Refused cache placements

[+barbie6803]

I have had a number of cache placements refused of late. When I put one on a bridge for example. I was told that I need permission from the Highways Agency and I have no idea who to contact and despite searching the web I still can't find a contact number. I put one on a telegraph pole and have been told that BT has refused ALL placements on their properties (which is ironic as one of the most popular placements can be found behind telephone junction boxes.) I want to put one near some local council owned garages but was told I needed permission from the council. I tried believe me I tried. The first person I contacted told me to contact someone else and so it went on until I was told to contact the very person that I had contacted in the first place. I was even told at one stage to contact the planning department, for a nano sized container! Some companies such as 'Anglian Water' don't even acknowledge my emails and others promise that they will forward my request to another department and someone will get back to me but they never do. Some were great however, organisations such as the National Trust, RSPB and my local Country Park.

So my question is:- Does anyone have a list of people who I could contact or advise me on how to go about it?

[+Gackt]

Have you seen or used the GAGB Land Agreements? Certainly for my area it has been very useful, directing me to exactly the right point of contact.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Gackt

[+barbie6803]

I live in Ipswich in Suffolk and there isn't any on this list for this area. The nearest is Bury St Edmunds which is 30miles away. But thanks for the info it maybe of use to others.

[+T.D.M.22]

So the problem is that there is no permission. Remember guidines state that permission is required for ALL cache hides, and you also say you have permission whenever you submit a cache( it won't let you otherwise)

 

You also say that there are caches on places there shouldn't be. Well maybe the reviewer didn't know(they do t actually find the caches to review them) or there could be permission, or maybe the cmpsny allowed existing caches to stay on their property. You don't know. Which brings another guidline: there is no precedent for cache placement. That is to say because a previous cache was allowed or not allowed, has no effect whatsoever on future hides. So the argument that there are other similar caches is not valid.

 

Your issue can be answered in the guidelines. Read them, learn them.

[+barbie6803]

So the problem is that there is no permission. Remember guidines state that permission is required for ALL cache hides, and you also say you have permission whenever you submit a cache( it won't let you otherwise)

 

You also say that there are caches on places there shouldn't be. Well maybe the reviewer didn't know(they do t actually find the caches to review them) or there could be permission, or maybe the cmpsny allowed existing caches to stay on their property. You don't know. Which brings another guidline: there is no precedent for cache placement. That is to say because a previous cache was allowed or not allowed, has no effect whatsoever on future hides. So the argument that there are other similar caches is not valid.

 

Your issue can be answered in the guidelines. Read them, learn them.

 

You are quite correct in assuming that I have not yet gained permission, but my problem is trying to work out from whom I need to get permission? Hence my question in the first instance. Help is being sought from members on this forum.

[+pklong]

You are quite correct that gaining permission is a time consuming and frustrating endeavor.

 

But no one is forcing any Geocacher place Caches, so my solution is not to place any more (at the moment) and just enjoy those aspects of the hobby I can fit around everything else I have to do and that I find fun.

 

There are plenty that seem to enjoy hunting down the correct landowner and gaining formal permission etc. and building up databases of that, so either use those databases or leave it to those who enjoy it, if it is becoming too much hassle.

 

Philip

[+barbie6803]

Apologies, I thought the forum was the place to ask for help. My mistake.

Time and trouble is not the issue but more to the point I want to get it right and ask the right people.

[+MartyBartfast]

The thing about permission is that the tick box on the hiding a cache page says (or used to, I haven't looked recently) that you have "adequate permission" and it's long been felt that in some circumstances having no explicit permission is adequate, so you will find that probably most caches have no explicit permission, however as you have found some places are totally out of bounds (e.g. phone boxes in the UK), and some places will be OK but the reviewer will ask to see proof of permission (e.g. church yards, or an SSSI in the UK).

 

Have a look here https://wiki.Groundspeak.com/display/GEO/United+Kingdom for UK specific information on where you can and can't place caches, and some suggestions about getting permission.

 

As for who to go to for permission, I can't really help much. It will depend on the organisation I suppose, but for the council I would have thought the parks department, or whichever department is responsible for recreation and open spaces.

 

Good luck with it.

[+redsox_mark]

MartyBartfast's reply said what I was going to say.

 

All I would add to the OP is that you have been unlucky. Road bridges are an area of focus. BT does have a policy against caches - though I've only seen this applied to phone boxes.. there are MANY caches at the base of telegraph poles. (But precedent does not apply etc). For the one near the council garages, I would guess the concern there is it looks like residential properties. You will likely find no issues in a council run park, it is the garages which are the issue.

[+Panther&Pine]

Apologies, I thought the forum was the place to ask for help. My mistake.

Time and trouble is not the issue but more to the point I want to get it right and ask the right people.

Did you read the GAGB link in the first reply?

Edited December 15, 2014 by Panther&Pine

[+NanCycle]

Apologies, I thought the forum was the place to ask for help. My mistake.

Time and trouble is not the issue but more to the point I want to get it right and ask the right people.

 

The forums are maybe not the place to ask for help but a great place to ask for help. However, anyone who expects that every reply will be right on the nose the specific answer to their question, is going to be disappointed. People who don't know the answer but have other points of view are also allowed to post their opinions.

[+KK112]

I have had a number of cache placements refused of late. When I put one on a bridge for example. I was told that I need permission from the Highways Agency and I have no idea who to contact and despite searching the web I still can't find a contact number. I put one on a telegraph pole and have been told that BT has refused ALL placements on their properties (which is ironic as one of the most popular placements can be found behind telephone junction boxes.) I want to put one near some local council owned garages but was told I needed permission from the council. I tried believe me I tried. The first person I contacted told me to contact someone else and so it went on until I was told to contact the very person that I had contacted in the first place. I was even told at one stage to contact the planning department, for a nano sized container! Some companies such as 'Anglian Water' don't even acknowledge my emails and others promise that they will forward my request to another department and someone will get back to me but they never do. Some were great however, organisations such as the National Trust, RSPB and my local Country Park.

So my question is:- Does anyone have a list of people who I could contact or advise me on how to go about it?

 

Looking at the Ipswich Borough Council senior management structure chart for 2014 the Parks and Open Spaces Operations Manager is called Tim Snook. You could try contacting him and ask what the councils policy towards geocaching is. It may well be that there isn't a policy as such matters are often left at Park Ranger level which can be very confusing for geocachers and park staff alike.

[+barbie6803]

I have had a number of cache placements refused of late. When I put one on a bridge for example. I was told that I need permission from the Highways Agency and I have no idea who to contact and despite searching the web I still can't find a contact number. I put one on a telegraph pole and have been told that BT has refused ALL placements on their properties (which is ironic as one of the most popular placements can be found behind telephone junction boxes.) I want to put one near some local council owned garages but was told I needed permission from the council. I tried believe me I tried. The first person I contacted told me to contact someone else and so it went on until I was told to contact the very person that I had contacted in the first place. I was even told at one stage to contact the planning department, for a nano sized container! Some companies such as 'Anglian Water' don't even acknowledge my emails and others promise that they will forward my request to another department and someone will get back to me but they never do. Some were great however, organisations such as the National Trust, RSPB and my local Country Park.

So my question is:- Does anyone have a list of people who I could contact or advise me on how to go about it?

 

Looking at the Ipswich Borough Council senior management structure chart for 2014 the Parks and Open Spaces Operations Manager is called Tim Snook. You could try contacting him and ask what the councils policy towards geocaching is. It may well be that there isn't a policy as such matters are often left at Park Ranger level which can be very confusing for geocachers and park staff alike.

Thank you, at last someone who is willing to give helpful advice rather than suggesting I just give up. Thank you KK112. I must admit that the park rangers in Ipswich have been on the ball and some either know about Geocaching or if not they have read the blurb which I attach to my email and have responded positively to my requests. But it is the council owned buildings and roads that I am struggling to get through to. But really appreciate your response.

[+KK112]

I have had a number of cache placements refused of late. When I put one on a bridge for example. I was told that I need permission from the Highways Agency and I have no idea who to contact and despite searching the web I still can't find a contact number. I put one on a telegraph pole and have been told that BT has refused ALL placements on their properties (which is ironic as one of the most popular placements can be found behind telephone junction boxes.) I want to put one near some local council owned garages but was told I needed permission from the council. I tried believe me I tried. The first person I contacted told me to contact someone else and so it went on until I was told to contact the very person that I had contacted in the first place. I was even told at one stage to contact the planning department, for a nano sized container! Some companies such as 'Anglian Water' don't even acknowledge my emails and others promise that they will forward my request to another department and someone will get back to me but they never do. Some were great however, organisations such as the National Trust, RSPB and my local Country Park.

So my question is:- Does anyone have a list of people who I could contact or advise me on how to go about it?

 

Looking at the Ipswich Borough Council senior management structure chart for 2014 the Parks and Open Spaces Operations Manager is called Tim Snook. You could try contacting him and ask what the councils policy towards geocaching is. It may well be that there isn't a policy as such matters are often left at Park Ranger level which can be very confusing for geocachers and park staff alike.

Thank you, at last someone who is willing to give helpful advice rather than suggesting I just give up. Thank you KK112. I must admit that the park rangers in Ipswich have been on the ball and some either know about Geocaching or if not they have read the blurb which I attach to my email and have responded positively to my requests. But it is the council owned buildings and roads that I am struggling to get through to. But really appreciate your response.

 

Hi Barbie6803, I gave you the incorrect contact for the Parks and Open Spaces Operations Manager, it should be Eddie Peters. Tim Snook is actually Sports and Leisure Operations manager, however when you consider geocaching is conducted in all areas then it could equally come under the remit of 'Leisure'. I would try and contact Eddie Peters and educate him about geocaching and the benefits it brings, explain the difficulties you are having with seeking approval and maybe you could acquaint him with Land owner agreements.