City Names in Giant Letters (again)

[+Ariberna]

I don't know what you know and what you don't.

But there are rules that you don't mind being changed to the taste and preference of each one. And categories that you don't  much to Update.

 

As you said: Welcome to the new WM.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

From Max &99:  Would O-K-C be accepted for Oklahoma City?

 

Y-E-S!! - And I'll even come visit it

[+sernikk]

Quote

6. Naming requirement: Name of the city, State/Province/Country (whichever is appropriate). Example: Nerpio - Albacete, SPAIN

 

Just a thought. Wouldn't it be better to have the waymark named what the piece actually tells you? I can imagine a city can have multiple pieces like this and it's also easier to understand what the waymark is if the whole strucutre is e.g. "I love Madrid" - in that case having a WM called Madrid seems a bit odd for me

[+Ariberna]

Votation closed

Alea iacta est

[wayfrog]

Congratulations!

[+Ariberna]

Regardless, the category is...approved. Thank you Pepe for your enormous effort and to the people who considered that this category should move forward

 

[+bluesnote]

The inconstancy in reviewing thus far is very frustrating. Their category is vague and the reviewers have been contradicting on what passes and what does not. This should have been discussed prior for it being approved, hence why I initially "denied" the category despite it passing peer review. They still seem to not have a clear consensus as to what should be accepted and what does not. 

 

For example: I submitted a waymark for the Hollywood Sign in California. It was approved quickly. It was "visited" by another officer in the category, but before that same officer denied the waymark stating that Hollywood is not a city. In the same sense, another waymark was approved for the "Maldives" when that technically is a country and not a city. Yet that waymark is still there, approved.

 

Both examples were created for the same purpose. I feel the distinction between what is a city/neighborhood/country shouldn't matter as long as the purpose of the letters are the same. If so, we would have a ton of crossing categories in the abstract or silhouette categories. What does everyone else think?

[+bluesnote]

1 minute ago, Max and 99 said:

Hollywood used to be a city!

Nothing in the current category description says that former cities are not allowed. The sign is still owned and operated by the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce.

[+Max and 99]

Of the 14 waymarks reviewed:

 

Lobios: Approved, Approved

Amarante: Approved, Approved

Maldives: Approved, Approved, Approved, Approved, Declined

Kocham Warszawe: Approved, Approved

Valencia: Approved, Declined, Approved, Declined, Declined, Approved

Ourense: Approved

Cudillero: Approved

OKC: Approved

Barcelona: Approved

Hollywood: Approved, Declined, Declined, Declined, Declined

Andorralavella: Approved

PS loves you: Approved

LOVE: Declined

UCR Riverside: Declined, Declined, Declined, Declined

 

 

What really surprises me is how many of those reviews are duplicates of someone else reviewing. I'm wondering if the officers don't notice that someone has already reviewed it.

[+Max and 99]

21 minutes ago, bluesnote said:

Nothing in the current category description says that former cities are not allowed. The sign is still owned and operated by the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce.

I stated that Hollywood used to be a city, in support of you. Just in case it wasn't clear.

[+bluesnote]

32 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I stated that Hollywood used to be a city, in support of you. Just in case it wasn't clear.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. Just frustrating when the category requirements are vague and then the officers decide to go off of what they think, and not what is written in the category requirements. I have asked some of the officers to update the requirements to be less confusing.

[+BeayPepe]

We have not had the opportunity to do it before, but we want to thank all of you!

The first thing we want to do is to thank all of you who, in some way, have contributed to the approval of the category. Both those who voted to approve it and those who didn't, because your comments helped us to learn more about this strange community.

Although we are very happy that the category was approved, we regret very much that we created it. Our intention was to bring something to the game, but, since it has been approved, all we see are fights of little kids.

And we are talking about everyone, from the one who submits a category that knows will not be approved because it does not contain the name of a city, to the officials who, in their eagerness to approve things, leave the descriptions unread. But, of course, those who are most to blame for all this, are the leaders of the group, since we see that we have not known how to manage all this as it should be. We thought this was a game and we see that there are people who seem to have their lives in it....

We apologize if it has not been clear at some point what is a city and what is not, or what is a word and what is not, or what is a meter high.

Right now, you all see that the description was poor, but nobody said anything when it was proposed in this thread. If you read the posts, you can see that all the indications we were given, were incorporated into the description. Now it seems that they were not enough.

You guys take away anyone's desire to do new things for the game.

We reiterate our thanks to all of you.

[+Wizard_Speed_Time]

Hi everyone.

First of all I would like to say Thank you for all your support and understanding. You have a lot of experience in Waymarking as rewievers and we respect it a lot. 
I feel like I will not stop learning on you all.

 

Moreover that BeayPepe wrote, I would like to explain why Hollywood was declined in this category. Although I congrated bluesnote for this WM and I think that that would have been a great WM, I have been reading about Hollywood situtation.

 

It's true that it was a city for 7 years (from 1903 to 1910). But the Hollywood sign was built in 1923. In that moment Hollywood was part of Los Angeles as a neighborhood.

 

Also we had to decline Las malvinas since this category doesn't include neighborhood, countries, etc. Just sculptures created to honor a city.

 

Again very sorried that this magnific sign cannot be part of this category.

[+Max and 99]

How long did this discussion last before the category was sent to peer review? 2 days?

1 hour ago, BeayPepe said:

Right now, you all see that the description was poor, but nobody said anything when it was proposed in this thread.

 

[+Max and 99]

I think this is a really fun, global category. A great idea! I hope the officers will iron out the confusion/issues and continue with what will surely be a popular category that waymarkers will seek out while traveling.

[Becktracker]

What we see now, is the getting to used hiccups in the beginning of a new category. Everybody jumps with what they have at the unsuspecting officers. I've seen it before, with WWI sites and puzzles in the real world, where a lot of the first submissions (including mine) were declined. It is now somewhat aggravated because of the relative lack of experience of the officers. I'm sure that in time these problems will be ironed out. If there is mutual respects for the officers and submitters, I'm sure everything will work out.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

15 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I think this is a really fun, global category. A great idea! I hope the officers will iron out the confusion/issues and continue with what will surely be a popular category that waymarkers will seek out while traveling.

 

We're working on it. I agree that this is a fun category, and the new-to-Waymarking officers are drinking from a firehose right now.  Everybody who is an officer in the category is dedicated to its success.  

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

20 hours ago, BeayPepe said:

. . . 

The first thing we want to do is to thank all of you who, in some way, have contributed to the approval of the category. Both those who voted to approve it and those who didn't, because your comments helped us to learn more about this strange community.

 

Yes, Waymarking is very different from geocaching. But this is a fun category, and when the wrinkles get ironed out, it will be more fun to be an officer.

 

20 hours ago, BeayPepe said:

Although we are very happy that the category was approved, we regret very much that we created it. Our intention was to bring something to the game, but, since it has been approved, all we see are fights of little kids.

And we are talking about everyone, from the one who submits a category that knows will not be approved because it does not contain the name of a city, to the officials who, in their eagerness to approve things, leave the descriptions unread. But, of course, those who are most to blame for all this, are the leaders of the group, since we see that we have not known how to manage all this as it should be. We thought this was a game and we see that there are people who seem to have their lives in it....

 

It's very sad for me that you regret creating this category.  I wouldn't have voted for it and would't be an officer if I didn't believe in it, and in its potential to be fun and interesting.

It IS true that waymarkers enjoy the race of posting waymarks and getting that new icon. Some are much more competitive in this arena than others. Some are more understanding and less belligerent than others.  You see the whole spectrum of human behavior in Waymarking - the good and the not so good - in ways that you don't in geocaching.

 

20 hours ago, BeayPepe said:

We apologize if it has not been clear at some point what is a city and what is not, or what is a word and what is not, or what is a meter high.

Right now, you all see that the description was poor, but nobody said anything when it was proposed in this thread. If you read the posts, you can see that all the indications we were given, were incorporated into the description. Now it seems that they were not enough.

 

This is why Groundspeak gave officers the ability to edit the category descriptions  

 

No category description, no matter how meticulously created, survives first contact with the Waymarking community. Think of it as de-bugging. This community will find every loophole, every thing left vague, and will try and exploit it. 

 

Our job as officers is to tweak guidelines to make sure the category accepts what the category creator's vision was -- and we are going through that painful process right now.  It will be over once new more specific guidelines are created.

 

20 hours ago, BeayPepe said:

You guys take away anyone's desire to do new things for the game.

 

 

As sad as your regret over creating the category was, this statement is what really broke my heart. The vast Vast VAST majority of waymarkers are wonderful, kind, optimistic, adventurous, considerate, polite, fun and reasonable people.  Once you get to know more of us, you will see that this is true. 

 

Please do not use this admittedly bumpy start to form an opinion about the entire Waymarking community.

 

New categories are always chaotic in the beginning, even when mulled over in the forums for weeks.  This too shall pass. I have faith!

 

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:06 AM, Becktracker said:

What we see now, is the getting to used hiccups in the beginning of a new category. Everybody jumps with what they have at the unsuspecting officers.

. . .

 

If there is mutual respects for the officers and submitters, I'm sure everything will work out.

 

 

THIS ^^^ 100%!! 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Benchmark Blasterz
additional thought

[+Ariberna]

Thanks Benchmark Blastezr for your words. Pepe deserves those words and more.

The "hispano clan" needs people as some nice reviewers who have helped make all of this possible and help keep it going.

We are working in the cathegory with the aim to be better and clarify more.

Thanks.

[+BeayPepe]

It seems that we no longer see everything so black. The truth is that we observe that the vast majority of this community are nice people. The bad thing is that although there are a thousand nice people, the two who are not, make much more noise than the other thousand. Sometimes this is frustrating and they discourage the others from doing anything.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

2 hours ago, BeayPepe said:

It seems that we no longer see everything so black. The truth is that we observe that the vast majority of this community are nice people. The bad thing is that although there are a thousand nice people, the two who are not, make much more noise than the other thousand. Sometimes this is frustrating and they discourage the others from doing anything.

 

Free advice:  Focus on your positive people, and let others howl into the wind.   . Now Let's have fun today finding new things to waymark!

Edited March 6, 2023 by Benchmark Blasterz

[+Max and 99]

If anyone has plans to waymark the Tijuana Mexico giant letters, I have a favor to ask and a possible collaboration.

[+173Carver]

A few months late to this... glad it resolved the way it did.

 

Stumbled upon this category scrolling to find another one I was posting for and I'm looking forward to adding to it. Lincoln, NE has a great big name tag!

Found this forum looking for more information on how a new category can be created.

 

Happy Waymarking!