Dilemma: Should I share the final coordinates to a mystery?

[+MegaGengar]

Hi guys,

 

I've been faced with a dilemma. Recently, I solved "Global Geocaching: Vancouver", a puzzle cache which made me contact geocachers from all over the globe to get the final coordinates. After a LOT of messaging and some very nice cachers, I solved it and ended up being the Third to Find. While messaging, some people just gave me the coordinates to other Global Geocaches, without making me ask around. 

 

I then got a message from a cacher with 7,800 finds and 108 hides (TWO of the hides are archived--none others are even disabled when I checked). The cacher asked if I was kind enough to share the global geocaching Vancouver final coordinates adding that they are "not sure how you determine the number". Later, when they vacation to Rio De Janeiro, they offered to share the final coordinates there. I don't know what to do! On the one hand, I can share the coordinates but, as a puzzle cache owner myself, I know how frustrating it can be to have your final coordinates leaked with no questions asked. On the other hand, I can message back the cacher saying that I don't share final coordinates, explaining that they have to contact geocachers across the globe. I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite, as when messaging others, I did end up receiving the final coordinates to other (non-Vancouver) Global Geocaching. Also, in the past, I have messaged COs (and sometimes previous finders) for a nudge in the right direction solving their puzzle cache. Can someone give me some advice on what to do?

 

Thank you so much,

 

MegaGengar

 

[+Max and 99]

Just now, MegaGengar said:

While messaging, some people just gave me the coordinates to other Global Geocaches, without making me ask around

I've seen this. It's not OK in my book.

Someone on the other side of the globe sent my son final coords, not realizing that his parent was the CO. Ticked me off.

 

3 minutes ago, MegaGengar said:

The cacher asked if I was kind enough to share the global geocaching Vancouver final coordinates adding that they are "not sure how you determine the number". Later, when they vacation to Rio De Janeiro, they offered to share the final coordinates there. 

 

I wouldn't use the coords sent to me and I would not give out the final coords of someone else's puzzle.

 

Also, since GC guidelines state that you cannot log a find on a cache you did not physically visit, what's the point of sharing those coordinates with geocachers on the other side of the globe? 

 

 

[+Max and 99]

Apologies for responding before being fully informed. This thing is complicated! 

I think taking up an offer for one person to share 19 codes is a huge shortcut that I personally would refrain from. 

[+CAVinoGal]

17 minutes ago, MegaGengar said:

On the one hand, I can share the coordinates but, as a puzzle cache owner myself, I know how frustrating it can be to have your final coordinates leaked with no questions asked. On the other hand, I can message back the cacher saying that I don't share final coordinates, explaining that they have to contact geocachers across the globe. I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite, as when messaging others, I did end up receiving the final coordinates to other (non-Vancouver) Global Geocaching. Also, in the past, I have messaged COs (and sometimes previous finders) for a nudge in the right direction solving their puzzle cache. Can someone give me some advice on what to do?

Without having looked at the cache(s) in question, my answer is based on my own personal ethics, and your "dilemma". as you put it.  For you, it's a dilemma - you're not sure it's the right thing to do - so go with your gut.  It's not right, you had to work for it, so should others!

 

You are not being hypocritial if other cachers GAVE you the final coordinates without you asking for them - you did what was required by contacting other geocachers around the globe - politely push those who ask you for final coordinates to do the same. DO THE PUZZLE!  And yes, as Max and 99 said, you can ignore the coordinates given to you and proceed to complete the other puzzles, perhaps using the coordinates given you as a double check of your own work.

 

Yes, messaging others for a nudge is OK, asking for the answer outright is NOT right, IMO.

[+Touchstone]

The Listing you referenced is apparently designed to promote a group effort to solve.  It appears that people outside the area are allowed to post a Find without actually signing the physical log book.  It's not a game I choose to play, but I realize it's a personal preference, and people probably feel entitled to the Find after putting in the time to solve it.

[+MegaGengar]

38 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

Without having looked at the cache(s) in question, my answer is based on my own personal ethics, and your "dilemma". as you put it.  For you, it's a dilemma - you're not sure it's the right thing to do - so go with your gut.  It's not right, you had to work for it, so should others!

 

You are not being hypocritial if other cachers GAVE you the final coordinates without you asking for them - you did what was required by contacting other geocachers around the globe - politely push those who ask you for final coordinates to do the same. DO THE PUZZLE!  And yes, as Max and 99 said, you can ignore the coordinates given to you and proceed to complete the other puzzles, perhaps using the coordinates given you as a double check of your own work.

 

Yes, messaging others for a nudge is OK, asking for the answer outright is NOT right, IMO.

Thank you so much for your response. You guys are the best—I think I’ll nicely message back the cacher explaining that I won’t give the coordinates, but instructing them on how to gather then. 

[+MegaGengar]

48 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Apologies for responding before being fully informed. This thing is complicated! 

I think taking up an offer for one person to share 19 codes is a huge shortcut that I personally would refrain from. 

No issue at all. It is complicated—took me a while to figure out. Thanks for your insight, I think I won’t share them after all

[+MegaGengar]

56 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I've seen this. It's not OK in my book.

Someone on the other side of the globe sent my son final coords, not realizing that his parent was the CO. Ticked me off.

 

 

I wouldn't use the coords sent to me and I would not give out the final coords of someone else's puzzle.

 

Also, since GC guidelines state that you cannot log a find on a cache you did not physically visit, what's the point of sharing those coordinates with geocachers on the other side of the globe? 

 

 

The point is that if I ever visit those places I could find the cache there. 

[+MegaGengar]

39 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

The Listing you referenced is apparently designed to promote a group effort to solve.  It appears that people outside the area are allowed to post a Find without actually signing the physical log book.  It's not a game I choose to play, but I realize it's a personal preference, and people probably feel entitled to the Find after putting in the time to solve it.

I never knew that you could find it without visiting. I always thought you had to sign and find, but if others choose not to, that’s on them. 

[+Max and 99]

6 minutes ago, MegaGengar said:

I never knew that you could find it without visiting. I always thought you had to sign and find, but if others choose not to, that’s on them. 

Ditto.

[+Max and 99]

That geocache is listed as a Teamwork cache, which falls under this guideline:

 

As a geocacher, you should not sign the name of your teamwork partner in the log of your local cache. You can only claim a find if you visit the cache yourself.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Max and 99

[+MegaGengar]

29 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

That geocache is listed as a Teamwork cache, which falls under this guideline:

 

As a geocacher, you should not sign the name of your teamwork partner in the log of your local cache. You can only claim a find if you visit the cache yourself.

Sorry, I think I was unclear. I’m not logging caches that I haven’t visited, feel free to check my history; the only global geocaching I logged is here in Vancouver. 

[+Max and 99]

14 minutes ago, MegaGengar said:

Sorry, I think I was unclear. I’m not logging caches that I haven’t visited, feel free to check my history; the only global geocaching I logged is here in Vancouver. 

Oh no, I was never referring to you logging caches you hadn't found!   

I was attempting to back you up when you responded to Touchstone. 

Sorry for any confusion.

[+cerberus1]

12 hours ago, MegaGengar said:

 Recently, I solved "Global Geocaching: Vancouver", a puzzle cache which made me contact geocachers from all over the globe to get the final coordinates.

 

12 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I think taking up an offer for one person to share 19 codes is a huge shortcut that I personally would refrain from. 

 

Is this one of those "teamwork" things that I see in "all nations" forums once-in-a-while,  where folks are "finding" caches in each-others areas they've never been to ?

[+The A-Team]

5 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

Is this one of those "teamwork" things that I see in "all nations" forums once-in-a-while,  where folks are "finding" caches in each-others areas they've never been to ?

 

That seems to be what Touchstone is saying, but I'm not seeing that in this case. The listing doesn't mention that type of logging, and those who are logging it are people who actually visited GZ and signed the log. I'm not seeing any evidence of bogus-logging.

[+MegaGengar]

19 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Oh no, I was never referring to you logging caches you hadn't found!   

I was attempting to back you up when you responded to Touchstone. 

Sorry for any confusion.

Thanks for the clear up. I didn't think you were, but just wanted to be crystal clear so I'm not misinterpreted :)

[+bflentje]

23 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I think taking up an offer for one person to share 19 codes is a huge shortcut that I personally would refrain from. 

 

I did the one in Ireland. I disagree. Or at least I disagree on the idea of not providing any help whatsoever.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

7 hours ago, bflentje said:

 

I did the one in Ireland. I disagree. Or at least I disagree on the idea of not providing any help whatsoever.

 

I also did the one in Bray, Ireland (it's near Europe's First).  I posted something in All Nations asking for help from geocachers from other countries.  The first to respond sent me the entire final coordinates, unsolicited.  The intent of this cache, and others like it is to collaborate with several other geocachers around the world to "solve the puzzle".  Unfortunately, some don't seem to care what the CO intended, and will get that +1 on their find count with as little effort as possible.  

[+cerberus1]

16 hours ago, The A-Team said:

That seems to be what Touchstone is saying, but I'm not seeing that in this case. The listing doesn't mention that type of logging, and those who are logging it are people who actually visited GZ and signed the log. I'm not seeing any evidence of bogus-logging.

 

Thanks.   

IIRC, the guidelines on logging those things happened because it was becoming the standard that some could (and did) simply sign each-others names.   

[+cerberus1]

3 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I posted something in All Nations asking for help from geocachers from other countries.  The first to respond sent me the entire final coordinates, unsolicited. 

The intent of this cache, and others like it is to collaborate with several other geocachers around the world to "solve the puzzle". 

Unfortunately, some don't seem to care what the CO intended, and will get that +1 on their find count with as little effort as possible.  

 

When the other 2/3rds seemed interested in these, it was the COs that offered it as an easy way for another smiley (and souvenir in another country).

The few times I asked in the all-nations forums, most never responded, and never came back with other offers, showing their intent. 

 - I would have liked her to do the same, so all could see, instead of an email saying "thanks...but no thanks". 

[+Crazedllama]

I think that a few of the people posting above may not have actually worked through this puzzle. It is designed in such a way that even if you do work with people from around the world that the final coordinates cannot be obtained unless you are physically standing in Vancouver. 

Many of the geocachers who worked on that puzzle felt cheated when the checker told them to visit Vancouver for the real final coordinates even though they had helped get the answers for local cachers. 

The real kicker is... The CO of that cache likely has never been to Vancouver themselves. 

Personally, I would share coordinates with anyone who had helped work through this kind of puzzle with me. 

Other types of puzzles, probably not. 

[+The A-Team]

4 hours ago, Crazedllama said:

Many of the geocachers who worked on that puzzle felt cheated when the checker told them to visit Vancouver for the real final coordinates even though they had helped get the answers for local cachers.

I don't get it. What did they feel they were cheated out of? If they didn't have any plans to go to Vancouver and find the cache, then they don't need the final coordinates. If they did have plans, they can get the final coordinates once they go there. Were they expecting that they would somehow be gifted the full coordinates for helping someone local to the cache get a piece of the coordinates? That doesn't make any sense.

[+Crazedllama]

On 10/4/2019 at 4:41 AM, The A-Team said:

I don't get it. What did they feel they were cheated out of? If they didn't have any plans to go to Vancouver and find the cache, then they don't need the final coordinates. If they did have plans, they can get the final coordinates once they go there. Were they expecting that they would somehow be gifted the full coordinates for helping someone local to the cache get a piece of the coordinates? That doesn't make any sense.

I apparently wasn't clear enough. Many geocachers solved this cache. Contacted 60 or more geocachers around the world, just to be told by the checker they had to physically be in Vancouver to get final coordinates. This is also a place that the owner themselves had likely never been to. Furthermore, you have to be connected using a local IP address without proxy, so if you are using a foreign phone or foreign data plan, coordinates are literally impossible to get without talking to a local. 

When I plan vacations to foreign countries I need to meticulously plan my vacation because I'm always with muggles. A big change of plans to go to a place I didn't expect because I could only get coordinates near the spot means that cache won't be found. After all the work getting to that point, it'd be really frustrating. 

I'm not advocating for sharing final coordinates to most mystery caches, but this one I don't see the problem because literally only a local can obtain final coordinates.