The Benefits of logging a DNF

January 31, 2003

I am finding that it is becoming more and more of a pet peeve that some individuals do not log DNF. For what reason would you not log a DNF? What it counts against you or something (said sarcastically!).

Recently a fellow geocacher lost their GPS and when I went to check my page for their log, I found no log. Granted this particular cacher is under 20 finds, but I know some of your out there with over 200 finds who do not log DNF.

Since this cacher is under the 20 finds, lost their gps at one of my caches, I am offering a reward, however, am a bit peeve at those who I KNOW have hunted this, but didn't log a DNF.

Ok, that was my rant and rave. If you want to know more about the REWARD I am offering for the safe return of one of our newer cachers GPS, please send me email.

1.5k · January 31, 2003

I usually don't log a DNF if I never get to the appropriate parking location for a cache. For example, if I park, and start hiking, and then find that its either impossible (eg. parking at the bottom of Hash Rock to find a cache on the TOP) or unreasonable (parked on wrong side of very large lake, etc) for me to reach the cache via my chosen route, I don't log a DNF.

Examples of times that I have logged a DNF, are the Maples Cache (gc3106), I parked and searched for a while but couldn't find it (wacky GPS) - Crooked View (gc3dd2), wrong approach and inappropriate vehicle, but spent all day on it and wanted to acknowledge the effort - Palisades (GC6615), it was very very hot, I didn't have enough water, and wasn't in good enough shape to complete the cache, turned around before passing out - And "The rain is tess, etc" (gc8D69), wrong approach but could have made it with some swamp walking, but it got dark.

January 31, 2003

We don't usually log DNFs if we couldn't even get close. Due to snow or washout (a road was washed out near Florence preventing us from getting to a cache) but if we look in what we THINK is the right area, and we don't find it.. we will log it as a not found. When we first started caching, I viewed logging a Did not find as a sortof failure. Stupid as that sounds. Now, I could care less. I appreciate other peoples DNF's when seeking a cache, as it gives me that much more information on hand. Also, after a few DNF's... the cache owner should be conscientous enough to go check out the cache, but if you don't ever log your DNF, how are the cache owners to know it may be missing or destroyed?

January 31, 2003

As you put it in those words, then yes, I could actually agree with not logging a DNF, I also agree that if you only search for 10 minutes, then you shouldn't log a DNF. I am really speaking about those who I KNOW and observed having spent more than a few minutes(more than 20) at the cache site.

So I fully agree with the amount of time rule, the parking rule, the rained out rule, but if you put more than 10 minutes into looking and don't find it, and I do mean at the site, then I feel it is rather odd that a DNF wasn't logged.

Oh well.....I just hope we have lots of honest and helpful cachers in my area that will either say they found it, return it, and all that fun jazz. I really hate that this has happened to a newbie, and know that myself have left things behind.

I even thought I lost my wallet one time.

January 31, 2003

On one of the very first caches we ever placed. Luckily our friends were the first finders, and knew we had lost it.. so we got it back. Funny thing is.. I never liked that holster.. It was really for a Magellan, and I have a Garmin.. and I end up carrying the GPS at elbow level most the time anyway.

January 31, 2003

I usually won't log a DNF unless I've spent more than 2 hours and 2 trips searching for a cache.

Most of the time I will post a note that I attempted to find it. The reason I use the note feature is because I secretly hope the cache owner will take the time to send me a hint that is better than the one on the cache page.

___________________________________________

Cum catapultae proscriptae erat,

tum soli proscript catapultas habeunt.

January 31, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bad Dog 1762:
For what reason would you not log a DNF? What it counts against you or something (said sarcastically!).

Well actually it does count against you. If you are one of the people who actually track your standings on the stats page a DNF will negate one of your founds.

That said I always log a DNF when I can't find a cache. But I have some simple rules about it. For me to log a DNF I have to be at the location (or at least what I think is the location) of the cache and be physically searching for it. Say for instance that I'm doing a cache that requires a 4 mile hike to get to. If I hike in 3.75 miles and don't feel like continuing, for what ever reason, I don't count that as a DNF. IF I do hike the 4 miles and the falls there are too spectacular and I waste all my daylight taking pictures of the falls and not looking for the cache I don't count that as a DNF. If I hike the 4 miles, do any kind of searching at all and come up empty then it gets logged as a DNF.

To me it seems counterproductive to log a DNF that you haven't actually been at the location of the cache and looked for it. Cache owners and other cachers use DNF logs to judge if a cache is still there or not and how hard it is to find. If you log a DNF that says: "Parked in the parking lot, was raining too hard, didn't want to get wet" how is that helpful to anyone but you? It can be misleading to someone who doesn't read the log, only glances at the DNF symbol.

My two cents.

----

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

2.6k · January 31, 2003

Good point.

quote:
Originally posted by Gloom:
To me it seems counterproductive to log a DNF that you haven't actually been at the location of the cache and looked for it. Cache owners and other cachers use DNF logs to judge if a cache is still there or not and how hard it is to find. If you log a DNF that says: "Parked in the parking lot, was raining too hard, didn't want to get wet" how is that helpful to anyone but you? It can be misleading to someone who doesn't read the log, only glances at the DNF symbol.

Additionally, irrelevant DNF logs can push other logs off the page. When you print out a cache page with logs or you use P-Queries there are only five logs on the cache page. There could be important info or adjusted coords in a log that falls off the page.

A DNF log is an important tool for cache owners and seekers. When there is nothing to report, why report it?

Do not extend your expectations unto others, and you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

7.4k · January 31, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Gloom:

Well actually it does count against you. If you are one of the people who actually track your standings on the stats page a DNF will negate one of your founds.

That's not correct. Provided you are talking about Dan's stats page at insidecorner.com, a DNF has no impact on your score.

quote:
Originally posted by Gloom:

To me it seems counterproductive to log a DNF that you haven't actually been at the location of the cache and looked for it. Cache owners and other cachers use DNF logs to judge if a cache is still there or not and how hard it is to find.

I completely agree! I've really noticed how problematic "unnecessary" logs are on cache pages since I've completely moved over to using GPX Pocket Queries. As leatherman says, these superfluous logs only serve to push informative ones out of the Query.

January 31, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:
That's not correct. Provided you are talking about Dan's stats page at insidecorner.com, a DNF has no impact on your score.

I stand corrected. It's been a long time since I've even looked at Dan's page and last time I did I thought that it listed my 'finds' as the number of actual finds I had minus the number of DNFs I logged. Could have just be coincidence.

----

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

1.8k · January 31, 2003

My general rule is that if I punch 'go to waypoint' on my GPS, then the hunt is going to either get a 'Found' or a 'Not Found' log. The only exception is when I'm searching for the a non-final step of a multicache.

Blocked by high water? Discovered the park was closed? Forgot the printout? Distracted by a playground? No boat? Disuaded by a crazy-man? I've used all of these as reasons for 'not founds.'

I also write up repeat visits and other stuff related to the specific caches as notes.

It never occurred to me that these would be harmful in that they pushed 'more useful' logs off the page.

Should I cut back?

"I'm sure she would have been thrilled to find so much pooh in a little metal box."

5.9k · January 31, 2003

Ohhhhh yeah, does TravisL ever write a log entry!

Those are exactly the logs I enjoy reading. TNLN is fine for days when you're punching a lot of tickets or simply have nothing to say. It gives you absolutely no feedback on how fun or dull your cache is.

Keep on writing.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

7.4k · January 31, 2003

I think that the guideline that Gloom gives in his post above is a good one - if the log helps the cache owner or hunters, then post it; if it doesn't, then don't.

Personally, I would leave DNFs for those instances when I searched for the cache at the cache site and failed to locate it. DNFs send the message that the cache could be missing. Posting one because you sprained your ankle on the way and had to turn around, while an interesting story, can give the wrong impression. I'd post those sorts of situations as notes.

Notes are then a somewhat different issue, and the only reason I can see avoiding posting them is the problem that they force other logs out of the Queries. I would hate to have any part of the story of a cache ignored simply because of a limitation of the technology, but maybe that is the right thing to do until the technology is improved. I know that I have already changed the way I do things to accomodate changes in the way people carry cache info with them (I now avoid using pictures as the sole hint, for example). The stories of your travails don't have to be lost, either; you can still include them in your final log.

January 31, 2003

I have to confess... I'm a DNF junkie. Ok, I'd like to think I'm a DNF connoisseur, but I'm really just a junkie. I love reading DNFs.

I love'em because they ALWAYS have a story. A regular log might say "Well, I found it in the last place I looked. TNLN, thanks for the fun hunt."

And a DNF might read

quote:
"I was trying to squeeze in one last cache before I had to jet off to pick up Greg from camp. I arrived at the parking with just a short time to find the cache. Walking toward the cache and reading the logs, I read LucyandRickie's log. I looked up just in time to have a forceful encounter with the hazard they mention. Ouch! I invented a couple of new words and used some of my older ones in some very witty and inventive new ways.

At the cache site, I looked and looked, but the brain cloud and the headache must have kept me from finding it. Alas, I ran out of time before I ran out of patience, and I had to leave before finding the cache.

At least I didn't clip my head again on the way out..."

Am I the only one who finds DNF logs to be considerably more entertaining on the average than the found logs? I guess it's just a personality defect on my part.

But truly, I consider the DNFs to be a part of the history of the cache, just as much as the found logs. I hate it when people delete their DNFs when they finally find the cache. I hate it when people don't log DNFs at all.

I think we should all wear our DNFs proudly, the way warriors of old bragged about their battle scars.

And I agree that it's a bummer that DNFs and notes scroll logs off (I use PQs too). But the solution to that is to have PQs include ALL the logs, not to change our logging behavior.

2.6k · January 31, 2003

Absolutely not.

quote:
Originally posted by Kodak's4:
Am I the only one who finds DNF logs to be considerably more entertaining on the average than the found logs? I guess it's just a personality defect on my part.

DNFs are much more informative than finds. I read them first.

Much like product user reviews on CNET. I only want to read the negative reviews. I want to know the problems others have experienced.

However logs about dead batteries or how it was to dark to search, do nothing but take up space. This kind of non-info can be Incorporated into the final Found log.

Do not extend your expectations unto others, and you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

January 31, 2003

Originally posted by travisl:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=35777 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=51545 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=35382 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=14088 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=20535 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=21888 I've used all of these as reasons for 'not founds.'

Should I cut back?

Whoo, hoo! No way, don't cut back. Those are some Grade A not found stories!

February 1, 2003

Personally, once I get to the general area of a cache site, and I still don't find the cache, then I always post a DNF.

On several occasions though, I've logged DNF's when I wasn't even close. Once in particular when I hiked up the wrong trail to the very end of the trail, and was still a couple miles from the cache. And on another occasion when I hiked up the wrong ridge (and trail), and found myself longingly staring across a deep valley to the cache location 0.6 miles away on the other side.

When I log these types of DNF's though, I'm fairly confident that at the least my logs are entertaining to many (and have been told as much), and at best are usefull to those who follow so that they don't make the same mistake I did.

I can say though, that I'm most annoyed with not getting DNF's on my own caches, since that's the only way I can know if the cache may be missing or not.

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

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February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bad Dog 1762:
I am finding that it is becoming more and more of a pet peeve that some individuals do not log DNF. For what reason would you not log a DNF? What it counts against you or something (said sarcastically!).

Apparently, many people don't log DNFs because they are afraid evil super geniuses will sneer at them if they do. Consider that many 'cachers have searched for this easy cache as well as this harder cache. The only sensible place to park for both of these is just a few yards away from my more difficult cache, Paradise Lost. It seems reasonable to conclude that the people who successfully searched for the easier caches probably tried to find the more difficult one just yards from the parking, does it not? Yet none of those people have logged DNFs.

I would just like to state for the record that not logging a DNF doesn't help. Dr. Koska still knows who searched but did not find, and he still laughs an evil laugh as he contemplates your miserable failure and utter humiliation. My evil henchmen are everywhere, so that I know all and see all! You can not hide!

-Dr. Ufo Koska

February 3, 2003

Perhaps, perhaps some do not log DNF's because they can no longer be found.

February 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

Personally, I would leave DNFs for those instances when I searched for the cache at the cache site and failed to locate it. DNFs send the message that the cache could be missing. Posting one because you sprained your ankle on the way and had to turn around, while an interesting story, can give the wrong impression. I'd post those sorts of situations as notes.

http://geocachingwa.org

I get what you are saying and once again I learned something. I posted a DNF last weekend. It wasn't that I was unable to find the cache, it was that I caused every dog in the neighborhood to go completely nuts. (There must have been about 12 dogs, mostly Pugs.) It was very uncomfortable, so the only thing I could think of was "RUN AWAY". My post was to alert others of the potential disturbance that might occur if you cache with a K-9. From here on out I'll post that type of problem using the notes option. Thanks Moun10Bike!

2.7k · February 15, 2003

I enjoy reading DNFs and agree with Kodak's4 that they tend to be informative. When I first started caching last year, I'd sometimes not log a DNF, but have come around. Now, if I just in the middle of a hunt...I'll just post a note stating some fact like I ran out of time or whatever.

2.6k · February 16, 2003

I see some people are leaning towards notes, and I'd like to reaffirm my point.

It does not matter whether you post a find, DNF, or a note. Your log pushes another log off the query page or the printer friendly page. If your note or DNF has no info in it, you maybe pushing a log that has important info or adjusted coords off the page.

If you have nothing more than "ran out of time" or "batteries died" why not comment about it in your found log. "I was here a couple of days ago, but I ran out of day light."

I'm not discouraging DNFs. Other cachers toils and torments hold important info.

Do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

February 16, 2003

I'm aware and conscientious of the problem with "useless" logs pushing useful logs off, but really how often does that happen compared with the number of times someone fails to post a log when they should have?

For example, say you visit the site, notice that the only road into the park is washed out with barricades in place and can't safely make it to the cache by hiking around. As I understand the guidelines of some of the users in this thread, they wouldn't log this on the cache page???? Or would they choose to post a Note rather than a DNF?

In my opinion, if you chose to post a Note instead of a DNF, I think that's perfectly fine, but I think it should be logged somehow or another. Odds are it will just push off the typical "Thanks for the cache, TNLN." anyway.

ICQ: 5563417

The Benefits of logging a DNF

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