Geocashing=fantastic, but please....no plastic!

[+JL_HSTRE]

Agreed, totally! In fact, an outer plastic bag is generally considered tacky, at best. If you need to do that, you picked a poor container to begin with.

 

The Guidelines should prohibit plastic bags for geocaching containers, or to wrap them. I think we can all agree they are unnecessary and environmentally unsafe on a cache - yes, worse than film cans.

 

That said, a good plastic container like a lock-n-lock (latched Tupperware) or preform (hard plastic tube with screwtop) are two of the best and most durable cache containers out there. Depending on the environmental conditions (such as proximity to the salty ocean air) plastic containers are superior to the overall best container, the metal ammo can.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Joshism

[Pup Patrol]

http://www.geocachingireland.com/?page_id=145

 

How do I obtain permission to place a cache?

 

Unravelling land holdings in Ireland is a complicated business. Traditional patterns of ownership and disposal (some dating back for hundreds of years) mean that there can be many layers of freehold, long leases, short leases, sub-lettings, divisions, sub-sub-lettings and annual grazing rights. Here’s a few tips (based on bitter experience) for how to go about getting permission to place a cache.

 

In regards to the placement of Geocaches on Coillte owned land, Collite have agreed to the placement of Geocaces on Collite land provided that the Leave No Trace principles are followed. For more information, see the Geocaching Guidelines.

 

Be professional when approaching land owners. Print off all the helpful documents from the Geocaching website, and bring a sample Geocache. Explain the Leave No Trace principals, and if you are meeting Councils, explain the benefits of Geo Tourism. Give GC43, Europe’s First as an example of Geo Tourism. An amazing amount of people travel to Ireland specifically to find the first Geocache placed in Europe, GC43 located on Bray Head, Co Wicklow.

 

National Trust & geocaching

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/activities/geo-caching/

 

Looking to turn your walk into a real adventure? Try one of our high-tech treasure hunts.

 

We’ve teamed up with experts Garmin, to introduce more people to the fun of geocaching. Many of our places have Garmin GPS devices available for you to try geocaching for free.

 

 

B.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Pup Patrol

[knowschad]

I am unclear why someone is posting about plastic containers and yet has ZERO finds on their profile? Is it a busy cacher who wants to remain anonymous so they created a new account? Is it someone who just likes to troll the internet and cause trouble? As far as how much damage is being done to the environment by plastic geocaching containers, it would probably rate somewhere between the damage done by flea farts and the damage done by butterfly burps!

 

I am guessing it is somebody that knows about geocaching and cares about the environment and the world around her and has come here to ask us to be careful. I find your post to be very rude to a caring newcomer. Please be polite. Would you treat a guest in your house like that?

 

Oh thank you, that's a lovely way to put it. And in a nutshell too.

 

Im not here to find fault with the activiity, in fact I think it's a great idea. I just have one little concern and rather than over react I thought I would voice it here first to give anyone who wants to respond the opportunity to respond....and take it from there.

 

Yes, I sense that. And you have been more than polite despite some very rude responses. Thanks for taking the high road, and I hope the moderators spot this thread soon and start to rap a few knuckles.

 

May I ask how you learned about geocaching and what brought your attention to this issue?

 

I think this thread is the definition of overreaction by the OP, don't know why you are buttressing him/her up.

 

 

 

I am unclear why someone is posting about plastic containers and yet has ZERO finds on their profile? Is it a busy cacher who wants to remain anonymous so they created a new account? Is it someone who just likes to troll the internet and cause trouble? As far as how much damage is being done to the environment by plastic geocaching containers, it would probably rate somewhere between the damage done by flea farts and the damage done by butterfly burps!

 

Speaking from personal experience, if you suspect someone is trolling, it is best to report it and allow the mods to figure it out.

 

Trolling was my impression early on and either knowschad is doing a major league troll of the troller or.......I'm not gonna finish this sentence.

 

I am buttressing a guest to our forums, Roman! Something that I think you and a few others here would do well to consider.

[knowschad]

Can anyone post some gallery pictures of existing caches in West Ireland so we can see what the OP is concerned about?

 

It is always good to have a discussion about appropriate containers and hear facts about potential environmental impacts. However, a solid plastic, waterproof BOX, which has not been used for food, is an extremely low-risk container. With regular maintenance checkups and some education in the community about appropriate swag (ie: no candy or anything scented), there should be no harm to the creatures in that environment.

 

It might be useful to consider what type of animals live near a cache location and whether they might be drawn to certain elements of a container. I believe there was a discussion a while back about some rodents likino the adhesive on the camo duct tape sometimes used to wrap containers.

 

We should also be aware of touching a container and its contents with trail-mix and granola bar sticky fingers!

 

Here is a cache in Western Ireland, on the coast, with the old cache wrapped in a plastic bag. No way of knowing if it was hidden with that plastic bag (doubtful) or if that is a plastic trash bag the finder brought with them to put the old cache in to take it home (more likely)

 

http://coord.info/GLA43E9

 

 

Here's another Lock 'n Lock (used primarily because of their durability)

http://coord.info/GL3HJWM3

Edited April 15, 2015 by knowschad

[Pup Patrol]

 

Here is a cache in Western Ireland, on the coast, with the old cache wrapped in a plastic bag. No way of knowing if it was hidden with that plastic bag (doubtful) or if that is a plastic trash bag the finder brought with them to put the old cache in to take it home (more likely)

 

http://coord.info/GLA43E9

 

 

A lot of preparation went into that cache hunt. Part of that preparation was to deal with the destroyed cache.

 

It's quite the read. Completely contrary to all the moaning and groaning here about "tftc" logs.

 

This is just a wee snippet of the log:

 

Once opened, I found that Bootle was right: this cache was destroyed. The heavy stones had crumpled the box lid, everything (including the TB) was covered in rusty, evil-smelling goo.

 

I was prepared for this and had brought a new, fully-prepared cache as a replacement. Not wanting to litter the place, I put the old log book and all the stuff in a large ziploc and took it away, the old box tied on to my rucksack.

 

The new cache is smaller: 16x16x10cm, and has a waterproof log book and some decent swaps. It is now only necessary to move one stone, to find the cache.

 

B.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Pup Patrol

[+narcissa]

plastics are being deposited in locations it's never been seen in before

 

Please give an example of a place - any place in the world where geocachers could possibly place a cache - where plastic has never been seen before.

The more remote inland parts of Antarctica? Or did the penguins take it there from the crowded parts?

 

{Yes, it's been a long day!}

 

I would expect to find traces of plastic there. Once it breaks down, it's quite persistent in the environment and gets carried around the globe in any number of ways, even to the most remote environments on earth.

 

Anyone who thinks they can find a pristine, plastic-free environment has no idea what they are talking about. Picking on geocachers is just an easy way for these slacktivists to feel good about themselves.

[Keystone]

Guys, seriously, we can have a discussion about the environmental impact of containers. Even if you think the OP is a troll, it's still a valid discussion.

 

Those who feel there is trolling going on, you are welcome to ignore or bow out. Those who are interested in the discussion can continue on topic.

This is good advice, so let's all follow it.

 

I see no cause for labeling the OP as anything other than a person who happened across our hobby and wanted to discuss concerns. Replies like the ones quoting the UK/Ireland guidance for cache placements are helpful; replies expressing opinions about containers are fine. Replies directed towards persons rather than ideas are not welcome and are subject to being removed from view and/or other arrows in the moderator quiver.

 

Thank you.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Keystone

[+Maingray]

Very valid discussion. I remember caching in the UK a few years ago and being amazed by the numbers of caches in ratty tatty plastic bags.

[+Michaelcycle]

Guys, seriously, we can have a discussion about the environmental impact of containers. Even if you think the OP is a troll, it's still a valid discussion.

 

Those who feel there is trolling going on, you are welcome to ignore or bow out. Those who are interested in the discussion can continue on topic.

This is good advice, so let's all follow it.

 

I see no cause for labeling the OP as anything other than a person who happened across our hobby and wanted to discuss concerns. Replies like the ones quoting the UK/Ireland guidance for cache placements are helpful; replies expressing opinions about containers are fine. Replies directed towards persons rather than ideas are not welcome and are subject to being removed from view and/or other arrows in the moderator quiver.

 

Thank you.

 

The OP has essentially erased the initial post in this thread making it impossible for someone reading this thread from the beginning to make real sense of the discussion.

Probably too hard to implement but it would be nice if the initial post in a thread could only be addended, not amended, once it has been replied to.

[Keystone]

The substantive part of the Opening Post has been preserved in other posts which quoted it. For convenience, here it is again:

Geocaching is a fantastic idea, and CITO also, but what's the point of Geocashing if it means plastics are being deposited in locations it's never been seen in before, and CITO is a great initiative also....but what if the CI is plastic, and ends up being lost or forgotten about...and ends up being blown/dragged or pulled into the surrounding area....and then I (and a few of the locals) end up having to go and try to retrieve it - or worse, a wild animal finds it, manages to chew it's way into it and chokes, or worse gets impaled on a badge pin and dies a very slow agonised death??!!

[+Colonial Cats]

Deleted Was meant for the site admin.

 

Only a fool would have read that as being indicative of my being a troll.

I am sorry you feel this way, but look at the circumstances of your posting. You signed up for an account yesterday. You have no finds or hides. You immediately started a thread complaining about the use of plastics in the wild. Since the use of plastic containers is one of the preferred methods of hiding caches, your vague initial post naturally caused an uproar. It wasn't until a long series of posting later that we finally figured out you were talking about plastic bags. So now you have edited your first post so much no one will ever figure out what was asked about in the first place.

 

Now I am not calling you a troll, however the way that this thread came about and with your now changed first post, you should understand why some of the posters might think you are a troll. The last straw is to call us fools. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and do not think you are a troll. But if you step back and take a fresh look at this thread, you should see that if a troll wanted to stir things up, this would be the way to do it.

 

Just a piece of advice for future posting. Be clear on what you are talking about and do not call others fools.

 

By the way, welcome to geocaching. it is a fun activity and most of the other cachers are great! Please read the guides available for beginners and find the cachers in your area to cache with. Please get some finds under your belt before you place one yourself. Enjoy, and I hope to meet you on the trails.

[+BCandMsKitty]

Whoseyerwan, I feel compelled to try to apologize for some of the rude, uncalled for for comments and post to this thread. Although I haven't commented to now, being part of the geocaching community, I find it embarrassing to be associated with some of the people who have decided to reply to your thread in the way they have. Some people just can't help trying to make up for shortcomings in other areas, by criticizing and name-calling. Believe me, not all geocachers are like that!

While all might not completely agree with you, it is certainly our responsibility to try to be as environmentally responsible as we can be!

Since you aren't a geocacher, you might not be aware of our concerns regarding cache containers, but it certainly is your right to comment on materials used to hide them.

 

I haven't posted up to now, but have been following the discussion. Please ignore the spiteful people that have posted in this thread and let the dialogue continue .. hopefully without any more rudeness.

[+Colonial Cats]

Thanks, Keystone, for preserving what the first posting said. I didn't see this post when I made my last post.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Colonial Cats

[Whoseyerwan]

Guys, seriously, we can have a discussion about the environmental impact of containers. Even if you think the OP is a troll, it's still a valid discussion.

 

Those who feel there is trolling going on, you are welcome to ignore or bow out. Those who are interested in the discussion can continue on topic.

This is good advice, so let's all follow it.

 

I see no cause for labeling the OP as anything other than a person who happened across our hobby and wanted to discuss concerns. Replies like the ones quoting the UK/Ireland guidance for cache placements are helpful; replies expressing opinions about containers are fine. Replies directed towards persons rather than ideas are not welcome and are subject to being removed from view and/or other arrows in the moderator quiver.

 

Thank you.

 

The OP has essentially erased the initial post in this thread making it impossible for someone reading this thread from the beginning to make real sense of the discussion.

Probably too hard to implement but it would be nice if the initial post in a thread could only be addended, not amended, once it has been replied to.

 

I am truly sorry about that, it wasn't my intention to remove the original message. I was very tired, rather upset and in a hurry to get to work. I thought I was deleting the silly post that was misconstrued by someone (or more than one if memory serves) and used to tout me as being a troll, but if your post is anything to go by it seems I must have deleted the wrong one. Anyway, I will see if I can find the link to the site administrators and ask if they might have a cached copy (no pun intended lol) that they can re-post for me.

 

I cannot believe the number of replies to my message, so apologies in advance if I haven't answered somebody's question yet. I have seen so many questions, and I have also scan read many good points also,that I would love to discuss. I think this could be an interesting topic, whereas up until now it was more a worry for me more than anything..so I hope at least the genuinely interested don't write me off, and being the eternal optomist even the nay-sayers might become interested. Here's hoping anyway

 

Now, hope this message posts for me.This is my 2nd (3rd even) attempt at trying to answer you. Laptop is senstive to the slightest touch, and is doing all sorts of crazy stuff on me. dadgum thing is doing my head in here

[Keystone]

Anyway, I will see if I can find the link to the site administrators and ask if they might have a cached copy (no pun intended lol) that they can re-post for me.

I took this as authorization for me to restore the substantive contents of the OP, so I have done that.

 

So, once again, with the opening post restored and the posts which some found objectionable now behind us, let's get back to the substantive discussion.

[Whoseyerwan]

Whoseyerwan, I feel compelled to try to apologize for some of the rude, uncalled for for comments and post to this thread. Although I haven't commented to now, being part of the geocaching community, I find it embarrassing to be associated with some of the people who have decided to reply to your thread in the way they have. Some people just can't help trying to make up for shortcomings in other areas, by criticizing and name-calling. Believe me, not all geocachers are like that!

While all might not completely agree with you, it is certainly our responsibility to try to be as environmentally responsible as we can be!

Since you aren't a geocacher, you might not be aware of our concerns regarding cache containers, but it certainly is your right to comment on materials used to hide them.

 

I haven't posted up to now, but have been following the discussion. Please ignore the spiteful people that have posted in this thread and let the dialogue continue .. hopefully without any more rudeness.

 

Ah I must admit BC & MsKitty, I was rather taken aback this morning at the ferocity of some, and I did go to work feeling rather put out by it all. But I soon forgot it and had a great day at work today (put a lot of smiles on a lot of faces today). So thank you for your kind words, they're much appreciated.

 

No, I am a hiker and have never done a cache - only found out about it this week. But I do get why ye all enjoy it so much.And you are right, I wasn't aware there were concerns already raised on this. I think, when I get some time to do it properly, that I will look into what might be suitable containers, and I know I will be looking at containers with fresh eyes from now on. The science behind the material interests me also, so I will get to learn more stuff too. Bonus! lol

 

I dont know where to start.I seem to be following the discussion backwards and replying backwards too... btw it's nice to meet you BC & MsKitty (what a cute name).

[+Trotter17]

I've gotten into really natural geocaching lately. I typically find the spot where I want to place a cache and look for the materials to form some sort of rudimentary lathe. I then make my cache out of any available wood or stone.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Trotter17

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Hopefully we're getting back on topic here. I have a couple of general comments.

 

I think some of the response were a bit of a knee jerk reaction to someone without any actual experience playing the game, telling us how to play the game.

 

Without getting into the relative merits of plastic in our environment, it would really be quite impractical for geocachers to stop using (an replace what is probably a milllion plus plastic containers already out there).

 

One of the bothersome aspects of the thread for me has been that loaded language used in describing the issue. Phrases like "plastics are being deposited in locations" and "I'm having visons of plastic caches being dropped off all over the place" and "show them what is being him scattered around the Irish countryside".

 

Geocaches aren't "dropped", "deposited", and "scattered" around the Irish countryside, left there for eternity. Geocaches are *hidden* for others to be found and despite the fact that *some* geocachers have left them out there without maintaining them, the basic tenets of geocaching is that if somone "hides" a cache they will be responsible for maintaining it, and that includes limiting the environmental impact the existence of the container may have. Sure, there are some that are not environmentally conscious and wrap containers in plastic bags but I think even from this thread it should be fairly obvious that, in general geocachers are a pretty environmentally conscious bunch and are going to be critical of anyone that is playing the game and treats the game pieces as so much litter.

 

Someone throwing a plastic container out the window of their car as they drive down the freeway should not be equated with someone placing a plastic container such that it's not visible to the public, will maintain that container as long as it's viable, and then *remove* the container once it isn't.

[Whoseyerwan]

Deleted Was meant for the site admin.

 

Only a fool would have read that as being indicative of my being a troll.

I am sorry you feel this way, but look at the circumstances of your posting. You signed up for an account yesterday. You have no finds or hides. You immediately started a thread complaining about the use of plastics in the wild. Since the use of plastic containers is one of the preferred methods of hiding caches, your vague initial post naturally caused an uproar. It wasn't until a long series of posting later that we finally figured out you were talking about plastic bags. So now you have edited your first post so much no one will ever figure out what was asked about in the first place.

 

Now I am not calling you a troll, however the way that this thread came about and with your now changed first post, you should understand why some of the posters might think you are a troll. The last straw is to call us fools. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and do not think you are a troll. But if you step back and take a fresh look at this thread, you should see that if a troll wanted to stir things up, this would be the way to do it.

 

Just a piece of advice for future posting. Be clear on what you are talking about and do not call others fools.

 

By the way, welcome to geocaching. it is a fun activity and most of the other cachers are great! Please read the guides available for beginners and find the cachers in your area to cache with. Please get some finds under your belt before you place one yourself. Enjoy, and I hope to meet you on the trails.

 

I'm not sure if you are the person that was itemising all the "evidence" to support your/someone's troll theory or not, but if you are then I have to tell you that that was rather mean of you. If I were troll it would have become self-evident fairly soon I'm sure....and please do not say you are sorry, and then go on to try to prove it again and again and again ad nausum. Either you are genuinely sorry, or you are not, or you still believe Im a troll or you don't.

 

I thought I had already said that my concern about the plastics was the very reason I set up the account in the first place. And, I may be wrong, but I was straight up honest and told ye I hadn't done a cache/find...why would I lie about something like this? I just don't get why you have so much distrust..and I get it even less as to why you would even want to put so much energy into proving such a worthless theory. You know, someone once said.... liars think that everyone else is a liar, and thieves think that everyone else is a thief. Therefore to every liar and theif you meet, they will always think you are a liar and a thief. Should I be applying this theory to you then, give how distrustful you think I am?

 

Oh good...so now you're not calling me a troll.....instead he goes on to actually script what I should/should not be saying...and do.And it gets better....should I ever want to be a troll...well then, here's the "how to guide"....more advice,more scripting more dictates...and here we go...the finale..the nice pat on the head with the threat of us possibly meeting somewhere out in the middle of nowhere!

 

Oh YOU may not be a troll.but you are certainly a textbook classic!! If you want my advice it will cost you €500/hour + expenses

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm tired of talking about my potential as the site troll.....it's not the job for me.

[+narcissa]

For all the heartbreak about "rudeness" that goes on, I wonder that few seem to find it rude when someone swans into the geocaching forum with willfully incorrect statements about what the game entails.

[Whoseyerwan]

plastics are being deposited in locations it's never been seen in before

 

Please give an example of a place - any place in the world where geocachers could possibly place a cache - where plastic has never been seen before.

The more remote inland parts of Antarctica? Or did the penguins take it there from the crowded parts?

 

{Yes, it's been a long day!}

 

I would expect to find traces of plastic there. Once it breaks down, it's quite persistent in the environment and gets carried around the globe in any number of ways, even to the most remote environments on earth.

 

Anyone who thinks they can find a pristine, plastic-free environment has no idea what they are talking about. Picking on geocachers is just an easy way for these slacktivists to feel good about themselves.

 

It has certainly permeated every inch of our seas and oceans, there's no doubt about that, but for it to arrive in certain locations (on land) it would need to be transported there by some means.....thankfully the hydrologically cycle is not a form of transport for it, not yet, or as far as I know anyway. If you show me other wise then I will be happy to concede. Don't cite the wind, that has inherent limitations, although given the distances it can be blown one would be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

 

And nobody is picking on Geocachers. If I were, there are far easier ways to do that than having to come on here...

 

Slacktivists? Would love to hear you say that after a few whiskeys. Actually one would probably do the trick! lol

[Whoseyerwan]

Anyway, I will see if I can find the link to the site administrators and ask if they might have a cached copy (no pun intended lol) that they can re-post for me.

I took this as authorization for me to restore the substantive contents of the OP, so I have done that.

 

So, once again, with the opening post restored and the posts which some found objectionable now behind us, let's get back to the substantive discussion.

 

Did ya now?

 

Well I suppose it saved me a lot of hassle, so good manners dictate thanks are in order. Although I hope it 'was' the original post that has been deleted/restored, and not the one I thought was going to "human beings" in an admin office. In that case I'm sure you will understand my not being so grateful .

 

Annnaway, thank you kindly Mr/Mrs/Miss Keystone for being the friendly helpful new neighbour,it is much appreciated

[Whoseyerwan]

I've gotten into really natural geocaching lately. I typically find the spot where I want to place a cache and look for the materials to form some sort of rudimentary lathe. I then make my cache out of any available wood or stone.

 

Ooooh now 'that' sounds lovely, and so creative too. I'd love to see some if you ever took a notion to post a picture or two

[Whoseyerwan]

For all the heartbreak about "rudeness" that goes on, I wonder that few seem to find it rude when someone swans into the geocaching forum with willfully incorrect statements about what the game entails.

 

If that is what I have done, then by all means feel free to put me straight. Willfully means intentional. does this mean you are a mind-reader.

 

Swans in? Actually it felt more like skidding on banana skin with the whole world tuned in....

[+Colonial Cats]

Deleted Was meant for the site admin.

 

Only a fool would have read that as being indicative of my being a troll.

I am sorry you feel this way, but look at the circumstances of your posting. You signed up for an account yesterday. You have no finds or hides. You immediately started a thread complaining about the use of plastics in the wild. Since the use of plastic containers is one of the preferred methods of hiding caches, your vague initial post naturally caused an uproar. It wasn't until a long series of posting later that we finally figured out you were talking about plastic bags. So now you have edited your first post so much no one will ever figure out what was asked about in the first place.

 

Now I am not calling you a troll, however the way that this thread came about and with your now changed first post, you should understand why some of the posters might think you are a troll. The last straw is to call us fools. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and do not think you are a troll. But if you step back and take a fresh look at this thread, you should see that if a troll wanted to stir things up, this would be the way to do it.

 

Just a piece of advice for future posting. Be clear on what you are talking about and do not call others fools.

 

By the way, welcome to geocaching. it is a fun activity and most of the other cachers are great! Please read the guides available for beginners and find the cachers in your area to cache with. Please get some finds under your belt before you place one yourself. Enjoy, and I hope to meet you on the trails.

 

I'm not sure if you are the person that was itemising all the "evidence" to support your/someone's troll theory or not, but if you are then I have to tell you that that was rather mean of you. If I were troll it would have become self-evident fairly soon I'm sure....and please do not say you are sorry, and then go on to try to prove it again and again and again ad nausum. Either you are genuinely sorry, or you are not, or you still believe Im a troll or you don't.

 

I thought I had already said that my concern about the plastics was the very reason I set up the account in the first place. And, I may be wrong, but I was straight up honest and told ye I hadn't done a cache/find...why would I lie about something like this? I just don't get why you have so much distrust..and I get it even less as to why you would even want to put so much energy into proving such a worthless theory. You know, someone once said.... liars think that everyone else is a liar, and thieves think that everyone else is a thief. Therefore to every liar and theif you meet, they will always think you are a liar and a thief. Should I be applying this theory to you then, give how distrustful you think I am?

 

Oh good...so now you're not calling me a troll.....instead he goes on to actually script what I should/should not be saying...and do.And it gets better....should I ever want to be a troll...well then, here's the "how to guide"....more advice,more scripting more dictates...and here we go...the finale..the nice pat on the head with the threat of us possibly meeting somewhere out in the middle of nowhere!

 

Oh YOU may not be a troll.but you are certainly a textbook classic!! If you want my advice it will cost you €500/hour + expenses

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm tired of talking about my potential as the site troll.....it's not the job for me.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post. I did not call you a troll; I simply pointed out why some folks would think so. My post had no hidden meanings or implied threats. I was just looking you in the eye and telling you exactly how I felt. Nothing more and nothing less. As for "meeting you on the trails" I truly met it in a nice way. I say that often when I email newbies. I met it as an encouragement for you to do some geocaching. I hope you realize now that I had no malicious intent. Try some Geocaching; it is good for the soul.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Colonial Cats

[+The A-Team]

For all the heartbreak about "rudeness" that goes on, I wonder that few seem to find it rude when someone swans into the geocaching forum with willfully incorrect statements about what the game entails.

Uncalled for.

 

You seem to be of the opinion that they intentionally fabricated an incorrect impression of geocaching and came here to stir the pot. I see no evidence of that. What I see is - as they stated - a person who just learned about geocaching and had some concerns based on how they thought the game was played. Some very helpful people have done their best to explain that this isn't how geocaching works, amongst a number of people posting willfully incorrect statements about the OP for no apparent reason other than to derail what could otherwise be a productive discussion.

 

If you see that someone has gotten the wrong impression of geocaching, explain to them how their impression is wrong and try to allay their fears. Don't just attack them. That isn't very neighbourly. Would you talk to someone that way if they were standing right in front of you?

 

Hopefully Whoseyerwan has had their questions answered and their concerns addressed. If so, it might be best for them to ask for this discussion to be closed, because it doesn't seem to be advancing anywhere useful anymore.

[Whoseyerwan]

Deleted Was meant for the site admin.

 

Only a fool would have read that as being indicative of my being a troll.

I am sorry you feel this way, but look at the circumstances of your posting. You signed up for an account yesterday. You have no finds or hides. You immediately started a thread complaining about the use of plastics in the wild. Since the use of plastic containers is one of the preferred methods of hiding caches, your vague initial post naturally caused an uproar. It wasn't until a long series of posting later that we finally figured out you were talking about plastic bags. So now you have edited your first post so much no one will ever figure out what was asked about in the first place.

 

Now I am not calling you a troll, however the way that this thread came about and with your now changed first post, you should understand why some of the posters might think you are a troll. The last straw is to call us fools. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and do not think you are a troll. But if you step back and take a fresh look at this thread, you should see that if a troll wanted to stir things up, this would be the way to do it.

 

Just a piece of advice for future posting. Be clear on what you are talking about and do not call others fools.

 

By the way, welcome to geocaching. it is a fun activity and most of the other cachers are great! Please read the guides available for beginners and find the cachers in your area to cache with. Please get some finds under your belt before you place one yourself. Enjoy, and I hope to meet you on the trails.

 

I'm not sure if you are the person that was itemising all the "evidence" to support your/someone's troll theory or not, but if you are then I have to tell you that that was rather mean of you. If I were troll it would have become self-evident fairly soon I'm sure....and please do not say you are sorry, and then go on to try to prove it again and again and again ad nausum. Either you are genuinely sorry, or you are not, or you still believe Im a troll or you don't.

 

I thought I had already said that my concern about the plastics was the very reason I set up the account in the first place. And, I may be wrong, but I was straight up honest and told ye I hadn't done a cache/find...why would I lie about something like this? I just don't get why you have so much distrust..and I get it even less as to why you would even want to put so much energy into proving such a worthless theory. You know, someone once said.... liars think that everyone else is a liar, and thieves think that everyone else is a thief. Therefore to every liar and theif you meet, they will always think you are a liar and a thief. Should I be applying this theory to you then, give how distrustful you think I am?

 

Oh good...so now you're not calling me a troll.....instead he goes on to actually script what I should/should not be saying...and do.And it gets better....should I ever want to be a troll...well then, here's the "how to guide"....more advice,more scripting more dictates...and here we go...the finale..the nice pat on the head with the threat of us possibly meeting somewhere out in the middle of nowhere!

 

Oh YOU may not be a troll.but you are certainly a textbook classic!! If you want my advice it will cost you €500/hour + expenses

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm tired of talking about my potential as the site troll.....it's not the job for me.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post. I did not call you a troll; I simply pointed out why some folks would think so. My post had no hidden meanings or implied threats. I was just looking you in the eye and telling you exactly how I felt. Nothing more and nothing less. As for "meeting you on the trails" I truly met it in a nice way. I say that often when I email newbies. I met it as an encouragement for you to do some geocaching. I hope you realize now that I had no malicious intent. Try some Geocaching; it is good for the soul.

 

Ok, well sure lets put it behind us then eh and not let it be causing us any more bother

 

You know, if we did meet out there in some remote regions....I can guarantee you I wouldnt just let you pass by and not say hello to you, stop and have a chat....Well I have been a hiker for many years, so geo caching would be an extension of it, and yes, getting out there truly is good for the soul..and the rest too....

[+Colonial Cats]

Deleted Was meant for the site admin.

 

Only a fool would have read that as being indicative of my being a troll.

I am sorry you feel this way, but look at the circumstances of your posting. You signed up for an account yesterday. You have no finds or hides. You immediately started a thread complaining about the use of plastics in the wild. Since the use of plastic containers is one of the preferred methods of hiding caches, your vague initial post naturally caused an uproar. It wasn't until a long series of posting later that we finally figured out you were talking about plastic bags. So now you have edited your first post so much no one will ever figure out what was asked about in the first place.

 

Now I am not calling you a troll, however the way that this thread came about and with your now changed first post, you should understand why some of the posters might think you are a troll. The last straw is to call us fools. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and do not think you are a troll. But if you step back and take a fresh look at this thread, you should see that if a troll wanted to stir things up, this would be the way to do it.

 

Just a piece of advice for future posting. Be clear on what you are talking about and do not call others fools.

 

By the way, welcome to geocaching. it is a fun activity and most of the other cachers are great! Please read the guides available for beginners and find the cachers in your area to cache with. Please get some finds under your belt before you place one yourself. Enjoy, and I hope to meet you on the trails.

 

I'm not sure if you are the person that was itemising all the "evidence" to support your/someone's troll theory or not, but if you are then I have to tell you that that was rather mean of you. If I were troll it would have become self-evident fairly soon I'm sure....and please do not say you are sorry, and then go on to try to prove it again and again and again ad nausum. Either you are genuinely sorry, or you are not, or you still believe Im a troll or you don't.

 

I thought I had already said that my concern about the plastics was the very reason I set up the account in the first place. And, I may be wrong, but I was straight up honest and told ye I hadn't done a cache/find...why would I lie about something like this? I just don't get why you have so much distrust..and I get it even less as to why you would even want to put so much energy into proving such a worthless theory. You know, someone once said.... liars think that everyone else is a liar, and thieves think that everyone else is a thief. Therefore to every liar and theif you meet, they will always think you are a liar and a thief. Should I be applying this theory to you then, give how distrustful you think I am?

 

Oh good...so now you're not calling me a troll.....instead he goes on to actually script what I should/should not be saying...and do.And it gets better....should I ever want to be a troll...well then, here's the "how to guide"....more advice,more scripting more dictates...and here we go...the finale..the nice pat on the head with the threat of us possibly meeting somewhere out in the middle of nowhere!

 

Oh YOU may not be a troll.but you are certainly a textbook classic!! If you want my advice it will cost you €500/hour + expenses

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm tired of talking about my potential as the site troll.....it's not the job for me.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post. I did not call you a troll; I simply pointed out why some folks would think so. My post had no hidden meanings or implied threats. I was just looking you in the eye and telling you exactly how I felt. Nothing more and nothing less. As for "meeting you on the trails" I truly met it in a nice way. I say that often when I email newbies. I met it as an encouragement for you to do some geocaching. I hope you realize now that I had no malicious intent. Try some Geocaching; it is good for the soul.

 

Ok, well sure lets put it behind us then eh and not let it be causing us any more bother

 

You know, if we did meet out there in some remote regions....I can guarantee you I wouldnt just let you pass by and not say hello to you, stop and have a chat....Well I have been a hiker for many years, so geo caching would be an extension of it, and yes, getting out there truly is good for the soul..and the rest too....

[Whoseyerwan]

For all the heartbreak about "rudeness" that goes on, I wonder that few seem to find it rude when someone swans into the geocaching forum with willfully incorrect statements about what the game entails.

Uncalled for.

 

You seem to be of the opinion that they intentionally fabricated an incorrect impression of geocaching and came here to stir the pot. I see no evidence of that. What I see is - as they stated - a person who just learned about geocaching and had some concerns based on how they thought the game was played. Some very helpful people have done their best to explain that this isn't how geocaching works, amongst a number of people posting willfully incorrect statements about the OP for no apparent reason other than to derail what could otherwise be a productive discussion.

 

If you see that someone has gotten the wrong impression of geocaching, explain to them how their impression is wrong and try to allay their fears. Don't just attack them. That isn't very neighbourly. Would you talk to someone that way if they were standing right in front of you?

 

Hopefully Whoseyerwan has had their questions answered and their concerns addressed. If so, it might be best for them to ask for this discussion to be closed, because it doesn't seem to be advancing anywhere useful anymore.

 

Hi,

 

God no Ateam, I havent even read half of the replies yet, or even managed to actually get the chance to discuss it.

 

And thank you also for the above, that was very well said

 

Edited to make correction

Edited April 15, 2015 by Whoseyerwan

[Whoseyerwan]

Agreed, totally! In fact, an outer plastic bag is generally considered tacky, at best. If you need to do that, you picked a poor container to begin with.

 

The Guidelines should prohibit plastic bags for geocaching containers, or to wrap them. I think we can all agree they are unnecessary and environmentally unsafe on a cache - yes, worse than film cans.

 

That said, a good plastic container like a lock-n-lock (latched Tupperware) or preform (hard plastic tube with screwtop) are two of the best and most durable cache containers out there. Depending on the environmental conditions (such as proximity to the salty ocean air) plastic containers are superior to the overall best container, the metal ammo can.

 

It's UV (ultra voilet) light that breaks down plastic, and regardless of how strong/durable/expensive it is....it will break it down. I think I mentioned last night in a different post that you could prove it for yourself if you were so inclined...Just leave various plastics outside for about six months, longer if you can. Make sure you just leave it alone undisturbed in broad daylight and you might be quite surprised to find just what it does when you put pressure on it after it has been outside for so long. I know I was when it first happened to me.

 

Oh, just had a thought. Has anyone ever heard of UV resistant plastic by any chance?? I dont know if there is actually any UV resistant plastic out there, but there could well be, I just havent heard of it though.

 

I found a washed up very large container on my local beach a couple of years ago, 50 litres large I mean.. I dont know what it was used for, but it was the toughest plastic I have ever seen..I was jumping up and down on it like a nutter to see if it would even kink or bow....great craic lol. I should have brought it to the lab for analysis, but instead I brought it to the recycling place instead....

 

 

 

 

I have no idea how salty water affects plastics, but it's easily found out

[Whoseyerwan]

Many parks (and I'd bet at least one near you) require a clear, plastic container.

 

Sorry, I dont understand why a park would require a clear plastic bag? Here a park could be anything from a kiddies playground, to a field that has been nicely mown (see croke park) , to a football pitch, to grand elaborate landscaped garden.

OK, to be clear, we do not equate a plastic container with a plastic bag. The plastic container must be durable and waterproof; something a plastic bag could never be. Properly maintained by the cache owner, a plastic container would pose no environmental problems.

 

Oh no lol...sorry, I prety much couldnt get my head around the "parks require" part either. Mind you, their also having jurisdiction over something like geocaching had me rather baffled too. It must be seriously seriously huge pastime in the US then if there are "requirements" place over there. It never ceases to amaze me how controlled your lives are in the "Land of the Free"....Anyway, that's not relevant

[Whoseyerwan]

I am unclear why someone is posting about plastic containers and yet has ZERO finds on their profile? Is it a busy cacher who wants to remain anonymous so they created a new account? Is it someone who just likes to troll the internet and cause trouble? As far as how much damage is being done to the environment by plastic geocaching containers, it would probably rate somewhere between the damage done by flea farts and the damage done by butterfly burps!

 

I am guessing it is somebody that knows about geocaching and cares about the environment and the world around her and has come here to ask us to be careful. I find your post to be very rude to a caring newcomer. Please be polite. Would you treat a guest in your house like that?

 

Oh thank you, that's a lovely way to put it. And in a nutshell too.

 

Im not here to find fault with the activiity, in fact I think it's a great idea. I just have one little concern and rather than over react I thought I would voice it here first to give anyone who wants to respond the opportunity to respond....and take it from there.

 

Yes, I sense that. And you have been more than polite despite some very rude responses. Thanks for taking the high road, and I hope the moderators spot this thread soon and start to rap a few knuckles.

 

May I ask how you learned about geocaching and what brought your attention to this issue?

 

I think this thread is the definition of overreaction by the OP, don't know why you are buttressing him/her up.

 

 

 

I am unclear why someone is posting about plastic containers and yet has ZERO finds on their profile? Is it a busy cacher who wants to remain anonymous so they created a new account? Is it someone who just likes to troll the internet and cause trouble? As far as how much damage is being done to the environment by plastic geocaching containers, it would probably rate somewhere between the damage done by flea farts and the damage done by butterfly burps!

 

Speaking from personal experience, if you suspect someone is trolling, it is best to report it and allow the mods to figure it out.

 

Trolling was my impression early on and either knowschad is doing a major league troll of the troller or.......I'm not gonna finish this sentence.

 

I am buttressing a guest to our forums, Roman! Something that I think you and a few others here would do well to consider.

 

To the person at the top of this who asked how I heard of Geocaching...I was researching something work related and just stumbled upon it. I'm not quite sure how I ended up at this forum, but here I am lol.

 

Can I ask what that poster meant when by "buttressing a guest"?? It's probably an Americanism...but oh lol...the mind boggles

[+The_Roots]

Many parks (and I'd bet at least one near you) require a clear, plastic container.

 

Sorry, I dont understand why a park would require a clear plastic bag? Here a park could be anything from a kiddies playground, to a field that has been nicely mown (see croke park) , to a football pitch, to grand elaborate landscaped garden.

OK, to be clear, we do not equate a plastic container with a plastic bag. The plastic container must be durable and waterproof; something a plastic bag could never be. Properly maintained by the cache owner, a plastic container would pose no environmental problems.

 

Oh no lol...sorry, I prety much couldnt get my head around the "parks require" part either. Mind you, their also having jurisdiction over something like geocaching had me rather baffled too. It must be seriously seriously huge pastime in the US then if there are "requirements" place over there. It never ceases to amaze me how controlled your lives are in the "Land of the Free"....Anyway, that's not relevant

 

The parks here often require permission so that they keep people out of sensitive areas and so that they know where things are hidden, just in case they get a call about a suspicious person/ thing in the woods. They want to keep the impact of the cache to a minimum. It's got nothing to do with "land of the free"

 

After reading this whole thread, I see two points:

1: We all agree that plastic bags for a cache, or holding a cache box are not the answer. Ideally, the only time a bag is used is to hold the log. And even then, with a well done cache, it's not always needed.

2: There is no better alternative to low cost plastic lock & lock containers for caches. 40$ a metal ammo can is not financially feasible for many people who very much enjoy caching. Come up with a low cost, reasonable alternative and many people will listen, as many of us aren't a fan of plastic but with no affordable options...

 

Edit: can't spell

Edited April 15, 2015 by The_Roots

[+Ben0w]

Whoseyerwan, you responded to a lot of postings but never seem to get to the core question, which already has bern mentioned in several postings: are you aware, that Geocaching is NOT about just leaving plastic boxes in the wild abandoned? Cache ownership goes further, including regularly maintaining the cache box, repairing and replacing it if needed BEFORE it gets totally broken and torn away.

 

You may be overwhelmed by "7000 plastic devices" in your corner of the world, but very few caches are left as litter, far the most are well maintained and are no threat to the environment and wildlife. Responsible cache hiders know well about the durability of their boxes and how to handle UV light issues as well as impact on wildlife. There even is an established process if a cache owner doesn't take his/hers responsibility serious (needs maintenance & needs archive requests).

 

So please understand, that most probably your crusade against plastic litter in the woods (which is absolutely OK) hasn't the majority of geocachers as target. They really don't "leave" plastic in the wild. Instead we hide boxes (and plastic has some advantages over others, even on environmental espects) and care for them and the surroundings of the cache - hence the CITO aspect, you alteady mentioned (Cache In Trash Out).

 

As long as you don't accept this as a valid part of the discussion, I can't take you for beeing much solution oriented.

[Whoseyerwan]

Another thing to consider is that all caches are temporary, be it one week or 15 years. Part of the guidelines require us to pick up any residual caches/cache debris when the cache is archived. Between this and CITO events, I believe that the environment is better, as a whole, with geocachers in it. That said, I do agree that many of us need to take more care in selecting the right container for the right environment.

.

 

But I'm wondering what happens to the cache when it's a tourist that is only visiting. Would I be correct in thinking they give responsibility to someone local, or is it just left there and never reclaimed by the owner? Or do you only place caches in your own locality, where you live?

 

ok, so there is a time limit...although years is a bit long. I understand some being so popular that they should be left....but 15 years is a long time.Then again if it is being probably looked after and due care has been given to the cache it should be ok

....

My concerns are the ones that are neglected, forgotten about or effectively dumped

Edited April 15, 2015 by Whoseyerwan

[+The_Roots]

Another thing to consider is that all caches are temporary, be it one week or 15 years. Part of the guidelines require us to pick up any residual caches/cache debris when the cache is archived. Between this and CITO events, I believe that the environment is better, as a whole, with geocachers in it. That said, I do agree that many of us need to take more care in selecting the right container for the right environment.

.

 

But I'm wondering what happens to the cache when it's a tourist that is only visiting. Would I be correct in thinking they give responsibility to someone local, or is it just left there and never reclaimed by the owner? Or do you only place caches in your own locality, where you live?

 

Vacation caches are not allowed unless the CO can prove they have a viable maintenance plan. And no that does not mean "my cousin's uncle said he'd stop by if we have an issue".

Edited April 15, 2015 by The_Roots

[+geodarts]

Another thing to consider is that all caches are temporary, be it one week or 15 years. Part of the guidelines require us to pick up any residual caches/cache debris when the cache is archived. Between this and CITO events, I believe that the environment is better, as a whole, with geocachers in it. That said, I do agree that many of us need to take more care in selecting the right container for the right environment.

.

 

But I'm wondering what happens to the cache when it's a tourist that is only visiting. Would I be correct in thinking they give responsibility to someone local, or is it just left there and never reclaimed by the owner? Or do you only place caches in your own locality, where you live?

 

Physical Vacation caches - or caches by tourists - are very much restricted for publishing on this site. They can only be approved if the person can demonstrate that there is a maintenance plan in place. Thus, the only caches I have placed outside my immediate area are earthcaches, which do not involve physical containers (instead they focus on earth science and are reviewed separately by people with expertise in that area).

Edited April 15, 2015 by geodarts

[+niraD]

But I'm wondering what happens to the cache when it's a tourist that is only visiting.

According to the guidelines, you are supposed to "place physical caches in your usual caching area and not while traveling".

[Whoseyerwan]

Whoseyerwan, you responded to a lot of postings but never seem to get to the core question, which already has bern mentioned in several postings: are you aware, that Geocaching is NOT about just leaving plastic boxes in the wild abandoned? Cache ownership goes further, including regularly maintaining the cache box, repairing and replacing it if needed BEFORE it gets totally broken and torn away.

 

You may be overwhelmed by "7000 plastic devices" in your corner of the world, but very few caches are left as litter, far the most are well maintained and are no threat to the environment and wildlife. Responsible cache hiders know well about the durability of their boxes and how to handle UV light issues as well as impact on wildlife. There even is an established process if a cache owner doesn't take his/hers responsibility serious (needs maintenance & needs archive requests).

 

So please understand, that most probably your crusade against plastic litter in the woods (which is absolutely OK) hasn't the majority of geocachers as target. They really don't "leave" plastic in the wild. Instead we hide boxes (and plastic has some advantages over others, even on environmental espects) and care for them and the surroundings of the cache - hence the CITO aspect, you alteady mentioned (Cache In Trash Out).

 

As long as you don't accept this as a valid part of the discussion, I can't take you for beeing much solution oriented.

 

Yes, and it's beginning to feel like a tedious labour now as most of it was nothing to do with my original post. And I have only just asked about tourists leaving caches, then returning back to their own homeland. What happens to these caches? Are they just left there, or what?

 

Yes, I did see a few with the spanner icon and worked it out. but the sheer volume must mean that a lot are still left lying around, and it is those ones I am wondering about too...Like how long can a cache be left for with no one having found it? I've seen a lot that have been cached for years and it looks like it's just been forgotten about. How can one tell the responsible party is still being responsible?

 

Of course this is a valid part of the conversation, but with so many posts it's hard to actually get down to it. And I am totally solutions orientated, hence my stating earlier that I am going to look into the science abit more deeply. Just because everyone believes xyz is the right thing, it does not necessarily mean they are right. Sometimes the lone voice is the right voice. I'm not saying I'm the lone voice by the way.

[Whoseyerwan]

Another thing to consider is that all caches are temporary, be it one week or 15 years. Part of the guidelines require us to pick up any residual caches/cache debris when the cache is archived. Between this and CITO events, I believe that the environment is better, as a whole, with geocachers in it. That said, I do agree that many of us need to take more care in selecting the right container for the right environment.

.

 

But I'm wondering what happens to the cache when it's a tourist that is only visiting. Would I be correct in thinking they give responsibility to someone local, or is it just left there and never reclaimed by the owner? Or do you only place caches in your own locality, where you live?

 

Physical Vacation caches - or caches by tourists - are very much restricted for publishing on this site. They can only be approved if the person can demonstrate that there is a maintenance plan in place. For instance, when I travel to Ireland I could not leave a container there. From what I remember, though, a ffriend, whose father lives in Ireeland placed a cache with full assurances that his father will care for it.

 

Thus, the only caches I have placed outside my immediate area are earthcaches, which do not involve physical containers (instead they focus on earth science and are reviewed separately by people with expertise in that area).

 

Ok, well that's good to hear, I did wonder about that part. Thankyou.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Whoseyerwan

[knowschad]

For all the heartbreak about "rudeness" that goes on, I wonder that few seem to find it rude when someone swans into the geocaching forum with willfully incorrect statements about what the game entails.

 

Your flowery prose fails to mask the toxic bitterness in your meaning. People have every right in the world to come here with little understanding of how we play our game in a countryside that is also theirs, and question us about it without being blasted with unfounded accusations.

 

To Whoseryerwan, I too apologize for some of the responses you have received. We are not all like that.

[+Roman!]

Whoseyerwan, you responded to a lot of postings but never seem to get to the core question, which already has bern mentioned in several postings: are you aware, that Geocaching is NOT about just leaving plastic boxes in the wild abandoned? Cache ownership goes further, including regularly maintaining the cache box, repairing and replacing it if needed BEFORE it gets totally broken and torn away.

 

You may be overwhelmed by "7000 plastic devices" in your corner of the world, but very few caches are left as litter, far the most are well maintained and are no threat to the environment and wildlife. Responsible cache hiders know well about the durability of their boxes and how to handle UV light issues as well as impact on wildlife. There even is an established process if a cache owner doesn't take his/hers responsibility serious (needs maintenance & needs archive requests).

 

So please understand, that most probably your crusade against plastic litter in the woods (which is absolutely OK) hasn't the majority of geocachers as target. They really don't "leave" plastic in the wild. Instead we hide boxes (and plastic has some advantages over others, even on environmental espects) and care for them and the surroundings of the cache - hence the CITO aspect, you alteady mentioned (Cache In Trash Out).

 

As long as you don't accept this as a valid part of the discussion, I can't take you for beeing much solution oriented.

 

Yes, and it's beginning to feel like a tedious labour now as most of it was nothing to do with my original post. And I have only just asked about tourists leaving caches, then returning back to their own homeland. What happens to these caches? Are they just left there, or what?

 

Yes, I did see a few with the spanner icon and worked it out. but the sheer volume must mean that a lot are still left lying around, and it is those ones I am wondering about too...Like how long can a cache be left for with no one having found it? I've seen a lot that have been cached for years and it looks like it's just been forgotten about. How can one tell the responsible party is still being responsible?

 

Of course this is a valid part of the conversation, but with so many posts it's hard to actually get down to it. And I am totally solutions orientated, hence my stating earlier that I am going to look into the science abit more deeply. Just because everyone believes xyz is the right thing, it does not necessarily mean they are right. Sometimes the lone voice is the right voice. I'm not saying I'm the lone voice by the way.

 

So what? A few plastic containers get abandoned, the overall impact of geocachiers on the environment is a positive one.

 

There are some 2.5 million geocaches world wide, let's say every year 1% get archived, that's 25,000. Now I'd be surprised if half are plastic, we are down to 12,500 and if geocachers are really bad only half pick up their containers that leave 6,250 small pieces of plastic left out worldwide, where exactly is the problem?

 

Just one well attended CITO can pick up that much trash in one day.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Roman!

[+K13]

To the one that started this thread, Geocaching has a special type of event called a CITO (Cache In Trash Out). At these events, Geocachers get together in an organized activity of trail maintenance, environment improvement, or PICKING UP LITTER. At the last CITO Event I attended, the assembled group picked up over 500 pounds of litter from a park. I seriously doubt that all the plastic containers in your area, or even your entire island, would add up to that amount. I think your concerns about the proliferation plastic, while valid, are misplaced in the arena of Geocaching.

 

A few folks here have tried to be extra-nice to you, even calling out some of the regulars who have been abrasive toward you. No apologies from me for the way others have replied to you. In my view, You came in on the offensive. You have remained in that mode, even when others have tried to be congenial. Others have thought you might be trolling.

 

You do seem to have more knowledge of the hobby than some who have been involved for months, but I reserve judgment on that issue.

 

If you are interested in joining our hobby, WELCOME. If you are here to complain about a misconception regarding the containers used, perhaps you should look elsewhere.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I get the distinct impression the OP, while sincere, is having some communication issues due to being unfamiliar not only with geocaching but also with internet message boards. There also seems to be some disconnect because they are in Ireland and most posters here are in the US. I'm thankful for the person from the UK who posted about the regional guidelines there.

 

In regards to plastic degrading in the sun: yes, but caches are rarely left in direct sunlight. They are usually hidden in some way, such as under a log or in some shrubbery which decreases accidental discovery but also reduces UV exposure. A cache owner should remove a damaged cache container, including UV damage; most do.

 

I would advise the CO to look on the map for some caches placed in rural areas. Read the description and look at the Gallery photos to see what kinds of containers are in use and how they are holding up.

[+narcissa]

In regards to plastic degrading in the sun: yes, but caches are rarely left in direct sunlight. They are usually hidden in some way, such as under a log or in some shrubbery which decreases accidental discovery but also reduces UV exposure. A cache owner should remove a damaged cache container, including UV damage; most do.

 

UV damage (and other environment damage) to plastic varies depending on the type of plastic. Plastics made to be thrown away degrade more quickly than plastics designed for long-term use. That's why a Folgers container will turn to dust after a couple of years in the field, but vinyl windows and ABS pipes don't degrade and crumble from sun exposure and temperature changes, even after many years.

 

Even in the worst case scenario where a geocache is abandoned somewhere, it's probably better if it's a durable plastic container than something that will rust or break over time.

[Whoseyerwan]

I get the distinct impression the OP, while sincere, is having some communication issues due to being unfamiliar not only with geocaching but also with internet message boards. There also seems to be some disconnect because they are in Ireland and most posters here are in the US. I'm thankful for the person from the UK who posted about the regional guidelines there.

 

In regards to plastic degrading in the sun: yes, but caches are rarely left in direct sunlight. They are usually hidden in some way, such as under a log or in some shrubbery which decreases accidental discovery but also reduces UV exposure. A cache owner should remove a damaged cache container, including UV damage; most do.

 

I would advise the CO to look on the map for some caches placed in rural areas. Read the description and look at the Gallery photos to see what kinds of containers are in use and how they are holding up.

 

Yes Joshim, you're right I am finding the layout of the thread to be a bit all over the place. I know ye probably have no problems making sense of how it works, but when I have a little time I will see if I can work out it's logic.

 

Regarding the caches. Yes, I spent a lot of time reading the caches in my area and also looked at aaaaall the photos -a 10 mile hike wouldnt be as exhausting lol. I'm probably a little better informed than you might think, but thank you for your suggestion all the same, and taking the time also.

 

I've already made provisional arrangements for (hopefully)next weekend and I'm really looking forward to it as I have been trying to get to this particular area for years. I cant remember when this cache was last found, but I think it was last year sometime, but either way it doesnt matter.

 

Yes, I have given that some thought (about their being hidden in the dark), but there are many that are still slightly exposed, it only takes one ray of light to render a container ineffectual. Also, I would still like to do a little more research into it and make sure it is only UV that can degrade the material, since I have no idea if temperature, and temp fluctuations have any role in that degredation. But it's not just the degredation that I was concerned about, it was also to do with small animals finding one and ending up being smothered or swallowing a shard of plastic, or being hurt/killed by something connected with the cache, that wouldnt happen if the cache werent there. .

 

I won't make no bones about the fact that I do consider the swap trinkets to be just junk, but hey, each to their own. But globally our stock of wildlife is deteriorating at an astonishing and seriously worrying rate. I live in rural Ireland and even here I can see a huge huge difference in the last 10 years. The owls (that used to drive me to tears cos they kept me awake at night) have dissapeared, we hardly ever see a sparrow hawk, the foxes and rabbits are a rare sight where once I used to be able to see literally SEAS of rabbits, and I am sure I don't need to tell anyone about the serious worries everyone is having about the declining numbers of the honey bees and whole hives just vanishing in a blink. Even the mice and voles seem to have vanished, and the dawn chorus here used to be deafening....1000's and 1000's and 1000's of birds (no, I'm not exaggerating) singing just outside your window at 5am is NOT as pleasant as you would think. I had to install double glazing to get some sleep!

 

Sleepless nights aside, I want to ensure that we are not expediting their demise because we want to play a game! Honestly, that's what it boils down to when we think about it. Is this something we really should be fighting about? To me I think it would be far better if we could look at this with a view to facilitating the game by methods, and using 'stuff' that we can unequivocally state is not having any impact on the local wildlife.

[Whoseyerwan]

I've gotten into really natural geocaching lately. I typically find the spot where I want to place a cache and look for the materials to form some sort of rudimentary lathe. I then make my cache out of any available wood or stone.

 

Hi Trotter, I am sure I replied to your post yesterday on this, but it doesnt seem to be here. Anyway, I love the idea of a really natural geocache, and using the surrounding materials to build it. If I do decide to get into the game, I would love to know how you are doing it, and is it something anyone could do.could I be so bold as to ask if you would post some photos so I can get the idea of how you make them. Unless of course you're also an entrepreneur and see a market for your caches, in that case...will you take Euros?

[+narcissa]

it only takes one ray of light to render a container ineffectual

 

This is why nobody puts food or anything else important in plastic containers. As soon you open the door of your fridge, the light makes all the containers crumble into shards.

[Whoseyerwan]

Many parks (and I'd bet at least one near you) require a clear, plastic container.

 

Sorry, I dont understand why a park would require a clear plastic bag? Here a park could be anything from a kiddies playground, to a field that has been nicely mown (see croke park) , to a football pitch, to grand elaborate landscaped garden.

OK, to be clear, we do not equate a plastic container with a plastic bag. The plastic container must be durable and waterproof; something a plastic bag could never be. Properly maintained by the cache owner, a plastic container would pose no environmental problems.

 

Oh no lol...sorry, I prety much couldnt get my head around the "parks require" part either. Mind you, their also having jurisdiction over something like geocaching had me rather baffled too. It must be seriously seriously huge pastime in the US then if there are "requirements" place over there. It never ceases to amaze me how controlled your lives are in the "Land of the Free"....Anyway, that's not relevant

 

The parks here often require permission so that they keep people out of sensitive areas and so that they know where things are hidden, just in case they get a call about a suspicious person/ thing in the woods. They want to keep the impact of the cache to a minimum. It's got nothing to do with "land of the free"

 

After reading this whole thread, I see two points:

1: We all agree that plastic bags for a cache, or holding a cache box are not the answer. Ideally, the only time a bag is used is to hold the log. And even then, with a well done cache, it's not always needed.

2: There is no better alternative to low cost plastic lock & lock containers for caches. 40$ a metal ammo can is not financially feasible for many people who very much enjoy caching. Come up with a low cost, reasonable alternative and many people will listen, as many of us aren't a fan of plastic but with no affordable options...

 

Edit: can't spell

 

I understand that may be the better solutions are too expensive for some people, but I would hazard a guess that there are some pretty smart people on here with a very creative talent who could come up with alternatives, I just replied to Trotter17 about his all natural caches that he makes out of the surrounding stones and wood. So maybe there is a way,or lots of ways.... we just need to be open to the idea and willing to discard the attachment to plastic.

[Whoseyerwan]

To the one that started this thread, Geocaching has a special type of event called a CITO (Cache In Trash Out). At these events, Geocachers get together in an organized activity of trail maintenance, environment improvement, or PICKING UP LITTER. At the last CITO Event I attended, the assembled group picked up over 500 pounds of litter from a park. I seriously doubt that all the plastic containers in your area, or even your entire island, would add up to that amount. I think your concerns about the proliferation plastic, while valid, are misplaced in the arena of Geocaching.

 

A few folks here have tried to be extra-nice to you, even calling out some of the regulars who have been abrasive toward you. No apologies from me for the way others have replied to you. In my view, You came in on the offensive. You have remained in that mode, even when others have tried to be congenial. Others have thought you might be trolling.

 

You do seem to have more knowledge of the hobby than some who have been involved for months, but I reserve judgment on that issue.

 

If you are interested in joining our hobby, WELCOME. If you are here to complain about a misconception regarding the containers used, perhaps you should look elsewhere.

 

yes I had read about the CITO events and charter before I wrote a word on here.

 

500 pounds? You think Ireland wouldn't even have that much? Ireland is producing a hell of a lot more than that...I know because there is a landfill site that I pass every day going to and from work...and I can see the amount of plastic. Even here, I generate at least one sackful of non-recyclable plastics every six months, and I dont even buy pre-wrapped vegetables or meat. Plastic wrappers are almost impossible to get away from...no matter how hard you try. I truly wish Ireland only had 500 pounds of plastic....eutopian dream though unfortunately.

 

I have gleaned my knowledge from reading websites, this website and forum as well as watching youtube videos. I'm a fast learner

 

Sorry...but I stopped reading when you started with the list of things Idid and didnt do on here. I'm not the topic of discussion on here, so I would be obliged if you would try to not make me the subject.