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Moun10Bike

Can a Smartphone Replace a Dedicated GPS?

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Some stats of interest:

 

In the past year, using my Samsung Galaxy Note 2, I have:

 

  • Found over 600 geocaches
  • Hidden 15 geocaches
  • 2 of these geocaches were events. 1 of these events had 61 people attending and I took 49 waypoints for the event

 

No complaints about accuracy. In fact, I've had people compliment me on the reliability of my coords.

 

While I understand that some smartphones may not be accurate enough for geocaching, the fact remains that many are.

 

Okay, Incredibles, how about an update after two years (eons when it comes to technology) that will further silence your critics?!

 

I like your earlier point about user error. If phones tend to be used by newer cachers (less experienced), then they are probably not using averaging and other techniques that *any* device benefits from.

 

I'm flattered you're still thinking of me. The fact is, I'm not caching much these days, so I haven't got any more impressive stats. However, when I do go caching, it's with a smartphone. I've been using the Note 2, but recently bought an iPhone 5S and it works just great. I've even got an Otter Box Defender for it, with a built-in screen protector. I don't miss my Garmin Oregon 550 at all.

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Some stats of interest:

 

In the past year, using my Samsung Galaxy Note 2, I have:

 

  • Found over 600 geocaches
  • Hidden 15 geocaches
  • 2 of these geocaches were events. 1 of these events had 61 people attending and I took 49 waypoints for the event

 

No complaints about accuracy. In fact, I've had people compliment me on the reliability of my coords.

 

While I understand that some smartphones may not be accurate enough for geocaching, the fact remains that many are.

 

Okay, Incredibles, how about an update after two years (eons when it comes to technology) that will further silence your critics?!

 

I like your earlier point about user error. If phones tend to be used by newer cachers (less experienced), then they are probably not using averaging and other techniques that *any* device benefits from.

 

I'm flattered you're still thinking of me. The fact is, I'm not caching much these days, so I haven't got any more impressive stats. However, when I do go caching, it's with a smartphone. I've been using the Note 2, but recently bought an iPhone 5S and it works just great. I've even got an Otter Box Defender for it, with a built-in screen protector. I don't miss my Garmin Oregon 550 at all.

 

Thanks for shedding light, not heat, on this controversial subject.

 

I'd be interested in hearing about more recent scientific tests like the one mentioned in the first post (2 years ago). When cell phones are used with a map function giving turn-by-turn driving directions, they seem to know exactly which lane you're in, etc. But what is the exact accuracy - not in any of our opinions, but in a rigorous scientific test done in 2016 (not earlier)?

 

That's what I'm curious about. And if we can do our own "meta-analysis" here using 2 or 3 studies, even better!

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I'd be interested in hearing about more recent scientific tests like the one mentioned in the first post (2 years ago). When cell phones are used with a map function giving turn-by-turn driving directions, they seem to know exactly which lane you're in, etc. But what is the exact accuracy - not in any of our opinions, but in a rigorous scientific test done in 2016 (not earlier)?

 

That's what I'm curious about. And if we can do our own "meta-analysis" here using 2 or 3 studies, even better!

 

There's a good idea for an event cache for you.

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Some stats of interest:

 

In the past year, using my Samsung Galaxy Note 2, I have:

 

  • Found over 600 geocaches
  • Hidden 15 geocaches
  • 2 of these geocaches were events. 1 of these events had 61 people attending and I took 49 waypoints for the event

 

No complaints about accuracy. In fact, I've had people compliment me on the reliability of my coords.

 

While I understand that some smartphones may not be accurate enough for geocaching, the fact remains that many are.

 

Okay, Incredibles, how about an update after two years (eons when it comes to technology) that will further silence your critics?!

 

I like your earlier point about user error. If phones tend to be used by newer cachers (less experienced), then they are probably not using averaging and other techniques that *any* device benefits from.

 

I'm flattered you're still thinking of me. The fact is, I'm not caching much these days, so I haven't got any more impressive stats. However, when I do go caching, it's with a smartphone. I've been using the Note 2, but recently bought an iPhone 5S and it works just great. I've even got an Otter Box Defender for it, with a built-in screen protector. I don't miss my Garmin Oregon 550 at all.

 

Thanks for shedding light, not heat, on this controversial subject.

 

I'd be interested in hearing about more recent scientific tests like the one mentioned in the first post (2 years ago). When cell phones are used with a map function giving turn-by-turn driving directions, they seem to know exactly which lane you're in, etc. But what is the exact accuracy - not in any of our opinions, but in a rigorous scientific test done in 2016 (not earlier)?

 

That's what I'm curious about. And if we can do our own "meta-analysis" here using 2 or 3 studies, even better!

 

i've recorded tracks off road that show very little change between devices on hilly terrain, with full leaf cover. depending on the obstacles (tree down) the left and right avoidances can be seen in the tracks, but when overlayed and compared with one another, there is very little difference.

 

i've also recorded tracks (lots of them) while traveling multi-lane roads. it's very easy to pick out the lane changes while traveling at speed (40-70mph) when reviewing the tracks.

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I'd be interested in hearing about more recent scientific tests like the one mentioned in the first post (2 years ago). When cell phones are used with a map function giving turn-by-turn driving directions, they seem to know exactly which lane you're in, etc. But what is the exact accuracy - not in any of our opinions, but in a rigorous scientific test done in 2016 (not earlier)?

 

That's what I'm curious about. And if we can do our own "meta-analysis" here using 2 or 3 studies, even better!

 

Well, one study by placeiq in May 2016, concluded that smartphones in an urban environment are accurate to 93 feet on average, depending on the city. The study was aimed at the marketing implications of smartphone location data, and I am certainly not qualified to comment on its methodology or conclusions. It did not compare how smartphones differ with consumer-grade dedicated gpsr units under these conditions.

 

Ken Joyce (a senior project manager at Trimble) conducted a 2015 test using the iphone 5 and a Galaxy 5s and found that those units had a 3-6 meter accuracy under clear sky, with errors as large as 8 meters in conditions with multipath problems. His conclusions are more in keeping with my experience.

 

As a side note, there is work being done on the antenna's multipath suppression - I am even less qualified to understand that kind of data -- but the goal is to get consumer grade centimeter accuracy. Samsung is currently funding a study in Austin on precise navigation that would make low-cost precision available to to the mass-market. Since it uses reference stations to create an infrastructure, its primary use would probably be in urban areas with vehicle navigation (self-driving cars?) rather than helping people find containers or pokemon.

Edited by geodarts

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I'd be interested in hearing about more recent scientific tests like the one mentioned in the first post (2 years ago). When cell phones are used with a map function giving turn-by-turn driving directions, they seem to know exactly which lane you're in, etc. But what is the exact accuracy - not in any of our opinions, but in a rigorous scientific test done in 2016 (not earlier)?

 

That's what I'm curious about. And if we can do our own "meta-analysis" here using 2 or 3 studies, even better!

 

Well, one study by placeiq in May 2016, concluded that smartphones in an urban environment are accurate to 93 feet on average, depending on the city. The study was aimed at the marketing implications of smartphone location data, and I am certainly not qualified to comment on its methodology or conclusions. It did not compare how smartphones differ with consumer-grade dedicated gpsr units under these conditions.

 

Ken Joyce (a senior project manager at Trimble) conducted a 2015 test using the iphone 5 and a Galaxy 5s and found that those units had a 3-6 meter accuracy under clear sky, with errors as large as 8 meters in conditions with multipath problems. His conclusions are more in keeping with my experience.

 

As a side note, there is work being done on the antenna's multipath suppression - I am even less qualified to understand that kind of data -- but the goal is to get consumer grade centimeter accuracy. Samsung is currently funding a study in Austin on precise navigation with the goal of making low-cost precision available to to the mass-market. It uses reference stations to create an infrastructure -- its primary use would probably be in urban areas with vehicle navigation rather than helping people find containers or pokemon.

 

you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

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you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

Actually studies are needed, controlled studies that test more than a single device in a specific environment. And manufacturers require such testing.

But for our case in the forums, first hand experience is indeed invaluable. But while not everyone's experience is the same, they should statistically hover around the findings of any studies.

 

In essence, if the study reveals a device can achieve 3-6m accuracy, but someone only gets 10-20 at best, then we know there's some other factor at play in that person's case (whether environmental or hardware or what have you); something we'd not know if it weren't for official studies (assuming of course the findings from the studies are legitimate and accurate :))

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you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

Actually studies are needed, controlled studies that test more than a single device in a specific environment. And manufacturers require such testing.

But for our case in the forums, first hand experience is indeed invaluable. But while not everyone's experience is the same, they should statistically hover around the findings of any studies.

 

In essence, if the study reveals a device can achieve 3-6m accuracy, but someone only gets 10-20 at best, then we know there's some other factor at play in that person's case (whether environmental or hardware or what have you); something we'd not know if it weren't for official studies (assuming of course the findings from the studies are legitimate and accurate :))

 

official studies lie

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you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

Actually studies are needed, controlled studies that test more than a single device in a specific environment. And manufacturers require such testing.

But for our case in the forums, first hand experience is indeed invaluable. But while not everyone's experience is the same, they should statistically hover around the findings of any studies.

 

In essence, if the study reveals a device can achieve 3-6m accuracy, but someone only gets 10-20 at best, then we know there's some other factor at play in that person's case (whether environmental or hardware or what have you); something we'd not know if it weren't for official studies (assuming of course the findings from the studies are legitimate and accurate :))

 

official studies lie

 

Then I guess we're just doomed to endless heated, opinionated debate! :ph34r::signalviolin:

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official studies lie

 

Of course. And http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php is all true....

 

To get to the bottom of this, I say a study of the reliability of studies is called for. There *have* been some phony studies.

 

Google "phony studies" and the list is endless!

Edited by wmpastor

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Google "phony studies" and the list is endless!

 

....just not quite as endless as "conspiracy theories"

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Here is my study. Delorme PN60 geocache located. Accuracy plus minus 6 feet.

My GZ was within 4 feet. Friends smartphone

Geocaching APP. Same geocache accuracy plus minus 32 feet. His GZ showed 38 feet.

I place a cache people say wow dead on.

Those who hide one with smartphone get told

Crappy coords. Which is better? Mine! It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

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Google "phony studies" and the list is endless!

 

....just not quite as endless as "conspiracy theories"

 

You seem quite the defender of studies! Did you conduct any smartphone studies?

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Here is my study. Delorme PN60 geocache located. Accuracy plus minus 6 feet.

My GZ was within 4 feet. Friends smartphone

Geocaching APP. Same geocache accuracy plus minus 32 feet. His GZ showed 38 feet.

I place a cache people say wow dead on.

Those who hide one with smartphone get told

Crappy coords. Which is better? Mine! It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

Hmmm, veery scientific!

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you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

Actually studies are needed, controlled studies that test more than a single device in a specific environment. And manufacturers require such testing.

But for our case in the forums, first hand experience is indeed invaluable. But while not everyone's experience is the same, they should statistically hover around the findings of any studies.

 

In essence, if the study reveals a device can achieve 3-6m accuracy, but someone only gets 10-20 at best, then we know there's some other factor at play in that person's case (whether environmental or hardware or what have you); something we'd not know if it weren't for official studies (assuming of course the findings from the studies are legitimate and accurate :))

 

official studies lie

 

Then I guess we're just doomed to endless heated, opinionated debate! :ph34r::signalviolin:

 

it's easier to walk outside and test things for ourselves. :-)

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Here is my study. Delorme PN60 geocache located. Accuracy plus minus 6 feet.

My GZ was within 4 feet. Friends smartphone

Geocaching APP. Same geocache accuracy plus minus 32 feet. His GZ showed 38 feet.

I place a cache people say wow dead on.

Those who hide one with smartphone get told

Crappy coords. Which is better? Mine! It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

which phone?

which cache?

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you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

Actually studies are needed, controlled studies that test more than a single device in a specific environment. And manufacturers require such testing.

But for our case in the forums, first hand experience is indeed invaluable. But while not everyone's experience is the same, they should statistically hover around the findings of any studies.

 

In essence, if the study reveals a device can achieve 3-6m accuracy, but someone only gets 10-20 at best, then we know there's some other factor at play in that person's case (whether environmental or hardware or what have you); something we'd not know if it weren't for official studies (assuming of course the findings from the studies are legitimate and accurate :))

 

official studies lie

 

Then I guess we're just doomed to endless heated, opinionated debate! :ph34r::signalviolin:

 

it's easier to walk outside and test things for ourselves. :-)

Sure, that'll tell us what our 1-3 devices do. Now what about the $1,000+ cost of several more devices to get even a small sample? :yikes:

 

The personal test? Been there, done that, with many of us. What about a *comprehensive* test??

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Here is my study. Delorme PN60 geocache located. Accuracy plus minus 6 feet.

My GZ was within 4 feet. Friends smartphone

Geocaching APP. Same geocache accuracy plus minus 32 feet. His GZ showed 38 feet.

I place a cache people say wow dead on.

Those who hide one with smartphone get told

Crappy coords. Which is better? Mine! It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

which phone?

which cache?

 

The Samsung Universal 9500mAh Battery Pack lets you carry more power in your pocket. With an integrated Micro USB cable, plus an additional USB port for universal charging, you can power up most Micro USB and USB devices, including smartphones, tablets, and more. The stylish 9500mAh Battery Pack shares the same attractive, iconic Samsung stitched-leather look that has come to be recognized on Samsung's high end smartphones and tablets. Available in a white or black design that's guaranteed to catch a few eyes. When you show others what the 9500mAh Battery Pack can do, you may be asked to spare some charge for your friends' devices as well.

[/Quote]

 

Now do you see why I say "A test! My kingdom for a comprehensive, objective test!"?

:anibad:

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Which is better? Mine! It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

Sure, they can change the battery. They can also plug it into a battery pack.

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you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

Actually studies are needed, controlled studies that test more than a single device in a specific environment. And manufacturers require such testing.

But for our case in the forums, first hand experience is indeed invaluable. But while not everyone's experience is the same, they should statistically hover around the findings of any studies.

 

In essence, if the study reveals a device can achieve 3-6m accuracy, but someone only gets 10-20 at best, then we know there's some other factor at play in that person's case (whether environmental or hardware or what have you); something we'd not know if it weren't for official studies (assuming of course the findings from the studies are legitimate and accurate :))

 

official studies lie

 

Then I guess we're just doomed to endless heated, opinionated debate! :ph34r::signalviolin:

 

it's easier to walk outside and test things for ourselves. :-)

Sure, that'll tell us what our 1-3 devices do. Now what about the $1,000+ cost of several more devices to get even a small sample? :yikes:

 

The personal test? Been there, done that, with many of us. What about a *comprehensive* test??

 

the number of devices available in either non cellular or cellular supporting hardware, would make this spreadsheet vague and huge. then there is the issue with "did the reviewer have enough sense to USE the GPS antenna instead of cellular triangulation?" and other things... which is why i point to a person thinking, testing and acting for themselves. :-)

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you don't need studies. go outside and drop a waypoint, then visit it again tomorrow. or heck, do it inside. in my basement garage, +/- 10ft is normal. outside its closer, everywhere

Actually studies are needed, controlled studies that test more than a single device in a specific environment. And manufacturers require such testing.

But for our case in the forums, first hand experience is indeed invaluable. But while not everyone's experience is the same, they should statistically hover around the findings of any studies.

 

In essence, if the study reveals a device can achieve 3-6m accuracy, but someone only gets 10-20 at best, then we know there's some other factor at play in that person's case (whether environmental or hardware or what have you); something we'd not know if it weren't for official studies (assuming of course the findings from the studies are legitimate and accurate :))

 

official studies lie

 

Then I guess we're just doomed to endless heated, opinionated debate! :ph34r::signalviolin:

 

it's easier to walk outside and test things for ourselves. :-)

Sure, that'll tell us what our 1-3 devices do. Now what about the $1,000+ cost of several more devices to get even a small sample? :yikes:

 

The personal test? Been there, done that, with many of us. What about a *comprehensive* test??

 

the number of devices available in either non cellular or cellular supporting hardware, would make this spreadsheet vague and huge. then there is the issue with "did the reviewer have enough sense to USE the GPS antenna instead of cellular triangulation?" and other things... which is why i point to a person thinking, testing and acting for themselves. :-)

 

So you create a checklist of control variables to ensure conditions of each test are equivalent and you have multiple test subjects use each device to minimize the risk of single user error. It would be wise to have more than one one of each device to mitigate the risk of device failure and defect as well.

 

You obviously use better software than a spreadsheet to capture the data from the variables being controlled and tested. The variables would also include device specs. Then after testing the analysis can control for the differences between devices.

 

(Or we could just admit that the accuracy differences between consumer grade devices used correctly are negligible for the purposes of geocaching and recognize that the phone vs. handhelp GPS argument is an unwinnable Coke vs. Pepsi, personal use and preference issue.)

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(Or we could just admit that the accuracy differences between consumer grade devices used correctly are negligible for the purposes of geocaching and recognize that the phone vs. handhelp GPS argument is an unwinnable Coke vs. Pepsi, personal use and preference issue.)

[/Quote]

 

I completely agree that that's where things stand. I just asked those who think there are better or best devices to let us know of recent tests.

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(Or we could just admit that the accuracy differences between consumer grade devices used correctly are negligible for the purposes of geocaching and recognize that the phone vs. handhelp GPS argument is an unwinnable Coke vs. Pepsi, personal use and preference issue.)

[/Quote]

 

I completely agree that that's where things stand. I just asked those who think there are better or best devices to let us know of recent tests.

 

It's interesting that there is so much opposition to a test that could be reasonably conducted and analyzed by a middle schooler.

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(Or we could just admit that the accuracy differences between consumer grade devices used correctly are negligible for the purposes of geocaching and recognize that the phone vs. handhelp GPS argument is an unwinnable Coke vs. Pepsi, personal use and preference issue.)

[/Quote]

 

I completely agree that that's where things stand. I just asked those who think there are better or best devices to let us know of recent tests.

 

It's interesting that there is so much opposition to a test that could be reasonably conducted and analyzed by a middle schooler.

 

There was a test mentioned earlier in the thread that sounded well done - but it's several years old and I'm sure that most of the devices have evolved.

 

Maybe it's apathy - they all serve their purpose pretty well, so why spend time and money putting them under the microscope?

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It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

This is not true.

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It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

This is not true.

 

This is true of my phone. No way to switch out the battery.

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It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

This is not true.

 

Right. Busted by the fact-checkers! (See, this is why I'm looking for a *study*!)

 

Take Samsung’s Fast Charge technology on the go with the new 5200mAh Fast Charge Battery Pack. Available in gold or silver, this battery pack allows you to charge your Fast Charge-compatible Samsung device from 0 to 50% in 30 minutes*. However, with a universal USB port output, you can charge other smartphones, tablets or other electronics capable of charging via USB. The battery pack’s 5200mAh capacity can be recharged over and over. When fully powered, the battery pack holds enough juice to charge most of the latest smartphones up to at least 1 ½ times.

[/Quote]

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It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

This is not true.

 

Right. Busted by the fact-checkers! (See, this is why I'm looking for a *study*!)

 

Take Samsung’s Fast Charge technology on the go with the new 5200mAh Fast Charge Battery Pack. Available in gold or silver, this battery pack allows you to charge your Fast Charge-compatible Samsung device from 0 to 50% in 30 minutes*. However, with a universal USB port output, you can charge other smartphones, tablets or other electronics capable of charging via USB. The battery pack’s 5200mAh capacity can be recharged over and over. When fully powered, the battery pack holds enough juice to charge most of the latest smartphones up to at least 1 ½ times.

[/Quote]

 

I'm not talking about battery packs. My Samsung Galaxy S4 can swap batteries. I have spare batteries with me that I have charged through an external charger, just like you do with any chargeable battery.

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It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

This is not true.

 

Right. Busted by the fact-checkers! (See, this is why I'm looking for a *study*!)

 

Take Samsung’s Fast Charge technology on the go with the new 5200mAh Fast Charge Battery Pack. Available in gold or silver, this battery pack allows you to charge your Fast Charge-compatible Samsung device from 0 to 50% in 30 minutes*. However, with a universal USB port output, you can charge other smartphones, tablets or other electronics capable of charging via USB. The battery pack’s 5200mAh capacity can be recharged over and over. When fully powered, the battery pack holds enough juice to charge most of the latest smartphones up to at least 1 ½ times.

[/Quote]

 

I'm not talking about battery packs. My Samsung Galaxy S4 can swap batteries. I have spare batteries with me that I have charged through an external charger, just like you do with any chargeable battery.

 

There we have it. Smartphone not go dead! B)

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It will still be ticking when smartphone go dead. I can change batteries whereas smartphone can not.

 

This is not true.

 

Right. Busted by the fact-checkers! (See, this is why I'm looking for a *study*!)

 

Take Samsung’s Fast Charge technology on the go with the new 5200mAh Fast Charge Battery Pack. Available in gold or silver, this battery pack allows you to charge your Fast Charge-compatible Samsung device from 0 to 50% in 30 minutes*. However, with a universal USB port output, you can charge other smartphones, tablets or other electronics capable of charging via USB. The battery pack’s 5200mAh capacity can be recharged over and over. When fully powered, the battery pack holds enough juice to charge most of the latest smartphones up to at least 1 ½ times.

[/Quote]

 

I'm not talking about battery packs. My Samsung Galaxy S4 can swap batteries. I have spare batteries with me that I have charged through an external charger, just like you do with any chargeable battery.

 

I could swap batteries with my old phone but my new one doesn't have a battery I can remove or switch. It depends entirely on the model of phone.

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I could swap batteries with my old phone but my new one doesn't have a battery I can remove or switch. ...

[/Quote]

 

So you need the battery pack. And then....

 

Smartphone not go dead! B)

[/Quote]

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I feel that this can't be answered in yes or no.

It all depends on how you use it.

 

We recently bought a Garmin 64ST for the reason of robust, waterproof, but most of all, 16hrs on 2 AA batteries.

When you go for a 4hr walk or more, where you need to follow a gpx track, and combine that with geocaching, you can't use a smartphone. Add to this bad weather, and you have an extra reason. And yes, the better smartphones are waterproof... for some drops, not for being handled with wet hands.

 

Yes you can carry spare batteries (if you have bought a good smartphone :D ), yes you can carry external battery-packs but 2 extra AA batteries are much lighter and easier :)

And to come back to the waterproof: try swapping smartphone batteries in the rain, or use a smartphone in the rain with battery-pack attached... ;)

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when the battery gets to 5%, plug it in.

 

sky doesn't fall.

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I could swap batteries with my old phone but my new one doesn't have a battery I can remove or switch. ...

[/Quote]

 

So you need the battery pack. And then....

 

Smartphone not go dead! B)

[/Quote]

 

That can be a good option for phone cachers who don't mind carrying these add-ons, but it isn't relevant to the point at hand. The individual I was replying to was under the mistaken impression that all smartphones have removable batteries that can be swapped out. That point has been clipped out in your post for some reason.

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That can be a good option for phone cachers who don't mind carrying these add-ons, but it isn't relevant to the point at hand. The individual I was replying to was under the mistaken impression that all smartphones have removable batteries that can be swapped out. That point has been clipped out in your post for some reason.

 

No. The claim was: "smartphones cannot swap batteries". I have showed that this claim is wrong.

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That can be a good option for phone cachers who don't mind carrying these add-ons, but it isn't relevant to the point at hand. The individual I was replying to was under the mistaken impression that all smartphones have removable batteries that can be swapped out. That point has been clipped out in your post for some reason.

 

No. The claim was: "smartphones cannot swap batteries". I have showed that this claim is wrong.

 

More accurately, batteries can be swapped in some smartphones but not in others. The blanket claim either way is inaccurate. It depends on the model of phone.

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That can be a good option for phone cachers who don't mind carrying these add-ons, but it isn't relevant to the point at hand. The individual I was replying to was under the mistaken impression that all smartphones have removable batteries that can be swapped out. That point has been clipped out in your post for some reason.

 

No. The claim was: "smartphones cannot swap batteries". I have showed that this claim is wrong.

 

More accurately, batteries can be swapped in some smartphones but not in others. The blanket claim either way is inaccurate. It depends on the model of phone.

 

The claim was...

 

Smartphone go dead!

[/Quote]

 

That was disproved, because:

 

If batteries are swappable, swap batteries, and

 

If batteries are not swappable, use battery pack.

 

Therefore all bases are covered, and...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B)

[/Quote]

Edited by wmpastor

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That can be a good option for phone cachers who don't mind carrying these add-ons, but it isn't relevant to the point at hand. The individual I was replying to was under the mistaken impression that all smartphones have removable batteries that can be swapped out. That point has been clipped out in your post for some reason.

 

No. The claim was: "smartphones cannot swap batteries". I have showed that this claim is wrong.

 

More accurately, batteries can be swapped in some smartphones but not in others. The blanket claim either way is inaccurate. It depends on the model of phone.

 

The claim was...

 

Smartphone go dead!

[/Quote]

 

That was disproved, because:

 

If batteries are swappable, swap batteries, and

 

If batteries are not swappable, use battery pack.

 

Therefore all bases are covered, and...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B)

[/Quote]

 

I don't want to speculate on the motives behind your disingenuous, selective quoting, but I'm disappointed to see that you've added multiple quotations that were not part of the comment I originally replied to.

 

On the topic of switching batteries, it depends on phone model.

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When you go for a 4hr walk or more, where you need to follow a gpx track, and combine that with geocaching, you can't use a smartphone.

News to me. I get away with full-day hikes (say 8 hrs) with caching and track logging, and still have a wee bit of power left at the end of the hike.

 

And in case I don't, I carry a compact battery pack that's about the same size and shape as the phone, and it's very easy to hold both together while caching, should it come to that.

 

https://xkcd.com/386/

 

I think I had to use the battery pack once, when there was a battery-sucking bug in the app I use, Locus, but it was quickly fixed.

Edited by Viajero Perdido

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That can be a good option for phone cachers who don't mind carrying these add-ons, but it isn't relevant to the point at hand. The individual I was replying to was under the mistaken impression that all smartphones have removable batteries that can be swapped out. That point has been clipped out in your post for some reason.

 

No. The claim was: "smartphones cannot swap batteries". I have showed that this claim is wrong.

 

More accurately, batteries can be swapped in some smartphones but not in others. The blanket claim either way is inaccurate. It depends on the model of phone.

 

The claim was...

 

Smartphone go dead!

[/Quote]

 

That was disproved, because:

 

If batteries are swappable, swap batteries, and

 

If batteries are not swappable, use battery pack.

 

Therefore all bases are covered, and...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B)

[/Quote]

 

I don't want to speculate on the motives behind your disingenuous, selective quoting, but I'm disappointed to see that you've added multiple quotations that were not part of the comment I originally replied to.

 

On the topic of switching batteries, it depends on phone model.

 

We're both correct - no problem! Maybe my post should have been a separate one, but it followed the same general theme, which has turned and evolved like that home firecracker called "snake," and as quickly as "ground bloom flower." Many have been commenting on the seemingly slam-dunk-trounce of phones which included the phrase "Smartphone go dead." I didn't mean to imply you said that, and any reader of the thread knows that you didn't say that. The point to me - and it's supported once again, this time by the post of V. Perdido, is that...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B) (even after 8 hours)

[/Quote]

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Every so often I go into the wilderness for a week, completely off the grid. I take along my phone for offline navigation, and a handy-dandy solar USB charger. So...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B) (even after a week)

[/Quote]

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Every so often I go into the wilderness for a week, completely off the grid. I take along my phone for offline navigation, and a handy-dandy solar USB charger. So...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B) (even after a week)

[/Quote]

 

dude if you leave the city with a phone is going die and then you will, besides the sun isn't going to last forever!

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Every so often I go into the wilderness for a week, completely off the grid. I take along my phone for offline navigation, and a handy-dandy solar USB charger. So...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B) (even after a week)

[/Quote]

 

dude if you leave the city with a phone is going die and then you will, besides the sun isn't going to last forever!

 

Yes, but it will last a week, and that's enough for him!

 

Me, I'd be happy if the sun lasts for at least another two hundred years or so (preferably more). ;)

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That can be a good option for phone cachers who don't mind carrying these add-ons, but it isn't relevant to the point at hand. The individual I was replying to was under the mistaken impression that all smartphones have removable batteries that can be swapped out. That point has been clipped out in your post for some reason.

 

No. The claim was: "smartphones cannot swap batteries". I have showed that this claim is wrong.

 

More accurately, batteries can be swapped in some smartphones but not in others. The blanket claim either way is inaccurate. It depends on the model of phone.

 

The claim was...

 

Smartphone go dead!

[/Quote]

 

That was disproved, because:

 

If batteries are swappable, swap batteries, and

 

If batteries are not swappable, use battery pack.

 

Therefore all bases are covered, and...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B)

[/Quote]

 

I don't want to speculate on the motives behind your disingenuous, selective quoting, but I'm disappointed to see that you've added multiple quotations that were not part of the comment I originally replied to.

 

On the topic of switching batteries, it depends on phone model.

 

We're both correct - no problem! Maybe my post should have been a separate one, but it followed the same general theme, which has turned and evolved like that home firecracker called "snake," and as quickly as "ground bloom flower." Many have been commenting on the seemingly slam-dunk-trounce of phones which included the phrase "Smartphone go dead." I didn't mean to imply you said that, and any reader of the thread knows that you didn't say that. The point to me - and it's supported once again, this time by the post of V. Perdido, is that...

 

Smartphone not go dead. B) (even after 8 hours)

[/Quote]

 

Smartphone and GPS both go dead at some point, if you don't have some sort of backup power.

 

I'd personally rather carry a handful of AAs in my geocaching bag, but that's a personal preference. These battery packs and solar chargers and things sound like great options for the people who prefer to cache with a phone.

 

It's all a matter of preference. Coke or Pepsi. There's no need to be weird and selective and sneaky about thread quoting unless there's some kind of agenda at play here.

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RE: the above, let's keep it sunny. B) After all, we've just been reminded that the sun won't last forever. :(

 

Hmmm, as the poet said,

Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice....

[/Quote]

 

And the gpsr proponent suggested that leaving the city with only a phone could lead to the death of phone *and* hiker. Good caution, but the nay-saying's been debunked.

 

So it's been a tumultuous day. Whew!

Edited by wmpastor

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When you go for a 4hr walk or more, where you need to follow a gpx track, and combine that with geocaching, you can't use a smartphone.

News to me. I get away with full-day hikes (say 8 hrs) with caching and track logging, and still have a wee bit of power left at the end of the hike.

 

And in case I don't, I carry a compact battery pack that's about the same size and shape as the phone, and it's very easy to hold both together while caching, should it come to that.

 

https://xkcd.com/386/

 

I think I had to use the battery pack once, when there was a battery-sucking bug in the app I use, Locus, but it was quickly fixed.

So now I'm curious in what smartphone you have, what application you use, and if data is still on. I assume you do switch of wifi and bluetooth, or you''ll have to prove this with an 8hr video of your smartphone :D

Also I don't speak of track logging, I speak of track following, so checking screen to make sure you are still on track happens very often.

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When you go for a 4hr walk or more, where you need to follow a gpx track, and combine that with geocaching, you can't use a smartphone.

News to me. I get away with full-day hikes (say 8 hrs) with caching and track logging, and still have a wee bit of power left at the end of the hike.

 

And in case I don't, I carry a compact battery pack that's about the same size and shape as the phone, and it's very easy to hold both together while caching, should it come to that.

 

https://xkcd.com/386/

 

I think I had to use the battery pack once, when there was a battery-sucking bug in the app I use, Locus, but it was quickly fixed.

So now I'm curious in what smartphone you have, what application you use, and if data is still on. I assume you do switch of wifi and bluetooth, or you''ll have to prove this with an 8hr video of your smartphone :D

Also I don't speak of track logging, I speak of track following, so checking screen to make sure you are still on track happens very often.

 

Another smartphone sceptic, huh? :ph34r:

 

He'll supply the details, but what are we saying - that gpsr batteries never run down??

 

And we've already covered the ways to "re-energize" the smartphone.

 

Let's face it....

 

Smartphone not go dead. B)

[/Quote]

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Another smartphone sceptic, huh? :ph34r:

Smartphone not go dead. B)

[/Quote]

Not at all.... I've been using a smartphone for years (first one was a Galaxy S plus) as a navigation device, on-, off-road and motorbike trips. So always charged.

The reason I went for a true gps device is due to the bad experiences in using a smartphone for trail walks and bike trips while a constant need of screen view is needed. (wifi and BT disabled and using off-line maps)

And since one of the main battery drainers is a touchscreen, this is also the reason I bought a gpsmap 64ST, not a touchscreen gps device.

 

And trust me, smartphones do die, btdt got the t-shirt.

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