Barnyard Dawg

Doubt. @thebruce0 Your deafblindness remains stagering. What's your definition of "worldwide"? Yes, we are being excluded. Terms and conditions apply. You do not agree, because you want to keep it "rare". All for ourselves and nothing for other people, very nice. So why should we not have access to a BP within reasonable distance? It is not about "fair", what I'm saying is, what kind of celebration is it when the haves are invited and the have nots are left to read all about it? Interesting that you are defending the continuation of the current imbalance. Why? We did. Deaf man's ears and all that. At some point discussions turn into arguments, and things grind to a halt. We pay the same price, but do not play the same game, it is the reason why people don't stick around and eventually go catch Pokémon's instead. I'm not going to go into a lengthy bit about this, I've mentioned a few things earlier. The fact that you are still suggesting this as a viable option baffles the mind. It is not possible, and it won't be for a long time to come! Unless, ... we get hundreds of players fake-logging will attends in support. I'm sure there are enough players willing to do so in good faith, but I doubt HQ would appreciate it, and they would probably shut that effort down in a hurry. They know the statistics very well, and they would know something would be amiss when suddenly an event reaches Mega status in a country where the average number of attendees is less than 10. Maybe someone from HQ could answer that question right here; would you allow it if we were to force a Mega, knowing there might at best only be a few dozen players from neighbouring countries? Not the same. And literally everyone gets one, so it will be as special as a regular event now. Going by the year 2023 in review, 12k+ players will receive one, pre-covid times, that number would have been 42k! That's a lot of potential Community Celebration Events, and just as many and more regular events. Publication requirements are a thing now, it seems like they are not just celebrating, but also trying to boost the statistics. Happy anniversary, I guess? Looking forward to reading all about it on socials and newsletters.

Indeed, I crossed my numbers, mea culpa. I was referring to VR1, released on August 24, 2017, from the 4000 released exactly 1% landed outside North America, Europe, ... Southeast Asia (SEA) received only 2, with another 4 thanks to visiting cachers! Twist and turn as much as you want, that release was a fallacy; countries would only be eligible if they had 100 local players since the start of geocaching. Most countries did not have that, and these would be pooled together. Even then, only 2 were received, giving you an idea of the number of total players in SEA (less than 300 ever at that time). Consequentially, players in SEA felt excluded and effectively punished for lack of activity in the past, regardless of their contributions. We did the math in advance using PGC; we knew we wouldn't have a chance. It was painful, because there would be no way that the outcome of that formula would not be known in advance, and we therefore have to assume it was created with that result in mind. And we have seen this happen several times; the Adventure Labs, now again with Block Parties. And that's my point, they know in advance that doing certain things in a certain way will have a certain result, and we fail to see why it has to be this way. As far as Malaysian COs are concerned, it appears to be 108 only over almost 25 years! A small number of these count as expats. The number of COs currently active in Malaysia today is of course far less! HQ made a small correction effort with VR2 after complaints were dropped (also on this forum somewhere); 7 VR2 landed in Malaysia, 1 from a visitor; 6 VR3 of which 1 from a visitor, 4 VR4 so far, one donated by a visitor from the US. But back to the topic, we will not likely to see a BlockParty in Asia under current terms and conditions, we simply do not have the numbers. The sad bit is that I'm sure that HQ is well aware of that.

I favour such a solution. Right now, for us in Asia, the demand is a 100% will attend and attendance rate from all active players, and then some! Not a realistic demand. Disagree, it is not up to us to tell HQ what to do. I repeat myself when I say they continuously promote the game as global, always keen to show a cache of the week from somewhere in the world, and they can do so thanks to us, the far-flung players. But then when it comes to global events, all of a sudden, the world is no larger than North America, Europe and Australia, and even here there are large areas where people will not be reasonably close to such an event. There is no redeeming excuse here, they have done it before and clearly did not learn from it, because someone suggested this idea again, and again they approved it. Not cool. Allow me to flip things around. We are few and far between, but we did have events with a 100% active player attendance rate, that for us is a true Mega/Giga, could you match that in the US, have an event with a 100% attendance rate? Instead, a mere fraction of a percentage seems to be enough to claim a certain status. I do not hear you complain here? You want to keep Block Parties rare; I understand your reasoning, but it also sounds selfish. The fact that you were early to the game should not give you any privileges here. I also understand that you will not have an issue logging at least one such Block-Party, so you don't really have to care about players elsewhere, making it easier for you to defend the current idea. I wonder, would you say the same if you were the one 5000mi from it? How would the communities in the US and Europe react if there was an Asia-exclusive event requiring all of you to do a long-haul in order to claim it? Also, from your feedback I also understand that you struggle to comprehend the tight situation players face in some countries. Anyway, those who found the original BP events will always be able to claim that they have done so, these will always be part of their statistics. This by itself should not be a reason to deny players around the world a chance to join in the 25-year celebration. Either we are part of the game or we are not, and given this is not some quantity run for a souvenir, but a celebration, HQ should go out of their way to include as many players as possible, and not just on paper! HQ opts to make this rare icon available to current players as part of the celebration, on paper available to all, but only for a little while, so still retaining its appeal somehow. Somehow the decision-making process at HQ always appears to be a painful one; remember the drama with Virtual Rewards 1.0 where they applied some weird calculation to determine where the virtuals should land, and angered player by the wording used in the campaign? We got nothing out of that btw. Even VR2.0 was a disaster, only 0.1% landed outside North America, Europe and Australia! The first Locationless was tied to a poster of Signal or the mascotte, only to be found on Megas and Gigas (They did release others after realising how many players were excluded). Lab Caches, originally also tied to Megas and Gigas, now they are everywhere, and for the average CO they are worthless, because of the flood of fake logs, they disabled some functions and now you can't see who logged them or delete fake finds, its build and look away! Community Events, nyeah neutral opinion there. But it seems to be a thing, tie things to Megas/Gigas, or kill things by sheer quantity. Granted, VR4 was better for us. I expect them to do a VR5 so they have about 20k of them on the map, but after this they should not do any more for the next 10 years if you want to keep it special. A solution? They could take the map and apply a grid to it, determine if there are active players within that grid (long term COs active within the last 12 months for example, premium if need be), and drop 1 or 2 events per grid-tile. This way, you would not have too many events in crowded areas able to organise multiple Megas events, and technically you would also be able to satisfy a lone cacher if he were the only one in that grid. It would ensure a fair distribution that would spread the wealth a lot better. I would leave the fine-tuning to HQ. I do not see why we should celebrate a game that chose to exclude us? It is simple, in a good number of countries, the game literally stands or falls by the effort of a few die-hards who keep things going against all odds. It would be nice if HQ would recognise these MVPs, and not go out of their way to irk them each and every time. And if you want to do something special for a certain region only, something with a bit of exclusivity, look at Pokémon Go, and do a continent exclusive, but for every continent, not just one. Or bring back a global series similar to the Ape caches. Happy geocaching!

I am not arguing for an imbalance and unfair implementation, that imbalance is already there and maintained. Implementation issues a result of that. And then there's you saying it is up to us to turn that around, an impossible task by any means because the difference between continents is of such magnitude that fair implementation does not allow us to even consider trying. A dual track might indeed be the only solution that would allow us to catch up and create a more balanced playing field. Certain parts of the game are simply not for us, we already accept that we get less out of our premium fees compared to others. We do our part by keeping the game going by placing caches, but nobody in their right mind will throw good money to finance the impossible, especially when HQ appears to go out of its way to side-track us. HQ wants to make rare icons available to allow die-hards in the game to catch up, which is great. Rarity is relative, older players will still be able to boast logs on original events. It does not appear that they are concerned with rarity; they made that painfully clear with the Labs, and they will even have to be careful with the Virtuals after yet another round. When the first Locationless in years was launched they also attached this to a Mega, thankfully they did not make the same mistake with the second and third Locationless launched. Someone who started last week will have to wait. For their 25th, they decided to revive another rare icon, unfortunately they again limited it to a Mega... a type which on paper is available everywhere, but not so in real life. They didn't have to do this, but they did! It is fairly simple, if you want to celebrate, at least try and invite all the players. Why bother otherwise.

I believe you are wrong with the statement that HQ could not determine the geocaching makeup of communities worldwide. Project-GC can show this data, so for sure HQ can pull the same data. They can determine how many registered players there are, how many have been active in the last 12 months. They would know where Mega events took place in the past, and would be able to make an educated guess where a Mega is not likely to happen anytime soon. The question remains, knowing that they take place in a limited number of locations, why then did they feel the need to attach Block Parties it to a Mega/Giga? Imho you severely underestimate how tiny the geocaching communities in some countries are, thus underestimating how much effort it would take to get 300 will attends on an event. We would have to scrape together the bulk of active players on the Asian continent to get that done, it is not a realistic effort. Equal opportunities, on paper perhaps. In practise they are only equal if and when applied to a level playing field. That field is far from level, and HQ clearly opted to aggravate that situation. I do not think there is much more that we can say to try and convince each other without becoming repetitive and without irritating a moderator. We can agree to disagree.

I wasn't trying to score points by making things personal, I was merely trying to point out that there is a difference between the haves and have nots, and the current setup presented would make it easier for you to log a Block Party, even if it is just the one. You happily read right past the fact that Groundspeak's definition of worldwide is limited to Noth America, Europe and (parts of) Australia. And you appear to approve the hurdle HQ threw up by attaching Block Parties to Megas and Gigas. By no means entitled, we are well aware there is only one HQ for example. However, if HQ says we are celebrating the game, I would like to think they would be so kind to try and include all players, not just those a stone's throw away from a Mega event. Again, that was a choice, the question is why does it have to be like that? You conveniently do not respond to my questions as to why HQ decided to attach this worldwide celebration to Mega- and Giga events that they know are limited to specific places with high volumes of players. HQ knows the statistics; this means Block Parties have purposely been limited and localised. You say promote the hell out of an event, but that really is not possible. We simply do not have the numbers, even if we pool every active player (and assume an unlikely 100% support/attendance rate) from neighbouring countries. Look up a few statistics, you would be surprised to learn how low the number of active players in these regions is. Nobody will throw resources against the wind knowing very well a Mega is not going to happen under current conditions. Having said that, the question still is, why does HQ opt to adopt an idea that locks out players from entire continents? Why do you support and defend this? We too are geocachers, why should we not be able to participate in the same celebration, and why should we not be able to log a Block Party without having to travel halfway across the world? How would you feel if you were purposely sidetracked? Entitled or... ? Guidelines give us 3 months at best to reach Mega status, not an entire year. As mentioned previously, we do not have the numbers. Mega status would only be achievable if we brute force things and ask outsiders to drop a frauduleus will attend in support. How many people would join that effort, knowing they will not be able to attend anyway and that they might even incur the wrath of reviewers and lackeys? Would you drop a will attend in support? Even if it is a one-off effort, do you think HQ would close an eye and quietly condone or take action and be quick about it and archive/prevent such an attempt? I'm sure we can at least agree this would not be the way to go about it, and this leaves us without a viable option, because again, the numbers simply do not allow it. As said, I'm sure it'll be great to read all about how wonderfull these "worldwide" celebrations were in several of the upcoming newsletters. A little salt in a wound doesn't hurt anybody, right? Be sure to keep an eye out for the flood of South American, African and Asian Mega Events.

The 25th anniversary is intended to be a global event. It is therefore a fair assumption that everyone who wishes to do so should be able to log a Block Party with reasonable effort. I am not asking HQ to organise Megas across the globe, I'm only asking to make the Block Parties available everywhere by detaching it from Mega- and Giga Evens. To attach Block Parties to Mega- and Giga-Events was a choice, one that effectively ensured that we will not see Block Parties in most parts of the world, accomodating the haves, excluding the have nots. Why this choice? Why not apply the same idea as the one behind Community Celebration Events? If HQ had handpicked 1 or 2 players in every country where there are active geocachers, the total number of Block Parties would probably be less than the number of Megas that will appear in the coming year (currently week 3, already 40 on the list). They would have limited the number of Block Parties to a minimum, while at the same time they would have increased availability. @thebruce0, you say "...helps the event retain its rarity and value" ...not to worry, as it stands, HQ already ensured it remains a very, very rare event for us. Going by your location, you will probably end up logging several Block Parties. I am puzzled why you go all defense on behalf of HQ and support the need for Block Parties to be a costly "wild travel adventure"(expensive long haul) for players in far flung places? Sorry to say, but the term hypocrisy comes to mind. I wonder how geocachers in North America and Europe would respond if the roles were reversed, and how well the demand for a "wild travel adventure" would go down. Perspective is everything.

I do get your side of the argument. However, from our point of view, terms and conditions have not changed at all, we would still have to travel a very long distance for it. Minimum distance at the moment is 5700km/3500mi, the next one sits at 6500km/4000mi and after that it jumps to 9000km/5600mi. So yeah, it might very well be only 1 event in Seattle, on paper it doesn't make a difference. Unfortunately, when it comes down to it, the expense for such a "wild travel adventure", in terms of time and effort, financial or environmental impact, cannot be justified. It's ok, we're used to HQs definition and usage of "worldwide". Enjoy the 25 years of geocaching celebrations, I'm sure it'll be great to read all about it in several of the upcoming newsletters.

@thebruce0, you say "they're actually making block parties more accessible by extending them worldwide to mega+ events", you point out exactly the contradiction in terms I try to highlight, worldwide to Mega-events isn't worldwide when Mega-events only take place in certain part of the world. I can appreciate the fact that they are trying to make Block Parties more accessible, however, while most in North America and Europe would be able to attend for the price of a tank of fuel, this is not the case for players outside these regions. Financial aspects aside, when they say "leave nothing but footprints", does that mean go fly 10k km/mi to collect an icon? When you say "if people in those regions that don't typically have mega events were to work together and help to create and promote the intent to have one [...], that's also an option", I have to disagree. I'm sure the people at HQ or perhaps Project-GC could tell you that even if you pool the active players of several neighbouring countries together (Southeast Asia), you would not reach the minimum number of players required to have an event obtain Mega status. Can we cheat and create extra accounts to force things? I'm sure we could! Could we ask/beg visitors and outsiders to just drop "Will Attends" in support until we reach Mega status, knowing very well that only a fraction will actually attend? I'm sure we could! I'm also sure HQ would hold it against us if we play the system in such a way. Is it therefore not a better solution for HQ, that when they use the term "global" or "worldwide", and tout geocaching as such, that they actually try and accommodate everyone? Ideally, and this is also in the interest of the game, there should be a different approach to help players in remote countries. The bar to reach a Mega event is simply too high for places like South America, Africa and Asia. There is demand, we would like to engage more people and see the game grow, but nobody in their right mind would try to organise a Mega when the outcome, even with a year of prep and promotion, is already known to 99.9% negative. Yes, we're geocaching, but we're not playing te same game, purely because we lack numbers. The idea of awarding a Block Party event (or two) in countries far removed from a Mega, and where there is a clear demand, is not a bad one. From our point of view, it certainly beats the current setup. All it takes is a little good will at HQ to make the 25 year celebration truly global.

Sorry, but I fail to see why the Block Parties have to be tied to Mega or Giga Events. By doing so, HQ limits effectively exclude many players in remote locations (not the first time this happens). It is unfortunate that exactly those players who allow HQ to promote geocaching as a global activity would not be able to participate. The fact is, it is simply not possible for communities in certain places (entire continents even) to create a Mega Event. Could HQ not simply allow 1 or 2 players in countries from continents where a Mega is not likely to happen, but where there is interest and demand, to apply for Bock Party status for their event, so this cache-type would truly be available across the world, and not just in North America, Europa and Australia? I mean, we too pay our premiums, and we too would like to be able to celebrate 25 years of geocaching without having to cough up the funds for a long-haul.

I somehow overlooked that, as the title suggests a different issue. Many thanks. i guess this thread can be closed/removed.

On any trackable page, when clicking on the cache-name after the "placed it in" or "retrieved it from", it shows a "GC0" as link, and not the intended link of the cache. I could not get the cursor to display in the screenshot, but when hovering over (in this example) "Swamp Lion", you see in the left bottom corner, the link is GC0. Clicking it results in an error 404 page.

For the same reason you do not stick to logging one type only? Would you be happy if you eat the same meal every day? Sorry to say, but it almost sounds like you are against a level playing field? As was mentioned, some prefer one type over another, and that right there should be enough! To be honest, I feel a remark like that can only come from someone who sits neck deep in geocaching luxury and is spoiled for choice with no reason to complain about anything. Your remark about quality also suggests we do not have quality caches, somewhat arrogant and not appreciated! According to your profile, you are located in Germany (beautiful country btw), more specifically Karlsruhe, I could not help but notice that you have about as many caches in a radius of 8km as we have in entire Malaysia, an area of 330.800 km². I do not know how many active players Germany has, be we have about a dozen only, half of them expats (read: temps), please refer to the geocaching map for detail. Before you say, "place more caches" , another thing I have noticed is that I have created twice the amount caches than you have. In any case, you definitely get more out of the game as a seeker! Before the virtual rewards we had only 1 virtual, nothing else. When Virtual Rewards 1.0 came out, exactly 2 were dropped in Asia. Only 0.1% had landed outside North America and Europe! We had to remind HQ that the world is larger than that! They tried to correct the situation with Virtual Rewards 2.0, but yeah, you can't distribute caches when there are no players to distribute them to, right? If you want to check "geographic spread", feel free to check the distribution maps for virtuals and adventures! But the list goes on, no webcams, no mega/giga events, no reviewers or lackeys visiting with their pockets full of goodies, none of that. We do not run out for FTFs, we save the caches we have for the souvenir runs, and the demands for those are not always friendly to cachers in remote regions! You tackle me when I talk about cache diversity, and suggest to go for quality instead. About quality, we have spent years cleaning up the scene of zombie caches, and have brought up the quality of our game significantly! The number of caches has increased significantly too! We have also successfully lobbied for our country souvenir, we had articles published in newspapers, started social media, we handed out caches, promoted however and whenever possible! But... we're only a dozen strong, and we can only do so much! Any player has a limited reach, and can only realistically maintain a certain amount of caches. So why should we not ask HQ to look our way and ask for extra support? We are few, and virtual caches allow us to expand the game beyond our reach and personal limits. I doubt they will unlock the game to allow geocaching to grow unrestricted, but supplying virtual types to the few players who keep the game going outside North America and Europe, the same ones that allow HQ to keep touting the game as "global", that comes at no extra cost for HQ and should be a no-brainer. Mind you, because there are few cachers in Malaysia, most of the geocaching traffic, say 99%, comes from tourism, so we are not so much placing caches for ourselves, but for the many tourists (many Germans btw) that visit. Right now we suffer lockdown and restrictions, but while the game is going strong in Germany and is actually promoted as an outdoor activity, the game is flat on its behind in Malaysia since March 2020 and unfortunately it will be for some time to come. So excuse me if I suggest that HQ should invest more in the few players that currently keep the game going against all odds. As I so often say, we too are part of the game, and deserve more than the odd bone thrown, a bone for which we actually have to remind them (beg?) every so often. As NLBokkie mentioned a few posts ago, personal preferences are subjective, and of course quality caches are a must, but it would be good to be aware that not all countries bathe in geocaching luxury the way Germany does. And it is not because Germany has been served, and you have a distinct preference, that we have to settle for the standard cache types! If you look at the geocaching maps, any of them, it is clear that HQ should invest more virtuals in the countries that could use a leg up. As said, it cost them nothing, but it would make a huge difference on the map! If you know that there are cities with more virtuals and adventures than some continents, you really have to question "geographic distribution" as it is today. They love to refer to their own rules when it comes to "requests", but they seem to forget they also make the rules. In an effort to allow left behind countries a fair chance to catch up, why not handpick a few prominent cachers and supply them with 10-20 virtuals and a handful of adventures? More caches on the ground (virtuals tend to be reliable and have a longer lifespan), more chances to attract new players, ... do it right and everyone benefits! Cost for HQ to drop credits based on reviewer feedback is minimal, and requires good will more than anything else. Apologies for the long post, only because I care. Cheers!

Random distribution as was/is the case with virtuals or adventures would not work. There are however newer caches that use a webcam, and in a first effort, HQ should allow the cache type to be converted. Simple solutions often work best. I'm located in Asia, we do not have the type available here, so I would not mind creating a brand new set of webcam caches.

Geographic distribution is the biggest issue, if you drop 'em in a place where there are none, they will still be appreciated. As someone trying to build up the game in Malaysia, we struggle with cache diversity so of course I would suggest to drop your unwanted surplus in Malaysia.

Until recently, any request for an extra lab was answered with a standard reply that it wasn't possible within the current format. New guidelines, new oppertunities of course!

The distribution maps of virtuals and adventures show that the bulk of these dropped in Europe and North America. I live in Asia, and for us these are still rare cache types! We would love to place more and make up for the difference. It would be nice if HQ would provide the few players with more credits for adventures and virtuals so we have a chance to catch up. Also, virtuals being a grandfathered type, allow for these to be adopted to increase their survival rates! Assuming the distrubution of adventures will also come to end at some point, I would suggest the same for Adventures, allow these to be adopted by players who care! Yes please! Adventures are the most fake-logged type ever! The option to delete fake logs is an absolute must! Right now, no management is possibile and no reviewers involved either so a CO can only build and subsequently walk away. I rotate question and answers regularly to avoid answer being shared. Not ideal, but I remain hopeful.

Located in Asia, very few premium players here, and with geographic distribution in mind, I would love a third Adventure!

Personally I think they are making the same mistake with Adventures as they did with now grandfathered virtual types, and we know how that worked out. Adventure labs took a decade to get where they are today! And there are other experiments on which they have yet to pull the trigger too; AR, votes on logs, ... very telling, and sadly, as it stands, the game has lost more than it gained over the years. What we really could use is a new cache type... my vote goes toward a History Cache (with a time limited option to convert existing caches), but I'm sure there are other ideas out there. Likewise, with webcams slowly dying, it might be an idea to seek out caches that use a camera, and allow COs the option to have these converted into an official Webcam Cache to boost the numbers at least for the time being. My appologies, I digress. Long story short, I have a hard time to believe this is the best they can do with Adventure Labs, and I fail to see what it adds to the game in its current form.

There should not be a Virtual Reward 3.0 if it means they end up in the same places. Have you seen the global map? There are cities with more virtual caches than some continents! Distribution is completely screwed! I would say, look at the map, and provide additional credits to motivated players in regions where the game could seriously benefit from such support, but if you can't do that, let it be! The idea, to award more virtual caches to existing owners, somewhat following the Adventure Lab crediting system, might be an option. There is nothing that stops HQ from seeding areas outside Europe and North America if only to balance out the distribution! Hand pick players in remote regions, and give them a handful of virtuals. If no more are to be distributed, and Virtual Caches are to remain a limited edition reward, HQ should consider allowing virtual caches to be adopted to increase their survival rate.

Re: The QR code does not change unless the smart link changes. At this moment I do not see how you could adjust the smart link once set, an issue when you want to change topic or location. I too would like to know what happens if you click "delete" on the source adventure (not the test version), does it reset the adventure, adding the credit back to your account, or does it completely erase the adventure completely, wasting your credit? How does one archive an adventure, just by turning it off? Best answered by the developer. I would love to hear what's in the pipes because the app is fairly useless for a CO. Once up, an adventure cannot be managed, so currently you would build an adventure and don't look back. Edits, yes, but management (remove fake logs) no. Adventure Labs are currently easier to set up but less functional Wherigo's or a lesser form of Waymarking. Adventure Labs are also lesser Virtual Caches, but without credit, that is to say +1 yes, but it does not count toward favor points. Imho they should have ironed out the kinks before handing out thousands of these. Adventure Labs have been in the works for almost a decade, but I am still not sure what their purpose or goal is.

It would be good to know if or when they release these monthly batches, at the moment, the silence is deafening. Did they even hand them out in March and April? There is absolutely no communication on this whatsoever! I am disappointed that I have yet to receive one. As one of the very, very few protagonists of the game in South-east Asia, who has folded over backward to make the game happen, I would like to think that I have earned one. There is however still some time to go, so I hope that eventually one will land with me (yes, I did apply).

Keep it on-topic.

In a last attempt to get back on-topic, what could HQ do to make life a bit easier for cache owners?

Indeed, we're not blaming anyone! All we're saying is that we feel left out and the world is larger then the USA. If the game can be touted as global, that's only because of people like us! A narrow minded view does not help! Far more disappointing is that some here can't stick to the topic of the thread. Instead any idea is knocked down with the same excuse, and without so much as mentioning an alternative or idea of their own. The thread would not have gone "us against them" if some here would not have been allowed to hijacked and flood it with nonsense (forum guidelines 2, 6 anyone?). Forum members distributing poor advice such as lowering DT ratings are a detriment to the game and should imho not be tolerated here. It appears however that there's an established idiocracy that enjoys full support from above (that's not attacking an individual, just a general observation)! There is an attitude problem, and I agree, it does create a toxic environment, and I fail to see how it benefits the game, that's not helping, that's deliberately causing problems! Where are the moderators when you need them? Making edits, dumbing things down, and deleting posts, all done to accommodate the guidelines, and yet... some "contributors" remain unchecked ...if anything positive I could say about that, is that protecting the dim of wit certainly is a noble cause (not a personal attack, just a general observation)! In all, the amount of well aimed backlash witnessed here was rather unexpected and somewhat disheartening. Horribly sad that a simply thread as this one could not stay on topic because of supported trolling. Are you then surprised HQ does not care about what goes on here? The forum has been reduced to a platform to keep up appearances. Very sad for geocaching, and even more so for those who do try to provide constructive feedback (thank you), I'm sorry people have to deal with this nonsense, I truly am! I do understand that some do not like to read that the game is anything but perfect, but instead of hiding the truth and clamping down on any form of criticism, accept the facts for what they are and try to work toward a solution. Yes, of course not all suggestions are viable, but does that mean we should stop sharing? Don't tackle any idea with the same poor excuse, try to be a but more constructive, improve on it, or share your own!