New geocacher logging 25+ finds online first day of caching (without help) but most physical logs not signed...

[+Geoboater]

A new geocacher (started account yesterday) has logged finds online for over 10 of my geocaches but has signed physical logs on less than 30% of those.  I discovered this when doing maintenance on one they claimed and noticed no sig. on the log so I decided to check a few others.  I would normally just delete thier logs but it may be an honest mistake made by a new player (?).  I don't want them to get upset and drop out of the activity, but something needs to be done.

Any thoughts on best way to handle this?

[+Max and 99]

11 minutes ago, Geoboater said:

A new geocacher (started account yesterday) has logged finds online for over 10 of my geocaches but has signed physical logs on less than 30% of those.  I discovered this when doing maintenance on one they claimed and noticed no sig. on the log so I decided to check a few others.  I would normally just delete thier logs but it may be an honest mistake made by a new player (?).  I don't want them to get upset and drop out of the activity, but something needs to be done.

Any thoughts on best way to handle this?

I would contact them and ask. If they can be contacted!

Edited March 12, 2022 by Max and 99

[+Geoboater]

I will attempt to contact them now. 

I noticed most of their logs were just one word (or acronym?) that I don't understand.  However, another "found it" they posted just today states "Did not see but we were there ".  Obviously I need to explain to them what qualifies as a "find".

[+kunarion]

15 minutes ago, Geoboater said:

A new geocacher (started account yesterday) has logged finds online for over 10 of my geocaches but has signed physical logs on less than 30% of those.

 

Is it possible it's a family member who found caches as a child and is now logging on a new account?  It's unusual for an armchair cacher to sign some of the physical logs.

[+kunarion]

Just now, Geoboater said:

another "found it" they posted just today states "Did not see but we were there ".

 

That happens when some online log methods default to "Found".  Weird to imply they didn't sign the log sheet yet logging it Found.  I've done it sometimes, but generally catch the error and switch it to "DNF" before submitting it.

[+Max and 99]

32 minutes ago, Geoboater said:

"Did not see but we were there ".  Obviously I need to explain to them what qualifies as a "find".

I'd say so!

[+Geoboater]

I sent the message below to them, also addressing some other issues I noticed after they visited my caches:

 

    I realize you are a new geocacher so before your log any more caches, I feel you could benefit from the information below:

 

   1) A cache should not be logged online as a "found" if you didn't sign the physical log in the cache.  Just seeing or touching the container is not enough; you must sign the physical log with your registered geocaching name.  A geocache owner is authorized to delete your online log if they find no cooresponding signature for that date on the log sheet.  *Note that more than half of my caches you claim as "found" have no entry on the physical log.*

   2) Always replace the geocache exactly as found.  If you move it then the cache owner and subsequent geocachers may not be able to find it.  Moving the container could also invalidate any hints provided.

   3) Read the description for the cache.  It often will provide information on how to open a tricky container (avoid brute force) and other useful information about the geocache or the vicinity.

   4) Always bring a pen or pencil when geocaching.  Micros and most small containers usually do not include a writing implement; remember, no signature=no find.

   5) Trackables are NOT trade items.  A trackable will have a code somewhere on it and the words "trackable on geocaching.com".  These could be dog tags attached (or not) to an item, similar stamped metal tags, or geocoins (generally about the size of a silver dollar).  The tracking information on geocoins will be found either on the coin face or stamped along the outer edge.
Only take one of those items if you plan to move it to another cache within a couple weeks, and be sure to log your retrieval and drop-off activities on the trackable's page using its tracking number.  Posting the trackable's activity keeps the geocache trackable inventory accurate and allows the owner or other players to watch its movement.

6) Pathtags, about the size of a quarter, are for you to keep if you wish.  They can be logged on the pathtag website (on the reverse of the tag) but it is not a requirement.

[+Max and 99]

One of the two has a last log-in date (the other "never visited". Did you contact the one with a last log-in date?

 

You gave them helpful information.

[+Geoboater]

Quote

One of the two has a last log-in date (the other "never visited". Did you contact the one with a last log-in date?

 

Yes, that's the geocacher I contacted.  The other I believe is a family member.

The response I received was positive, and the individual indicated they will sign all logs going forward.  I am giving him the benefit of a doubt and will not delete his logs.

 

[+Max and 99]

2 minutes ago, Geoboater said:

 

Yes, that's the geocacher I contacted.  The other I believe is a family member.

The response I received was positive, and the individual indicated they will sign all logs going forward.  I am giving him the benefit of a doubt and will not delete his logs.

 

Nicely done!

[+GeoElmo6000]

1 hour ago, kunarion said:

 

That happens when some online log methods default to "Found".  Weird to imply they didn't sign the log sheet yet logging it Found.  I've done it sometimes, but generally catch the error and switch it to "DNF" before submitting it.

 

It was probably an app user who didn't verify their account.  I hear they're quite shady.  

[+GeoElmo6000]

30 minutes ago, Geoboater said:

 

Yes, that's the geocacher I contacted.  The other I believe is a family member.

The response I received was positive, and the individual indicated they will sign all logs going forward.  I am giving him the benefit of a doubt and will not delete his logs.

 

 

That's a great resolution to the story, thank you for sharing it!  I've had several new cachers find some of my park & grab traditional caches and some did not sign the logs.  In that case I'll send them a message that is encouraging, welcoming them to the game and explaining that logs need to be signed.  I'll explain that technically the log needs to be signed for it to count as a find, and that cache owners do audit logs and may delete their online log if a log sheet signature is missing.  Your list is really comprehensive!

 

I stopped caring about auditing cache logs when I got a super nasty response to a message about a missing signature, which included words I don't use nor would I ever put in writing!  It's just a game and I honestly don't care to verify everyone's signatures. 

[+MidnightBarbecue]

Not to open a new worm can, but I never delete logs without physical signatures. It really doesn't matter to me,  plenty of people live much more serious 'untruths'.

 

On the other hand, over the years I've signed quite a few paper logs and never bothered (forgot) to log online, or visited virtuals and took the photo or found questions to answers but never logged those either.

 

I guess I'm not too worried about stats, I'm just out adventuring.

[+ChriBli]

I just went through a logstrip that I recently replaced because it was full. Online there were 71 PM logs and one basic. All of them were also on the log strip except for one that provided a log photo instead (no pen I guess). There were also two additional logs on the strip, probably from people who don't log online at all because I don't recognize the nicks. The single basic member has several thousand finds, so hardly a newbie. I'm happy I don't have to consider deleting any logs. I would probably not do that anyway.

[+Jayeffel]

The only time I remember deleting any logs was recently. There was a found log by a cacher one day, then four DNF logs on another day for that same cache, the same cacher. 
I checked cache be sure it was still in place and checked the log inside. There was no signature by that user as found. 

 

At first I thought there were two other cachers logging finds with no names on the log but they signed on the back to the log, skipping a half empty front side. One of them was a mark with no date.

 

I checked and the first cacher with a find then four DNF is a newbie. I contacted that cacher and asked where it was found, and asked why the added DNFs if it was found. I figured that cacher did what I have at times simply missed marking it as DNF. I explained that signing the physical log makes it a find, the website.log only keeps track of finds etc.

 

I also mentioned that logs that were not signed may be deleted by the cache owner if there is no indication of a find. After a few weeks with no response from the cacher I did delete the Find log and all but one of the DNF log, no info lost.

 

The cacher I mentioned that apparently signed the log with a mark that I could not match with a website log cacher responded by letting me know that he sometimes makes that mark which saves as an alternative to his regular signature. 

 

I see some cachers are very adamant about physical and website log matching and deletion is used often. Others do not use that approach.

 

I guess that if I look at such entries and see a new cacher I will probably write and see if I can help them -- seldom get a response though. But when a cacher with a lot of caches leaves an apparent unsigned log and claims a find I may do otherwise.

 

I guess  the "right verses wrong " method meets and conflicts with  the "get it done somehow" method.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the only 

[+barefootjeff]

13 minutes ago, tbbiker said:

What if you put out a really hard difficult 5 cache that even the most seasoned of cachers are having a time with and along comes someone with just a few finds to their name and posts a found it log.  You go out to check the physical log and no surprise here, that person didn't sign it.  Would you delete his log then or let that "find" stand?

 

I had something much like that happen a couple of years ago. A never-visited-the-website newbie with a premium membership from the get-go decided to take on a terrain 4 multi of mine for her first cache (it was during the COVID lockdown so I guess it was close to home). Her log strongly suggested that she'd only gotten as far as the first waypoint at the listed coordinates, since she reckoned she'd sprained her ankle getting to that and there'd be no way she could have done the T4 climb up to the final and back with a sprained ankle. Once the lockdown ended, I went and checked the logbook and, sure enough, no signature anywhere in it, so I sent her a message querying it and, after no response, a follow-up email, but with no response to that either I reluctantly deleted her log. I thought it would be unfair to the others who'd done that steep climb to let it stand.

 

The other times I've deleted logs were with my EarthCache when people logged finds but never sent me any answers and ignored my follow-up messages and emails.

[+GeoElmo6000]

9 hours ago, tbbiker said:

What if you put out a really hard difficult 5 cache that even the most seasoned of cachers are having a time with and along comes someone with just a few finds to their name and posts a found it log.  You go out to check the physical log and no surprise here, that person didn't sign it.  Would you delete his log then or let that "find" stand?

 

I've learned to hide caches that geocachers enjoy finding, not D5 caches that even seasoned geocachers would have trouble with.  I used to create difficult "stump the cacher" mystery caches and people just ignored them, meaning it wasn't enjoyable for the cachers or me the owner.  So, I wouldn't put myself in the situation you describe.

 

As I mentioned above, I stopped caring about auditing cache logs when I got a super nasty response to a message about a missing signature, which included words I don't use nor would I ever put in writing!  It's just a game and I honestly don't care to verify everyone's signatures. 

[+DARKSIDEDAN]

Contact the new player and explain that a mistake has been made. Give them understanding and Instruction on how to play the game. Tell them how to fix the mistake. If that fails, then delete the logs.

[+geodarts]

I’ve had to explain the logging requirement for earthcaches.  However,  except for a couple of instances where people have swept through and armchaired multiple caches, I don’t monitor physical caches in the same way.

<<< “You must sign the physical log with your registered geocaching name” >>>

 

The guidelines state that the cache can be logged once you “have signed the logbook” and I would not add anything beyond that.
 

My handwriting has always been nearly illegible. One time, the next to find posted that the signature above his was off, but the CO was a friend who knew my signature well.  Other than that no one has questioned that I rarely - and almost never now - use my full geocaching name.  Sometimes I have used my given name.  Occasionally, I use a leaf to make a mark that may or may no be as legible as my handwriting.  

I also have a problem with dates - so I would not rely on that to confirm a find.  At one point getting the year right was difficult.  

Edited April 2, 2022 by geodarts