Offshore caches

[+sloth96]

Howdy

 

Has anyone posted a cache in international waters? What country do you put and still be correct?

 

I looked through the list for international waters, high seas, and extra territorial waters. 

 

Thanks

[+NYPaddleCacher]

56 minutes ago, sloth96 said:

Howdy

 

Has anyone posted a cache in international waters? What country do you put and still be correct?

 

I looked through the list for international waters, high seas, and extra territorial waters. 

 

Thanks

The most offshore cache I know of is the Rainbow Hydrothermal Vents cache.  The closest land, and the country selected for it is Portugal.

 

Groundspeak has a controlled vocabulary of 248 countries/territories based upon the UN Geopolitical Ontology   Neither contains a region for international waters, high seas, or extra territorial waters.  Since you have to enter something for the Country when submitting a cache listing I'd just go with the nearest country (island or mainland).

[+sloth96]

30 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The most offshore cache I know of is the Rainbow Hydrothermal Vents cache.  The closest land, and the country selected for it is Portugal.

 

Groundspeak has a controlled vocabulary of 248 countries/territories based upon the UN Geopolitical Ontology   Neither contains a region for international waters, high seas, or extra territorial waters.  Since you have to enter something for the Country when submitting a cache listing I'd just go with the nearest country (island or mainland).

Can it be deleted later so as to not mess up stats?

[+Michaelcycle]

This question caused to wonder about that other  International Cache  GC1BE91

 

It is listed as being in Kazakhstan

[+hzoi]

3 hours ago, sloth96 said:

Has anyone posted a cache in international waters? What country do you put and still be correct?

 

Huzzah!  My international law nerd side gets to come play for a bit.

 

To be truly in international waters, and not within a given country's Exclusive Economic Zone under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, a geocache would have to be over 200 nautical miles from the nearest land and not located on a claimed continental shelf.  (Though there are currently three areas on the globe that are defined as terra nullius, I am unaware of any oceanic island outside of Antarctica that is not claimed by at least one country, and by having a "country" for Antarctica, Groundspeak has avoided the issue of "which country is this" for any Antarctic cache.)

 

GCG822 looks to be juuuuuuust outside Portugal's 200 nm EEZ  that projects out from the Azores.  However, Portugal has submitted a continental shelf claim that covers GCG822.  Though Spain disputes the southeastern portion of this, the Rainbow Hydrothermal Vents don't appear to be in the disputed portion - so I'd say putting this in the Azores, Portugal, seems the right call.  Portugal seems to have the best claim to it.

 

If GC2BE9D was a legit geocache, its present physical location would put it well outside of the United States EEZ.  But it's not, so it ain't.

 

Pretty much every other legit geocache I'm tracking appears to be well within the 200 nm EEZ of at least one country (other than Antarctic geocaches, which again are typically considered their own country).  And this makes sense: geocaches have to have a fixed location, so they have to either be on land or tethered to it.  Anything that's not part of a continental shelf is either going to be very, very deep, or floating.

Edited May 8, 2018 by hzoi

[+Viajero Perdido]

Null Island really needs a virtual.

 

Heck, it looks like it could even host a magnetic keyholder, if the CO-to-be could arrange an actual visit.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

4 hours ago, sloth96 said:

Can it be deleted later so as to not mess up stats?

As far as I know, one can not remove the country.   I suspect that Lord British chose Kazakhstan for the the country for the ISS cache because when it was published there were no caches in Kazakhstan and he had to enter something for the required field.  

 

I would consider the ISS cache and the Rainbow Hydrothermal Vents caches to be novelties rather than a cache that should be used as an example for how one can create a cache.  Although they're active, the listings are locked to prevent any logging.   They're not that dissimilar to the test cache listing also mentioned.  

[Keystone]

The Baikonur Cosmodrome is located in Kazakhstan.  After the end of the USA Space Shuttle program, the only way for a human to gain access to GC1BE91 is via Kazakhstan.

[+The A-Team]

5 minutes ago, Keystone said:

The Baikonur Cosmodrome is located in Kazakhstan.  After the end of the USA Space Shuttle program, the only way for a human to gain access to GC1BE91 is via Kazakhstan.

...and even before the STS was retired, private citizens could only get to space on board a Soyuz launching from Baikonur. The one exception was Christa McAuliffe on board Challenger's last flight, launched from Florida, but we all know how that went.

[+The A-Team]

4 hours ago, sloth96 said:

Can it be deleted later so as to not mess up stats?

Having an empty "Country" field would probably mess up stats even more.

 

Do you have an idea for a location outside of any country's territorial waters that would still fit the guidelines, or is it a theoretical question?

[+hzoi]

2 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

Null Island really needs a virtual.

 

Heck, it looks like it could even host a magnetic keyholder, if the CO-to-be could arrange an actual visit.

 

Given the five mile exclusion zone around it, I'd say landowner (or buoy owner) permission would be tough.

 

Quote

There is a five nautical mile exclusion zone around the buoy, so it is only possible for passengers on passing boats to view it from a distance.

 

Looks like this is about as close as you can legally get.

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by hzoi

[+terratin]

17 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

Null Island really needs a virtual.

 

Heck, it looks like it could even host a magnetic keyholder, if the CO-to-be could arrange an actual visit.

 

How would you convince the reviewer you have a maintenance plan? And whom would you ask for placement permission?

[Keystone]

2 hours ago, terratin said:

 

How would you convince the reviewer you have a maintenance plan? 

PayPal.

 

Quote

And whom would you ask for placement permission?

Neptune.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

19 hours ago, Keystone said:

The Baikonur Cosmodrome is located in Kazakhstan.  After the end of the USA Space Shuttle program, the only way for a human to gain access to GC1BE91 is via Kazakhstan.

 

Ah, so that would seem to be a good choice for the country on the ISS cache as it may have been the location where LB started before  the cache was placed.  it would be anyones guess though where the ISS was when the container was actually dropped.

 

Seems to me that Lord British chose the best option for select a country and is what one might do for placing an offshore cache in international waters.  

[+sloth96]

On 5/8/2018 at 3:47 PM, The A-Team said:

Having an empty "Country" field would probably mess up stats even more.

 

Do you have an idea for a location outside of any country's territorial waters that would still fit the guidelines, or is it a theoretical question?

The main thought is to be a event or earthcache.  And yes, there are geological features under water that make them interesting.

[+sloth96]

On 5/9/2018 at 7:21 AM, terratin said:

 

How would you convince the reviewer you have a maintenance plan? And whom would you ask for placement permission?

If an earthcache or event, the maintenance plan would be minimal. 

 

As for permissions, UN Conventions of Law of the Sea states pretty clearly what is outside the territorial reach.

[+sloth96]

On 5/9/2018 at 11:15 AM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Ah, so that would seem to be a good choice for the country on the ISS cache as it may have been the location where LB started before  the cache was placed.  it would be anyones guess though where the ISS was when the container was actually dropped.

 

Seems to me that Lord British chose the best option for select a country and is what one might do for placing an offshore cache in international waters.  

International Space Law makes space objects the responsibility of the nation they are launched by. So Russian satellite, Russian territory.  Things get more interesting when one country owns it and it is launched from the territory of another country.  Some ESA launches fall into this category. As do some US based launches including ones by NASA, SpaceX, and others.

[+hzoi]

12 hours ago, sloth96 said:

On 5/9/2018 at 7:21 AM, terratin said:

 

How would you convince the reviewer you have a maintenance plan? And whom would you ask for placement permission?

If an earthcache or event, the maintenance plan would be minimal. 

 

As for permissions, UN Conventions of Law of the Sea states pretty clearly what is outside the territorial reach.

 

True.  However, the earthcache rules require you to have visited the spot recently, so you need to be able to satisfy that requirement.  (Pics or it didn't happen.)