Block Parties to celebrate 25th anniversary in 2025

[+Geocaching HQ]

This information was shared today on the Geocaching Blog.

 

Let’s celebrate 25 years of geocaching with Block Parties around the world! HQ is thrilled to announce that organizers of events that qualify for Mega- or Giga-Event status for 2025 may choose the Block Party icon for their event.

 

We recently asked the community to help us dream up exciting ways to celebrate 25 years of geocaching in 2025. Many of you suggested worldwide Block Parties, and we’re very happy to put the idea into motion!

 

HQ hosted the original Block Parties in Seattle from 2011 to 2015. Only 5,064 geocachers received the Block Party icon during those years, which goes to show that it was a fairly exclusive activity. We’re excited that this plan for 2025 will enable thousands more people to join in the Block Party fun.

 

In order for an event to qualify for the the Block Party icon, the event must:

• Take place between January 1, 2025 and December 31, 2025.
• Qualify as a Mega-Event or Giga-Event. 
  • Have at least 300 Will Attends.
  • Be at least 6 hours long.
• Highlight celebrating 25 years of geocaching. 
• Submit an application for Block Party status.

 

The Event host will choose whether to apply for the Mega-Event icon or apply for the Block Party icon. Visit the Help Center for details about Block Party guidelines and the application process.

 

We look forward to sharing additional details in the future. Do you have more ideas for celebrating 25 years of geocaching? Share them here!

[+JRandJuju]

How will we be able to search for events with this status?

[+Hügh]

1 hour ago, JRandJuju said:

How will we be able to search for events with this status?

 

https://www.geocaching.com/play/results/?ct=4738, though I certainly hope they make a list or add an option to the search filters so that we do not have to memorize the number 4738 (the ID number for the Block Party cache type.)

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:31 PM, Geocaching HQ said:

Highlight celebrating 25 years of geocaching. 

 

It will be interesting to see what this requirement looks like in practice.

 

Hopefully Groundspeak will offer some suggestions.

[Rock Chalk]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:59 AM, JRandJuju said:

How will we be able to search for events with this status?

 

HQ maintains a List of Upcoming Mega/Giga-Events/Block Parties. When new events with Block Party status are published, they will be added to that List.

[+Barnyard Dawg]

Sorry, but I fail to see why the Block Parties have to be tied to Mega or Giga Events.  By doing so, HQ limits effectively exclude many players in remote locations (not the first time this happens).  It is unfortunate that exactly those players who allow HQ to promote geocaching as a global activity would not be able to participate.  The fact is, it is simply not possible for communities in certain places (entire continents even) to create a Mega Event.  Could HQ not simply allow 1 or 2 players in countries from continents where a Mega is not likely to happen, but where there is interest and demand, to apply for Bock Party status for their event, so this cache-type would truly be available across the world, and not just in North America, Europa and Australia?  I mean, we too pay our premiums, and we too would like to be able to celebrate 25 years of geocaching without having to cough up the funds for a long-haul.

[+thebruce0]

Block Parties used to be in Seattle only. It wasn't excluding the rest of the world, it was a special occasion prompting people (who were able) to make the journey to attend the special event. So they're actually making block parties more accessible by extending them worldwide to mega+ events.

 

Whether they choose to provide some other means for regions without such an event to participate in the 25th anniversary celebrations, well that's up to them. But to say that extending them to mega+ events is exclusionary... enh.

 

Alternatively, if people in those regions that don't typically have mega events were to work together and help to create and promote the intent to have one - over the course of this whole year in preparation for 2025 (as late as the end of the year), that's also an option.

Edited January 15 by thebruce0

[+Barnyard Dawg]

@thebruce0, you say "they're actually making block parties more accessible by extending them worldwide to mega+ events", you point out exactly the contradiction in terms I try to highlight, worldwide to Mega-events isn't worldwide when Mega-events only take place in certain part of the world.

I can appreciate the fact that they are trying to make Block Parties more accessible, however, while most in North America and Europe would be able to attend for the price of a tank of fuel, this is not the case for players outside these regions.  Financial aspects aside, when they say "leave nothing but footprints", does that mean go fly 10k km/mi to collect an icon?

When you say "if people in those regions that don't typically have mega events were to work together and help to create and promote the intent to have one [...], that's also an option", I have to disagree.  I'm sure the people at HQ or perhaps Project-GC could tell you that even if you pool the active players of several neighbouring countries together (Southeast Asia), you would not reach the minimum number of players required to have an event obtain Mega status.  Can we cheat and create extra accounts to force things?  I'm sure we could!  Could we ask/beg visitors and outsiders to just drop "Will Attends" in support until we reach Mega status, knowing very well that only a fraction will actually attend?  I'm sure we could!  I'm also sure HQ would hold it against us if we play the system in such a way.  Is it therefore not a better solution for HQ, that when they use the term "global" or "worldwide", and tout geocaching as such, that they actually try and accommodate everyone?

Ideally, and this is also in the interest of the game, there should be a different approach to help players in remote countries.  The bar to reach a Mega event is simply too high for places like South America, Africa and Asia.  There is demand, we would like to engage more people and see the game grow, but nobody in their right mind would try to organise a Mega when the outcome, even with a year of prep and promotion, is already known to 99.9% negative.

Yes, we're geocaching, but we're not playing te same game, purely because we lack numbers.

The idea of awarding a Block Party event (or two) in countries far removed from a Mega, and where there is a clear demand, is not a bad one.  From our point of view, it certainly beats the current setup.  All it takes is a little good will at HQ to make the 25 year celebration truly global.

Edited January 15 by Barnyard Dawg
Spelling error

[+thebruce0]

...I think you missed the point. The original Block Party was only 1, only at the 'home' of geocaching, and people HAD to travel to attend it. You can choose to see that as exclusionary to the world and unfair, or you can choose to see that as a wild travel adventure only a lucky few geocachers might ever be able to do and something to 'dream of' (aka bucket list item).

 

The fact that Block Parties are now open to mega events from a year away for the entirety of 2025 that (can potentially) take place around the world means that MORE people can attend as there will fundamentally be one that is more accessible than a trip to Seattle, for anyone from anywhere in the world. You can choose to see that as exclusionary to every individual arbitrary region where a mega may not happen or be able to happen and see it as unfair, or you can choose to see that as a much more accessible opportunity for geocachers worldwide to attend one on a travel adventure that still only a lucky few - but a few more - might ever be able to do and something still to otherwise 'dream of'.

[+Barnyard Dawg]

I do get your side of the argument.  However, from our point of view, terms and conditions have not changed at all, we would still have to travel a very long distance for it.  Minimum distance at the moment is 5700km/3500mi, the next one sits at 6500km/4000mi and after that it jumps to 9000km/5600mi.  So yeah, it might very well be only 1 event in Seattle, on paper it doesn't make a difference.  Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, the expense for such a "wild travel adventure", in terms of time and effort, financial or environmental impact, cannot be justified.  It's ok, we're used to HQs definition and usage of "worldwide".  Enjoy the 25 years of geocaching celebrations, I'm sure it'll be great to read all about it in several of the upcoming newsletters.

[+thebruce0]

HQ can't host mega events worldwide. HQ is allowed the community to determine how far-reaching this hobby is.  I imagine people in populated areas would say how unfair it is that a relatively remote arbitrary regions gets an "easy" Block Party if they were to grant an exception due to someone's argument that it's unfair. Ultimately, the 'rule' for allowing a non-HQ Block Party applies equally the world over - that is why it's a worldwide benefit. But there's no chance that HQ could guarantee equal opportunity to attend one to every single geocacher worldwide; and many would argue that that would dilute the value and rarity of the opportunity - just as some are already arguing that allowing Block Parties again is diluting the 'value' of the original and unique icon.

 

So ultimately, HQ can't win either way. So they're choosing to open the door for more accessibility to earn the icon and attend an official "Block Party", without it becoming an 'everyone gets a medal' experience as a thank you to the worldwide community for 25 years of geocaching. They can't please everyone. But they can provide value, and that necessarily means rarity and effort.  Unfortunate for those unable to attend one, but there are many things in life everyone in unable to do or have, or requires greater effort than someone else.

 

I'd still say the best bet for regions where hosting one would be difficult is to spend the year and gather people who would be interested in helping make a mega happen in that region, and promote the crap out of it!  That's the community at work. And that helps the event retain its rarity and value.

[+Barnyard Dawg]

The 25th anniversary is intended to be a global event.  It is therefore a fair assumption that everyone who wishes to do so should be able to log a Block Party with reasonable effort.

 

I am not asking HQ to organise Megas across the globe, I'm only asking to make the Block Parties available everywhere by detaching it from Mega- and Giga Evens.  To attach Block Parties to Mega- and Giga-Events was a choice, one that effectively ensured that we will not see Block Parties in most parts of the world, accomodating the haves, excluding the have nots.  Why this choice?  Why not apply the same idea as the one behind Community Celebration Events?  If HQ had handpicked 1 or 2 players in every country where there are active geocachers, the total number of Block Parties would probably be less than the number of Megas that will appear in the coming year (currently week 3, already 40 on the list).  They would have limited the number of Block Parties to a minimum, while at the same time they would have increased availability.

@thebruce0, you say "...helps the event retain its rarity and value" ...not to worry, as it stands, HQ already ensured it remains a very, very rare event for us.  Going by your location, you will probably end up logging several Block Parties.  I am puzzled why you go all defense on behalf of HQ and support the need for Block Parties to be a costly "wild travel adventure"(expensive long haul) for players in far flung places?  Sorry to say, but the term hypocrisy comes to mind.

 

I wonder how geocachers in North America and Europe would respond if the roles were reversed, and how well the demand for a "wild travel adventure" would go down.

Perspective is everything.

[+thebruce0]

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

@thebruce0, you say "...helps the event retain its rarity and value" ...not to worry, as it stands, HQ already ensured it remains a very, very rare event for us.  Going by your location, you will probably end up logging several Block Parties.  I am puzzled why you go all defense on behalf of HQ and support the need for Block Parties to be a costly "wild travel adventure"(expensive long haul) for players in far flung places?  Sorry to say, but the term hypocrisy comes to mind.

You're not gaining any points here by making it personal.

No, you're far from correct, assuming my 'privilege' merely because of my relative proximity to mega events. My life is not raindrops and roses now when it comes to geocaching. And no, I'll be lucky if I'm able to get one, let alone two, Block Parties in 2025 the way my life is heading. OTOH, there's an annual event in my region that is wonderful and the longest running annual in Canada, but has never reached mega status - and I intend to make efforts to help the origanizer promote it in the hopes that we can have it a mega, thus block party, for 2025's annual event, especially for all the people in my region who have never been to a mega, can't afford the time or cost to travel even to a nearby mega, or maybe even never attended an event if they're relatively new by that time.

Hypocrisy? I'm doing exactly as I suggest. Try again.

[+Barnyard Dawg]

I wasn't trying to score points by making things personal, I was merely trying to point out that there is a difference between the haves and have nots, and the current setup presented would make it easier for you to log a Block Party, even if it is just the one.  You happily read right past the fact that Groundspeak's definition of worldwide is limited to Noth America, Europe and (parts of) Australia.  And you appear to approve the hurdle HQ threw up by attaching Block Parties to Megas and Gigas.

 

By no means entitled, we are well aware there is only one HQ for example.  However, if HQ says we are celebrating the game, I would like to think they would be so kind to try and include all players, not just those a stone's throw away from a Mega event.  Again, that was a choice, the question is why does it have to be like that?

 

You conveniently do not respond to my questions as to why HQ decided to attach this worldwide celebration to Mega- and Giga events that they know are limited to specific places with high volumes of players.  HQ knows the statistics; this means Block Parties have purposely been limited and localised.  You say promote the hell out of an event, but that really is not possible.  We simply do not have the numbers, even if we pool every active player (and assume an unlikely 100% support/attendance rate) from neighbouring countries.  Look up a few statistics, you would be surprised to learn how low the number of active players in these regions is.  Nobody will throw resources against the wind knowing very well a Mega is not going to happen under current conditions.  Having said that, the question still is, why does HQ opt to adopt an idea that locks out players from entire continents?  Why do you support and defend this?  We too are geocachers, why should we not be able to participate in the same celebration, and why should we not be able to log a Block Party without having to travel halfway across the world?  How would you feel if you were purposely sidetracked?  Entitled or... ?

Guidelines give us 3 months at best to reach Mega status, not an entire year.  As mentioned previously, we do not have the numbers.  Mega status would only be achievable if we brute force things and ask outsiders to drop a frauduleus will attend in support.  How many people would join that effort, knowing they will not be able to attend anyway and that they might even incur the wrath of reviewers and lackeys?  Would you drop a will attend in support?  Even if it is a one-off effort, do you think HQ would close an eye and quietly condone or take action and be quick about it and archive/prevent such an attempt?  I'm sure we can at least agree this would not be the way to go about it, and this leaves us without a viable option, because again, the numbers simply do not allow it.

As said, I'm sure it'll be great to read all about how wonderfull these "worldwide" celebrations were in several of the upcoming newsletters.  A little salt in a wound doesn't hurt anybody, right?  Be sure to keep an eye out for the flood of South American, African and Asian Mega Events.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Block Parties are intended to be large events, not simply any event that celebrates 25 years of geocaching.

 

You might as well ask the largest annual event in your country to be upgraded to Mega, even though the geocaching community is not yet large enough, because otherwise it is too hard to attend one.

 

The reality of geocaching is that the vast majority of geocaches and geocachers are in North America and Europe, and Groundspeak operates accordingly. 

[+thebruce0]

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

You happily read right past the fact that Groundspeak's definition of worldwide is limited to Noth America, Europe and (parts of) Australia.

No, I explained that worldwide means equal opportunity worldwide - They cannot grant a mega to every region. But every region has the equal opportunity to host one, if they are able to accomplish that feat. There is nothing HQ is doing to give any region an unfair advantage. It's up to the local communities to make it happen.  It's not going to be equal outcome, but it is equal opportunity, worldwide.

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

However, if HQ says we are celebrating the game, I would like to think they would be so kind to try and include all players, not just those a stone's throw away from a Mega event.

There are plenty of other ways people can celebrate 25 years of geocaching. HQ deciding to allow mega events to become a Block Party is, so far, one way they are officially celebrating 25 years. Undoubtedly there will be others. Have patience.

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

why does HQ opt to adopt an idea that locks out players from entire continents?  Why do you support and defend this?

I'm not defending what you call "locking out players from entire continents". HQ is doing no such thing. HQ cannot determine the geocaching makeup of communities worldwide. And HQ cannot/should not cater to the lowest common denominator. They are opening the door so that more people can attend a Block Party. They cannot do an "everyone or else no one" solution, that's ridiculous. As I mentioned earlier, now more people can attend Block Party than before, and even that has people upset that the original Block Party is no longer as rare. Those would rather you essentially never be able to attend a Block Party the way you're talking about your potential to attend one in spite of blowback from people who want the Block Party to remain rare and historic. HQ is making it easier for you; it just seems it's not easy enough, at least yet, and that still bothers you.  It's unfortunate, but don't be blaming HQ as if they're "locking you out" of attending.

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

Guidelines give us 3 months at best to reach Mega status, not an entire year.

There are two ways to have an event become a Block Party for 2025.  One is having a mega this year (300 attends) and planning for the same event next year, and the other is having enough Will Attends (300) on next year's event to bump it to mega status. As the mega can take place between Jan 1 and Dec 31 2025, it's actually up to close to TWO years to promote the event to at worst gain 300 Will Attends before submitting the application for a Block Party

 

6 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

A little salt in a wound doesn't hurt anybody, right?

It's never fun to train for a marathon and not win a medal or even get a participation trophy.  But we can't all get everything we want.  And it's generally just better to be happy for people who did earn a reward (not that a Block Party is a 'reward to be earned'), and to hope for better fortune next time.

Edited January 17 by thebruce0

[+Barnyard Dawg]

I believe you are wrong with the statement that HQ could not determine the geocaching makeup of communities worldwide.  Project-GC can show this data, so for sure HQ can pull the same data.  They can determine how many registered players there are, how many have been active in the last 12 months.  They would know where Mega events took place in the past, and would be able to make an educated guess where a Mega is not likely to happen anytime soon.  The question remains, knowing that they take place in a limited number of locations, why then did they feel the need to attach Block Parties it to a Mega/Giga?

 

Imho you severely underestimate how tiny the geocaching communities in some countries are, thus underestimating how much effort it would take to get 300 will attends on an event.  We would have to scrape together the bulk of active players on the Asian continent to get that done, it is not a realistic effort.    Equal opportunities, on paper perhaps.  In practise they are only equal if and when applied to a level playing field.  That field is far from level, and HQ clearly opted to aggravate that situation.

I do not think there is much more that we can say to try and convince each other without becoming repetitive and without irritating a moderator.  We can agree to disagree.

[+thebruce0]

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

I believe you are wrong with the statement that HQ could not determine the geocaching makeup of communities worldwide.  Project-GC can show this data, so for sure HQ can pull the same data.  They can determine how many registered players there are, how many have been active in the last 12 months.

You're describing analyzing the data, not determining the geocaching community. So no, they don't determine the geocaching community, they can only promote the hobby around the world as best they're able, and let the local regions do anything special or unique.  But this is now getting into evangelizing geocaching to the muggle world, and not about the nature of the celebration of 25 years of geocaching with Block Parties, available to any location that accomplishes hosting a mega event. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

The question remains, knowing that they take place in a limited number of locations, why then did they feel the need to attach Block Parties it to a Mega/Giga?

Maybe because they hope that people will step up, being excited about the possibility of hosting a unique instance of a rare event type, and rally the community together to create a mega if there isn't already one to become a BP, which itself will draw attendees because it's a 25 year celebration event, and they're nowhere near as common - both by location and by date - as regular events.

 

Ultimately the ball is in your court to see the glass as half empty and blame HQ, or half full and get motivated.

 

 

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

Imho you severely underestimate how tiny the geocaching communities in some countries are

Quite the opposite. We have at least one forum regular who consistently makes it well known how sparse and weak his local geocaching community is and how unfair some of their promo decisions feel. And obviously there are countries and regions that have almost no geocachers. So what about those ones? Should they be allowed to host an "event" and have it an "official" Block Party with 5 attendees? Just to be fair?  You're in an arbitrarily sparse region. You're basically arguing for an imbalance and unfair implementation of Block Party events that also reduces its rarity and value, were it to be implemented on a bell curve favouring arbitrarily sparse regions. And who makes that call? How many regions do they have to analyze to say which deserve this easing of the mega qualification? Who's going to be the fall guy to thumb up one region and thumb down another, and be hated by those communities? Because if they just let any event be a BP, no one would be happy. The threshold for Mega event is already an established bar.

 

I'll just go back to your best options - rally and hope to achieve a nearby mega event if you can't travel sufficiently (as would be more necessary with a Seattle-only BP), OR, wait to see what else HQ has in store to celebrate 25 years that is more accessible, OR take a year and save and plan a trip to a BP Mega event of your choice that's feasible for you to attend, and make journey and adventure out of it.

 

[+Barnyard Dawg]

I am not arguing for an imbalance and unfair implementation, that imbalance is already there and maintained.  Implementation issues a result of that.  And then there's you saying it is up to us to turn that around, an impossible task by any means because the difference between continents is of such magnitude that fair implementation does not allow us to even consider trying.  A dual track might indeed be the only solution that would allow us to catch up and create a more balanced playing field.  Certain parts of the game are simply not for us, we already accept that we get less out of our premium fees compared to others.  We do our part by keeping the game going by placing caches, but nobody in their right mind will throw good money to finance the impossible, especially when HQ appears to go out of its way to side-track us.

HQ wants to make rare icons available to allow die-hards in the game to catch up, which is great.  Rarity is relative, older players will still be able to boast logs on original events.  It does not appear that they are concerned with rarity; they made that painfully clear with the Labs, and they will even have to be careful with the Virtuals after yet another round.  When the first Locationless in years was launched they also attached this to a Mega, thankfully they did not make the same mistake with the second and third Locationless launched.  Someone who started last week will have to wait.  For their 25th, they decided to revive another rare icon, unfortunately they again limited it to a Mega... a type which on paper is available everywhere, but not so in real life.  They didn't have to do this, but they did!

It is fairly simple, if you want to celebrate, at least try and invite all the players.  Why bother otherwise.

[+barefootjeff]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:59 AM, thebruce0 said:

Should they be allowed to host an "event" and have it an "official" Block Party with 5 attendees?

 

I attended a (belated) 20-year anniversary Community Celebration event here with just 6 attendees, half of whom came up from Sydney. They probably went overboard the other way with those, though, as there seemed to be almost one every day in the final month or so. Luckily I got in a bit earlier with mine and had 24 attendees, most from Sydney or Newcastle.

 

18 hours ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

Rarity is relative, older players will still be able to boast logs on original events.  It does not appear that they are concerned with rarity; they made that painfully clear with the Labs, and they will even have to be careful with the Virtuals after yet another round.

 

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but rarity doesn't appeal much to me. There's a mega planned for Sydney in early 2025 (it was announced prior to the Block Party announcement) and I'll likely attend and enjoy it, regardless of whether it becomes a Block Party or not. It's the same with virtuals, the first one I did, back before there were any Virtual Rewards, was GC3E, which is also Australia's first cache, but I didn't seek it out for its icon or history, I just happened to be attending an event close by and joined the line of people walking across to do it. My region now has 5 virtuals, 4 from Rewards 2.0 and my own Rewards 4.0 that was published yesterday, but the appeal to me with those was the experience (and they're across a wide range of experiences), not the icons or the rarity. The rarest cache types here (apart from webcams, APE caches, etc.) are LBHs (3 here) and Wherigos (none); I even created a new LBH during the August Iconic Challenge promotion so the locals would have one close at hand to find, it got 5 finds (and 5 FPs) that month and nothing since so maybe there's a reason those cache types are rare here.

 

Hopefully there'll be other 25th anniversary things that will be accessible to players in places with few cachers and few caches, so maybe you'll just have to be content with those. For me, it's much more about wanting to participate than getting any rare icon or souvenir.

[+BernGPS]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:46 AM, Barnyard Dawg said:

Sorry, but I fail to see why the Block Parties have to be tied to Mega or Giga Events.  By doing so, HQ limits effectively exclude many players in remote locations (not the first time this happens).  It is unfortunate that exactly those players who allow HQ to promote geocaching as a global activity would not be able to participate.  The fact is, it is simply not possible for communities in certain places (entire continents even) to create a Mega Event.  Could HQ not simply allow 1 or 2 players in countries from continents where a Mega is not likely to happen, but where there is interest and demand, to apply for Bock Party status for their event, so this cache-type would truly be available across the world, and not just in North America, Europa and Australia?  I mean, we too pay our premiums, and we too would like to be able to celebrate 25 years of geocaching without having to cough up the funds for a long-haul.

It is indeed sad that where we are in Malaysia or South East Asia, it will be tough to garner a colossal number of 300 geocachers to express their willingness to attend an Mega/Block Party Event. A Mega Event has never happened in this neck of wood. 

 

For us to go to the USA or Europe would cost dearly bearing inind that the exchange rate at the present moment 1 USD/Euro is about the equivatent of RM 5. So it will cost a bomb for any of us to attend.

 

I support the suggestion to let one or 2 geocachers in those areas with less geocachers to organise one. Some of us are Premium members too.

[+Aldwych]

It would be good and inclusive for smaller communities to be able to join in celebrations. It may also help grow geocaching in our regions if we were not overlooked for such a significant event.

[+Goldenwattle]

On 1/17/2024 at 9:42 AM, Barnyard Dawg said:

The 25th anniversary is intended to be a global event.  It is therefore a fair assumption that everyone who wishes to do so should be able to log a Block Party with reasonable effort.

I agree with you. It is VERY obviously NOT a global event. It won't be a block party, but the best you could probably have is to hold a meet and greet and say let's celebrate 25 years.

[Riddler42]

Weighing in from Thailand, I can only confirm that we often feel like the fifth wheel on the car.  It is not easy to keep the game interesting and make it game grow.  On paper we do have the same options and tools available, but on the ground we are playing a different game.  Certain part of the game are not available to us, why ask for 100 caches for a souvenir, some places do not have this, some countries do not have this!  We have to largely ignore the souvenirs if we want to have caches available in the long run.  In-app pay to play limitations excluding some of the few caches we have also do not help us promote the game.  We do our best, but it is difficult with one arm tied behind our back.  Yes, we pay the same premium but get less for it.

[CacheMacaque]

Support from Indonesia as well.  Stop promoting things as worldwide if we're not included or, dare I say, purposely excluded, because we assume HQ is aware of the choices they make.  Agree with the statement that "it is unfortunate that exactly those players who allow HQ to promote geocaching as a global activity would not be able to participate".

[+capoaira]

I understand, that people who living in an area with not so much other cachers, are disappointed, that they haven't a real chance to attend a block party.

But in the end, it is just the icon, like a mega or giga icon - or a tradi, multi or unknown. Its just a thing for the statistics. 

You can celebrate 25 year's of geocaching also with smaller events. There are no difference between an event and block party except the icon and the number of visitors.

[+thebruce0]

We had Community Celebrations - those were accessible to the degree that people are desiring. We can't have everything. The Block Party was an extremely exclusive event that you MUST travel to Seattle for. Stop thinking that they're being exclusive by opening up that particular icon to mega events. A Block Party on every block would not be a Block Party (some would argue that awarding it to any mega event is also making it no longer a Block Party).  Where's the complaints that mega events are limited to 500 attendees in places that don't have 500 geocachers? Perhaps HQ could open up Community Celebration events again for non-mega events. This seems solely about the "Block Party" icon, ultimately. But that has been opened up for the world - wherever a mega event could occur (which is just as "exclusive" an icon/event type, by some of the arguments here). Once again, wait for whatever else is undoubtedly going to be announced to help more people celebrate 25 years (but don't quote me on that as I don't work at HQ). This one is for mega events.

 

I actually honestly think it would be a good idea to provide, say, Community Celebration events for 25+ people, then gift a 25 year souvenir for anyone who attends a CC event or a BP mega. That could be seen as more inclusive while retaining the rarity and significance of the Block Party type, which is not limited by rule to any region around the world and could take place anywhere the threshold for a Mega event is met.

Bring back the CC and provide a special souvenir for anyone who takes part in a 25 year celebration. win/win/win?

Edited February 5 by thebruce0

[+barefootjeff]

4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

I actually honestly think it would be a good idea to provide, say, Community Celebration events for 25+ people

 

Hmm, I attended 8 Community Celebration events, all in the last few months of 2022 and mostly in the Newcastle region (including one hosted by our reviewer) as well as two on the Central Coast and one in northern Sydney. None had 25+ attendees, the highest was 24 at my one at Umina Beach and the average was about 15. About the only events I've been to (apart from megas) that have had 25+ attendees were ones hosted by Geocaching NSW that attracted people from across the state. We have plenty of events around here, but they just don't attract large numbers because we don't have large numbers of active cachers to attract.

 

It felt like Community Celebration events were overdone last time, although part of that might have been the disruption caused by COVID that saw them all happen in late 2022. Maybe something a bit different this time around.

[+thebruce0]

Oh I agree, I feel like they overdid CC events and handed them out the wazoo so they lost their sheen. This wouldn't be an idea for people to get the CC event type, it would be to categorize events that opt in to be a 25year event that aren't mega events, and an umbrella under which to award the 25year souvenir for people who can't attend a megabut can attend a 'special' event, without reducing the sheen of the BP mega.

Of course there would be criticisms of the idea, there would be of any idea, it seems here, unless the Block Party event type could be applied to any event worldwide even if there were only 1 attendee. That's (frankly, imo, ridiculous). It's all a grey area of differing opinions of attendee counts, accessibility, etc. Why 25? Why not 20 in a slower area? Too much, maybe 15? How about just 5 because there's only 4 cachers in 100km square?

I only suggested 25 people because it's on theme of 25 years, and it's not unreasonable an event size for a special event in most any area of the world. If you can get 24 people, you can get 25, and even if an average event is much less, you could hit 25 if you know even a few more non-geocachers.

 

There will always be "not good enough" complaints. How about trying to find a solution that isn't just complaining and ranting and that might rather be enticing for HQ to consider, which isn't contrary to and trying to change official plans already in place and announced? *shrug*  Brainstorm.

[+barefootjeff]

2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

There will always be "not good enough" complaints. How about trying to find a solution that isn't just complaining and ranting and that might rather be enticing for HQ to consider, which isn't contrary to and trying to change official plans already in place and announced? *shrug*  Brainstorm.

 

I don't know, but I think something that focuses on memorable experiences rather than quantities would be good, except for the pure numbers hounds I guess. You can have great experiences even in places where there are few caches and cachers.

[+thebruce0]

Ya, but I'd guess there'd need to be an objective metric to determine if the event listing 'qualifies' for the category. I think that's typically why they go with expected attendee count.

[+Goldenwattle]

On 2/7/2024 at 7:00 AM, thebruce0 said:

Ya, but I'd guess there'd need to be an objective metric to determine if the event listing 'qualifies' for the category. I think that's typically why they go with expected attendee count.

Back to those numbers again, as with favourite points. Percentages tell a better story. For ease, in areas with lots of geocachers go with numbers, but in areas with few geocachers consideration should be given to allowing percentage when they manage to get a percentage over a certain number.

[+Barnyard Dawg]

On 2/8/2024 at 2:27 AM, Goldenwattle said:

Back to those numbers again, as with favourite points. Percentages tell a better story. For ease, in areas with lots of geocachers go with numbers, but in areas with few geocachers consideration should be given to allowing percentage when they manage to get a percentage over a certain number.

I favour such a solution.  Right now, for us in Asia, the demand is a 100% will attend and attendance rate from all active players, and then some!  Not a realistic demand.
 

 

On 2/5/2024 at 9:35 PM, thebruce0 said:

How about trying to find a solution that isn't just complaining and ranting and that might rather be enticing for HQ to consider, which isn't contrary to and trying to change official plans already in place and announced?

Disagree, it is not up to us to tell HQ what to do.  I repeat myself when I say they continuously promote the game as global, always keen to show a cache of the week from somewhere in the world, and they can do so thanks to us, the far-flung players.  But then when it comes to global events, all of a sudden, the world is no larger than North America, Europe and Australia, and even here there are large areas where people will not be reasonably close to such an event.  There is no redeeming excuse here, they have done it before and clearly did not learn from it, because someone suggested this idea again, and again they approved it.  Not cool.

Allow me to flip things around.  We are few and far between, but we did have events with a 100% active player attendance rate, that for us is a true Mega/Giga, could you match that in the US, have an event with a 100% attendance rate?  Instead, a mere fraction of a percentage seems to be enough to claim a certain status.  I do not hear you complain here?

You want to keep Block Parties rare; I understand your reasoning, but it also sounds selfish.  The fact that you were early to the game should not give you any privileges here.  I also understand that you will not have an issue logging at least one such Block-Party, so you don't really have to care about players elsewhere, making it easier for you to defend the current idea.  I wonder, would you say the same if you were the one 5000mi from it?  How would the communities in the US and Europe react if there was an Asia-exclusive event requiring all of you to do a long-haul in order to claim it?  Also, from your feedback I also understand that you struggle to comprehend the tight situation players face in some countries.  Anyway, those who found the original BP events will always be able to claim that they have done so, these will always be part of their statistics.  This by itself should not be a reason to deny players around the world a chance to join in the 25-year celebration.  Either we are part of the game or we are not, and given this is not some quantity run for a souvenir, but a celebration, HQ should go out of their way to include as many players as possible, and not just on paper!  HQ opts to make this rare icon available to current players as part of the celebration, on paper available to all, but only for a little while, so still retaining its appeal somehow.

Somehow the decision-making process at HQ always appears to be a painful one; remember the drama with Virtual Rewards 1.0 where they applied some weird calculation to determine where the virtuals should land, and angered player by the wording used in the campaign?  We got nothing out of that btw.  Even VR2.0 was a disaster, only 0.1% landed outside North America, Europe and Australia!  The first Locationless was tied to a poster of Signal or the mascotte, only to be found on Megas and Gigas (They did release others after realising how many players were excluded).  Lab Caches, originally also tied to Megas and Gigas, now they are everywhere, and for the average CO they are worthless, because of the flood of fake logs, they disabled some functions and now you can't see who logged them or delete fake finds, its build and look away!  Community Events, nyeah neutral opinion there.  But it seems to be a thing, tie things to Megas/Gigas, or kill things by sheer quantity.  Granted, VR4 was better for us.  I expect them to do a VR5 so they have about 20k of them on the map, but after this they should not do any more for the next 10 years if you want to keep it special.
 

On 2/6/2024 at 9:00 PM, thebruce0 said:

Ya, but I'd guess there'd need to be an objective metric to determine if the event listing 'qualifies' for the category. I think that's typically why they go with expected attendee count.

A solution?  They could take the map and apply a grid to it, determine if there are active players within that grid (long term COs active within the last 12 months for example, premium if need be), and drop 1 or 2 events per grid-tile.  This way, you would not have too many events in crowded areas able to organise multiple Megas events, and technically you would also be able to satisfy a lone cacher if he were the only one in that grid.  It would ensure a fair distribution that would spread the wealth a lot better.  I would leave the fine-tuning to HQ.
 

On 2/5/2024 at 11:00 AM, capoaira said:

You can celebrate 25 year's of geocaching also with smaller events.

I do not see why we should celebrate a game that chose to exclude us?


It is simple, in a good number of countries, the game literally stands or falls by the effort of a few die-hards who keep things going against all odds.  It would be nice if HQ would recognise these MVPs, and not go out of their way to irk them each and every time.  And if you want to do something special for a certain region only, something with a bit of exclusivity, look at Pokémon Go, and do a continent exclusive, but for every continent, not just one.  Or bring back a global series similar to the Ape caches.


Happy geocaching!

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

Somehow the decision-making process at HQ always appears to be a painful one; remember the drama with Virtual Rewards 1.0 where they applied some weird calculation to determine where the virtuals should land, and angered player by the wording used in the campaign?  We got nothing out of that btw.  Even VR2.0 was a disaster, only 0.1% landed outside North America, Europe and Australia! 

 

Really? 0.1% of 4000 is 4, yet Malaysia alone has 7 VR2 published, along with 6 VR3 and, so far, 4 VR4. Given that Malaysia has just over 1000 caches spread across 128 COs, I think you did rather well out of those virtual rewards. Japan, another Asian country that's not in North America, Europe or Australia, has a total of 97 virtuals, the great bulk of which are VR2 or later.

[+Barnyard Dawg]

3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Really? 0.1% of 4000 is 4, yet Malaysia alone has 7 VR2 published, along with 6 VR3 and, so far, 4 VR4. Given that Malaysia has just over 1000 caches spread across 128 COs, I think you did rather well out of those virtual rewards. Japan, another Asian country that's not in North America, Europe or Australia, has a total of 97 virtuals, the great bulk of which are VR2 or later.

Indeed, I crossed my numbers, mea culpa.

 

I was referring to VR1, released on August 24, 2017, from the 4000 released exactly 1% landed outside North America, Europe, ... Southeast Asia (SEA) received only 2, with another 4 thanks to visiting cachers!  Twist and turn as much as you want, that release was a fallacy; countries would only be eligible if they had 100 local players since the start of geocaching.  Most countries did not have that, and these would be pooled together.  Even then, only 2 were received, giving you an idea of the number of total players in SEA (less than 300 ever at that time).  Consequentially, players in SEA felt excluded and effectively punished for lack of activity in the past, regardless of their contributions.  We did the math in advance using PGC; we knew we wouldn't have a chance.  It was painful, because there would be no way that the outcome of that formula would not be known in advance, and we therefore have to assume it was created with that result in mind.  And we have seen this happen several times; the Adventure Labs, now again with Block Parties.  And that's my point, they know in advance that doing certain things in a certain way will have a certain result, and we fail to see why it has to be this way.  

As far as Malaysian COs are concerned, it appears to be 108 only over almost 25 years!  A small number of these count as expats.  The number of COs currently active in Malaysia today is of course far less!  HQ made a small correction effort with VR2 after complaints were dropped (also on this forum somewhere); 7 VR2 landed in Malaysia, 1 from a visitor; 6 VR3 of which 1 from a visitor, 4 VR4 so far, one donated by a visitor from the US.

But back to the topic, we will not likely to see a BlockParty in Asia under current terms and conditions, we simply do not have the numbers.  The sad bit is that I'm sure that HQ is well aware of that.

[+thebruce0]

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

You want to keep Block Parties rare; I understand your reasoning, but it also sounds selfish.  The fact that you were early to the game should not give you any privileges here.

Umm.. that's an "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. There is plenty I, for one, cannot receive since I've not been around since day 1. May as well allow anyone to become a charter member, eh? I mean, how unfair is it that they limited that label to only pre-2003 geocachers?

Selfish? Don't be ridiculous. I'll point again to the fact that that the icon was already exclusive and unattainable. They opened it to more people with no limitation to where it can be attained, per "worldwide".  I think it's "selfish" to demand that something that's by definition a limited thing be equitably attainable by anyone and everyone everywhere; or at least by a standard that brings you into the fold.

And no, there is no guarantee that I will attain the icon, myself. I have zero plans at the moment, and if I do travel for it, it will be at great cost, in relation to my personal capabilities at the moment. It's a value judgment I need to make, whether I want to spend the money and time to make the trek to whichever event I think is worth it. That may mean no event. That may play out as dedicated effort to help make a local event into one.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

I wonder, would you say the same if you were the one 5000mi from it?

100% absofrickinlutely Yes I would.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

How would the communities in the US and Europe react if there was an Asia-exclusive event requiring all of you to do a long-haul in order to claim it?

No change. I would be jealous of those who could make it, if I judged that it was not within my means to attend.  I would not demand that HQ somehow change the definition so that I could attend within my own arbitrary threshold of feasibility. If I do that, then I should support making it so that Joe Blow out in the boonies could host the same event himself, with no attendees, and still earn the same 'reward'. Ridiculous.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

Also, from your feedback I also understand that you struggle to comprehend the tight situation players face in some countries.

Thanks for telling me what I comprehend, but you are wrong.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

This by itself should not be a reason to deny players around the world a chance to join in the 25-year celebration. 

No one is denying anyone the chance to join a 25 year celebration. I point back to my and other earlier posts.  Megas, which can be held worldwide, and are merely an icon, are one method of celebrating 25 years, which anyone can attend, if it's within their threshold of ability (whether it's driving 100km or flying 5000 or planning and hosting).

You know what happens to an event when it flips from a mega icon to a block party icon? Nothing. It's still the same event. But now there's a different icon.  If anything changes, it's because the organizers are so pumped that they may make their own event bigger and better. You're so adamant that HQ is being unfair, and anyone who agrees with them is being selfish; all this for an icon?

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

Either we are part of the game or we are not, and given this is not some quantity run for a souvenir, but a celebration, HQ should go out of their way to include as many players as possible, and not just on paper!

I guess they should just open up Virtual caches for everyone freely again.  Open up webcam caches so people can log them from timbucktoo without having to travel and visit them. Hey may as well just let anyone log caches from the couch because it can be too costly for someone with 10 caches within 100km to get to that rare Virtual and get the icon. But that guy with 5 caches in 500km is worse off - he should get it too. I mean, if a handful of people 5000 miles from a mega event should be able to earn the Block Party icon on the basis of the fact that it may not be feasible to travel to get to the closest one and that's not fair...

You are opening a can of worms with this line of argumentation.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

Somehow the decision-making process at HQ always appears to be a painful one; remember the drama with Virtual Rewards 1.0

Yup. And with every iteration they are honing the 'selection' process, and it is never based on geographical region, outside of how the community itself is.  But even so, unless they open it up to everyone on the planet, someone will always be 'left out', and that's "not fair". Apparently.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

A solution?  They could take the map and apply a grid to it, determine if there are active players within that grid (long term COs active within the last 12 months for example, premium if need be), and drop 1 or 2 events per grid-tile.  This way, you would not have too many events in crowded areas able to organise multiple Megas events, and technically you would also be able to satisfy a lone cacher if he were the only one in that grid.  It would ensure a fair distribution that would spread the wealth a lot better.  I would leave the fine-tuning to HQ.

I was interested in the possible solution idea (yay!), until the limitation per grid tile. That is something that won't happen; and, it'd be "unfair" to someone who thinks they could run a better event than that other guy who got the right to the event in their tile merely because they claimed it first. That's a geographical limitation that does not exist currently.

A region currently could have multiple megas that become BP. How is that "fair"? Because the community determined that, not HQ.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

I do not see why we should celebrate a game that chose to exclude us?

Oh stop it, no one's being excluded.

 

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

It is simple, in a good number of countries, the game literally stands or falls by the effort of a few die-hards who keep things going against all odds.

Yep, what an awesome hobby that it even exists in some of these extremely remote areas, whether thanks to tourists or curious local individuals who found it online and decided to begin a local 'community'.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

It would be nice if HQ would recognise these MVPs, and not go out of their way to irk them each and every time.

I absolutely agree that it's nice when HQ recognizes and benefits people who help keep the game alive. And I'd greatly encourage them to continue to find more ways do so. I do not agree that making Block Parties available to any event worldwide is the answer.

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

Or bring back a global series similar to the Ape caches.

They brought back Seattle. And man, I really had to plan for a costly trip across the continent in order to finally visit that cache. And AFTER I'd already visited the 'replacement' non-official ape cache without the icon. So I had to visit it twice! They should have just given me the icon for visiting the location and container the first time so I didn't have to waste all that time and money on another trip.  Come to think of it, they should let someone closer to me be able to place a cache (or me!) and make it an APE cache, to celebrate that series, other people can earn the icon who can't reasonably make the trip. I mean, re-opening Seattle wasn't enough since before that it would have been totally unfair to have had to make the trip to Brazil just to get that icon. It's not fair that someone who can't travel to Brazil, and not even Seattle, can't log a find and earn the APE cache icon.  Come on HQ, don't you love us and appreciate us?

 

 

On 2/17/2024 at 10:28 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

we will not likely to see a BlockParty in Asia under current terms and conditions, we simply do not have the numbers.  The sad bit is that I'm sure that HQ is well aware of that.

Then no one in Asia will be earning any Mega event icon any time soon either. Why not complain about that?
Rather, how awesome would it be to attend "the first Asian mega event" once the community makes it happen?  Heck if I could attend it I might even do that - which would mean prioritizing the idea, planning and saving for it, if it's even possible. Just as anyone would need to do for any desire to travel anywhere. Even to the local cornerstore.

 

 

 

Best suggestion to come out of this:

 

On 2/17/2024 at 4:42 PM, Barnyard Dawg said:

Or bring back a global series similar to the Ape caches.

 

How about a new and different series like the APE caches. I would be 100% for that.

 

Edited February 20 by thebruce0

[+thebruce0]

Aaaaand update!

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2024/02/celebrate-25-years-of-geocaching-at-community-celebration-events
 

[+Barnyard Dawg]

 

10 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

100% absofrickinlutely Yes I would.

Doubt.

 

10 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Yup. And with every iteration they are honing the 'selection' process, and it is never based on geographical region, outside of how the community itself is.  But even so, unless they open it up to everyone on the planet, someone will always be 'left out', and that's "not fair". Apparently.

[...]
 

no one's being excluded.

@thebruce0   Your deafblindness remains stagering.  What's your definition of "worldwide"?

Yes, we are being excluded.  Terms and conditions apply.

 

10 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

I absolutely agree that it's nice when HQ recognizes and benefits people who help keep the game alive. And I'd greatly encourage them to continue to find more ways do so. I do not agree that making Block Parties available to any event worldwide is the answer.

 

You do not agree, because you want to keep it "rare".  All for ourselves and nothing for other people, very nice.  So why should we not have access to a BP within reasonable distance?  It is not about "fair", what I'm saying is, what kind of celebration is it when the haves are invited and the have nots are left to read all about it?  Interesting that you are defending the continuation of the current imbalance.  Why?
 

11 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Then no one in Asia will be earning any Mega event icon any time soon either. Why not complain about that?

We did.  Deaf man's ears and all that.  At some point discussions turn into arguments, and things grind to a halt.  We pay the same price, but do not play the same game, it is the reason why people don't stick around and eventually go catch Pokémon's instead.  I'm not going to go into a lengthy bit about this, I've mentioned a few things earlier.

 

11 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Rather, how awesome would it be to attend "the first Asian mega event" once the community makes it happen?

 

The fact that you are still suggesting this as a viable option baffles the mind.  It is not possible, and it won't be for a long time to come!

Unless, ... we get hundreds of players fake-logging will attends in support.  I'm sure there are enough players willing to do so in good faith, but I doubt HQ would appreciate it, and they would probably shut that effort down in a hurry.  They know the statistics very well, and they would know something would be amiss when suddenly an event reaches Mega status in a country where the average number of attendees is less than 10.  Maybe someone from HQ could answer that question right here; would you allow it if we were to force a Mega, knowing there might at best only be a few dozen players from neighbouring countries?
 

8 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Aaaaand update!

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2024/02/celebrate-25-years-of-geocaching-at-community-celebration-events
 

 

Not the same.  And literally everyone gets one, so it will be as special as a regular event now.  Going by the year 2023 in review, 12k+ players will receive one, pre-covid times, that number would have been 42k!  That's a lot of potential Community Celebration Events, and just as many and more regular events.  Publication requirements are a thing now, it seems like they are not just celebrating, but also trying to boost the statistics.

 

Happy anniversary, I guess?  Looking forward to reading all about it on socials and newsletters.

 

[+thebruce0]

33 minutes ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

And literally everyone gets one, so it will be as special as a regular event now.

The irony.

 

30 minutes ago, Barnyard Dawg said:

Deaf man's ears and all that.  At some point discussions turn into arguments, and things grind to a halt.

Exactly. I don't think there's anything more that can be said. Cheers.