+bigjim4life Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Let me start off by saying that I have certain issues with social anxiety. I do a lot better with certain things, especially with strangers, in a non-face-to-face environment (i.e. Facebook or the interwebs). Certain people that I know and am friends with, things are a lot easier in person - but if I've never met a person, or I have to interact with a person that I've never met before, then I tend to chicken out, or get incredibly awkward and nervous. Which brings me to my point... If I want to place a cache somewhere and need to get permission from a property owner, (especially a business owner) - if that business owner is on Facebook/the web and has an email address - do you think the chances are equal that they'd grant permission to have a cache hidden there, if the request comes in via email vs in person? Or is it preferred to do it in person every time? Secondly, regardless of whether it's via email/Facebook or in person - what do CO's and potential CO's say, that have the best results both explaining what geocaching is and how/why you want to hide a cache at that particular location? I sent a pair of really long emails to a pair of places, and got one back as denied (still waiting to hear from the other place) - and I'm not sure if I want to continue that route, or if I should suck it up, deal with my demons, and try to do it in person? Help here with both items is tremendously appreciated!! Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, bigjim4life said: I sent a pair of really long emails to a pair of places, and got one back as denied (still waiting to hear from the other place) - and I'm not sure if I want to continue that route, or if I should suck it up, deal with my demons, and try to do it in person? Help here with both items is tremendously appreciated!! Nothing works better than asking in person, face to face. Really long emails asking for permission may not get the same response. Just my opinion from my experiences of asking and being asked permission. Emails often go ignored, and most often are declined. 2 Quote Link to comment
+bigjim4life Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Manville Possum said: Nothing works better than asking in person, face to face. Really long emails asking for permission may not get the same response. Just my opinion from my experiences of asking and being asked permission. Emails often go ignored, and most often are declined. So then what do you say to someone who has never heard of Geocaching? Do you go into some long-winded explanation of it, or do you say something short and sweet to the point (and then go into more detail if they seem interested)? Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, bigjim4life said: So then what do you say to someone who has never heard of Geocaching? Do you go into some long-winded explanation of it, or do you say something short and sweet to the point (and then go into more detail if they seem interested)? I'm always to the point, and I understand it's difficult to explain geocaching to someone that has never heard of. I have asked people like park rangers, land managers, city mayors, and our local sheriff. I would start off the conversation by asking if they know anything about GPS, then attempt to explain geocaching from that angle. Again, this is my experience, not my advice to you. Edited November 2, 2017 by Manville Possum Quote Link to comment
+justintim1999 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 First keep in mind that the worst that can happen is they say no. I'd start with something like. "Hi, my name is...... and I'm a geocacher. I was wondering if you'd allow me to place a geocache in or near your establishment?" After that just go with the flow. I'm sure they'll have questions. Simply answer them honestly. What most land or property owners want to know is (1) a brief description of what geocaching is. (2) What are you planning on hiding and exactly where. (3) A guarantee that you'll be around if there's any issues. I usually bring a screen shot of a search page to show them just how many geocaches are in the area. I'll also print off a section of a cache page (one that has some positive logs) and show it to them. If possible bring the container you intend to use and explain what will be inside. Have some stuff available to show them if they seem interested. With any luck they'll already know something about geocaching and be receptive to the idea. I know this will be tough for you but if your passionate about hiding a cache and you like the location, it's worth the effort. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck. Quote Link to comment
+fbingha Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 My experience is that if the only viable way to contact is via email then email is much more likely to get a response. If there are other ways to contact, then you will have better luck using those, either phone calls or face to face. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 We've asked for permission "face-to-face" with every cache we've placed, even one where some thought it was a given (at the time, it wasn't...). Some took us months to get approval ( with local govt.. meetings), Today, some landowners that we're now friends with have given us a go-ahead, realizing our placements and containers are in line with their placement policy. Most didn't have a placement policy until we introduced ourselves, and some didn't like the hobby when they found caches placed there without permission. I just don't feel you get the same attention, or maybe come to an agreeable solution to issues, by one simply skimming their emails, not looking you in the eye. Heading to an office with one of the many Geocaching brochures available (google 'em) may help with explaining the hobby too. 1 Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 25 minutes ago, bigjim4life said: 1 hour ago, Manville Possum said: Nothing works better than asking in person, face to face. Really long emails asking for permission may not get the same response. Just my opinion from my experiences of asking and being asked permission. Emails often go ignored, and most often are declined. So then what do you say to someone who has never heard of Geocaching? Do you go into some long-winded explanation of it, or do you say something short and sweet to the point (and then go into more detail if they seem interested)? Something that may help is the "What is Geocaching?" brochures available on the Geocaching.com site (such as this one: https://www.geocaching.com/articles/Brochures/EN/EN_Geocaching_BROCHURE_online_color.pdf ) Although that one isn't specifically targeted towards a land manager (may there should be different versions of the brochure: one for beginners, another for handing to land managers, LEOs, etc). It may look more "official" than a long winded explanation. The game doesn't have to be explained in great detail but there are certain concepts that you'll want to get across. The explanation should convey that geocaching is an activity, often played by families (suggesting that it's innocuous and not some covert activity where players are trying to hide what they're doing). An explanation should address concerns a land manager might have about environmental impact (perhaps specifically mentioned that CITO events are frequently held to clean up areas in need of it), that the game has a set of basic guidelines which include a "no buried caches" clause, prohibits placing "dangerous" or illegal objects in geocaches, and an adherence to allow local laws and obeying posted signs. 1 Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, cerberus1 said: We've asked for permission "face-to-face" with every cache we've placed, even one where some thought it was a given (at the time, it wasn't...). Some took us months to get approval ( with local govt.. meetings) I went back and forth via email and face to face for over 5 years with the State of Tennessee. It paid off. We got to place a cache that was constantly muggled. Quote Link to comment
+hzoi Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I usually at least call, if not set up a meeting in person. But since I have to document permission for earthcaches, I always follow up via email, using this standard format. I think I've made a few changes to the text since then, but overall I follow the same general theme. Quote Link to comment
+bigjim4life Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 4 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said: Something that may help is the "What is Geocaching?" brochures available on the Geocaching.com site (such as this one: https://www.geocaching.com/articles/Brochures/EN/EN_Geocaching_BROCHURE_online_color.pdf ) Since the brochure has been brought up - I've tried to print it out - and yet I keep getting what you see attached - any thoughts? Normally I'm pretty good with tech stuff, but this is just weird... Quote Link to comment
+hzoi Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 46 minutes ago, bigjim4life said: Since the brochure has been brought up - I've tried to print it out - and yet I keep getting what you see attached - any thoughts? Normally I'm pretty good with tech stuff, but this is just weird... I'm guessing it uses a font that's not installed on your system. I'm not Adobe literate enough to propose a fix, sorry. Quote Link to comment
+justintim1999 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, bigjim4life said: Since the brochure has been brought up - I've tried to print it out - and yet I keep getting what you see attached - any thoughts? Normally I'm pretty good with tech stuff, but this is just weird... Send Me an e-mail and I'll send back the pdf file. Quote Link to comment
+bigjim4life Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 16 hours ago, hzoi said: I'm guessing it uses a font that's not installed on your system. I'm not Adobe literate enough to propose a fix, sorry. Sure enough, you were right. I printed a copy out at home and everything was perfectly fine. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
+Mockingbird559 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 I made up a picture/story book (called Geobinder) in Microsoft Publisher to show property owners about the game and how it works. Have only used it a couple of times but it has helped. Most of my placed with permission caches are with property owners that I already know and who already had trust in me. (key point:advance trust) I have used an introduction from a third person which is almost as good. I usually start with...Hi Bob...I have something for you that is easy, fun and free. Almost everyone says "I like free". I tell them about the game, show the "geobinder" and lay out what I want to do. I tell then I want them to be able to play the game too, by watching us in our goof. Only been refused twice…for caches on large parcel private property. In both cases, the wife said yes, but the husbands said, "I don't want people messing around in my stuff" (even though the cache would not have been near any "stuff"). No point in pursuing that so I let it go. I also give the property owner a printout of the cache page from the beginning, and log printouts every few months to keep their interest up. For me these hides usually involve custom made containers which can take a while to make. Maybe take a nice sample container to do show and tell. I am working on doing a hide at three properties owned by a woman I have never met, introduced by a third person. Going to take a while…I broke my arm and she is on a cruise. cache happy mb559 Quote Link to comment
+nutlady Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 4 hours ago, Mockingbird559 said: I made up a picture/story book (called Geobinder) in Microsoft Publisher to show property owners about the game and how it works. Have only used it a couple of times but it has helped. Most of my placed with permission caches are with property owners that I already know and who already had trust in me. (key point:advance trust) I have used an introduction from a third person which is almost as good. I usually start with...Hi Bob...I have something for you that is easy, fun and free. Almost everyone says "I like free". I tell them about the game, show the "geobinder" and lay out what I want to do. I tell then I want them to be able to play the game too, by watching us in our goof. Only been refused twice…for caches on large parcel private property. In both cases, the wife said yes, but the husbands said, "I don't want people messing around in my stuff" (even though the cache would not have been near any "stuff"). No point in pursuing that so I let it go. I also give the property owner a printout of the cache page from the beginning, and log printouts every few months to keep their interest up. For me these hides usually involve custom made containers which can take a while to make. Maybe take a nice sample container to do show and tell. I am working on doing a hide at three properties owned by a woman I have never met, introduced by a third person. Going to take a while…I broke my arm and she is on a cruise. cache happy mb559 Ohhh I want one of these pretty please:-) The geobinder, that is! I have several caches hid on business owners property.....and have gotten super lucky that they all thought it sounded like fun. Especially when I tell them they get to watch, lol. Usually, however, by a security camera. Which is a great deterrent, BTW to put on the cache description page, and help the business owner feel secure. ( Note to self...need to add this little tidbit to some cache pages!) I also assure the owners that we are "respectful" people, just playing a game, and if for any reason there is a problem, I will remove the cache. So far, no problems whatsoever, knock on wood. I always let the business owner know what I am planning to do, because each container is custom made, as you stated, some have said I can do "whatever"....but in a few cases, I have sent pictures of the cache as I make it, and always show them the cache before it is placed, and meet and discuss with them in person where it is acceptable to place the cache....no surprises. The last one that I placed, was at a very trendy, popular local restaurant. So, I made the cache to "fit in".....and it actually looks like part of the decor.....the owner loved it so much, he asked if he could post pictures on his website:-) And I also ask that the employees know about the cache so no one freaks out, and finally,. I thank the business owners in my description, usually, and send emails of the found logs if they want to read them. I keep them " in the loop". Quote Link to comment
+bigjim4life Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 In my specific instance, I'm looking at a couple of businesses - i.e. a gas station, or a hardware store, etc. - within view of a railroad crossing or railroad tracks. I'd ideally hide it in said building's parking lot or shrubbery/tree (at least 50 feet or whichever the rules are) from the tracks. So I wouldn't have the same familiarity as some of you describe with said owners. Would I just go in and ask for a manager, in this case? Or just quietly hide an LPC or shrubbery micro? Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 43 minutes ago, bigjim4life said: In my specific instance, I'm looking at a couple of businesses - i.e. a gas station, or a hardware store, etc. - within view of a railroad crossing or railroad tracks. I'd ideally hide it in said building's parking lot or shrubbery/tree (at least 50 feet or whichever the rules are) from the tracks. So I wouldn't have the same familiarity as some of you describe with said owners. Would I just go in and ask for a manager, in this case? Or just quietly hide an LPC or shrubbery micro? I'd talk to a manager, and be sure that others will be aware as well. If you want to fib on your cache, clicking the box that says you got permission to hide, that's kinda up to you. Not having permission, don't be upset if issues with the landowners (or the police) were to happen, not to mention the way you've now presented yourself to your Reviewer ("fool me once...") and your fellow members. My biggest concern may be one of restricted areas (safety for others). Most I see are around 150 feet from a RR track, but have seen some exceptions. If in doubt, the Regional Geocaching Polices Wiki for your area might be helpful. Quote Link to comment
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