Avoiding plastic in the container

[+_Trisma]

Hi everyone,

 

When placing a container or replacing a logbook, does anyone have an idea on how to avoid plastic bags to prevent water from damaging the logbook?

They are very useful but can sometimes have holes in it after a while and then some plastic got lost in the nature.

Is there any way of prevent using any plastic at all except of the container? Of course I can buy a 100% water proof container but even the best containers can get wet for some reasons.

[+kunarion]

Buy a 100% water proof container. 

 

My current plan for my caches is to replace logs (or dry them) when they get wet.  My containers all seal well, and I design the hide so that water doesn't pool along the seal so much.  Because "waterproof paper" hasn't proven to be worth the trouble, I use ordinary paper log sheets and log books.  I'm removing a lot of the ziplock bags in my caches.  They actually create more issues.

[+_Trisma]

1 minute ago, kunarion said:

Buy a 100% water proof container. 

 

My current plan for my caches is to replace logs (or dry them) when they get wet.  My containers all seal well, and I design the hide so that water doesn't pool along the seal so much.  Because "waterproof paper" hasn't proven to be worth the trouble, I use ordinary paper log sheets and log books.  I'm removing a lot of the ziplock bags in my caches.  They actually create more issues.

I'll maybe try to make waterproof caches then. I'll maybe keep using the plastic bags for when I see that an already existing cache is wet.

Maybe with a rubber band it will keep the water outside, and of course choosing a place where it's pretty dry in the first place.

 

Thanks for the information.

[+cerberus1]

If you have to have a plastic baggie inside a cache, I feel it's already failed as a container.

Our caches have freezer bags in them just to sort things (log from swag mostly).  I leave the open, but we always find them sealed.  

Whatever you add to it will just happen again.  Buy better containers instead.

I'd keep rubber bands away unless you're sure the plastic won't melt.  We saw one cache destroyed just by dollar-store jelly-rubber insects.

 

We keep Rite in Rain strips in little coin baggies JIC we happen to find one wet or full, but meant only until the CO can fix it themselves.

[+kunarion]

23 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

If you have to have a plastic baggie inside a cache, I feel it's already failed as a container.

Our caches have freezer bags in them just to sort things (log from swag mostly).  I leave the open, but we always find them sealed.  

Whatever you add to it will just happen again.  Buy better containers instead.

 

+1

 

I've used ziplock bags to help the log book stand out from other items, just to organize things.  But after the corner of a ziplock bag was closed into the seal of an ammo can, I've used the bags less often.  The items in that can were soaked, except for the nice dry log book in its intact bag.  But without that bag, the insides wouldn't have gotten wet.

 

Of all my hides (and even caches I find), ammo cans are remarkably more dry, especially if they sit upright in their hiding spots.  Unfortunately, Geocachers can't figure out the complex mechanism that opens and closes the can. Maybe I should list all of mine as puzzle caches. 

[+IceColdUK]

I’ve got rid of all of the plastic bags from my caches now.  35mm film cans make terrible caches, but they do make a decent inner container, inside even smallish caches, to add a little extra protection for the logbook.

[+CAVinoGal]

1 hour ago, IceColdUK said:

35mm film cans make terrible caches, but they do make a decent inner container,

+1 - container within a container has worked for us, even on one that was placed in a wetland area, and was totally submerged with our winter rains.  Water in the outer container, but the 35mm can inside of THAT was still sealed and the logsheet (yes, it was in a baggie ? ) was dry and in excellent shape. 

[+cerberus1]

39 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

+1 - container within a container has worked for us, even on one that was placed in a wetland area, and was totally submerged with our winter rains.  Water in the outer container, but the 35mm can inside of THAT was still sealed and the logsheet  (yes, it was in a baggie ? ) was dry and in excellent shape. 

 

Thanks for that.  Makes sense that a log sheet or strip would benefit with a film can.  

[+_Trisma]

Thanks a lot for all your replies. I think the best is to have a realy good sealed container, it seems the most efficient and most easy way to do it.

[+arisoft]

3 hours ago, tristan vermeesch said:

Thanks a lot for all your replies. I think the best is to have a realy good sealed container, it seems the most efficient and most easy way to do it.

 

Seals are efficient until some dirt sticks on the seal and let moisture to generate inside. A good idea but not always working depending on environment. Sometimes it helps if you drill holes in the container. Again this is depending the environment. One of my caches were full of water but with extra holes no problems in many years.

[+barefootjeff]

I've been using "stone paper" logbooks ever since hearing about them at an event a few years back. They're sold here by the Officeworks chain of stationery stores under the "Tradie" brand and use a paper made from polymer and crushed stone. I tried writing on a sheet with a variety of implements (ball-point pen, pencil, Sharpie, etc.) then left it in a bucket of water for a week and after drying out it was fine. The only problem I've seen is some water-based felt-tip pens will bleed through when wet.

 

[+fizzymagic]

Use waterproof paper for your log.  Always.  Period.

[+Goldenwattle]

47 minutes ago, fizzymagic said:

Use waterproof paper for your log.  Always.  Period.

And there is waterproof paper and waterproof paper. There's a choice; some better than others.

[+Goldenwattle]

2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I've been using "stone paper" logbooks ever since hearing about them at an event a few years back. They're sold here by the Officeworks chain of stationery stores under the "Tradie" brand and use a paper made from polymer and crushed stone. I tried writing on a sheet with a variety of implements (ball-point pen, pencil, Sharpie, etc.) then left it in a bucket of water for a week and after drying out it was fine. The only problem I've seen is some water-based felt-tip pens will bleed through when wet.

 

Great stuff; I use the same. Much better than that horrible, stiff waterproof rolls some people insist on using, that are hard to write on and get out of tubes. Stone paper is easy to write on and not stiff.

[+lee737]

I buy the stone paper books, cut up the pages and make our own mini logbooks for small sistemas (like a lock'n'lock) and even preform containers - excellent paper, and as Jeff said, completely waterproof if it does get wet. I use Rite In The Rain paper too in some, but a lot of pens won't write on it well.

For containers - I will always use an internal sub container for the logbook if I can, without a bag. Where there isn't space, I custom make little logbooks that fit into small, thick ziplocks, that will lay flat inside the container without folding, we've never had one of these break or leak, you can get them down to near postage stamp size, quite handy. I always hate seeing a tiny logsheet in a bag I could get over my head, rolled and scrunched into a tiny container.... useless..... 

[+lee737]

4 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

Use waterproof paper for your log.  Always.  Period.

 

I agree. But realise that the 'waterproofness' of the paper is just your last line of defence against water, the container must seal.....

[+barefootjeff]

51 minutes ago, lee737 said:

 

I agree. But realise that the 'waterproofness' of the paper is just your last line of defence against water, the container must seal.....

 

Unless the hiding place is someplace out of the weather, like inside a cave. Then a container that doesn't seal completely might be an advantage as it won't suffer from condensation if opened on a really humid day. I don't have any first hand experience of that though, as I have both Sistemas and non-sealing metal containers in dry hiding places and none have ever suffered from condensation or any other moisture entry.

[+kunarion]

55 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Unless the hiding place is someplace out of the weather, like inside a cave. Then a container that doesn't seal completely might be an advantage as it won't suffer from condensation if opened on a really humid day. I don't have any first hand experience of that though, as I have both Sistemas and non-sealing metal containers in dry hiding places and none have ever suffered from condensation or any other moisture entry.

 

Some of my lock-n-lock plastic boxes seem to always become moist and then soaked (waterproof paper becoming moldy, slimy, dripping wet waterproof paper), others remain bone dry.  None are in caves.  I don't know what the deal is with similar boxes and hide styles in an area, some chronically wet. 

 

But I have "Gamma Seal" lid 5-gallon buckets, and they are water collectors for sure. They have a threaded top and an O-ring that kind of seals, but condensation, air pressure and much more seem to conspire to produce great amounts of water.  Not particularly clean water, either.

 

Instead of resorting to slime paper and caves, I would greatly appreciate if Geocachers would let me know when a cache is moist -- long before the contents are absolutely "NM" gross.  Or even mention when it's clean and dry.  If I can sign a log, it probably doesn't need maintenance, but I will mention if it's become at least "humid" so any issue could be addressed before it does "need maintenance".

[+_Trisma]

5 hours ago, lee737 said:

 

I agree. But realise that the 'waterproofness' of the paper is just your last line of defence against water, the container must seal.....

Water proof paper is indeed a must have, but the problem is that once it's wet, you have to dry it to write on it and I don't think that a logger wants to wait until the paper is completely dry for it to write on. But I suppose that a good sealed container and a waterproof logbook is the best combination.

[+cerberus1]

5 hours ago, tristan vermeesch said:

Water proof paper is indeed a must have, but the problem is that once it's wet, you have to dry it to write on it and I don't think that a logger wants to wait until the paper is completely dry for it to write on. But I suppose that a good sealed container and a waterproof logbook is the best combination.

 

We have one micro still in play.  Real local (the only reason it's still there).  Rite in Rain strips for a log.

The few times I got a call (new person went with past finder), I stopped over, wiped the log on a paper towel, and handed it back to them. 

[+DerDiedler]

I'm finding this plastic bags inside a cache worthless. They tend to be punctured real quick, the zip lock ripps or they just get nasty inside. I even think they keep moisture more in than out. If a cache is really wet inside, a plastic bag don't help much at all.

You can place a good an pretty waterproof cache AND safe even more plastic by using one of these aluminium boxes.

 

They seal verry well and are super sturdy.

Edited April 15, 2019 by DerDiedler

[+kunarion]

8 hours ago, DerDiedler said:

You can place a good an pretty waterproof cache AND safe even more plastic by using one of these aluminium boxes.

 

That looks pretty cool! What are those?  Is there a rubber seal?  How does the cost compare to a surplus ammo box?

I can usually find a decent ammo box among a selection in a local army/navy store.  But shipping costs for unique items kills me.  Such as $3.50 for a nano, plus $4.00 shipping.

[+DerDiedler]

@kunarion

They are sold here in Germany as Lunchboxes in various sizes. They have a silicon sealing inside. They retail here for about 10€.

[+RocTheCacheBox]

On 4/13/2019 at 9:18 AM, tristan vermeesch said:

When placing a container or replacing a logbook, does anyone have an idea on how to avoid plastic bags to prevent water from damaging the logbook?

   

     Use a waterproof container as your first line of defense. The one minor problem with waterproof containers if that they will also hold moisture in! So when someone comes along and opens it on a rainy day, moisture gets in. Heat makes the problem worse. Many cachers are careful to keep the cache dry. Some are new and not aware they should do their best to keep it dry. Some just don't care. 

    Secondary containers for the log placed in the containers such as film cans, bison tubes, Ziplocks can be helpful but are also susceptible to the cacher allowing moisture to enter or get on the log while signing. Waterproof paper will help. Desiccant packs can help somewhat.  

     The last line of defense is Needs Maintenance logs. Cachers need to use them when they find wet logs so the owner knows. Owners need to ensure replacement when notified.