Changed a D/T rating and cachers are mad at me

[+EmeEliKay]

I am not new to caching but I am super casual and don't know about all the side challenges and stats. I have looked at them before but I have never analyzed any of it or taken any of them to heart. I am just a nature hiker that likes to find surprises on my journey sometimes.

I placed my first puzzle cache and when I initially set the ratings, I did read the descriptions and select what I thought was appropriate at that time (2021). Since then, I have read more about ratings and have observed my logs saying things like, "this one took 10 minutes" so I started to wonder if I should adjust it. It was originally rated as 4/3 and currently has about 15 finds.

 

I looked into other caches rated similarly and also found caches like mine that were rated lower. Without any knowledge about grids and all that, I changed the rating to a 3/3. I have gotten messages from two people that are pretty upset about this. I started to look more into it and see on the forums that this is a pretty controversial topic. People are going on about rare D/T (I still can't find a list for rarity of caches) and filling the grid squares. Some going on to say that this is inconsiderate and wrong to do. I didn't do this knowingly about the stats part, I literally went into it from the perspective of future cachers and providing the most accurate information possible. I saw that my rating did cause a blank space on one of the complainers grid and the nearest one to them is twice as far as mine was. I am feeling guilty and sad for that cacher but I am also wanting to stand true to what I think is right for the future of the game (newcomers).

Can I please get some feedback? Should I change the cache rating back?

Edited June 19, 2023 by EmeEliKay

[+lee737]

I personally wouldn't change the DT of a cache outside of the 3x3 corner of the DT grid, especially outside of the 4x4 corner... And inside the grid things like 1/3 and 3/1 - I'd leave them too.... 

To be honest its your cache, and you can do what you want - but as you've found out people will definitely whine, most of us just under our breath, but some won't be backward in being forward about it!

[+Mermaid.Man]

Well I think that you did the right thing, it's certainly not a D4 puzzle.

The only point of the difficulty and terrain ratings is to give accurate information to future visitors to your cache.

[+PlantAKiss]

I've changed ratings on occasion due to changing terrain or having to move a stage. Ratings are about my cache, not someone's grid thingy. 

[+niraD]

6 hours ago, EmeEliKay said:

I literally went into it from the perspective of future cachers and providing the most accurate information possible.

Great! That is exactly the right attitude for a cache owner. Part of your responsibility as a cache owner is to keep the cache page as accurate as possible. IMHO, updating the cache page when your understanding of the situation changes is just as important as updating the cache page when the situation itself changes.

 

6 hours ago, EmeEliKay said:

Can I please get some feedback? Should I change the cache rating back?

Which rating do you think is more accurate? That is all that matters. Side games like filling the difficulty-terrain grid are irrelevant.

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, lee737 said:

I personally wouldn't change the DT of a cache outside of the 3x3 corner of the DT grid, especially outside of the 4x4 corner... And inside the grid things like 1/3 and 3/1 - I'd leave them too.... 

To be honest its your cache, and you can do what you want - but as you've found out people will definitely whine, most of us just under our breath, but some won't be backward in being forward about it!

 

Last year I changed the terrain rating of a 2/3.5 multi up to a 4 as several years of extreme rainfall since placing it had resulted in an explosion of undergrowth and a deterioration of what tracks there were. It'd had 15 finders at the time and I checked those stats I could see (some were basic members whose stats are invisible and one or two others had hidden theirs) to make sure I wasn't opening a hole in any of their grids. It's had three more finders since, one of whom said he agreed with my changed rating, and none of the previous finders have complained.

 

I personally have little interest in grids and such side games, but I know others who are passionate about them. Bear in mind that, for a puzzle cache, the D rating should be a combination of the difficulty of the puzzle and the concealment of the cache itself and, looking at the logs on the OP's cache, some have said it's a tricky hide so maybe putting both together could justify it being a 4. But if you still think it's really just a 3 then fine, changing it is the right thing to do.

 

Maybe you could make a peace offering by hiding another mystery cache nearby that really is a 4/3.

[+EmeEliKay]

31 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Maybe you could make a peace offering by hiding another mystery cache nearby that really is a 4/3.

This is actually a great compromise. I do have a micro that I have just had sitting in my car waiting for me to be inspired for a new hide. Maybe I can come up with a way to jazz it up to make it more worth the find but creating a new 4/3 may be a good idea. My area is kind of short on caches so thanks!!

[+arisoft]

When changing attributes you may post a maintenance log that explains the change and also works as a certificate for the prior finders about the attributes during their find.

[+thebruce0]

You did the right thing. If you think the listing is inaccurate, you can either correct it (simple fixes for accuracy) or republish it (major changes that have actually altered the experience).

As mentioned if you really want you could publish another cache with the old settings if you make changes.  But you can also remind people who rant about an accuracy fix that they can look up DT changes on Project-GC, and if it's that important on them for a challenge cache qualification, they can ask the challenge owner to accept their prior qualification on providing evidence your cache's DT has changed.

If they're just up in arms about their stats and it's not even about a challenge cache qualification, well bully for them. You're doing it for everyone else's experience in finding your cache, and that's your responsibility, not their numbers.

[hsiale]

18 hours ago, niraD said:

Side games like filling the difficulty-terrain grid are irrelevant.

That particular "side game" is relevant enough for HQ that you don't need an external statistics website to search for caches filling your grid, you can do it directly on the website (IIRC only if you are Premium member). So, contrary to FTF or collecting counties, filling the DT grid is somehow official.

[+lee737]

38 minutes ago, hsiale said:

That particular "side game" is relevant enough for HQ that you don't need an external statistics website to search for caches filling your grid, you can do it directly on the website (IIRC only if you are Premium member). So, contrary to FTF or collecting counties, filling the DT grid is somehow official.

I was going to post similar.... DT grid filling is gaining legitimacy - I only noted the little switch in the search filters last night, its very handy when searching a new area.....

[+MartyBartfast]

D/T grid filling is a thing that many cachers do so I wouldn't change the D/T after the first handfull of finds, and only then if there was significant feedback about the rating.

It happened to me once that a 6 year old cache had its T changed by 0.5 point which was irritating but I wouldn't dream of complaining to the CO or calling them out for it.

Having changed it you might as well leave it, and you could put out a new 4/3 cache.

 

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, hsiale said:

So, contrary to FTF or collecting counties, filling the DT grid is somehow official.

Great, so it's an official side game. By that measure, so is finding caches of different sizes. So is finding caches based on location (furthest from home, furthest north/south/east/west, etc.). 

 

But it's still a side game. The actual game is finding hidden containers using GPS coordinates and information in the cache description to direct your search.

 

And cache owners should still update the cache description when something about the cache changes, even if that might affect someone's side game. Or if the owner's understanding of the situation changes.

[+JL_HSTRE]

The puzzle in question looks like simple trivia, which explains why people are solving it quickly. If the puzzle is as straightforward as it looks and there's nothing particularly difficult about the hide I would only rate it D2.

 

For that much of a change, for cache that was significantly over/under rated at publication I would definitely make the change out of necessity. Try to catch it quicker than 15 Finds, but that will depend on getting meaningful logs from the Finders.

 

I generally wouldn't make a minor change on the upper end of the ratings, like D4 to D3.5, in consideration to the grid fillers. But that's not the kind of change here.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by JL_HSTRE

[+Calypso62]

On 6/20/2023 at 10:40 AM, PlantAKiss said:

Ratings are about my cache, not someone's grid thingy. 

 

I agree 100% with this statement. If something needs changing..... then change it!

[+Mudfrog]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:40 PM, PlantAKiss said:

I've changed ratings on occasion due to changing terrain or having to move a stage. Ratings are about my cache, not someone's grid thingy. 

 

12 hours ago, Calypso62 said:

 

I agree 100% with this statement. If something needs changing..... then change it!

 

Agree, cache pages sometimes need modifications made to them to become more accurate. I would not make a teensy little .5 change but anything 1 or over can sometimes be needed.

[+Deepdiggingmole]

Your cache - your choice 
I do look at my stats and I do  work towards completing the next grid etc and so the DT of a cache is important - however if it changes I accept that that is a decision that the CO has made based on review and feedback 

Project GC have a tool that gives a list of caches (that you have found) where the DT has changed and though this list is limited (as the tool was installed 7 years ago it can only search a limited period) it did show me that of the 28K finds that I have (probably less than that due to the limitatins) 1080 of these have had their DT changed - that would mean my DT grid has gone up and down and sideways during that period - but I suspect that it has all balanced out in the end so I have never worries about it. 
As a CO I too take feedback on board and have altered the DT on a couple of my caches accordingly 
The COs who I do find a little frustrating are those that change the DT with the seasons - I can understand their reason behind it - and though some might think they get one DT when its the winter and others have another DT when its summer - do they not realise it changes for everyone and when they archived that cache or when they do archive that cache whatever DT it ends up with EVERY finder ends up with that DT irrespective of when they found it !!!!