First Smartphone?

[+YAKE46]

I'm planning to put aside my Garmin 450T, flip-phone and iPod (audio books) and replace all with a iPhone 5s and Groundspeaks paid app with a rugged case. I compared my wife's iPhone 5c to my Garmin and found it as easy if not easier to read in the Arizona sun than my 450. Seldom do I geocache for more than three hours a day so battery life should be ok. I like the iPhone for its ability to replace the other devices I normally carry and its decent camera and mostly that I would be able to cache on the fly. My only real is will I be disappointed with its accuracy?

[+geodarts]

I cannot comment about whether you would be disappointed in its accuracy. I have used the iphone 3gs, 5, and 6 -- I assume the accuracy on the 5s would be similar to the latter two and that you have tried your wife's 5c and found it to be reasonably accurate.

 

I used the 5 under tree cover, narrow canyons in the middle of nowhere, on foreign trips, and in a lot of different situations. When I tested it against my garmin, it always seemed roughly comparable. Sometimes it got me closer to the actual cache. It always got me to where I can put down the unit and start to look. Yesterday, I took the 6 into a redwood forest and got within five feet of the cache. But its not an either/or situation for me. The caching app I use allows me to easily transfer cache information to my Oregon 600. Depending on the circumstances, I might use that instead. The two make a great combination so I would not necessarily abandon the 450.

 

I don't know if you tried playing wherigos on the 450 - but I have found the iphone app to be more stable and have more features than the old garmin players.

 

The rugged case is a good idea. I upgraded to the 6 not too long ago after dropping my phone into delta water as I was getting out of a kayak. I had gotten way too careless. I now have both a rugged and a waterproof case. Be aware of the limitations and treat it nicely.

Edited April 8, 2015 by geodarts

[+narcissa]

I know lots of people use them, but every time I've used mine in a pinch, I've found it extremely frustrating.

[+jellis]

I know lots of people use them, but every time I've used mine in a pinch, I've found it extremely frustrating.

Me to, but then I heard the same when smartphone users try using a GPS. I started with a GPS and used a smartphone during my frustrating times when I was going through refurbished Garmins. And yes I had a difficult time with it. I'll never change.

[+DarkZen]

My GPS is more accurate but not too much more. Despite that I almost always use my iPhone 5. It just has too many more advantages. I think you'll be happy with your choice.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

You will find it fairly accurate. You won't get much caching done though because your battery will be dead after 7 caches. Started yesterday on 100% and walked 0.7 got to the cache 59%.

 

Depending where you are in the world depends on signal. But you can download caches before you go and work offline even without phone signal via the paid app.

 

Griffin survivor case should do you they do a waterproof one now and it's been fired out of a cannon and the phone survived.

 

A phone can never replace a dedicated piece of navigation equipment.

 

Edit - forgot to add -

 

maps on the app - total pants

 

Unless you have iTunes on your PC forget about getting pictures off it with any regularity have to email them to yourself.

If it flips to GPRS (here in UK at least) you'll never get the app to work in under an hour if at all

Who can forget a previous update that left the app flickering on and off when navigating to a cache.

Dropping off and TB visits is a nightmare if you drop off a few munch munch on the battery life

Gotta wait to load previous logs instead of one touch.

Ditto - hints.

Ditto - spoilers - that's if you remembered to include those in the download.

If you failed to download and save for offline use and you lose signal you won't be going caching.

If the license isn't renewed you won't be using your phone to cache.

The screen is easier to read in sun - so is the oregon 650 and has photo tagging.

Leave some apps running by mistake and suddenly you have a brick.

Phone isn't waterproof so you'll need that case.

If you leave it in the sun (dashboard) it will power off and nothing will start it untill it's cool

Has an integrated torch. So does the 650 though.

You are the latest update away from disaster.

You can log caches as you go signal dependant but it will log them several times - at least twice lol.

Montanna has a huge screen. But might as well cache with an iPad round your neck.

You cannot use it with gsak but it has its own verson which is not as good.

Keep off them panorama photos too - phew that drinks battery like slamming shots.

Cannot do Wherigo caches.

Cannot do chirp caches without an arial thingy

You will have to pay for a monthly tarrif that has a good data package else you'll be out of data

You get to log with "that's one more find for me - I logged this using the geocsching app"

You are limited to the amount of caches the app will see. Select area, press search here on map, shows all caches in that area ... except it's limited. Gotta scroll across to see more. You may miss several off a series.

Footpaths are not shown

Waypoints are shown. Multys etc. However go to a town and you cannot see the road for waypoint flags.

 

Huge over inflated cost of anything that begins with an i - very limited operation. Apple decide how intelligent they will let you be.

 

Good luck. Well you asked.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Seaglass Pirates

[+redsox_mark]

You will get very polarized views, as some people cache with smartphones and love them (and have ditched their GPS), while others use and prefer a dedicated GPS.

 

If you are planning to get a smartphone anyway, then try it. Forgetting geocaching for a moment, a smartphone is a very useful device.

 

I have both an iphone 5s and a Oregon 600. Personally I use the Oregon as my primary geocaching device. That is my preference. But, in terms of accuracy I don't see much difference. I use the iphone for Wherigos (it DOES do them, the Oregon 600 does not), and for the occasional unplanned cache if I don't have my Oregon with me.

 

The safest thing to do is hold on to your 450 for a short while, and cache with the iphone for a week or 2. If you then decide that is they way for you and the 450 is no longer needed, then sell it.

[+niraD]

I have both an iphone 5s and a Oregon 600. Personally I use the Oregon as my primary geocaching device. That is my preference. But, in terms of accuracy I don't see much difference. I use the iphone for Wherigos (it DOES do them, the Oregon 600 does not), and for the occasional unplanned cache if I don't have my Oregon with me.

I have both an Android phone and an eXplorist. I use the Android for most of my geocaching, but a lot of my geocaching is opportunistic. And I have to use the Android for Wherigo caches and Intercaches. I mostly use the eXplorist when I'm planning a longer geocaching trip and need better battery life, or when I need a waterproof device, or when the terrain is rough and I need a device more durable than my phone.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

I use the iphone for Wherigos (it DOES do them, the Oregon 600 does not), and for the occasional unplanned cache if I don't have my Oregon with me.

 

Do you? erm

 

While Groundpeak is working to make Wherigo available on a larger number of devices, it will be a while before this happens. The best option for now is to make friends and share expereinces with those who have the technology

 

Can I use an iphone to play Wherigo? Not Currently, but we're looking into it

www.Wherigo.com/faq.aspx#iphone

 

lol ... or make friends with mark lol. Elsewhere on the web it states you can but you need to download an app ... which may or may not be free.

 

Ghasp ... didnt know that the 600 series didnt include a Wherigo player ... we do them all the time ... not. Meh we still have our 450 which does and of course the iphone *pushes fingers down throat*

[+redsox_mark]

 

While Groundpeak is working to make Wherigo available on a larger number of devices, it will be a while before this happens. The best option for now is to make friends and share expereinces with those who have the technology

 

Can I use an iphone to play Wherigo? Not Currently, but we're looking into it

www.Wherigo.com/faq.aspx#iphone

 

 

The Wherigo FAQ (as well as most of the Wherigo site) is well out of date. There is a free Wherigo app for both Iphone and Android phones. (I think also Windows phones).

 

Garmin has dropped support for Wherigo. It is not supported by the Montana, or the Oregon 600. Of course the older Colorado and Oregon models will still play them. The Monterra doesn't have any inbuilt support for Wherigo either.. though as the Monterra runs Android I assume you could download the Android app for it.

 

There is current advice on playing Wherigos on smartphones on the Wherigo forums.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

 

While Groundpeak is working to make Wherigo available on a larger number of devices, it will be a while before this happens. The best option for now is to make friends and share expereinces with those who have the technology

 

Can I use an iphone to play Wherigo? Not Currently, but we're looking into it

www.Wherigo.com/faq.aspx#iphone

 

 

The Wherigo FAQ (as well as most of the Wherigo site) is well out of date. There is a free Wherigo app for both Iphone and Android phones. (I think also Windows phones).

 

Garmin has dropped support for Wherigo. It is not supported by the Montana, or the Oregon 600. Of course the older Colorado and Oregon models will still play them. The Monterra doesn't have any inbuilt support for Wherigo either.. though as the Monterra runs Android I assume you could download the Android app for it.

 

There is current advice on playing Wherigos on smartphones on the Wherigo forums.

 

Its good to know about that iphone doing that. I mean have a car charger with double socket that runs of the cigarette lighter so we can keep ours full ish. Its always hand if you need more logs shown or if someone has given updated coords and then evryone says how helpful they were but you only have 6 logs on the GPS. Spoilers obviously but its all signal dependent. And here is not totally brilliant. You can have 4g and then 0.1 away no signal for a few miles. Have to give that a go ... a Wherigo ... cheers Mark

[+Ben0w]

@Seaglass Pirates: you seem to have a very biased view on the topic. Won't you tell us, why you feel this way?

 

No, really, you mention things which are a mix of hardware & operating system issues, app and handling. But there are more (officially licensed!) apps and handling behaviour than you might think.

 

Groundspeak's app seems not to be designed for real outdoor use, including focus on battery life and offline usage (maps, logs) - other apps are.

 

Battery life issues can be handled with an external battery pack, there even are solar modules on the market.

 

But you should stick to your way of things, if you can handle this better than others.

 

Just to answer the original posters question: GPS accuracy isn't the difference between a dedicated GPS receiver and a smartphone any more. In theory, a deficated GPSr may have advantages when speaking about antenna usage and hardware specifics, but that doesn't count much in the field, when the location specific accuracy influences come to effect (and to remind: GPS chips and firmware are much the same in all of them). It's really not much of a difference when GPS signals get reflected in the wood, or the cache owner took his "own" set of accuracy...

 

Both devices will take you in a good proximity of the cache, good enough for geocaching.

 

Best advice, totally device independent: get used to your device, know the pros and cons, master the handling in the field, practise, practise, practise.

 

(just for the records: personally, I use both - a cheap GPSr unit AND an iPhone, the latter loaded with several apps helping me in the field. My main geocaching app is "Looking4Cache Pro", built for true outdoor geocaching including battery protection/offline maps/offline logging, I do my complete cache tour organizing/preparing/aftermathing with it - no desktop computer needed, if it's not for special puzzles needing graphic software or such. Outside, I prefer my GPSr only in real rough terrain, just to protect the iPhone, which then better is securely packed away. It may ne of assistance even then, wrapped in a waterproof neck tied pocket. Anywhere else, my iPhone solely does it's work, the GPSr then is for the kids. I have an external battery pack with me, 5200mAh are sufficient for multiple reloads. Logging is done offline, just setting a time stamp in the field and maybe a short field note, then longer texts written afterwards from home - having no signal or poor data contract isn't an issue with this app. Since I have to carry a dedicated phone for work related issues anyway this is my backup system for emergeny situations.)

[+Seaglass Pirates]

@Seaglass Pirates: you seem to have a very biased view on the topic. Won't you tell us, why you feel this way?

 

Very biased ... I was going for total bias I guess I fell short lol. Its ok in a pinch ... would never trust it, hate the controlling nature of anything apple.

 

As for caching with it, I have had the app since its inception pretty much. Started caching with iphone 3gs and did that for just over a year. The other seaglass pirate had an oregon 450. I got an oregon 450 therafter and what a relief it was. So easy in comparison. I get the screen visibility issue I really do, but I have young eyes and tilting the screen removed reflection issues. Small price to pay which happened automatically. And we were able to go cache for a series instead of some of the series.

 

Then we moved on to the iphone 5. The app was excellent on that and massive increase in accuracy. The pros I have touched on and would include that if someone placed a cache out with an iphone and its a pig of a hide, its easier to find with an iphone. That said I would disagree that its as accurate as a dedicated GPS. Maybe in a country where the sun is shaded from the earth by a several layers of satellites but in this part of the UK, GPS is king.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

The caching app I use allows me to easily transfer cache information to my Oregon 600.

 

Curious about this comment. I've been looking for an app that would allow my Samsung 4S to communicate cache info to my Oregon 450. Which app are you using to talk to your 600?

[+niraD]

While Groundpeak is working to make Wherigo available on a larger number of devices, it will be a while before this happens. The best option for now is to make friends and share expereinces with those who have the technology

 

Can I use an iphone to play Wherigo? Not Currently, but we're looking into it

www.Wherigo.com/faq.aspx#iphone

Yeah, the Wherigo.com site isn't really current. There is more current info on the http://wherigofoundation.com/ site.

[+chasclifton]

I got my first smartphone (iPhone 5s) about a month ago and installed Looking4Cache lite. I have found a few caches with it, but here is a question/observation: Wouldn't the smartphone's quality deteriorate away from cities?

 

I prefer to cache in out-of-the-way places, and it seems that triangulating off cell towers and wifi networks is not going to be as good as getting coordinates from satellites, if that's a good comparison.

 

Case in point: Last month I had a rental car break down in the Arizona desert. The company's roadside assistance operator claimed to be able to locate me from my phone.

 

It's a good thing that the tow truck driver called me -- and I was able to give him the highway number and nearest mile marker -- because the location that he had been given by the company was a full ten miles in error.

[+niraD]

Wouldn't the smartphone's quality deteriorate away from cities?

A lot depends on whether you're using the GPS system, or whether you're using the other location services.

 

I've used my phones in Airplane Mode (which disables the cellular and wifi antennas), using just the GPS antenna. They've all worked fine.

 

I've also used my phones with the GPS antenna disabled. Then the location services have varied from "soft" to "wildly inaccurate".

[+BlackRose67]

I use an LG Optimus G for on the fly caching (i.e. when my GPS is at home, or I'm out and a new trad has been published nearby).

 

I still use a dedicated GPS when I am going to be caching for a long period of time, or I'll be somewhere where I need the ruggedness of the GPS.

In those cases, the phone is still with me as a support device.

[+chasclifton]

 

I've also used my phones with the GPS antenna disabled. Then the location services have varied from "soft" to "wildly inaccurate".

 

I think I see a comparison walk in the woods in my near future. It does seem to me that using location services sucks battery pretty fast, even compared to rechargeable AA's in my GPSr.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I've also used my phones with the GPS antenna disabled. Then the location services have varied from "soft" to "wildly inaccurate".

 

I think I see a comparison walk in the woods in my near future. It does seem to me that using location services sucks battery pretty fast, even compared to rechargeable AA's in my GPSr.

 

I notice that, in general, when I travel that battery life goes way down and think it's most likely to all the location enabled apps that I have loaded having to continuously try to determine the location.

 

One of the advantages of a smartphone is that it can use aGPS (assisted GPS) and cell tower triangulation to speed up the process to get an initial fix on satellites. When I travel with my handheld GPS some times it can take quite awhile to get an initial fix and that's got to be using up a lot of processor cycles.

 

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I got my first smartphone (iPhone 5s) about a month ago and installed Looking4Cache lite. I have found a few caches with it, but here is a question/observation: Wouldn't the smartphone's quality deteriorate away from cities?

 

Not necessarily. In fact, I've been in places in Manhattan where I could not get a satellite lock. If, however, you're someplace outside a city and in a location with heavy tree cover you might not be able to "see" as many satellites as you might in an open field in a city park.

 

 

I prefer to cache in out-of-the-way places, and it seems that triangulating off cell towers and wifi networks is not going to be as good as getting coordinates from satellites, if that's a good comparison.

 

Case in point: Last month I had a rental car break down in the Arizona desert. The company's roadside assistance operator claimed to be able to locate me from my phone.

 

It's a good thing that the tow truck driver called me -- and I was able to give him the highway number and nearest mile marker -- because the location that he had been given by the company was a full ten miles in error.

 

I suspect that although your smartphone has an integrated GPS chip, whatever they were using was only using cell phone triangulation or network router information to determine your location. A handheld GPS or smartphone with a GPS chip can accurately determine your location, and provide that information to you from the device, but only a smartphone can transmit that information to another location (such as a system for road side assistance and it needs cellular signals (or wifi) to do that.

Edited April 11, 2015 by NYPaddleCacher