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Max and 99

The Bare Minimum

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Can we as a community not agree on the bare minimum for a waymark posting?

 

Two sentences in the long description, and variables that can be filled in are filled in.

 

Even categories that specifically state a minimum of two sentences in the long description is required are being approved without it.

 

So many waymarks this week have been approved with blank long descriptions and blank variables. It looks like a phone book listing.

 

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The problem is when we ask to expand the waymark a little more, some are not happy, explaining that it is not requested in the category, what to do to force them.

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I systematicaly declined a waymark without a long description even if it's not required

It's not difficult to add two sentences.

And it's always the same waymarkers....

We should define basic and default requirements, if it's not in the description, we apply default requirements.

What do you think about this idea ?

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if I accidentally forget to put something in the short description of a waymark I'm posting, the system gives me a reminder that I cannot leave the short description blank. I don't know if this is for every category or just certain categories.

Anyways, I wish the same thing could be done when you leave the long description blank. a note pops up saying a minimum of two sentences are required in a long description. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I don't know if this is for every category or just certain categories.

it's for all categories

9 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Anyways, I wish the same thing could be done when you leave the long description blank. a note pops up saying a minimum of two sentences are required in a long description. 

Very, very good idea

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1 hour ago, pmaupin said:

The problem is when we ask to expand the waymark a little more, some are not happy, explaining that it is not requested in the category, what to do to force them.

I completely understand! 

 

However, the category description also doesn't state that you have to select a country and state (or similar). It doesn't state it because it's so obvious.  In my opinion, it's the same for Long Description. Why else is it there except for you to describe what you are Waymarking? To me, it's obvious that you're expected to write something.

 

And leaving all variables blank is lazy, when a quick search provides all the information you need. And if you visited the location to waymark, you probably don't even need a search for the variables. 

 

But I do understand what you are saying!

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11 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

However, the category description also doesn't state that you have to select a country and state (or similar). It doesn't state it because it's so obvious.  In my opinion, it's the same for Long Description. Why else is it there except for you to describe what you are Waymarking? To me, it's obvious that you're expected to write something.

It's so obvious to a lot of waymarkers, but for others it's a chore, because you have to research (this is one of the most exciting parts of our game, the other part is to share our findings)

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If all reviewers were on the forum, we could just agree to decline.

 

I suppose a minimum of more than one photograph is going too far?

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5 minutes ago, elyob said:

If all reviewers were on the forum, we could just agree to decline.

 

I suppose a minimum of more than one photograph is going too far?

I think that should be the standard. But there are several categories that state photos are optional. 

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37 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I think that should be the standard. But there are several categories that state photos are optional. 

So that's the kicker.  The bare minimum cannot override specific statements in a category description, correct?  All other categories would be subject to an agreed upon bare minimum.  Working with a bare minimum, do we decline or simply not approve?  This is such a can of worms.  But a very interesting can.  In my head, I can already hear the ranting.  But I'm ready and very willing.  

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Posted (edited)

"A respectful photograph of the grave marker or headstone must be provided. If possible, the photograph should clearly identify the deceased by name."

 

Those instructions are in one of my reviewing categories.  I'm discouraged by the hundreds of waymarks in the category that include only "a" photograph and no other photograph to help waymarkers find the grave marker.  Specifically, what would we do with such a category?  Ignore hundreds of precedents but securing them as grandfathered?  To explain such changes to waymarkers will significantly add to our workload as reviewers.

Edited by elyob

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1 hour ago, elyob said:

"A respectful photograph of the grave marker or headstone must be provided. If possible, the photograph should clearly identify the deceased by name."

 

Those instructions are in one of my reviewing categories.  I'm discouraged by the hundreds of waymarks in the category that include only "a" photograph and no other photograph to help waymarkers find the grave marker.  Specifically, what would we do with such a category?  Ignore hundreds of precedents but securing them as grandfathered?  To explain such changes to waymarkers will significantly add to our workload as reviewers.

Thanks for bringing up this issue. 
Serious Question - do you have the capability to edit the category description?  If yes, poll your officers and get a consensus of what you want to do as far as a description update.
Make the update and post it into the forums if you can or want.  Post a note that as of such and such a date the category description was updated and all old waymarks are grandfathered and the updated description is in full effect.
As far as a additional workload, it is incumbent upon a waymarker to look up the category description each time s/he posts. That is the second of the two boxes s/he checks. If the waymarker doesn't look up the category description, cut and paste of category description can and is your best friend. Yes, there will be growing pains for a bit, but the quality of the waymarks will be enhanced.  Just my humble opinion and experience from updating three separate categories.

It's too bad, though, that it's a just numbers game for some.  There have been a significant number of waymarks that could have benefited and greatly enhanced from even a modicum of research.  Maybe, slowly but surely, we can get these legacy category descriptions brought up to the realities of current Waymarking. 

 

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21 minutes ago, iconions said:

Thanks for bringing up this issue. 
Serious Question - do you have the capability to edit the category description?  If yes, poll your officers and get a consensus of what you want to do as far as a description update.
Make the update and post it into the forums if you can or want.  Post a note that as of such and such a date the category description was updated and all old waymarks are grandfathered and the updated description is in full effect.


 

 

In that example, only the category leader can edit the category description.

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I have had this problem only a few times. But I have declined them for this reason and stated it in the comment.

 

I would never approve a waymark without a long description. So I'm on the side of your bare minimum of 2 sentences.

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9 hours ago, elyob said:

 

In that example, only the category leader can edit the category description.

Actually, the leader can give category editing rights to a category of an officer - I just double-checked.  That's why there is a separate  Officer 1 and an Officer 2 category.  That's why I asked the question I did.
 
 

 

44 minutes ago, Tante.Hossi said:

I have had this problem only a few times. But I have declined them for this reason and stated it in the comment.

 

I would never approve a waymark without a long description. So I'm on the side of your bare minimum of 2 sentences.

That's a nice sentiment, and I definitely understand it, however, if you add this unwritten category requirement, what other unwritten requirements will you add?  
As an officer, you have been asked to approve waymarks against a standard which is the category description.  This is why I get REALLY picky when it comes to new categories coming through peer review.  A great category description means you have set a meaningful standard for a potential waymarker to achieve.  If an officer denies a waymark due to an unwritten rule in the category description, how can the waymarker know, in advance, of what is expected? 

 

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10 minutes ago, iconions said:

If an officer denies a waymark due to an unwritten rule in the category description, how can the waymarker know, in advance, of what is expected?

That's why it is important to give a clear hint to the submitter why the waymark was denied. Not for the waymark itself and not for an unwritten rule - it was denied because a waymark without a long descripttion of at least two sentences is too poor to be approved. And so it is a very good idea by Max and 99 to ask other waymarkers, officers, leaders and players if they think in the same direction. And I personally do.

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37 minutes ago, Tante.Hossi said:

That's why it is important to give a clear hint to the submitter why the waymark was denied. Not for the waymark itself and not for an unwritten rule - it was denied because a waymark without a long descripttion of at least two sentences is too poor to be approved. And so it is a very good idea by Max and 99 to ask other waymarkers, officers, leaders and players if they think in the same direction. And I personally do.

What I am saying, though, if your category description doesn't REQUIRE a long description, it isn't the waymark that is too poor to be approved - the waymarker did what was expected.  The category DESCRIPTION IS TOO POOR, not the waymark.  Again, fix the problem with the category description and set the expectation for the waymarker.  Don't be the officer sitting in the ivory tower and passing judgement - that's not our job.  Our job is to review the  waymark as written against the category description as written.  Does it meet the standard?  No, ask the waymarker to make changes to the standard.   Adding the need of a long description into a category description is not a controversial change and if you are making denials consistently because of a lack of a long description, it needs to be added.  Place a base permanent goal line  for waymarkers to be successful and you should cut down on you denials.

 

 

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2 hours ago, iconions said:

Again, fix the problem with the category description and set the expectation for the waymarker.  Don't be the officer sitting in the ivory tower and passing judgement - that's not our job.

 

Is it really so easy !!!!

I contacted all leaders in category where i am officer and where descriptions needed to be renovated.

No one had replied even active leaders.

 

So if you are not a leader of a category and you do not have the rights do edit a category, no way to change anything and i will not edit alone a description if i am not the leader.

 

Two sentences requirement in a category must be a default requirement for all categories, no need to change the description.

 

 

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I review for a number of categories that have little in the way of minimum requirements and others that require two or three photographs and two or three sentences in the long description. It is much more enjoyable to review the more specific category submissions. They tend to be educational, informative and well thought out. Those with minimum requirements, well, that is what you get. The minimum. I would prefer a minimum number of sentences  and a minimum of two photographs in every category. And, have each reviewer hold to those requirements. Beyond the minimum, the long description should be relevant to the category, not just a copy and paste of material submitted to a different category in an attempt to do the least amount of work.

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