Cache container

[+Don_J]

For all you naysayers that just sit on the forums and have about 500 total finds and 30,000 forum post, get out and find caches... You can joke and belittle on something you do not understand instead of actually going out and finding a cache. Yes you it is you I am referring to.

 

I can understand your frustration, to some extent. It can't be fun to be told your idea isn't accepted, and then you have to go out and exchange a heap of caches to fit someone else's idea of the game.

 

All of that could have been avoided if they had simply asked a reviewer, or actually read the guidelines instead of clicking the box that says they have, 2000 times.

 

Oh, and UV ziplines means that they will disintegrate in about a year and the container will fall to the ground. All of this malarkey about the older caches being environmental friendly doesn't matter because when the cache owner clicks that box, he's also saying that he is taking responsibility of recovering the cache when it is no longer viable. Caches are supposed to stand up to the elements, not succumb to them. The whole idea is just a clever way to explain the CO's laziness.

[RedShoesGirl]

What do you folks think of a piece of paper rolled up into a drink straw with camo tape?

 

It sucks.

 

If I found it, that would be the last straw.

 

where's that "like" button when you need one.

[+NeverSummer]

It is and was a win win situation for everyone. The town and Newspaper has actually written about it and everyone in Yerington has heard about geocaching. Before I came here only a couple of Locals knew about geocaching now over 4000 people know something about it. I moved here to Yerington 11 months ago and there was only a handful of Geocaches in this Valley now there is 2000. All the Business owners know me by name and they all have thanked me for upping their business. I can walk into ace Hardware or tru Value Hardware and I am treated like I was a Savior for them. Yerington Inn gives a Geocacher a healthy discount if you mention you are a geocacher. Yeah I was a Bad guy that shot some happiness into a small town and help put it back on the map. So instead of sitting here on the forums and judging what you do not understand get out and find a cache.

 

Do you walk on water too?

Must feel good. Savior? Wow.

 

"One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter."

 

But, if the cache is against the guidelines here at geocaching.com, it's pretty easy to know the difference.

[+NeverSummer]

My stakes have been fixed to include on or next or in the stakes but I still believe that plain stakes are a viable Cache just as much as a 35 mm plastic container. Just for the record

Cool, I'm just going to go out and sign whatever is nearest the coordinates when I arrive at the next cache GZ. Now, where did I leave my sharpie...?

[RedShoesGirl]

...

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

 

i live in the desert and i mind. put something with a log in the rusted can, as i have seen many times, and you can call it a cache. but in reading the definition of a cache, a single stake stuck in the ground is not a cache, but i may be talking semantics.

[+tozainamboku]

What do you folks think of a piece of paper rolled up into a drink straw with camo tape?

 

really? you have to ask?

Of course. Since a straw would be a container and it would contain a separate paper log it would be allowed under the guideline despite the fact that it is an awful idea for a cache.

 

The container guideline without any rationale is a silly guideline. It encourages crappier containers in place of something a little creative that is far more likely to last in the particular situation. If Keystone is correct and the container/log guideline is supposed to make it more likely for a cache to be maintained, then I argue the guideline is failing its purpose.

 

I've yet to hear a reasonable rationale for why Groundspeak felt compelled to adopt this guideline in the first place. In addition, I only understand how it is to be interpreted from unofficial remarks that volunteer reviewers have posted about what direction they were given by Groundspeak. If you are a regular forum participant you might be aware of this interpretation. However most geocachers only have the published guidelines to go on and I can understand how someone reading those guideline might interpret them to allow stakes or other original ideas for a cache.

[Nicc from KS]

What do you folks think of a piece of paper rolled up into a drink straw with camo tape?

 

really? you have to ask?

 

Yeah, I had to ask. Everyone else in my area thought this was such a creative and wonderful container. I wanted to know what a broader array of cachers thought of this as it's been my opinion that many of the local cachers are bent in the head.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Nicc from KS

[GOF and Bacall]

What do you folks think of a piece of paper rolled up into a drink straw with camo tape?

 

really? you have to ask?

 

Yeah, I had to ask. Everyone else in my area thought this was such a creative and wonderful container. I wanted to know what a broader array of cachers thought of this as it's been my opinion that many of the local cachers are bent in the head.

 

I think it, um, sucks.

[RedShoesGirl]

What do you folks think of a piece of paper rolled up into a drink straw with camo tape?

 

really? you have to ask?

 

Yeah, I had to ask. Everyone else in my area thought this was such a creative and wonderful container. I wanted to know what a broader array of cachers thought of this as it's been my opinion that many of the local cachers are bent in the head.

 

how does one get the log out? blow on one end and hope it doesn't go shooting into someone's hair like a spitball?

[ving]

plastic bag? thats just lazy...

 

stake with no hidden cache inside? weird....

[+jellis]

The new caches have been replaced. They are not all the same. Some are bisons hidden, some pill bottles, 35mm, there are even some really creative caches. As group from different areas, cachers came and helped restore the caches and made them comply with the guidelines.

[AZcachemeister]

So now the powertrail partially consists of throwdowns?

 

This is getting better by the minute...

[+jellis]

So now the powertrail partially consists of throwdowns?

 

This is getting better by the minute...

How are they throwdowns? They are no different then any other caches YOU may have done. Not lampskirts. You have to find them, cause most are not easy to find like the ET Hwy. They are better then they were. They are not owned by the original owners. They have brand new numbers.

[AZcachemeister]

As group from different areas, cachers came and helped restore the caches and made them comply with the guidelines.

 

Sounds like a CITO in reverse.

[Mr.Yuck]

I was going to reply to this thread Saturday night, but I couldn't find it. If I didn't know any better, I'd say Hans' post "telling the forum off" was deleted, and later re-instated. Because I couldn't find this bumped thread for the life of me on Saturday.

 

I will say that this thread was about a stake power trail in Arizona, not Hans' PT, and he brought attention to himself, and the fact he had wooden stake caches out there. Groundspeaks archive notes were something along the lines of "It has come to our attention this cache is in violation of the guidelines". Groundspeak does read their own forums you know. A few regular players giving the opinion his caches did not meet the guidelines did not get his power trail archived. A public admission of having wooden stakes as caches got his PT archived. Because film canisters seep chemicals into Mother Earth. Sorry, couldn't resist that last one.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[Mr.Yuck]

What do you folks think of a piece of paper rolled up into a drink straw with camo tape?

 

really? you have to ask?

 

Yeah, I had to ask. Everyone else in my area thought this was such a creative and wonderful container. I wanted to know what a broader array of cachers thought of this as it's been my opinion that many of the local cachers are bent in the head.

 

There is a certain Major City in SW Missouri (which will remain nameless ) Where a long established CHARTER MEMBER of this website has made videos of his so-called "clever hides", which include a crumpled Poland Spring bottle that you sign with a needle, a blank CD in a sidewalk crack that you sign with a needle, and the mentioned plastic straw as a cache container. Perhaps his amazing ideas have spread to your State?

 

At the very least, I'm sure they've spread within the unnamed Major City in SW Missouri. I would avoid that unnamed Major City like the plague.

[+ncfinn]

I felt like a tool when finding out a cache was a log pasted to the back page of a phone book at a public phone booth. So we say the phone book is the container?

 

I love this idea!

[+fbingha]

I felt like a tool when finding out a cache was a log pasted to the back page of a phone book at a public phone booth. So we say the phone book is the container?

 

I love this idea!

 

Don't do it!!!

Edited December 4, 2012 by fbingha

[Clan Riffster]

Where to start... (Sigh)

For all you naysayers

For Hans, apparently anyone who supports the Guidelines is a naysayer.

Just wanted to clarify that for any late comers.

 

that just sit on the forums and have about 500 total finds and 30,000 forum post, get out and find caches. You all want to sit in judgement

Didn't you just sit in judgment?

Or are you the exception to the rules?

(I guess, considering the topic, that's a silly question)

 

 

You have no idea on what the Stakes were all about.

Actually, we did. It was explained in detail.

Over a thousand deliberate guideline violations.

Because you thought the rules shouldn't apply to you.

 

 

Now it has just become more or less a ho hum regular run with more GEOLITTER per guidelines.

So, you're not planning on cleaning up this disaster when it has run its course? That's the only way a viable cache can become GEOLITTER.

 

 

Now it will take 24 to 48 more hours to get the run done

So, folks will have more time in the area to spend money?

This should delight those shop owners who worship you.

 

 

You can joke and belittle on something you do not understand

See above.

We understand it just fine.

 

Yes you it is you I am referring to.

Little ole me?

I'm honored...

 

 

I can walk into ace Hardware or tru Value Hardware and I am treated like I was a Savior for them.

Can I create an alter in your name?

Call you Saint Hans?

 

Seriously dude. Perhaps you should take a good long look in a mirror. You are the one seated upon the elevated equine. You are the one who lied countless times when you checked the box stating you understood and would comply with the guidelines. You were the one who deliberately violated those guidelines when your desire to appeal to the numbers oriented cachers exceeded either your finances or your motivation. You are the one who came up with one ridiculous excuse after another regarding why the rules shouldn't apply to you.

 

Savior? Seriously?

 

Sigh...

[+jellis]

Actually I think it was great that cachers came together and fix them. Maybe next someone could put on a major Cito for all the beer cans and bottles out there. I saw at least 1 or 2 bottles about every 5 ft on both sides of the road.

[+tozainamboku]

Where to start... (Sigh)

 

You have no idea on what the Stakes were all about.

Actually, we did. It was explained in detail.

Over a thousand deliberate guideline violations.

Because you thought the rules shouldn't apply to you.

 

I think this is a bit unfair. I believe that as written, someone who does not frequent the forum and hasn't seen what some of the reviewers have posted about how they interpret the guideline, could interpret them differently. You might take a view that for a cache to contain a log sheet it has to have an inside and the log sheet must be something separate inside the cache. But English allows some flexibility of the meaning of the word contain. For example this page contains postings. So too could a stake contain a area where you can write you name (i.e. a log).

 

Given that TPTB have yet to provide a rationale for this guideline it seems more than likely that Hans believed the stakes were legal caches, and more over that given the environment where he hid them and the nature of his power trail, they were actually a good choice for cache containers.

[Mr.Yuck]

Actually I think it was great that cachers came together and fix them. Maybe next someone could put on a major Cito for all the beer cans and bottles out there. I saw at least 1 or 2 bottles about every 5 ft on both sides of the road.

 

Hey, when you're driving through the Dessert, you need beer. I'd recommend the paper bag in the back seat for the empty cans though, why litter? Besides, beer cans seep chemicals into Mother Earth. Sorry, couldn't resist again.

[+Roman!]

Actually I think it was great that cachers came together and fix them. Maybe next someone could put on a major Cito for all the beer cans and bottles out there. I saw at least 1 or 2 bottles about every 5 ft on both sides of the road.

 

So at 1.5 bottles every 5 feet that'll give you 1584 bottles per mile.

At 2000 caches, 1 every .1 miles, that'll give you 200 miles.

At 1584 bottles per mile over 200 miles will give you 316800 bottles.

At $.05 per bottle CITOing the E.T. Highway will net you $15,840 and that's does not include the other side of the highway.

[+jellis]

Actually I think it was great that cachers came together and fix them. Maybe next someone could put on a major Cito for all the beer cans and bottles out there. I saw at least 1 or 2 bottles about every 5 ft on both sides of the road.

 

So at 1.5 bottles every 5 feet that'll give you 1584 bottles per mile.

At 2000 caches, 1 every .1 miles, that'll give you 200 miles.

At 1584 bottles per mile over 200 miles will give you 316800 bottles.

At $.05 per bottle CITOing the E.T. Highway will net you $15,840 and that's does not include the other side of the highway.

The ET hwy, doesn't a road crew take care of clean ups?

This PT if you call it one, is unpaved, but graded, sandy roads and trails in the desert. Old mining area.Nothing bigger then sagebrush and occasional cactus or wooden posts. But yet I did see some road signs. One of the creative caches I saw was an old wind up phone with the little compartment for notes attached to the remnants of a fence.

Edited December 4, 2012 by jellis

[Clan Riffster]

it seems more than likely that Hans believed the stakes were legal caches

Sorry Toz. I gotta call "Bunk" on this claim. In reading his many arguments for why the rules should not apply to him, logic dictates that he knew exactly what he was getting into, and as such, he knew his caches were in direct violation of the guidelines each and every time he clicked that little box. Had these been magnetic strips over a slip of paper, or even a magnetic strip which gets signed on the back side, I might be willing to accept an argument of ignorance, (I've seen folks in here argue that the magnet, pressed firmly against a metal surface, 'contains' the log), but a stick hanging from a branch? What is 'contained'? How can anyone with even the mildest grasp of the English language interpret a stick covered in writing as having contained anything?

 

He knew what he was doing, and chose to do it anyway.

 

Either because he was too cheap to purchase real caches, or because he was too lazy to do maintenance on the monster he created.

[MeanandBreen]

As far as the stakes are concerned, there is a series of caches near me, (Southeast PA), which is a series of 40. Each one has a clue, and find them all, you get the clues to the final cache, which is a box. I think thats an okay idea, but as far as just one cache is concerned, I dont know about that. In the end, it seems like it comes down to whether or not they're taken care of, and if they're just stakes, or stakes with a container inside.

[Zerpersande]

so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

 

If you are truly this concerned about the environment, you should be leaving anything in it. Especially anything that entices people to drive gas/diesel powered vehicles through the area. This has nothing to do with the environment and you know it. Why not tell us the real reason that you don't want to use proper containers.

If you read above you will see that I am not concerned about the enviorment until someone calls it Geolittering with stakes and then I am qui8ck to point out that Stakes are better then plastic containers

 

"Geolitter" is a forum term used by some to describe any type of cache that they don't approve of. I doubt it was personal.

 

Why don't you want to use a proper container? The truth.

Geesh really I feel the Bright Glare of lights shinning in my face. I see in the shadows a gunman demanding the truth or Truth serum will be used. Too funny. I use many many different types of Legal Containers. I feel strongly that Stakes should be accepted as a Viable Nano to Micro Cache. There is no Truth that you are seeking. It is just plain and simple. On a Power run a Stake makes prefect sense as I have stated before. One step out of Vehicle stamp and move on to next. I have also Stated before that our power run does not just have stakes with DNA tubes on them they consist of all sizes of cache containers. from nanos to extra extra large. I find stakes with dna tubes on them to slow down the hunt but I accept that unless we can change the rules on stakes.

Ran across this and thought I would toss out a thought. I know next to nothing about this Power thing, only enough to know I want nothing o do with it. But if others are into, who gives an airborne rodent's anal phincter muscle if the things are clearly marked so that they can be avoided by those that don't want to mess with them? Are these geocachers violating the rules? Rodent's sphincter muscle, not my concern.

 

As for GeoLitter, I think that if the authorities really wanted to try, most if not all caches could result in the geocacher being charged with littering. One man's junk is another man's treasure.

[+jellis]

so utility plates have now been changed to? I doubt it

 

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container.

yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container

yes

And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

 

If you are truly this concerned about the environment, you should be leaving anything in it. Especially anything that entices people to drive gas/diesel powered vehicles through the area. This has nothing to do with the environment and you know it. Why not tell us the real reason that you don't want to use proper containers.

If you read above you will see that I am not concerned about the enviorment until someone calls it Geolittering with stakes and then I am qui8ck to point out that Stakes are better then plastic containers

 

"Geolitter" is a forum term used by some to describe any type of cache that they don't approve of. I doubt it was personal.

 

Why don't you want to use a proper container? The truth.

Geesh really I feel the Bright Glare of lights shinning in my face. I see in the shadows a gunman demanding the truth or Truth serum will be used. Too funny. I use many many different types of Legal Containers. I feel strongly that Stakes should be accepted as a Viable Nano to Micro Cache. There is no Truth that you are seeking. It is just plain and simple. On a Power run a Stake makes prefect sense as I have stated before. One step out of Vehicle stamp and move on to next. I have also Stated before that our power run does not just have stakes with DNA tubes on them they consist of all sizes of cache containers. from nanos to extra extra large. I find stakes with dna tubes on them to slow down the hunt but I accept that unless we can change the rules on stakes.

Ran across this and thought I would toss out a thought. I know next to nothing about this Power thing, only enough to know I want nothing o do with it. But if others are into, who gives an airborne rodent's anal phincter muscle if the things are clearly marked so that they can be avoided by those that don't want to mess with them? Are these geocachers violating the rules? Rodent's sphincter muscle, not my concern.

 

As for GeoLitter, I think that if the authorities really wanted to try, most if not all caches could result in the geocacher being charged with littering. One man's junk is another man's treasure.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=60540

Geolitter is when a cache has been abandoned by the owner.

To me since we cache owners are putting containers/objects in places where there was not one there before is Geolitter. We left a container whether active or not, is not natural, so it is a type of littering.

If a muggle came across one more likely they would pick it up and throw it away or ignore it like trash. So PTs or not all caches are Geolitter. Including yours.

[+simpjkee]

The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

This ball is slowly starting to roll in my area. One cacher has done some 'stake hides' and has upped the anty to 'landscaping pole hides'. These are not landscaping poles that the CO placed in the location however, they are poles that were aleady in place. All the CO did was take the coords of the pole and write 'sign here' at the top. Now the pole has a list of geonames on it.

 

Here's an example of a landscaping pole. They're commonly found in landscaping islands of parking lots and along the street:

 

[+Don_J]

The only thing I see wrong with signing the steak or for that matter the outside of any cache, is that many cacher would start signing anything they think is the cache. This would lead to many areas banning caching due to vandelism. If the signatures are hidden inside an 'box' and not out for everyone to see, caching will be precieved in better light.

This ball is slowly starting to roll in my area. One cacher has done some 'stake hides' and has upped the anty to 'landscaping pole hides'. These are not landscaping poles that the CO placed in the location however, they are poles that were aleady in place. All the CO did was take the coords of the pole and write 'sign here' at the top. Now the pole has a list of geonames on it.

 

Here's an example of a landscaping pole. They're commonly found in landscaping islands of parking lots and along the street:

 

 

Around here, that's called "tagging" and it could land you in jail. I wouldn't sign it. Instead, I'd post a DNF, right below my NA log.