Orange Construction Fence

[+dprovan]

Couldn't disagree more. What makes you think you even have a choice here? The fence is a clear indication that the owner doesn't want anyone in the area. How can you interpret that as "I'll decide" whether or not to cross it?

No, I don't concede that the fence is a clear indication that the owner doesn't want anyone in the area. There are a million other possibilities, but just to give one concrete example that happened to me just yesterday: I was walking down a sidewalk. The sidewalk, while not closed, went into a construction area. Between the sidewalk and the street was a line of cones and caution tape, the equivalent of an orange fence. If I'd started on the other side of the street, I would have been blocked. But the cones were just guarding a trench from cars and had nothing to do with me on foot. But that line of cones was there, I was on the "wrong" side of it, so by your logic, I was automatically doing something I shouldn't be doing. But, in reality, it was a no-brainer that I could ignore the cones.

[+justintim1999]

Couldn't disagree more. What makes you think you even have a choice here? The fence is a clear indication that the owner doesn't want anyone in the area. How can you interpret that as "I'll decide" whether or not to cross it?

No, I don't concede that the fence is a clear indication that the owner doesn't want anyone in the area. There are a million other possibilities, but just to give one concrete example that happened to me just yesterday: I was walking down a sidewalk. The sidewalk, while not closed, went into a construction area. Between the sidewalk and the street was a line of cones and caution tape, the equivalent of an orange fence. If I'd started on the other side of the street, I would have been blocked. But the cones were just guarding a trench from cars and had nothing to do with me on foot. But that line of cones was there, I was on the "wrong" side of it, so by your logic, I was automatically doing something I shouldn't be doing. But, in reality, it was a no-brainer that I could ignore the cones.

 

To me an orange cone means use caution, a fence means keep out. What if it was clear that you had to cross "over" the fence to get to the cache? Would it still be cachers discretion?

Edited October 24, 2016 by justintim1999

[+TriciaG]

Last spring we were biking on a multi-use trail, a segment between two roads. When we got to the other end, it was orange-fenced! Oh, no! Thing is, the end we started on wasn't blocked, was in perfect shape where we entered it, and had no warning signs about what was ahead. So, which side of the fence were we not supposed to be on?

 

We decided we were on the wrong side of the fence, since the trail was rough/not well maintained on our side. So rather than backtrack a couple kms, we jumped the fence, hitched our bikes over, and continued on. *shrug*

 

Moral of the story: sometimes there ARE legitimate ways to end up on the "wrong" side of the fence.

Edited October 24, 2016 by TriciaG

[+bflentje]

What is it about geocaching that inspires this level of contempt and ingratitude for those who place caches at no cost to you?

 

This right here probably rates as the Quote of the Year..

 

It's ok to have an opinion. But incessant opinions over and over again from the usual suspects is all too tiring.

[+J Grouchy]

Last spring we were biking on a multi-use trail, a segment between two roads. When we got to the other end, it was orange-fenced! Oh, no! Thing is, the end we started on wasn't blocked, was in perfect shape where we entered it, and had no warning signs about what was ahead. So, which side of the fence were we not supposed to be on?

 

We decided we were on the wrong side of the fence, since the trail was rough/not well maintained on our side. So rather than backtrack a couple kms, we jumped the fence, hitched our bikes over, and continued on. *shrug*

 

Moral of the story: sometimes there ARE legitimate ways to end up on the "wrong" side of the fence.

 

Hehe...I've seen similar arrangements. On one occasion, I came across a roughly 20 foot long section of fencing that basically started in no particular spot and ended in no particular spot. It was basically just a straight line and impossible to tell what the intent behind it was. All there was to indicate any work having been done were a few very old bales of wheat straw sitting nearby.

So basically without a true context and without any knowledge of the area over the course of time, it's not always a simple matter.

 

Heck, on one cache, the coordinates put me right AT the orange fence line...so I had no real way of knowing, aside from other 'found it' logs, if it was inside or outside the fence line.

[+niraD]

Last spring we were biking on a multi-use trail, a segment between two roads. When we got to the other end, it was orange-fenced! Oh, no! Thing is, the end we started on wasn't blocked, was in perfect shape where we entered it, and had no warning signs about what was ahead. So, which side of the fence were we not supposed to be on?

Yeah, I've encountered similar situations a couple times. I found a cache in a public location, hiked down an established trail to the next cache, lather rinse repeat. A few caches down the road, the trail came to a locked gate with "keep out" signs on the other side, prohibiting access to the area we had just come from.

 

What's a geocacher to do?

[+dprovan]

To me an orange cone means use caution, a fence means keep out.

As I said, it was cones and caution tape, so a clear barrier one would have to iognore, although, admittedly, easier to get over than a fence.

 

What if it was clear that you had to cross "over" the fence to get to the cache? Would it still be cachers discretion?

The point is that you and I have far less information than the CO, so I'm OK letting him make the decision about whether seekers should be warned away. Dunno what "cacher's discretion" means in this context. It's always at the cacher's discretion. That doesn't mean it's safe or legal.

[+justintim1999]

To me an orange cone means use caution, a fence means keep out.

As I said, it was cones and caution tape, so a clear barrier one would have to iognore, although, admittedly, easier to get over than a fence.

 

What if it was clear that you had to cross "over" the fence to get to the cache? Would it still be cachers discretion?

The point is that you and I have far less information than the CO, so I'm OK letting him make the decision about whether seekers should be warned away. Dunno what "cacher's discretion" means in this context. It's always at the cacher's discretion. That doesn't mean it's safe or legal.

 

I understand that their are variables to every situation. I don't want anyone reading this thread to think that It's ok to bend the rules to find a geocache. Going 10 feet beyond a no trespassing sign is still trespassing. When in doubt walk away.

 

One smiley isn't worth the integrity of the game.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

One smiley isn't worth the integrity of the game.

 

^^^^This

 

[+dprovan]

I understand that their are variables to every situation. I don't want anyone reading this thread to think that It's ok to bend the rules to find a geocache. Going 10 feet beyond a no trespassing sign is still trespassing. When in doubt walk away.

Well, that's the problem with the thread: the OP gave his interpretation of the situation, then asked about his reaction and the CO's reaction. There's not enough on the table to talk about what's really going on, so a discussion of clear cut situations seems off the mark.

 

But, having said that, I've walked by a few "no trespassing" signs. Some were obviously obsolete, like the no trespassing sign on the fence right next to the "Welcome to Brand New Park!" sign. And some were put up to make people think they weren't allowed on trails that I knew for a fact were open to the public: you aren't allowed to put up fake no trespassing signs (in theory), but there's nothing about the law that prevents your legal no trespassing sign from being somewhat inaccurate about exactly what's being marked.

 

One smiley isn't worth the integrity of the game.

One smiley's not worth a thing. But you're pretending absolute dictums should define integrity over the practical evaluation of individual cases. I didn't walk past those trespassing signs because I thought the smiley was important. I walked past those signs because they were irrelevant. I would have walked past them whether there was a cache there to seek or not.

 

And, needless to say, if I get into trouble, I'm not going to blame it on the game. I'm responsible for my own decisions.

[+justintim1999]

I understand that their are variables to every situation. I don't want anyone reading this thread to think that It's ok to bend the rules to find a geocache. Going 10 feet beyond a no trespassing sign is still trespassing. When in doubt walk away.

Well, that's the problem with the thread: the OP gave his interpretation of the situation, then asked about his reaction and the CO's reaction. There's not enough on the table to talk about what's really going on, so a discussion of clear cut situations seems off the mark.

 

But, having said that, I've walked by a few "no trespassing" signs. Some were obviously obsolete, like the no trespassing sign on the fence right next to the "Welcome to Brand New Park!" sign. And some were put up to make people think they weren't allowed on trails that I knew for a fact were open to the public: you aren't allowed to put up fake no trespassing signs (in theory), but there's nothing about the law that prevents your legal no trespassing sign from being somewhat inaccurate about exactly what's being marked.

 

One smiley isn't worth the integrity of the game.

One smiley's not worth a thing. But you're pretending absolute dictums should define integrity over the practical evaluation of individual cases. I didn't walk past those trespassing signs because I thought the smiley was important. I walked past those signs because they were irrelevant. I would have walked past them whether there was a cache there to seek or not.

 

And, needless to say, if I get into trouble, I'm not going to blame it on the game. I'm responsible for my own decisions.

 

I'm glad you have the ability to determine which signs are legitimate and which ones are morally questionable. I on the other hand am not willing to make that decision and violate someone's personal property.

 

"When in doubt walk away". simple enough.

 

Regardless on whom you choose to blame, the fact that you were geocaching at the time sends the wrong message.

[+niraD]

"When in doubt walk away". simple enough.

Maybe there wasn't any doubt.

 

A while back, a local open space district actually asked geocachers and other hikers for help finding/removing the old "no trespassing" signs that remained. The property had been private, but had since been donated to the OSD. They had removed as many of the "no trespassing" signs as they could find, but they knew there were more. There was no doubt that the remaining signs were invalid.

 

There have also been cases where neighbors of public trailheads have posted "no trespassing" (and "resident parking only") signs. The trailheads are public spaces, providing access to public spaces, and they're signed as such. But because they're next to private residences, sometimes the neighbors get too possessive of "their" parks and trails. There was no doubt that those signs were invalid.

[+narcissa]

Maybe there wasn't any doubt.

 

A while back, a local open space district actually asked geocachers and other hikers for help finding/removing the old "no trespassing" signs that remained. The property had been private, but had since been donated to the OSD. They had removed as many of the "no trespassing" signs as they could find, but they knew there were more. There was no doubt that the remaining signs were invalid.

 

There have also been cases where neighbors of public trailheads have posted "no trespassing" (and "resident parking only") signs. The trailheads are public spaces, providing access to public spaces, and they're signed as such. But because they're next to private residences, sometimes the neighbors get too possessive of "their" parks and trails. There was no doubt that those signs were invalid.

 

So the moral of the story is to remove all doubt by checking with the land manager.

[+dprovan]

I'm glad you have the ability to determine which signs are legitimate and which ones are morally questionable.

Thank you. I'm sorry your don't.

 

I on the other hand am not willing to make that decision and violate someone's personal property.

That's fine with me, although one point here is that a "no trespassing" sign doesn't always accurately indicate personal property. But -- speaking of morals -- should I worry about the person that needs help who you ignore because they're behind some rusting "no trespassing" signs? Or will you concede that there are some cases where ignoring the sign is a valid decision?

 

Regardless on whom you choose to blame, the fact that you were geocaching at the time sends the wrong message.

There's no message because the fact that I was geocaching is irrelevant so it never comes up. Would "dog walking" be given a bad name if that's what I was doing at the time?

[+justintim1999]

I'm glad you have the ability to determine which signs are legitimate and which ones are morally questionable.

Thank you. I'm sorry your don't.

 

I on the other hand am not willing to make that decision and violate someone's personal property.

That's fine with me, although one point here is that a "no trespassing" sign doesn't always accurately indicate personal property. But -- speaking of morals -- should I worry about the person that needs help who you ignore because they're behind some rusting "no trespassing" signs? Or will you concede that there are some cases where ignoring the sign is a valid decision?

 

Regardless on whom you choose to blame, the fact that you were geocaching at the time sends the wrong message.

There's no message because the fact that I was geocaching is irrelevant so it never comes up. Would "dog walking" be given a bad name if that's what I was doing at the time?

 

When in doubt, walk away.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

One smiley isn't worth the integrity of the game.

One smiley's not worth a thing.

 

I think we'd discover just much worth they have if GS stopped counting them.

 

And, needless to say, if I get into trouble, I'm not going to blame it on the game. I'm responsible for my own decisions.

 

The issue isn't whether you'd blame it on the game. A problem may arise if a land manager discovers that people are entering an area that they've marked off to keep people from entering, then "blames it on the game" because the people ignoring the construction fence are geocachers.

 

As geocachers, we are all ambassadors for the game called geocaching, and if we do something that a land manager doesn't like, it reflects badly on the game.

 

 

 

[+justintim1999]

 

One smiley isn't worth the integrity of the game.

One smiley's not worth a thing.

 

I think we'd discover just much worth they have if GS stopped counting them.

 

And, needless to say, if I get into trouble, I'm not going to blame it on the game. I'm responsible for my own decisions.

 

The issue isn't whether you'd blame it on the game. A problem may arise if a land manager discovers that people are entering an area that they've marked off to keep people from entering, then "blames it on the game" because the people ignoring the construction fence are geocachers.

 

As geocachers, we are all ambassadors for the game called geocaching, and if we do something that a land manager doesn't like, it reflects badly on the game.

 

^^^^^^This

 

By all means use your best judgment but err on the side of caution.

[ohgood]

"When in doubt walk away". simple enough.

Maybe there wasn't any doubt.

 

A while back, a local open space district actually asked geocachers and other hikers for help finding/removing the old "no trespassing" signs that remained. The property had been private, but had since been donated to the OSD. They had removed as many of the "no trespassing" signs as they could find, but they knew there were more. There was no doubt that the remaining signs were invalid.

 

There have also been cases where neighbors of public trailheads have posted "no trespassing" (and "resident parking only") signs. The trailheads are public spaces, providing access to public spaces, and they're signed as such. But because they're next to private residences, sometimes the neighbors get too possessive of "their" parks and trails. There was no doubt that those signs were invalid.

 

yup, it happens everywhere. a lot !

[+dprovan]

When in doubt, walk away.

Will do. And when I'm not in doubt, I'll look for the cache.

 

The issue isn't whether you'd blame it on the game. A problem may arise if a land manager discovers that people are entering an area that they've marked off to keep people from entering, then "blames it on the game" because the people ignoring the construction fence are geocachers.

How would they know I was geocaching? Besides, in most cases the first think I realize is that there's zero chance I'll be detected to begin with.

[+justintim1999]

When in doubt, walk away.

Will do. And when I'm not in doubt, I'll look for the cache.

 

The issue isn't whether you'd blame it on the game. A problem may arise if a land manager discovers that people are entering an area that they've marked off to keep people from entering, then "blames it on the game" because the people ignoring the construction fence are geocachers.

How would they know I was geocaching? Besides, in most cases the first think I realize is that there's zero chance I'll be detected to begin with.

 

Fair enough. All I'm preaching here is personal responsibility and common sense.

 

Not being detected is a poor reason to violate private property.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

When in doubt, walk away.

Will do. And when I'm not in doubt, I'll look for the cache.

 

The issue isn't whether you'd blame it on the game. A problem may arise if a land manager discovers that people are entering an area that they've marked off to keep people from entering, then "blames it on the game" because the people ignoring the construction fence are geocachers.

How would they know I was geocaching? Besides, in most cases the first think I realize is that there's zero chance I'll be detected to begin with.

 

Zero chance? Perhaps they wondered what someone was doing on the other side of the fence (and may have seen other geocachers there), watched you find the cache, then went and found it after you left. That happened to me (except it wasn't a land manager...it was a plain clothed policeman) in Rome. I was questioned for about 15 minutes (in Italian, which I don't speak) before they determined that I wasn't breaking any laws.

 

 

[+dprovan]

Fair enough. All I'm preaching here is personal responsibility and common sense.

I'm in favor!

 

Zero chance?

Yep. I'm that good.

[ohgood]

Fair enough. All I'm preaching here is personal responsibility and common sense.

I'm in favor!

 

Zero chance?

Yep. I'm that good.

 

lol that's funny :-)

 

thanks to this thread passing an orange fence will bring a sneaky smile to my face.

 

has anyone posted a dead horse gif yet?

[+hzoi]

has anyone posted a dead horse gif yet?

I was thinking perhaps it's time to add an emoticon if Signal beating a horse to death. It would come in handy on the forums these days.

[+thebruce0]

Ah man, I was about to chime in, but the thread has already reached the dead horse beating stage.

[ohgood]

has anyone posted a dead horse gif yet?

I was thinking perhaps it's time to add an emoticon if Signal beating a horse to death. It would come in handy on the forums these days.

 

What if the horse or stick is wrapped in orange fence?

[+justintim1999]

has anyone posted a dead horse gif yet?

I was thinking perhaps it's time to add an emoticon if Signal beating a horse to death. It would come in handy on the forums these days.

 

What if the horse or stick is wrapped in orange fence?

 

What if we put the horse on the other side of the fence and you have to cross over the fence to beat it?

[+thebruce0]

If the horse is in tall grass and the orange fence is blocking one side so that the foliage doesn't grow past it and it remains a neat line, I'd just walk around the fence to beat the horse for a bit.

 

Now if the whole dead horse is engulfed by tall grass and entirely surrounded by orange fence, then that's a different matter.

Edited October 27, 2016 by thebruce0

[+justintim1999]

If the horse is in tall grass and the orange fence is blocking one side so that the foliage doesn't grow past it and it remains a neat line, I'd just walk around the fence to beat the horse for a bit.

 

Now if the whole dead horse is engulfed by tall grass and entirely surrounded by orange fence, then that's a different matter.

 

You may have to do a little mowing to find the horse or you could simply toss a grenade over the wall into the high grass and hope for the best.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

has anyone posted a dead horse gif yet?

I was thinking perhaps it's time to add an emoticon if Signal beating a horse to death. It would come in handy on the forums these days.

 

What if the horse or stick is wrapped in orange fence?

 

That, or just a dead horse, would probably be a justification for a Needs Maintenance log....or throwdown a live horse and log it as a find.

 

 

[+niraD]

If the horse is in tall grass and the orange fence is blocking one side so that the foliage doesn't grow past it and it remains a neat line, I'd just walk around the fence to beat the horse for a bit.

 

Now if the whole dead horse is engulfed by tall grass and entirely surrounded by orange fence, then that's a different matter.

You may have to do a little mowing to find the horse or you could simply toss a grenade over the wall into the high grass and hope for the best.

What if there is a Caterpillar®-brand hydraulic dead horse beater on site?

[+hzoi]

Y'all made me chuckle. Well done.

 

IBTL

[+dprovan]

I'm impressed with how quickly you guys beat "beat a dead horse" to death and then started beating it.

[+J Grouchy]

I'm disappointed that nobody posted this yet:

 

[+thebruce0]

Maybe someone did, but they posted it behind the orange fence so no one knew it was there since everyone felt guilty about going past it.

[+niraD]

I'm impressed with how quickly you guys beat "beat a dead horse" to death and then started beating it.

Michael Jackson would be proud...

[+justintim1999]

If the horse is in tall grass and the orange fence is blocking one side so that the foliage doesn't grow past it and it remains a neat line, I'd just walk around the fence to beat the horse for a bit.

 

Now if the whole dead horse is engulfed by tall grass and entirely surrounded by orange fence, then that's a different matter.

You may have to do a little mowing to find the horse or you could simply toss a grenade over the wall into the high grass and hope for the best.

What if there is a Caterpillar®-brand hydraulic dead horse beater on site?

 

You would need permission to use it but it would be handy. You could automatically beat the horse while looking for the cache at the same time.

[ohgood]

OK, this had crossed the orange fence three times and arrived at the hallowed fence of plaid. I'm not sure what to do with my automatic dead horse beating robot arm, my dead horse throw downs, or my secret decoder ring for the plaid fence. Are we supposed to automatically beat the orange horse as a distraction while giving the secret plaid handshake key card, or.... Did I already say to much and going to lose my plaid privileges?

 

First rule of Orange Fence club ?

 

I'm so confused!

Edited October 28, 2016 by ohgood

[ohgood]

If the horse is in tall grass and the orange fence is blocking one side so that the foliage doesn't grow past it and it remains a neat line, I'd just walk around the fence to beat the horse for a bit.

 

Now if the whole dead horse is engulfed by tall grass and entirely surrounded by orange fence, then that's a different matter.

You may have to do a little mowing to find the horse or you could simply toss a grenade over the wall into the high grass and hope for the best.

What if there is a Caterpillar®-brand hydraulic dead horse beater on site?

 

You would need permission to use it but it would be handy. You could automatically beat the horse while looking for the cache at the same time.

 

lol at all of this. :-)

[+thebruce0]

Orange Fence Wrapped Dead Horse Beater is so the name of my next band cache.

Edited October 28, 2016 by thebruce0

[ohgood]

Orange Fence Wrapped Dead Horse Beater is so the name of my next band cache.

 

Oh lol

[+zookeepertx]

OMG, I'm dying over here!!