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ScribblyBear

Quick question on cache sizes

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I'm starting to put together and place a few caches of my own. One thing I'm not completely sure of is the proper size rating for a peanut butter jar sized container. Would it be considered small or regular?

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19 minutes ago, ScribblyBear said:

I'm starting to put together and place a few caches of my own. One thing I'm not completely sure of is the proper size rating for a peanut butter jar sized container. Would it be considered small or regular?

That depends on the peanut butter jar. I've seen some that would be small. I've seen some that would be regular.

 

From the Help Center article Cache container sizes:

Quote

Micro (XS)

Micro containers are less than 100 milliliters. They’re about the size of a film canister, or smaller. They can hold a tiny logbook or log sheet. If a micro cache is less than 10 milliliters, it’s often called a nano cache.

Small (S)

Small containers are 100 milliliters to 1 liter. They’re about the size of an apple. They can hold a small logbook and trade items.

Regular (M)

Regular containers are 1 to 20 liters. They’re about the size of a shoebox. Many of these caches are ammo cans.

Large (L)

Large containers are more than 20 liters. They're larger than a shoebox. Buckets, bins, or even railroad freight cars can be large containers.

Other (--)

Some containers just don't fit into size categories, like a magnetic sheet with a logbook attached. See the cache description for more information.

 

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15 hours ago, ScribblyBear said:

I'm starting to put together and place a few caches of my own. One thing I'm not completely sure of is the proper size rating for a peanut butter jar sized container. Would it be considered small or regular?

 

I'd consider it small.     :)

I don't care for this "liter" nonsense, and feel the container's shape matters more. 

 - What can you really put in a gallon (3.78 liters...) milk jug ?  ;)

 

We really wish the site would  show multiple pictures of actual caches (they have a store...) with cache sizes, so people who don't "get it" would stop calling vitamin bottles small.  

 

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49 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I'd consider it small.     :)

Depending on the size of the peanut butter jar, I might agree. :D

 

A 2-pound jar of peanut butter comes in at just under a quart/litre, and is about the largest peanut butter jar that I would consider a small cache. A 2.5-pound jar of peanut butter comes in at just over a quart/litre, and is about the smallest peanut butter jar that I would consider a regular cache. And of course, peanut butter jars come in sizes smaller than 2 pounds and larger than 2.5 pounds.

 

57 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I don't care for this "liter" nonsense, and feel the container's shape matters more. 

If they have the same volume, then I don't see much difference between a rectangular Lock&Lock container or a cylindrical peanut butter jar.

 

1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

 - What can you really put in a gallon (3.78 liters...) milk jug ?  ;)

Sure, when you take it to an extreme, it starts to break down. But I think "other" might be appropriate here, not "small". To me, it seems similar to using a gallon zipper bag for a flat cache (say, behind a magnetic sign), where the 1-gallon capacity of the bag is irrelevant. Or perhaps similar to using a 5-gallon jug filled with dozens of film canisters (or other micro-size containers) that can fit through the neck one at a time.

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1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

We really wish the site would  show multiple pictures of actual caches (they have a store...) with cache sizes

This would be very useful. A single example (as shown in the photo they currently use) doesn't convey the range that each size covers.

 

And it would also be helpful if the store avoided (for example) using the word "Large" to describe a 2-litre Pelican case. That's a regular size cache, not a large size cache, and using the word "Large" in its description (even if it is the largest Pelican case they sell) can be confusing.

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18 minutes ago, niraD said:

Sure, when you take it to an extreme, it starts to break down. But I think "other" might be appropriate here, not "small". To me, it seems similar to using a gallon zipper bag for a flat cache (say, behind a magnetic sign), where the 1-gallon capacity of the bag is irrelevant. Or perhaps similar to using a 5-gallon jug filled with dozens of film canisters (or other micro-size containers) that can fit through the neck one at a time.

 

I just looked at the galleries of a few cachers who've emailed the last couple days.   :)

All have at least one plastic soda bottle, or small-neck pill bottle found within the last year.  Mostly (not all...) placed by new folks.

I believe it has to do with  messaging that caches are sized by what many consider water volume, as LOne.R's post shows.

Edited by cerberus1

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9 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I just looked at the galleries of a few cachers who've emailed the last couple days.   :)

All have at least one plastic soda bottle, or small-neck pill bottle found within the last year.  Mostly (not all...) placed by new folks.

I believe it has to do with  messaging that caches are sized by what many consider water volume, as LOne.R's post shows.

I think the issue with narrow necks is separate from the size and shape issue. And I know I've seen at least one article on choosing good geocache containers that recommends against containers with narrow necks, but I couldn't find that advice on Groundspeak's site.

 

But a 2-litre soda bottle is a just a bad geocache container. Arguing that it isn't a regular size container seems silly to me. Calling it a small or a micro instead of a regular doesn't make it a good geocache container.

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33 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I believe it has to do with  messaging that caches are sized by what many consider water volume, as LOne.R's post shows.

 

Peanut butter jars don't have narrow necks. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, niraD said:

I think the issue with narrow necks is separate from the size and shape issue. And I know I've seen at least one article on choosing good geocache containers that recommends against containers with narrow necks, but I couldn't find that advice on Groundspeak's site.

 

But a 2-litre soda bottle is a just a bad geocache container. Arguing that it isn't a regular size container seems silly to me. Calling it a small or a micro instead of a regular doesn't make it a good geocache container.

 

I wasn't speaking "size",  but simply your mention of "taking it to extremes".  Didn't mention two liter either.

 - Next time I'll only capture what's pertinent.   :)

I found an entire series of "small" water bottles once.  Long-time member too

Simply saying it seems some folks (I did say mostly new...) see "liters",  and they're looking around the house for something that matches whatever part of a "liter" is on the label.    :D

 

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44 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I wasn't speaking "size",  but simply your mention of "taking it to extremes".  Didn't mention two liter either.

It doesn't matter whether it's a 2 litre bottle that is listed as a regular or a 12 ounce bottle that is listed as a small. Arguing that it should be listed as a micro because the neck is so narrow still seems silly to me. The problem is that it's a bad geocache container, not that it is listed as the wrong size.

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24 minutes ago, niraD said:

The problem is that it's a bad geocache container, not that it is listed as the wrong size.

 

I agree with that statement. The guidelines are clear about the sizes and we shouldn't make things up.

What we should do, is choosing the right containers for geocaching.

 

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On 12/6/2020 at 6:15 PM, niraD said:

It doesn't matter whether it's a 2 litre bottle that is listed as a regular or a 12 ounce bottle that is listed as a small. Arguing that it should be listed as a micro because the neck is so narrow still seems silly to me. The problem is that it's a bad geocache container, not that it is listed as the wrong size.

So that's a no on peanut butter jars for a cache container?

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I've used peanut butter jars. And I've seen many peanut butter jars used as cache containers. They all leak.

But...

Not if you put a gasket inside the lid. 

Cut out a circle of fun foam (or rubber)  to fit snuggly inside the lid. 

 

IMG_9871.jpg.06a9a736926f6652de18e49f324f5a86.jpgIMG_9872.jpg.74ae6374b5458b57fda1169cf26252ee.jpgIMG_9875.jpg.400d280a40dca38879a5f2f4e104803c.jpgIMG_9878.jpg.642a11801f0724640c2cc4ee49995e56.jpg

Edited by L0ne.R
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2 hours ago, ScribblyBear said:
On 12/6/2020 at 7:15 PM, niraD said:

It doesn't matter whether it's a 2 litre bottle that is listed as a regular or a 12 ounce bottle that is listed as a small. Arguing that it should be listed as a micro because the neck is so narrow still seems silly to me. The problem is that it's a bad geocache container, not that it is listed as the wrong size.

So that's a no on peanut butter jars for a cache container?

Have you ever seen a peanut butter jar with a narrow neck like a soda bottle? I haven't.

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10 hours ago, niraD said:

Have you ever seen a peanut butter jar with a narrow neck like a soda bottle? I haven't.

I haven't, just being a bit of a smart-a**

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11 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

I've used peanut butter jars. And I've seen many peanut butter jars used as cache containers. They all leak.

But...

Not if you put a gasket inside the lid. 

Cut out a circle of fun foam (or rubber)  to fit snuggly inside the lid. 

 

IMG_9871.jpg.06a9a736926f6652de18e49f324f5a86.jpgIMG_9872.jpg.74ae6374b5458b57fda1169cf26252ee.jpgIMG_9875.jpg.400d280a40dca38879a5f2f4e104803c.jpgIMG_9878.jpg.642a11801f0724640c2cc4ee49995e56.jpg

I've found a few brand new ammo placed upside down where water was still able to make it past the gasket into the can.

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1 hour ago, ScribblyBear said:

I've found a few brand new ammo placed upside down where water was still able to make it past the gasket into the can.

 

Sounds like you arguing that a gasket can sometimes fail and therefore not worth having in a recycled jar, or ammo can. 

 

Maybe you are warning people not to place caches upside down. I agree, I've seen water mishaps because a cache container was placed upside down. 

Edited by L0ne.R
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There are better containers out there but peanut butter jars certainly aren't the worst. Depending on how and where they're hidden and how maintenance oriented its owner is,, they can make for a good cache. 

 

As far as size, the 18 oz size I have in the cupboard now (doesn't give liquid measurement) would definitely be labeled as small. Imo, a peanut butter jar weighing under 48 oz would fall into the small category. It would have to be one of those 4 lb plus peanut butter jars before I'd rate it as regular.

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3 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

Sounds like you arguing that a gasket can sometimes fail and therefore not worth having in a recycled jar, or ammo can. 

 

Maybe you are warning people not to place caches upside down. I agree, I've seen water mishaps because a cache container was placed upside down. 

Partially? Just sayin that water can sometimes find a way.

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3 minutes ago, ScribblyBear said:

Partially? Just sayin that water can sometimes find a way.

 

OK. Sounds like you are opting out of putting a gasket in the peanut butter jar lid. 

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39 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

 

OK. Sounds like you are opting out of putting a gasket in the peanut butter jar lid. 

I'm still thinking of doing it. I may have something that will work well.

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7 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

As far as size, the 18 oz size I have in the cupboard now (doesn't give liquid measurement) would definitely be labeled as small. Imo, a peanut butter jar weighing under 48 oz would fall into the small category. It would have to be one of those 4 lb plus peanut butter jars before I'd rate it as regular.

Some brands of peanut butter have 48oz jars (3#). Some brands have 40oz jars (2.5#). Both are more than 1 litre, which makes them a regular according to the Help Center definition: "Regular containers are 1 to 20 liters."

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I've hidden a number of off-topic posts from view.  Please keep in mind that this is the "Getting Started" forum, where we help newcomers with basic questions about geocaching.  More latitude can be given in the "Geocaching Topics" forum for side conversations.  And, there is a whole forum called "Off Topic."  Thanks!

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On 12/6/2020 at 4:01 AM, ScribblyBear said:

I'm starting to put together and place a few caches of my own. One thing I'm not completely sure of is the proper size rating for a peanut butter jar sized container. Would it be considered small or regular?

 

Hello ScribblyBear,

 

I just want to add one thing why I don't think you should use a jar as geocache container if there was food inside before: animals might like your cache more than you like them to like it. ;-)

Even if you wash the jar thoroughly the smell of the food might still attract animals. And if they start nibbling the container will be destroyed after a short period of time.

 

I recommend to use lock and lock containers instead. In Germany we pay about 3 euro (which should be 3 to 4 dollars) for a good and solid container. And whenever you consider the time spent for hiding a good cache (several hours!) this hand ful of dollars isn't too bad, is it?

 

And one very subjective point:

If I find a jar that was used for something else (like yours) I know that it is some kind of waste which is now used as a geocache. If the owner bought or hides a handmade nice container I always like the cache much more. I don't know how to translate that but in German I would say "das macht mehr her" (sorry ;-)) than a "waste container".

 

Best wishes

Jochen

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On 12/10/2020 at 6:13 PM, niraD said:

Some brands of peanut butter have 48oz jars (3#). Some brands have 40oz jars (2.5#). Both are more than 1 litre, which makes them a regular according to the Help Center definition: "Regular containers are 1 to 20 liters."

 

A bit late, I somehow missed coming back to this thread. 

 

Yes, I do realize this. My reason for saying small is because of the jar's small opening. Its capacity might be ok but there is a limit on what items can be stuffed through the opening. Some might say that a 2 liter soda bottle qualifies but, imo, it would be misleading to classify it regular in size. 

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11 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

My reason for saying small is because of the jar's small opening. Its capacity might be ok but there is a limit on what items can be stuffed through the opening.

I don't know about the peanut butter jars you've seen, but the lids of the peanut butter jars I've seen have been about as big around as the outside of the jar. So the neck opening is just a little smaller than the size of the jar itself, and wouldn't put any significant limitation on would might fit in the jar.

 

11 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

Some might say that a 2 liter soda bottle qualifies but, imo, it would be misleading to classify it regular in size. 

Soda bottles are completely different. All of the ones I've seen have had narrow necks that would severely limit one's ability to put anything in, or to take anything out (and that includes log sheets). They're horrible geocache containers, and arguing that they should be listed as a smaller geocache size than their volume might indicate is ignoring the more important issue that they are horrible geocache containers.

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11 hours ago, niraD said:

Soda bottles are completely different. All of the ones I've seen have had narrow necks that would severely limit one's ability to put anything in, or to take anything out (and that includes log sheets). They're horrible geocache containers, and arguing that they should be listed as a smaller geocache size than their volume might indicate is ignoring the more important issue that they are horrible geocache containers.

 

+1

 

A 16-oz soda bottle cache I found was listed as a "Micro".  The main bottle was the camo (or, the "theme"), a Coke bottle designed with "soda in it", and the neck containing the rolled-up log.  The log area was a tube carefully glued inside to keep the log dry and the "soda" separate.  https://coord.info/GC211AD

 

Cache sizes tend to be a combination of cache hunter expectations and regional customs.  So I've often looked at similar previous finds, to see what size other cache owners listed caches.  But around here I've rarely seen a cache that has space to only hold a Micro log listed as anything other than a Micro (well, sometimes as "Unknown"), regardless of camo size.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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