This is no different to armchair logging ALs which I know GCHQ outlawed some while back. So why is this allowed ?

Reminds me of Munzee. Very predictable outcome. But I thought it was difficult to get an AL credit.

Edited March 15 by L0ne.R

[+Sottiwotti]

17 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

How does someone get so many ALs to hide? I only have one.

They work together with other people who have AL credits. Similar thing for the Atomium in Brussels, a crazy amount of ALs made by a lot of different people, to easily get a high number of finds

Edited March 14 by Sottiwotti

[+HHL]

Looks good, even with some AdventureLabs still missing.

 

[+thebruce0]

As much as "if you don't like it you can just ignore it" is true, there is something to be said about the impression of the geocaching activity when connected into the game is a virtual code-entering game that fills maps with icons that have nothing to do with "find something at these gps coordinates"; you know, the language of location. Inundation of 'geoarts' like this in the AL playground is associating geocaching with "the language of smiley counts".

I have nothing against ALs, but man, it's really a side-game that can piggy back on 'geocaching' and this kind of numbers-labbing is just getting out of hand.

YMMV.

ETA: ...in the context of geocaching. I think it's great if people can enjoy it. But it's getting a little crowded in here...

Edited March 14 by thebruce0

[+HHL]

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

Inundation of 'geoarts' like this in the AL playground is associating geocaching with "the language of smiley counts".

I completely agree with you.

[+Deepdiggingmole]

21 hours ago, Keystone said:

Adventures don't go through a review process, and the choice of locations is totally up to the account owner who received the Adventure credit.

 

Remember this the next time someone complains about the mean Reviewer who is enforcing the .1 mile cache saturation guideline.

No arguments there but I was aware if how these worked having a few credits myself. I was just wondering if GCHQ are ok with this misuse of the AL setup 

[+HHL]

7 hours ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

with this misuse of the AL setup 

It's not a misuse. It's just an other use.

Edited March 15 by HHL

[+Hynz]

15 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

As much as "if you don't like it you can just ignore it" is true,

Really? Sounds to me like saying "ignore the noise/smell/lighting" or are there any means of filtering out such misused (yes!) ALs?

[+HHL]

On 3/15/2024 at 9:51 AM, Hynz said:

are there any means of filtering out such misused (yes!) ALs

Yes, there are ways to ignore these ALs: Just do not visit those GeoArt locations. It's that simple. [Text entfernt auf Wunsch eines einzelnen Herrn.]

Edited March 16 by HHL
typo | censorship note

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 3/13/2024 at 10:54 PM, Keystone said:

Adventures don't go through a review process 

 

It's become very apparent they need to.

 

I understand Groundspeak's likely thinking: there's no physical container so what's the worst that could happen?

 

The lesson for Groundspeak, and everyone else, is that if people can then some of them will, no matter how much they shouldn't, even if breaks the rules. The only way to stop them is sufficient enforcement. The plethora of play-anywhere ALs has made that very apparent.

[+Goldenwattle]

If ALs were rare they would be more attractive. 

[+Goldenwattle]

The opposite of those crowded AL maps is here in Buenos Aires where I am visiting at present. It was sort of special, as today I found every AL in the city...all two of them. Felt much more special than a couple in a crowded field. The more 'special' of the two had a bonus cache as well.

[+Deepdiggingmole]

I have watched this thread - and had hoped that someone from GS would have commented - and apart from the one comment from a moderator who added that ALs are not reviewed which by the way - at no point was this a dig at reviewers. 
it would appear no one else from GS has shown interest - so it would seem GS are quite content with folk going to a car park - sitting in their car for several hours and answering around 1760 questions (yes, the number has increased) which I believe many if not all are multi choice (so you don't really have to know any answers you just work your way through the multi choice till you get the right one) without looking at anything outside their car, observing the surroundings or appreciating the location they have been brought to or even learnt anything from the exercise and in the process increasing their geocache find count by a really stupid amount 
I have completed many ALs but in the process I have visited many lovely locations in several countries - I have often had to really look hard for the answers - but in that process I have appreciated the locations, enjoyed the surroundings and learned something about the area I have been taken to 

I do understand each AL account recipient can do what they like with these when they recieve them - but I do not believe their number should be accredited to a geocache find count and myself would happily have these as separate entities 

[+Deepdiggingmole]

On 4/8/2024 at 2:22 AM, Goldenwattle said:

The opposite of those crowded AL maps is here in Buenos Aires where I am visiting at present. It was sort of special, as today I found every AL in the city...all two of them. Felt much more special than a couple in a crowded field. The more 'special' of the two had a bonus cache as well.

Yes - and you appreciated the location(s) they took you to 

[+Goldenwattle]

47 minutes ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

Yes - and you appreciated the location(s) they took you to 

One spot I was visiting anyway, but it was a good spot, and this AL had a bonus that actually existed. Not a huge amount of caches in Buenos Aires, made worse by a high percentage which are missing. Those mainly by one CO, who keeps logging OM logs after the reviewer puts a message. Considering the DNFs continue, the CO is doing OM logs without even being in Buenos Aires. A lot of wasted time going for caches which aren't there. The missing ones should all be archived by the reviewer to stop the CO's games!. ALs are a fall back when there is nothing else, otherwise I mostly ignore them.

The other AL though didn't take me anywhere. I sat in my hotel room and did it, so no, no location beyond my hotel room to appreciate. But that's ALs; just for the cheap numbers!!. Not a huge fan of ALs and don't do many.

Edited June 15 by Goldenwattle

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 6/15/2024 at 6:26 AM, Deepdiggingmole said:

it would seem GS are quite content with folk going to a car park - sitting in their car for several hours and answering around 1760 questions (yes, the number has increased) which I believe many if not all are multi choice (so you don't really have to know any answers you just work your way through the multi choice till you get the right one) without looking at anything outside their car, observing the surroundings or appreciating the location they have been brought to or even learnt anything from the exercise and in the process increasing their geocache find count by a really stupid amount

 

I was in Mackinaw City on vacation. There's a massive geoart of ALs in the adjacent straits, but all the stages seem to point to the Welcome Center. The change in geofencing restrictions mean you have to sit in the Welcome Center parking lot instead of play anywhere within 50 miles of the Straits, but that hasn't solved the problem and doesn't stop the violation of the letter and spirit of the rules. 

 

There are practical issues too. The sheer number of garbage ALs seemed to sometimes lag the app on my phone. They always made it difficult to find the half-dozen ALs in Mackinaw that are implemented as ALs were intended i.e. taking you to actual locations where there is actual sign or object to see to answer the question. 

[+thebruce0]

I think the existence of mass sit-and-claim ALs is desensitizing the public to them. The people who yearn for a 'cleaner' map are the bad guys because most people don't see an issue with the existence of these easy smileys. They are quick fixes, and really the only way you'd have a problem with them is if you're concerned for the game itself beyond your own experiences, and most people, really, are not. So disliking the fact that there are 1000 you can grab in a welcome center will only ever make you a bad guy in public. Why ruin someone else's fun? That's what it seems like to most people. 

Edited June 18 by thebruce0

[+Deepdiggingmole]

On 6/17/2024 at 8:29 PM, thebruce0 said:

The people who yearn for a 'cleaner' map are the bad guys because most people don't see an issue with the existence of these easy smileys

I hope you mean ....'are seen to be the bad guys' - because having an opinion about something that many think are ruining this game does not make them 'the bad guys'. 


 

[+thebruce0]

38 minutes ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

I hope you mean ....'are seen to be the bad guys'

Yes I thought the sarcasm would be evident.