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TwistedCube

Asking To Archive Caches

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One of my local trail systems has many under-maintained and mediocre caches along the 2 mile stretch. They were placed about 2 years ago and the most recent "Found It" logs were from last summer. I myself have tried to find some of them and the ones I couldn't locate I attempted several times during bike rides and walks. The original CO (who still hogs the area with at least 100 below average caches) moved away and the caches were adopted by a well respected CO who is a very active hider himself. In fact, he has nearly 200 hides at this point, and all that he has placed himself are in top notch condition, save for the ones he took over from the absent CO.

 

Since the caches along the trail are mostly gone and full of DNF's, and the containers that are still there are mediocre at best, does it seem out of my bounds or taboo to ask if I could put some new caches out in place of the old ones? I am planning on mixing in some field puzzles and gadget caches to keep it interesting and also to increase traffic, and all of the other caches I could place  will be homemade and checked on regularly. From speaking to local cachers at events, I can tell that the current CO is a neat guy and even they themselves stated that he was willing to archive some to make room for theirs, but since I haven't met him, I don't know if it would come across as strange or rude to ask him to make some room for mine. 

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Honestly, yes it does seem rude to ask a person to remove their not very good caches so that you can put your better ones there instead.

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1 hour ago, TwistedCube said:

One of my local trail systems has many under-maintained and mediocre caches along the 2 mile stretch. They were placed about 2 years ago and the most recent "Found It" logs were from last summer. I myself have tried to find some of them and the ones I couldn't locate I attempted several times during bike rides and walks. The original CO (who still hogs the area with at least 100 below average caches) moved away and the caches were adopted by a well respected CO who is a very active hider himself. In fact, he has nearly 200 hides at this point, and all that he has placed himself are in top notch condition, save for the ones he took over from the absent CO.

 

Since the caches along the trail are mostly gone and full of DNF's, and the containers that are still there are mediocre at best, does it seem out of my bounds or taboo to ask if I could put some new caches out in place of the old ones? I am planning on mixing in some field puzzles and gadget caches to keep it interesting and also to increase traffic, and all of the other caches I could place  will be homemade and checked on regularly. From speaking to local cachers at events, I can tell that the current CO is a neat guy and even they themselves stated that he was willing to archive some to make room for theirs, but since I haven't met him, I don't know if it would come across as strange or rude to ask him to make some room for mine. 

 

You say this CO who adopted these caches is well-respected.   There's DNFs, but has anyone logged a NM ? 

How about a simple email saying some of those caches need some maintenance ?

 - If he is a very active hider (as you say), he might like to know that some adopted caches need maintenance.   :)

 

So someone else's caches are mediocre, and you're going to save the hobby by placing "quality" caches in their place ?

Taking another's caches and replacing them with something not even listed correctly on the cache page (I feel) is an odd thing to do.

 - I'd bet if the CO complained to HQ, you'd be the one having to explain yourself...

 

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Your best course of action in my opinion is to not worry about the quality of caches. Some people like PNG's others don't. My kids loved LPC when they were younger, others don't. Some don't like nano's. It's all good in my opinion, if seeing the cache unfound on the map bothers you put it on your ignore list. Believe it or not you can not find them all.

 

If it was me. Like you did go look for the cache even if there may be a DNF or two. File your DNF if you fail to find it. File a NM log as well. Give the CO the opportunity to rectify the situation. You said yourself they are a good CO. The local reviewer may even put a temporary disable on it. If the CO fails to fix the problem and no help from the reviewer well then after a month or two feel free to file a NA. If it gets archived there is your chance go amaze your local community with a great new cache for them to find. 

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I'm kinda disappointed by the answers you're getting. Yes, of course it's fine to talk to the CO and ask if he'd like some help or even let you take over the area. All I can imagine is that the other people responding to your OP think you're going to say, "Hey, your caches suck, and I demand you archive them." But, naturally, you're just going to politely talk it over with him and work with him to make the geocaching in that area better for everyone. Sure, you do something like that in a rude way if you try hard enough, but it's not inherently rude or offensive, and any reasonable CO should be happy to hear the input.

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4 hours ago, dprovan said:

I'm kinda disappointed by the answers you're getting. Yes, of course it's fine to talk to the CO and ask if he'd like some help or even let you take over the area. All I can imagine is that the other people responding to your OP think you're going to say, "Hey, your caches suck, and I demand you archive them." But, naturally, you're just going to politely talk it over with him and work with him to make the geocaching in that area better for everyone. Sure, you do something like that in a rude way if you try hard enough, but it's not inherently rude or offensive, and any reasonable CO should be happy to hear the input.

Exactly! The only reason I was even thinking of asking him to archive caches is that other local cachers said that he was willing to do so due to his massive hide count. Also, these caches haven't even been found in 6 months and the other caches he adopted from the absent CO have been there for 5 years with logs few and far between. I just wanted to put out some fresh caches so that others in the area have something to do, it wasn't even about the quality of the original hides that was the issue, it was that they were mediocre due to the lack of maintenance and missing/broken containers. When they were fixed last year they were above average. The few containers left are so-so because of wet logs, or missing lids. I think that the new CO and the absent CO were friends so when he left, he asked his buddy to take over the caches for him, which nearly doubled his hide count. Sure, he could fix them all, but it looks to me that he doesn't care about the ones he adopted quite as much as his original hides, whom he cares for very well. 

 

I also want do put out some new ones to bring variety to the area. the absent CO put out preform tubes in trees and ONLY preform tubes in trees. There are 100+ other caches he left behind that are missing/broken, and now, belong to the current CO.

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10 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 

You say this CO who adopted these caches is well-respected.   There's DNFs, but has anyone logged a NM ? 

How about a simple email saying some of those caches need some maintenance ?

 - If he is a very active hider (as you say), he might like to know that some adopted caches need maintenance.   :)

 

So someone else's caches are mediocre, and you're going to save the hobby by placing "quality" caches in their place ?

Taking another's caches and replacing them with something not even listed correctly on the cache page (I feel) is an odd thing to do.

 - I'd bet if the CO complained to HQ, you'd be the one having to explain yourself...

 

They are mediocre now because they are broken, have a missing lid, or are full of water.

 

I wouldn't "take another's caches and replace them with something not even listed correctly on the cache page". I would put out new containers with new listings. 

 

The CO seems well-respected and is good at maintenance, yes, but that is with his own hides, the ones he placed himself. Those are in top-notch condition. But, the 100+ cache series he adopted hasn't been checked on for months.

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4 minutes ago, TwistedCube said:

Exactly! The only reason I was even thinking of asking him to archive caches is that other local cachers said that he was willing to do so due to his massive hide count. Also, these caches haven't even been found in 6 months and the other caches he adopted from the absent CO have been there for 5 years with logs few and far between. I just wanted to put out some fresh caches so that others in the area have something to do, it wasn't even about the quality of the original hides that was the issue, it was that they were mediocre due to the lack of maintenance and missing/broken containers. When they were fixed last year they were above average. The few containers left are so-so because of wet logs, or missing lids. I think that the new CO and the absent CO were friends so when he left, he asked his buddy to take over the caches for him, which nearly doubled his hide count. Sure, he could fix them all, but it looks to me that he doesn't care about the ones he adopted quite as much as his original hides, whom he cares for very well. 

 

I also want do put out some new ones to bring variety to the area. the absent CO put out preform tubes in trees and ONLY preform tubes in trees. There are 100+ other caches he left behind that are missing/broken, and now, belong to the current CO.

 

I'd contact the adoptee and "talk" with him directly before going the route of filing a NA log.  That way you'll know for certain the plans and if he says it's OK, then you can have him hold off on archiving them until you actually have all your caches made, coordinates taken and verified, caches placed, old caches retrieved, and cache pages done and ready to go.  All you would then need to do is hit submit.

 

If he says no, he has plans to fix them up, then you'd know that as well.  I think it's bad form to file a NA without first contacting the CO, especially with your comments about under maintained and mediocre caches there now.  Whether you meant it or not, your comments elicit the idea that the caches aren't any good, regardless of whether it's because of the container or the state of the cache.

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3 hours ago, coachstahly said:

I'd contact the adoptee and "talk" with him directly before going the route of filing a NA log.

I don't think the OP was considering filing NAs, and I certainly agree that filing NAs is inappropriate in this case where the cache's haven't reached the point where they truly need to be archived. I guess the title of the thread is confusing, but I assumed the OP meant to ask the CO to archive the caches, not that he's considering filing NAs suggesting a reviewer archive them.

 

3 hours ago, coachstahly said:

I think it's bad form to file a NA without first contacting the CO, especially with your comments about under maintained and mediocre caches there now.

In the case presented in the OP, contacting the CO is clearly the way to go. But just to be clear, in general, if a cache has reached the state where someone thinks it needs to be archived, a public NA puts the case out in public where it should be. But definitely, "it's mediocre" is not a valid reason for filing an NA.

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"Since the caches along the trail are mostly gone and full of DNF's, and the containers that are still there are mediocre at best, "

 

My bolded=NM and let that run its course

My italics=not something I would ask a CO if s/he would archive so I could put my superior cache in place

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As Michaelcycle points out, an NM on the missing and multiple DNF's seems warranted. I would do that regardless.

 

As for approaching them, that is where things can go sideways in a hurry. E-mail is OK, but you really need to be careful with the wording. (I wrote what I thought was a glowing review for one of my staff, and they read it completely opposite. It all hinged on one word.) If possible, meeting at a local event would be my preferred choice. That way, you get the benefit of the non-verbal communications. It's also a neutral, public place, so there is less of a chance of people saying something that makes the situation nonredeemable. 

 

Back to the content, I would leave 'quality' out of any discussion. Everyone's definition is different. It's all about the location, and the maintenance. "Hey, I put a couple of NM's on your caches along such-and-such trail. I'm interested in finding them. Do you know when you will have a chance to go and look at them?". Hopefully, they will let you know their plans. If they plan on archiving the caches, and placing new ones, you could consider asking if they want to partner on some of the replacements. You have some ideas for caches that would work well. Anyhow, leave quality out of the discussion.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Michaelcycle said:

"Since the caches along the trail are mostly gone and full of DNF's, and the containers that are still there are mediocre at best, "

 

My bolded=NM and let that run its course

My italics=not something I would ask a CO if s/he would archive so I could put my superior cache in place

 

This.

 

Quote

they are broken, have a missing lid, or are full of water.

 

After the NM, if there is no response from the CO after 4 weeks, log an NA. Outline the problems and the lack of response to last month's NM. 

 

Edited by L0ne.R
Added additional quote

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7 hours ago, TwistedCube said:

I wouldn't "take another's caches and replace them with something not even listed correctly on the cache page". I would put out new containers with new listings. 

 

Thanks for explaining that.   :)   After archived of course...

Isn't the same as "Since the caches along the trail are mostly gone and full of DNF's, and the containers that are still there are mediocre at best, does it seem out of my bounds or taboo to ask if I could put some new caches out in place of the old ones? " seems to imply.

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14 hours ago, TwistedCube said:

They are mediocre now because they are broken, have a missing lid, or are full of water.

...

The CO seems well-respected and is good at maintenance, yes, but that is with his own hides, the ones he placed himself. Those are in top-notch condition. But, the 100+ cache series he adopted hasn't been checked on for months.

 

As others have mentioned, if the problem caches don't already have NM logs, then submitting an NM log will help the new CO know there are problems with certain caches.  How do you know that the new CO even knows the status of the adopted caches. It's possible he found the caches before adopting them and just hasn't yet had time to go and visit all the ones he adopted, and why would he without seeing NM logs filed against them. 

 

Not check on for "months" is not necessarily a problem, unless those caches have the NM attribute.

 

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Asking to archive a cache is not rude in my book so long as you're not rude about suggesting that someone is HOGGING an area. That's what's rude. 

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