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Discordia19

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With the announcement of this year's CITO souvenir and having just published my first CITO events, I've been thinking a lot about stewardship and the power that geocaching potentially has (with reaching so many people worldwide)to make an enormous impact in cleaning up our communities, forests and parks

 

I think it would be wonderful if Groundspeak would make attending and/or hosting CITO events become official achievements such as with finds. For example, if there was a geoachievement for attending 25, 50, 100+ CITOS, or hosting 10, 50, 100+ CITO's with milestones and coins, it may start a movement among the geocaching community to participate much more with these types of events. Not only that, but with the expected increase in attendance and frequency of CITO events, it would be an amazing way for Groundspeak to become known for it's environmental awareness and activism which would do nothing but promote the sport in a manner which benefits everyone, cachers and non-cachers alike. It would also be a great way to get people involved with their local land managers and show the game in a very positive light.

 

I was wondering what you all would think of this concept? If there were CITO achievements, would it inspire you to attend more CITO events, or perhaps to host one of your own?

 

Just a thought....

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If you have not seen it, there is some CITO stuff here: http://shop.geocaching.com/default/gear/cito in the geocahing store. I am sure a quick search may give you a site with more of what you are suggesting. Or if you have the backing, you can create coins and sell them yourself.

 

As to the concept, I do not need to have an achivement to inspire me to attend or host a CITO event, would it be nice, yes, but not needed in my case. I have been researching hosting an event, CITO or other, local areas where I could hold said event, etc for some time now. The achievments would do nothing but be icing on the cake so to speak. At least for me. They may do better to inspire those others that, that sort of thing will motivate. So I could see them being a good thing, but for me personally, its a give or take type of thing.

 

Its a good thought, and has the potential to be a good postitive one.

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Perhaps Groundspeak should try having more annual CITO weekends rather than just Earth Day weekend? Perhaps sponsor them with CITO geocoins or shirts as random giveaways for attendees?

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Last year, like the year before, every CITO I attempted to attend required name, address, phone # and one wanted to verify with a drivers license.

At each, I asked if the people walking around the park had to do the same.

- When the answer was no and all were, I apologized to the CITO organizer and left or deleted my "will attend".

 

We attend a cacher's Adopt a Highway road cleanup on a major route.

The DOT doesn't ask us for personal info. They're happy for the help.

 

I'd hit every CITO in a 40 mile radius if bureaucrats weren't involved.

 

One funny one, a CITO, was taken over before it began, by an anal retentive, micro-managing new park director.

The CITO organizer was mortified...

A popular guy here in the forums used his caching name on the form and a fake address and he was able to attend. :lol:

- Our Government at work...

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So you're saying that to host a CITO event, I must require everyone to give up their address and phone number and if I want to attend one, I must give up the same info???

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So you're saying that to host a CITO event, I must require everyone to give up their address and phone number and if I want to attend one, I must give up the same info???

If you're talking to me, nope. I didn't say that. How did you get that out of my post?

 

What I'm getting at is, in my area, more would attend CITOs if there wasn't so much personal intrusion.

One, close by in another State, had over two dozen sign up. Once they found out (like me) that personal info had to be given out, five attended.

And no badge is gonna change that.

 

In other areas, parks are happy for the help and don't care who you are. You're just like all the others walking around playing frisbee.

Edited by cerberus1

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So you're saying that to host a CITO event, I must require everyone to give up their address and phone number and if I want to attend one, I must give up the same info???

I definitely wouldn't say that. I had never heard of that before. I've only attended one CITO so far, but it involved nothing like that. Maybe it's a local thing. I think if I had to give all that info to attend, I would do like cerberus1, and forget it.

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I have a two day campout CITO weekend coming up in a State Forest. The land manager was very happy that we were helping, the only request was that the State Forest's in NJ require their CITO volunteers to sign a liability waiver. I have the form here with me, and the only thing required is a signature, they don't require an address, phone number or anything else. Just my signature stating that I understand that I am picking up trash at my own risk. I don't think that it unreasonable at all.

 

Plus, I did put that the liability form had to be signed by all participants on the cache page, so that all who wanted to volunteer was aware of it ahead of time. I think that's only right.

Edited by Discordia19

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If you have not seen it, there is some CITO stuff here: http://shop.geocaching.com/default/gear/cito in the geocahing store. I am sure a quick search may give you a site with more of what you are suggesting. Or if you have the backing, you can create coins and sell them yourself.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I have already been in the "shop" and bought 4 CITO coins and 4 CITO trackables as door prizes for the event. As far as creating the coins myself, I know that is always an option, I guess I was just hoping that the coin production would come from Groundspeak so that they would be available to all and seen by all geocachers as a reason to attend more CITOs.

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As to the concept, I do not need to have an achivement to inspire me to attend or host a CITO event, would it be nice, yes, but not needed in my case. I have been researching hosting an event, CITO or other, local areas where I could hold said event, etc for some time now. The achievments would do nothing but be icing on the cake so to speak. At least for me. They may do better to inspire those others that, that sort of thing will motivate. So I could see them being a good thing, but for me personally, its a give or take type of thing.

 

Its a good thought, and has the potential to be a good postitive one.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that I do not need an achievement offer to attend or host CITO's. My family is planning on setting up a few of them after my Camp CITO weekend concludes in April. As avid campers and hikers, our family has always practice CITO, way before we were geocachers and had a name to put on it. Some discussions have been going around in my area about how we can spread the message to more people to get involved in CITO's. I was just thinking that if Groundspeak were to back an achievement in regards to this, it may be able to spread to more people and more areas faster than in just a more localized manner. I appreciate your thoughts! Thanks!

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I think it would be wonderful if Groundspeak would make attending and/or hosting CITO events become official achievements such as with finds. For example, if there was a geoachievement for attending 25, 50, 100+ CITOS, or hosting 10, 50, 100+ CITO's with milestones and coins, it may start a movement among the geocaching community to participate much more with these types of events.

 

I don't think having achievement levels based on number of CITO events visited would have good results. I think it would encourage some people to attempt to show up at as many CITO events as they can. If some one is trying to attended as many CITO events as they can then how can they possible be doing any actual CITO?

 

If I was a CITO organizer I would want people to stick around for the clean up part of the event. I wouldn't want people to show their face for a couple of seconds, not helping with any of the clean up, and then running off to the next CITO event. CITO should be about improving an area and not about increasing ones find count.

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I don't think having achievement levels based on number of CITO events visited would have good results. I think it would encourage some people to attempt to show up at as many CITO events as they can. If some one is trying to attended as many CITO events as they can then how can they possible be doing any actual CITO?

 

If I was a CITO organizer I would want people to stick around for the clean up part of the event. I wouldn't want people to show their face for a couple of seconds, not helping with any of the clean up, and then running off to the next CITO event. CITO should be about improving an area and not about increasing ones find count.

 

Thanks for your input! This is exactly what I was hoping for, to see if from different points of views from other cachers.

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I think it would be wonderful if Groundspeak would make attending and/or hosting CITO events become official achievements such as with finds. For example, if there was a geoachievement for attending 25, 50, 100+ CITOS, or hosting 10, 50, 100+ CITO's with milestones and coins, it may start a movement among the geocaching community to participate much more with these types of events. Not only that, but with the expected increase in attendance and frequency of CITO events, it would be an amazing way for Groundspeak to become known for it's environmental awareness and activism which would do nothing but promote the sport in a manner which benefits everyone, cachers and non-cachers alike. It would also be a great way to get people involved with their local land managers and show the game in a very positive light.

 

I was wondering what you all would think of this concept? If there were CITO achievements, would it inspire you to attend more CITO events, or perhaps to host one of your own?

 

Just a thought....

We've noticed events where folks say howdy and split - off to another, sometimes taking a pic, as no one ever remembers them attending.

- I'd rather see CITO attendees actually doing something.

I'd like to see them attending because they believe in CITO, not just adding to their smiley count and stats - or acquiring a badge.

 

Where do you see an expected increase of attendance in CITO coming from?

- This isn't the first CITO day...

I appreciate the fact that you're now interested and organizing CITOs of your own added to your excitement, but I think you're expectations may be a little too high.

We've been to a CITO and attended a regular event hours later only a few miles away. The attendance at the regular event was easily six-to-one.

People that go to these want to attend and they wouldn't need an enticement.

Heck, I don't even log most of the ones I attend for the "smiley"...

 

I thought Groundspeak was already known for their environmental awareness.

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I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the CITO forum.

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We've noticed events where folks say howdy and split - off to another, sometimes taking a pic, as no one ever remembers them attending.

- I'd rather see CITO attendees actually doing something.

I'd like to see them attending because they believe in CITO, not just adding to their smiley count and stats - or acquiring a badge.

 

Where do you see an expected increase of attendance in CITO coming from?

- This isn't the first CITO day...

I appreciate the fact that you're now interested and organizing CITOs of your own added to your excitement, but I think you're expectations may be a little too high.

We've been to a CITO and attended a regular event hours later only a few miles away. The attendance at the regular event was easily six-to-one.

People that go to these want to attend and they wouldn't need an enticement.

Heck, I don't even log most of the ones I attend for the "smiley"...

 

I thought Groundspeak was already known for their environmental awareness.

Thank you for your input. I apologize if I made you upset by my suggestion. I agree that I would want to host and attend CITO's even if I never got a smiley for it. My family has always been passionate about being in the woods and responsibly taking care of them (I remember a lesson my mother gave us about Stewardship when we were young.) Again, it was merely a suggestion to increase participation and was not meant to cause any animosity. Thank you for your opinion, it is appreciated.

Edited by Discordia19

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So you're saying that to host a CITO event, I must require everyone to give up their address and phone number and if I want to attend one, I must give up the same info???

If you're talking to me, nope. I didn't say that. How did you get that out of my post?

 

What I'm getting at is, in my area, more would attend CITOs if there wasn't so much personal intrusion.

One, close by in another State, had over two dozen sign up. Once they found out (like me) that personal info had to be given out, five attended.

And no badge is gonna change that.

 

In other areas, parks are happy for the help and don't care who you are. You're just like all the others walking around playing frisbee.

 

No I was responding in general to your post. If I was talking to you specificly, I would have quoted you as I am doing now. As to how I got my post from your post,

 

Last year, like the year before, every CITO I attempted to attend required name, address, phone # and one wanted to verify with a drivers license.

At each, I asked if the people walking around the park had to do the same.

- When the answer was no and all were, I apologized to the CITO organizer and left or deleted my "will attend".

 

You said the above quote at the begining of your post. Being as I have not seen nor attended a CITO event in my area, the impression I got from your wording was that, that was how they were conducted. And as a personal choice, you chose to leave and not give up the required personal information. So if I understood it wrong, then I stand corrected. After reading your post and responding, I looked up CITO on the site and got some more info on it and how to host an event. I did not see anything in the guidelines that said that your personal info was required, however it did not say that it couldn't be required either. So I see a small grey area that Groundspeak may need to address to clarify for future events. The only way I could see this being allowed is if it was for a raffle where the drawing was on a date other than during the time of the event.

 

If the organizer wanted to track data on how far away people were traveling to attend the event, I could understand signing the log book and requiring your zip code or area code only of your phone number.

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As to the concept, I do not need to have an achivement to inspire me to attend or host a CITO event, would it be nice, yes, but not needed in my case. I have been researching hosting an event, CITO or other, local areas where I could hold said event, etc for some time now. The achievments would do nothing but be icing on the cake so to speak. At least for me. They may do better to inspire those others that, that sort of thing will motivate. So I could see them being a good thing, but for me personally, its a give or take type of thing.

 

Its a good thought, and has the potential to be a good postitive one.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that I do not need an achievement offer to attend or host CITO's. My family is planning on setting up a few of them after my Camp CITO weekend concludes in April. As avid campers and hikers, our family has always practice CITO, way before we were geocachers and had a name to put on it. Some discussions have been going around in my area about how we can spread the message to more people to get involved in CITO's. I was just thinking that if Groundspeak were to back an achievement in regards to this, it may be able to spread to more people and more areas faster than in just a more localized manner. I appreciate your thoughts! Thanks!

 

The only way I see this having the intended effect is if the achievments were looked at and counted like community service hours. In this way it would encurrage people to stay longer and help with the cleanup. However, there would be a need for a back check system so that a person could not say that they were there for 12hours when the event was only 8 hours long and they were there for only 3 hours. The only way I see this happening is addind special permissions to the event page where the event host can verify the hours a person was there with the person being able to input their time into their attended log. But then this also requires the host of the event to have a time sheet where everyone signs in and out thier times.

 

I could see this working, but being very complex and taxing on the event host. The end result could be less CITO events.

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In reality, there are always going to people some people who try to cheat the system. Whether it be card counters, people cheating on tests, logging virtuals and earthcaches without going there, or finding puzzle spoilers instead of putting in the effort to solve them. That being said, should this mean that because a small percentage of people will always behave this way, that we should not make an effort or attempt at good deeds? If people who have changed the world for the better (i.e. Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Ghandi) were disheartened to stop working towards their noble causes because of the few that aren't honest or who don't agree with them, imagine what this world would be like today. There will always be some who won't play by the "rules", but that is the exception, not the majority. Promoting a worthy cause such as a CITO can not be looked at from the perspective of some people not pitching in and just collecting the "smiley", it must be looked at from the view of the difference that those who did participate have made. Just some food for thought....

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Discordia, given the situation in our state (NJ has issued a moritorium on cache placements on state land) I suspect a permit system will develop. If it is modeled after some other jurisdictions that allow geocachers to trade "service time" for cache placement fees I think you will see more CITO participation.

 

cerberus1: would you object to signing a waiver without all the other information?

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So you're saying that to host a CITO event, I must require everyone to give up their address and phone number and if I want to attend one, I must give up the same info???

If you're talking to me, nope. I didn't say that. How did you get that out of my post?

 

What I'm getting at is, in my area, more would attend CITOs if there wasn't so much personal intrusion.

One, close by in another State, had over two dozen sign up. Once they found out (like me) that personal info had to be given out, five attended.

And no badge is gonna change that.

 

In other areas, parks are happy for the help and don't care who you are. You're just like all the others walking around playing frisbee.

 

No I was responding in general to your post. If I was talking to you specificly, I would have quoted you as I am doing now. As to how I got my post from your post,

 

Last year, like the year before, every CITO I attempted to attend required name, address, phone # and one wanted to verify with a drivers license.

At each, I asked if the people walking around the park had to do the same.

- When the answer was no and all were, I apologized to the CITO organizer and left or deleted my "will attend".

 

You said the above quote at the begining of your post. Being as I have not seen nor attended a CITO event in my area, the impression I got from your wording was that, that was how they were conducted. And as a personal choice, you chose to leave and not give up the required personal information. So if I understood it wrong, then I stand corrected. After reading your post and responding, I looked up CITO on the site and got some more info on it and how to host an event. I did not see anything in the guidelines that said that your personal info was required, however it did not say that it couldn't be required either. So I see a small grey area that Groundspeak may need to address to clarify for future events. The only way I could see this being allowed is if it was for a raffle where the drawing was on a date other than during the time of the event.

 

If the organizer wanted to track data on how far away people were traveling to attend the event, I could understand signing the log book and requiring your zip code or area code only of your phone number.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, you did read the rest of that post, right?

- It's the park managers that are requiring this information, as if picking up a plastic bottle will suddenly present a liability issue, while the six year old climbing a tree isn't.

The information required in some areas doesn't have anything to do with Groundspeak or the event organizer. The reason I pass on it.

 

Michaelcycle: I've signed many waivers, both in CITO and in climbing/rapelling.

I can kinda understand that need.

Still, think that lady "picking up" after walking her dog filled one out?

We CITO every time we're out. In fact, CJ makes so much with the cans, we're able to buy things for the kids at most events we attend for zip outta our pockets.

Say I'm just walking along and as I see a can - pick it up.

Hopefully most of you do it.

- Now, what's the difference if I'm in a group?

Edited by cerberus1

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It might be a good idea to open a separate discussion thread about land managers who ask CITO participants to sign liability waivers. I could move posts from here to there. This thread is about "recognizing CITO achievements."

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So you're saying that to host a CITO event, I must require everyone to give up their address and phone number and if I want to attend one, I must give up the same info???

If you're talking to me, nope. I didn't say that. How did you get that out of my post?

 

What I'm getting at is, in my area, more would attend CITOs if there wasn't so much personal intrusion.

One, close by in another State, had over two dozen sign up. Once they found out (like me) that personal info had to be given out, five attended.

And no badge is gonna change that.

 

In other areas, parks are happy for the help and don't care who you are. You're just like all the others walking around playing frisbee.

 

No I was responding in general to your post. If I was talking to you specificly, I would have quoted you as I am doing now. As to how I got my post from your post,

 

Last year, like the year before, every CITO I attempted to attend required name, address, phone # and one wanted to verify with a drivers license.

At each, I asked if the people walking around the park had to do the same.

- When the answer was no and all were, I apologized to the CITO organizer and left or deleted my "will attend".

 

You said the above quote at the begining of your post. Being as I have not seen nor attended a CITO event in my area, the impression I got from your wording was that, that was how they were conducted. And as a personal choice, you chose to leave and not give up the required personal information. So if I understood it wrong, then I stand corrected. After reading your post and responding, I looked up CITO on the site and got some more info on it and how to host an event. I did not see anything in the guidelines that said that your personal info was required, however it did not say that it couldn't be required either. So I see a small grey area that Groundspeak may need to address to clarify for future events. The only way I could see this being allowed is if it was for a raffle where the drawing was on a date other than during the time of the event.

 

If the organizer wanted to track data on how far away people were traveling to attend the event, I could understand signing the log book and requiring your zip code or area code only of your phone number.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, you did read the rest of that post, right?

- It's the park managers that are requiring this information, as if picking up a plastic bottle will suddenly present a liability issue, while the six year old climbing a tree isn't.

The information required in some areas doesn't have anything to do with Groundspeak or the event organizer. The reason I pass on it.

 

Michaelcycle: I've signed many waivers, both in CITO and in climbing/rapelling.

I can kinda understand that need.

Still, think that lady "picking up" after walking her dog filled one out?

We CITO every time we're out. In fact, CJ makes so much with the cans, we're able to buy things for the kids at most events we attend for zip outta our pockets.

Say I'm just walking along and as I see a can - pick it up.

Hopefully most of you do it.

- Now, what's the difference if I'm in a group?

 

I read that post several times and still understood it as it was the event organizer requiring the persional info. So the way it was interperted on my end was different and not clear enough with the wording used.

 

To stay on topic though, if an achievment system were to be implemented and tracked properly, I can see it be benificial, however under the current system it would do more harm than good. The current system tracks your finds/attends and assigns a +1 to them, after so many +1s your get a cookie. To those who that matters to, if you show up to a CITO, sign in, say hi, then fade out and leave, you can log your attended log for the event and get your +1 with no work or further incentive to be more active.

 

Just my opinion.

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*Sigh* I remember when CITO events were about people willingly giving their time back to the community and the lands that we enjoy. Long before it was about getting a souvenir or unlocking an achievement. Can it not just be about that any more? No offense but I'm starting to think people are missing the point of what CITO is all about.

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*Sigh* I remember when CITO events were about people willingly giving their time back to the community and the lands that we enjoy. Long before it was about getting a souvenir or unlocking an achievement. Can it not just be about that any more? No offense but I'm starting to think people are missing the point of what CITO is all about.

 

I couldn't agree more and as I stated in a previous post, I personally could care less about being rewarded in some form other than I know I did a good job and helped by doing my part, as a member of a few other groups that use and respect the land for recreation, it's not always about what I can get for myself. Unfortunatly, we live in and with the "me" generation, and the only time they will do for others is when they get something for themselves back in return. So as sad as it may be to those of us who will willingly give our time without the expectation of something in return, I say if it helps to bring more bodies to aid in the cause or goal, so be it. To each their own.

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Similar to the souvenir, it is simply a way to say "thank you" to those who do participate and perhaps give some encouragement to those who do not actively participate currently. I think that any reason at all to encourage people to practice CITO is a positive thing and does no harm, only good.

Edited by Discordia19

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