Why has there been no notification before a Major change was made to my Caches ?

[+Crazy_Caching_Lady]

I put time and effort in to maintaining my caches all of which I have decided to make Basic. To give people an idea of what our hobby is about. The y are of verieing difficulty and tarrain. I was confused to hear from a basic member who could only look for 3 of my caches. I thought after some had been vandalised she had not refreshed her phone then i logged in with out my membership and found I no longer can choose who can find my caches.

If for a time I cant afford  this luxury It is nice to know I can still play the game as long as the cache owner are happy to risk their work going missing.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Crazy_Caching_Lady

[+kunarion]

On 5/28/2023 at 11:07 AM, Crazy_Caching_Lady said:

I put time and effort in to maintaining my caches all of which I have decided to make Basic. To give people an idea of what our hobby is about. The y are of verieing difficulty and tarrain.

 

There weren't any changes, but there are whole threads about cachers unexpectedly seeing the incorrect number of caches on any given platform.

 

Higher Terrain and Difficulty are called "Advanced Caches", and they often require a little more caching experience.  They're greyed-out in the Basic presentation of The Official App because the idea is that new users get to go out and find a cache easily, and hunt the Advanced ones after they're gotten the hang of it.

 

But I also want people to find my caches, although the cache rating is what it is.  So I include info on how Basic members can view and hunt every cache available to them.  If they're game to hunt Advanced caches, they're also ready to do some manual work with Waypoints and Coordinates.  That's not uncommon for Advanced caches.

 

Look at my cache "Dale Carrot, Jr.", for a paragraph that I've put into some of my cache descriptions, on how to get to the next level, the Advanced Caches.

https://coord.info/GC5EQJD

 

On your easy Basic caches, also include links to other caches that you want people to try.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by kunarion

[RuideAlmeida]

Basically no major change as been done to yours or any other caches.

People using the homepage have access to every cache, like always... only when using the official free app, Basic Members will have some limitations (for good reasons, I would add).

[+Max and 99]

1 hour ago, Crazy_Caching_Lady said:

and found I no longer can choose who can find my caches.

You've never been able to choose who can find your caches. 

[RuideAlmeida]

1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

You've never been able to choose who can find your caches. 

 

Somehow, with PMOs... in a sense.

[+niraD]

3 minutes ago, RuideAlmeida said:

Somehow, with PMOs... in a sense.

Even then, you only restrict who can view the cache page, not who can find (or log) the cache.

[+GeoElmo6000]

20 hours ago, RuideAlmeida said:

Basically no major change as been done to yours or any other caches.

People using the homepage have access to every cache, like always... only when using the official free app, Basic Members will have some limitations (for good reasons, I would add).

 

I'm curious to know what the good reasons are.  While I love geocaching and support this hobby and geocaching.com, this is the one part of it that I disagree with.  I can see limiting app users to a certain easy level until they reach some number of finds, but the only reason I can think of to keep app users to this level forever is to force them to purchase premium membership.  I'm fine with different tiers of membership, and I've been a premium member for around 10 years, but I disagree with basic members not being able to access the same caches they can on the website.  So what are the good reasons?  I'm curious.

[RuideAlmeida]

18 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

So what are the good reasons?  I'm curious.

 

From the get go I can say vandalism, by choice or just ignorance...

While with low D/T caches the damage probably is not very high, but with more elaborated caches, certainly is (or would be)...

Edited May 29, 2023 by RuideAlmeida

[+kunarion]

4 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

I'm curious to know what the good reasons are.  While I love geocaching and support this hobby and geocaching.com, this is the one part of it that I disagree with.  I can see limiting app users to a certain easy level until they reach some number of finds, but the only reason I can think of to keep app users to this level forever is to force them to purchase premium membership.  I'm fine with different tiers of membership, and I've been a premium member for around 10 years, but I disagree with basic members not being able to access the same caches they can on the website.  So what are the good reasons?  I'm curious.

Every online gaming App has fees for more convenient play.  If people want a nice "App", it is suitable that they pay a little for such extra goodies beyond what everyone gets for free.  Yet everywhere in the App stores, you see these same complaints that "I play this all the time, I can't understand the reasons for fees".

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by kunarion

[+NanCycle]

2 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

Every online gaming App has fees for more convenient play.  If people want a nice "App", it is suitable that they pay a little for the App.  Yet everywhere in the App stores, you see these same complaints that "I play this all the time, I can't understand the reasons for fees".

There are several apps (non-gaming) that I use that have both free and pay versions.  I use the free features that I want and don't complain that I'd have to pay for more features.  If I really wanted them, I'd pay for them, but as it is I'm just happy that the free features are there.

[hsiale]

10 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

I'm curious to know what the good reasons are.

Greed. It is always greed. Probably HQ got some research showing that there is substantial amount of users who download the app and have no idea about the website existing, which led them to a brilliant idea of trying to get short term money out of them.

[+JL_HSTRE]

1 hour ago, hsiale said:

Probably HQ got some research showing that there is substantial amount of users who download the app and have no idea about the website existing

 

I'd expect it's fairly easy for Groundspeak to check how many accounts have never logged in on the website since last website login date is displayed on user profiles and thus already a tracked statement before the app existed.

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by JL_HSTRE

[+GeoElmo6000]

One of my issues is that with the app, there's no way to get to the basic member website level.  The app only allows very basic caches (traditionals T2/D2 and below) & events as one option, or full premium membership as the other option.  You can't unlock basic member privileges with the app.  So if I let my premium membership lapse, with almost 1500 finds and over 100 hidden caches, I can only go down to the very basic cache level.  I can't pay a one time fee or find a certain number of caches to unlock basic member level.  The people who only use the app incorrectly believe that they need premium membership to find non-premium level caches, which is wrong.  I'd like to see some way for app users to be able to work at basic member level with the app through finding a certain number of caches or paying a one time fee to unlock it.

Edited May 30, 2023 by GeoElmo6000

[+kunarion]

3 hours ago, hsiale said:

...Probably HQ got some research showing that there is substantial amount of users who download the app and have no idea about the website existing...

 

1 hour ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

I'd expect it's fairly easy for Groundspeak to check how many accounts have never logged in on the website since last website login date is displayed on user profiles and thus already a tracked statement before the app existed.

 

 

As it applies to the OP, it's essential if helping new users to discover how Geocaching works, to introduce them to all aspects of the web site.  Regardless of App limitations.  Because many caches require viewing on the website to display properly.  The desktop PC version.  Solve or find coords, type the coords into The App (or maybe they prefer a handheld GPS and no "Apps"), go find the cache for free.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by kunarion

[+barefootjeff]

12 minutes ago, kunarion said:

As it applies to the OP, it's essential if helping new users to discover how Geocaching works, to introduce them to all aspects of the web site.  Regardless of App limitations.  Because many caches require viewing on the website to display properly.  The desktop PC version.  Solve or find coords, type the coords into The App (or maybe they prefer a handheld GPS and no "Apps"), go find the cache for free.

 

 

Yes, but sadly so many people these days just want to use their phone for everything online. There are lots of more involved caches that really require a desktop or at least laptop view of the cache page in its entirety, including the background image which can be part of a puzzle or an extra hint to GZ (that's not visible anywhere in the app or even in the phone browser view of the cache page). Many of the never-visited-the-website newbies around here start off with premium membership before they even find their first cache, so they can see all caches in the app, but rarely do they venture beyond the easy roadside P&Gs. Then, when those become too boring and repetitive after a few weeks or months, they disappear. Multis, puzzles and ECs can be a poor experience if your only view of the cache page is through the app or a phone browser.

[+kunarion]

19 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Yes, but sadly so many people these days just want to use their phone for everything online. There are lots of more involved caches that really require a desktop or at least laptop view of the cache page in its entirety, including the background image which can be part of a puzzle or an extra hint to GZ (that's not visible anywhere in the app or even in the phone browser view of the cache page). Many of the never-visited-the-website newbies around here start off with premium membership before they even find their first cache, so they can see all caches in the app, but rarely do they venture beyond the easy roadside P&Gs. Then, when those become too boring and repetitive after a few weeks or months, they disappear. Multis, puzzles and ECs can be a poor experience if your only view of the cache page is through the app or a phone browser.

 

On my caches where I mention how to find all caches available to one's Basic Membership, I don't even get that detailed.  Once they arrive at the web site and see the additional caches, some caches will require the Desktop Browser.  Maybe they can take it from there.  But a lot of new users don't seem to read anything, they just click and Poki-Go Find Caches.  That's a way that a lot of people do Geocaching, and for them, it's good that the options are limited to caches that require no reading.  I can't make people read the cache description plus an additional paragraph of helpfulness.

 

But sure, that means that the more unusual caches get less love.  I create them anyway.

[+thebruce0]

3 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I'd like to see some way for app users to be able to work at basic member level with the app through finding a certain number of caches or paying a one time fee to unlock it.

 

See that's an idea I could get behind. It still puts the user behind a pay-wall (to reduce the 'vandalism' aspect) but if it's a one-time pay to "go advanced" as it were, without going Premium subscription, that gives HQ yet another way to get a little bit side $, but it would also benefit against the confusion of official-app-only beginner restrictions vs premium membership...

 

I wonder if anyone at HQ had thought of something like that?  The one-time pay would be only for the official app (since that's the app that restricts advanced-non-premium), so it would be an app flag, not a brand new geocaching user account flag.  Only app devs would need to worry about it... right?