Nicc from KS

Snowsurfer, you won't get any traction here on the forum. The forum regulars and moderators won't allow any real critcism of reviewers. They will even retaliate with false accusations and log deletions without any explanation as to what rules have been violated. The help center will continue to ignore your complaints. I suggest you check with geocaching groups on other social media sites to read about the hundreds of problems a few of these reviewers are causing and about all the geocachers who are leaving the game due to the hostile policies of geocaching HQ. Geocaching HQ continues to perpetuate this problem and everyone wonders, "Why are the numbers down?"

So, if a handful of newbs can't find a cache that is actually there, it gets hit with 4 or DNFs. Some armchair NM/NA cacher sees this and posts a NA without actually looking for the cache. And this seems justifiable because of the DNFs? I only have one account. But, I suppose for fun, I could create a handful of puppet accounts. Tag a bunch of caches with DNFs. Follow up with NMs and NAs and wait for the reviewer to archive caches which are actually still in play and good quality. Some COs will spend the time checking on these and tagging the OM. But many COs will get tire of the harassing games and just archive their caches and quit caching all together.

Yes, that seems to be a recurring theme with Groundspeak. That's why it's best Groundspeak not get into cache censorship based on political ebbs and flows such as the OP suggested.

What I see are people who have been 'given', emphasis on given, authority. Who then proceed to abuse the authority because they believe their title makes that okay. And when their abuse is questioned or called out, their attitude is that they can interpret the rules however they wish, and if someone doesn't like it, they must accept that as a difference of opinion and move on without discussion. Because further discussion would shed light on the abuse. This is the premise I offered to the OP and have continued to offer. The attitude many of you(who have side tracked this thread) seem to have is that you don't believe reviewers, moderators, and lackeys should not follow the same set of rules imposed on everyone else. This upsets you a great deal. The lack of maturity has shone through in this regard. The lack of response the OP received on his issue is standard practice which should be corrected. The response of the sycophants to quash complaints is a serious problem on this forum. Not just with this thread and other topics but with quite a few threads I've read over the years. I went to Facebook when I first had a problem with geocrater, because I know that complaints are not taken seriously on this forum because of the reasons I've mentioned. It's not creepy, it was an investigation. I wanted to know if it was just me who had a problem or if others saw the same things I did. Guess what? It's not just me. There are dozens of people who have complaints, not just about a specific reviewer but about groundspeaks refusal to address the issue. But hey! As long as you folks stay in your little microcosm here, and continue to talk down to all the people who make you feel sad, your power trip will never end.

Just as I predicted in my original post, criticism of Groundspeak and reviewers gets retaliation. Again, I have found dozens of complaints about a specific reviewer's abusive behavior on facebook's caching group's pages. I included multiple examples of these complaints in my attempt to resolve this issue. Many of those who complain about these problems on FB will not come onto this forum because they know they will be shouted down by the Groundspeak sycophants just as I have been. At least one reviewer and one or more anonymous lackeys have violated their own terms of service against me with lies and retaliation. If Groundspeak had gotten the reviewer under control back in February of this year before he even creeped into my caching territory, I would not have any complaints about this. I have tried to share my experience with Groundspeak so the OP would see that his frustrating dealings with Groundspeak are not that uncommon despite what the 'in crowd' on this forum hallucinates. If anyone would care to do a little research, check some of the log posts of my archived caches. Perform a facebook search of the reviewer that is mentioned. And then tell me my complaints about this reviewer and Groundspeak are nothing but half truths.

Yes, I considered that it might just be me. That's why I looked into it further, outside the realm controlled by Groundspeak. After encountering a reviewer who was abusing his authority, I searched Facebook for anything related to that reviewer. I found dozens of complaints about this reviewer over the last few years and complaints that Groundspeak had ignored other cachers' concerns. Groundspeak doesn't want to discuss the abusive reviewer and I'm sure any attempt on the forum would be deleted as it might hurt someone's feelings. Groundspeak's tendency to ignore complaints and inquiries, or dismiss them with the generic 'Our reviewers/moderators are hardworking, dedicated blah, blah, blah'..... is an arrogant and unprofessional way to run a business which touts itself as a community. The careers video seems to show a drinking party type atmosphere. Geocaching is a game, but the administration of that should be taken more seriously. The OP wants an explanation as to why a log was deleted. The response from Groundspeak and this forum is, "Go away, we're busy." The dismissive and condescending attitude of some reviewers, moderators and Groundspeak staff is sending geocaching into decline. This translates into fewer quality caches and more micro throwdowns. ~Nicc

My experience with Groundspeak has shown their lackeys and administrators to be unprofessional and immature. They apply a broad and inconsistent interpretation of the terms of service and multiple attempts for an explanation or discussion go ignored because they cannot justify their actions. If you are a premium member or a cache owner, you are a stakeholder in geocaching.com. Groundspeak owes us some customer service. I will not be surprised if this post is deleted. Criticism of Groundspeak staff, reviewers, and moderators get deletion and retaliation. ~Nicc

Which is worse? A cache owner with 50 hides that he/she does not maintain, or 50 newbs who downloaded the app, dropped a pill bottle and then disappeared a month later? Should Groundspeak do something about one and not the other? Or both? If Groundspeak and the reviewers want to curb the behavior of the former, why are they promoting the behavior of the latter?

Many of these "so-called" maintenance issues involve wet log sheets. (Oh-Boo-Hoo). So the log is wet. Leave a replacement log in a baggy or don't fuss about it with a NM. REMEMBER geocaching is about the journey/adventure to some place that you might have never been, not making your mark on some piece of paper. "2017 strategic emphasis on cache quality..."- Yes, what does this mean? Is Groundspeak trying to clean up; missing caches, caches with bad coordinates, caches hidden under bridges where transients live, caches hidden by inexperience newbs who just downloaded the app? I went to do maintenance on a cache about a month ago because of a NM log complaining about a wet log. A reviewer placed an archive threat on the cache. I found the container; intact, in place and with a dry logsheet. Wet log sheets should not be the sole reason for a NM. Based on my recent experience here in Kansas, it seems there are some side games going with reviewers and the administrators at geocachinghq. Their wanton desires to archive caches for 'not legitimate' reasons is causing divisiveness in the community. Maybe the problem isn't with cache ownership.

Plastic peanut butter jars work great. Use an old bicycle innertube as a seal. Cut it flat to fill the entire inside of the lid. I use Super 77 spray adhesive to glue it in. When painting plastic containers which don't hold paint well, I hit them with a coat of spray paint and immediately light them on fire. Blow the flames out after about 5 seconds and do it again a few times. This helps the plastic hold the paint better. Once it cools and drys you can give it your camo coat.

I'm having the same problem on my desktop using Firefox and Chrome.

Didn't know you could get your teeth tatooed till I met this cacher. TB2T3V7

really? you have to ask? Yeah, I had to ask. Everyone else in my area thought this was such a creative and wonderful container. I wanted to know what a broader array of cachers thought of this as it's been my opinion that many of the local cachers are bent in the head.

If it's a clever container, and interesting place with several unique places to hide; then it should be a good cache. But if you've hidden a micro or smaller in the back of a thick bush so that the finder must spend 30+ minutes searching every branch and leaf while the neighbors contemplate calling the police, then it's not such a good cache. Think about how long it would take for you to find a type of cache similar to what you've hidden. Will the enjoyment of searching dissipate before you find it?

What do you folks think of a piece of paper rolled up into a drink straw with camo tape?

So, there should be no rules or guidelines? I'm all for extreme caches, tunnels, trees, cliffs etc. But, should nothing be off limits? What if I glue a matchstick container inside a pair of old shoes, tie them together and throw them over a live power line? Is that OK? If I mark a cache as 'kid friendly' and hide it on a corner where hookers hang out, would that be OK? The reason I started this thread is because I see a lot of bad cache hides which are dragging the hobby down. I wanted to know if anyone else sees this and what they do about it. I guess the answer is, no one cares.

I don't like large groups of people and prefer to cache by myself. I bump into other cachers out on the trail and we'll talk a bit and maybe track down a few together. I don't mind that at all. I called some of these cliques exclusive, but that's not the right word. If I wanted to join some of them or attend the events I could. And again, I'm not whining about a cache or puzzle being difficult to find. If I see others have solved or found a cache on their own, I'll either look harder or ignore it. Here's a more specific example. (GC266CK) I recently posted a needs archived log on this one. The puzzle is great. Easy to solve. The coordinates take you to a cluster of electrical boxes and A/C units on the side of a school in between the building and a loading dock. You can see this from Google Earth street view. 20 people logged a find on this. Most stated they got additional hints from someone else. And several commented about what a clever hide is was. Here's the problem. There's no info about the container. So, you're expected to crawl around some electrical boxes on school property. No one had a problem with this being on school property(which is prohibited). No one has a problem with this being hidden on or around a cluster of electrical boxes(which is kind of stupid with all the copper thefts we've had the last few years.) I feel that because many of these finders cache together, see each other at events, and get help from each other, this makes them oblivious to some of the problem caches in the area. While the cliques might not be well defined, group think leads some of these cachers to think that this is not only an acceptable hide, but a really good hide. I consider the hide itself to be a bad hide and should have been archived or moved a long time ago. Back to my original post. (A little more specific) 1. Do others encounter bad or inappropriate hides which a group/clique of people have found to be good/acceptable with no issues raised. 2. Do you post critical comments or 'needs archived' when you find a bad puzzle/hide that others think is great. If someone has issues with any of my caches, I want to hear about them. I'll correct my mistakes or move the cache.

I'm not talking about a cache just being difficult to find or solve. I've contacted a CO on a few of his caches and either got no response or was told I need to post a DNF first and look harder. But, I read the logs on these caches and see others have gotten hints from the CO. I also encounter way too many caches with bad coordinates hidden on private property or inappropriate places. Neither the CO nor the finders mention on the cache page about the bad coords, private property, or the it might be an inappropriate location. This information gets passed around in the event meetings and groups but is not public knowledge. So, I feel certain caches are off limits to me because I choose not to go to the events or pal around with other cachers, and I refuse to kiss the COs butt. I'm seeing too many lame cache hides. Bad containers, bad coordinates, inappropriate locations and most of the other cachers don't call attention to this because they are afraid they might offend someone who they will see at the next event. I call that a clique mentality. And it is diminishing the spirit of the hobby. I seemed to have offended a couple cachers a few months ago when I pointed out their coordinates were off by 50ft. GZ was on private land with several fallen trees and hundreds of possible hiding spots 20ft from the coordinates, but the cache was 50ft away. That's just a sloppy hide. Apparently this doesn't seem to be a problem in other areas. I was curious if others have had to deal with individual COs or groups which seem to be exclusive. And do you post a 'need archived' noted when you encounter this. Thanks for the comments.

So, is it acceptable to publish a cache, where the only way to find it is to show up at the next event to get the info the CO left out?

I'd like some opinions. In my area there seem to be quite a few caches that only a very few people can find. Some are puzzles and some are traditional. I read the descriptions and hints(if there are any) and find no useful information to help me with the find. When I read the logs, everyone who has posted a find on a particular cache mentions that they finally found it after getting extra info from either the CO or someone else who got it from the CO. But the cache owner won't post that info on the cache page itself. This frustrates me to no end. Some of these COs want people to kiss their butt before they share the 'secret' info. Some of them expect you to show up at one of the event meetings to get it. My opinion is, all the info I need should be on the cache page, or is publicly available(as for a puzzle) in order to find a cache. I shouldn't have to suck up to the local geo-clique in order to find a cache. I realize some caches are just really clever and I might not catch on right away. I don't have a problem emailing another cacher if I see several people have found the cache on their own. But, how much 'inner circle-good ol' boys-country club' BS should we tolerate in this hobby? If it seems the only way to find a cache is to kiss the CO butt, or pander to the local geo-clique, should that cache be archived? Yes, I realize there are inner circles in every group/business. I try to avoid that type of high school behavior. Comments?

Ok. I understand now. I understood the 'menu' option to be within the app instead of the phone's menu. I'm still learning the phone. Thanks for the help.

Ok. I understand now. I understood the 'menu' option to be within the app instead of the phone's menu. I'm still learning the phone. Thanks for the help.

When I select Navigate to Geocache > Maps, it only show the geocache which I selected. How to I get a map that shows the other geocaches in the area as well? Also, how do I change the distances to U.S. instead of metric?

When I select Navigate to Geocache > Map/Compass it takes me to either the map or compass but I do not have a menu option.

Doesn't any one else use bottle rockets as a diversion?