Fair Play

[+cownchicken]

It saddens us to have discovered that some Western Cache cachers are not playing the game fairly and logging caches they didn't visit.

[+cincol]

I have a cache very close to the Doha Airport and regularly have "finds" logged by people who are in transit at the airport and who just log it. Fortunately it is easy for me to check this one and just as regularly delete as there is nothing in the logbook. The majority of the false loggers are Americans and Germans by far!

[besem]

I'm not particularly concerned if people want to log caches they didn't visit - it's no skin off my nose, and since the existence of the power trail, numbers have become irrelevant to me anyway. However, I do from time to time crosscheck my logbook with online logs and will delete offending logs if it's a clear armchair log (I'm more lenient towards newbies who might not have realised in time that signing the logbook is essential).

 

The one exception I make is on my earthcaches - I don't let anyone log without giving me some indication that they have visited the site.

[+Avanclan]

With reference to armchair caching of Earth Caches. I am busy trying to get two Earth Caches published and was asked by the reviewer to remove a "security" question I had in my posting as it was not part of the Earth Cache subject. So unless you ask a very specific question that can only be answered on site, (which is not always possible) how, unless they post a photo will you ever know if they been at the GZ. I therefore hid a few traditional caches very close to and leading to the Earth Cache to assist me in identifying the Armchair cachers

 

Agree with Peter, most popular of our armchair cachers in the UAE are German. We have also had the incident where if they cant find the cache they hide their own replacement cache where they think your cache should have been hidden.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Avanclan

[+battlerat and pussycat]

Some time ago a geocacher far North was trying to find a cache a day. One particular day he tried to find a cache hidden by my brother (the only cache in 50km radius), and when he couldn't find it, "replaced" the "missing" cache and claimed a find for the day. My brother went to do cache maintenance the same day and found the original cache still in its hidey hole! (This cache wasn't particularly difficult to find...)

 

How could this geocacher set a challenge for himself and then when he can't find a cache, replace it and claim a find? The mind boggles how this person reasons...

 

Point is that everywhere in life people will break the rules/cheat/be dishonest to favour themselves. Sportsmen take performance enhancing drugs, politicians are corrupt, impatient drivers & taxis push in & overtake illegally. Geocaching is an activity no different to any of these other. I cannot comprehend why someone would log if a find if they haven't even bothered to visit a cache. When I started playing this game in 2005 I was amazed how trustworthy the geocaching community is. Hiding containers everywhere, leaving valuable coins and TBs for others to discover and trade, and a website that trust what everyone logs.

 

Like any other activity, we cannot do nothing but accept that over time, given enough people participating, the same people that overtake illegally, steal, cheat or do things that is not considered acceptable behaviour, will also call themselves geocachers... Not even if the stricest rules are enforced will it deter who don't want to play by the rules.

 

We can only set the example, by playing by the rules, put effort into hiding great caches, write interesting logs and posting great pics while having as much fun as we can while doing this. Hopefully through our actions we can change the attitude of one of those geocachers then at least we achieved something through our participating in geocaching.

[+cincol]

Andrè - once published you can add your special question as well.

[+Hesamati]

We can only set the example, by playing by the rules, put effort into hiding great caches, write interesting logs and posting great pics while having as much fun as we can while doing this. Hopefully through our actions we can change the attitude of one of those geocachers then at least we achieved something through our participating in geocaching.

 

Give that man a Bells!!

[+tomtwogates]

I cannot comprehend why someone would log if a find if they haven't even bothered to visit a cache. When I started playing this game in 2005 I was amazed how trustworthy the geocaching community is. Hiding containers everywhere, leaving valuable coins and TBs for others to discover and trade, and a website that trust what everyone logs.

 

Like any other activity, we cannot do nothing but accept that over time, given enough people participating, the same people that overtake illegally, steal, cheat or do things that is not considered acceptable behaviour, will also call themselves geocachers... Not even if the strictest rules are enforced will it deter who don't want to play by the rules.

 

We can only set the example, by playing by the rules, put effort into hiding great caches, write interesting logs and posting great pics while having as much fun as we can while doing this. Hopefully through our actions we can change the attitude of one of those geocachers then at least we achieved something through our participating in geocaching.

 

I concur with Br&Pc and could not have put it better myself.

 

it is a sad day when this sort of thing happens, they are only fooling themselves and unfortunately there is not too much we can do about it except hope that sooner or later they will come to the realisation that it is not all about the numbers!

[+The Huskies]

When I started playing this game in 2005 I was amazed how trustworthy the geocaching community is.

 

Keep the game simple...Be trustworthy and enjoy the nature.

[+malo mystery]

Geocaching has always struck me as a pastime of personal achievements and challenges. I have been really slow recently, but logging finds without signing the logbook seems to me a little like sending yourself a bunch of flowers for Valentines day. In the short time you might fool a few people, but not for a second will you ever fool yourself. Good luck with the self gratification.

[+cownchicken]

Geocaching has always struck me as a pastime of personal achievements and challenges. I have been really slow recently, but logging finds without signing the logbook seems to me a little like sending yourself a bunch of flowers for Valentines day. In the short time you might fool a few people, but not for a second will you ever fool yourself. Good luck with the self gratification.

 

Give that man a Bells!!

[+terunkie]

]It is a sad day indeed when cheating is discovered. I think it's an insult to the cache owner when you log an armchair find.

I also feel it diminishes the effort that honest cachers put in to log finds.

We have always felt the geocaching community is a great bunch of people that we are proud to be part of, and I don't want this to spoil that feeling.

Edited July 26, 2012 by terunkie

[+Carbon Hunter]

Some time ago a geocacher far North was trying to find a cache a day. One particular day he tried to find a cache hidden by my brother (the only cache in 50km radius), and when he couldn't find it, "replaced" the "missing" cache and claimed a find for the day. My brother went to do cache maintenance the same day and found the original cache still in its hidey hole! (This cache wasn't particularly difficult to find...)

 

How could this geocacher set a challenge for himself and then when he can't find a cache, replace it and claim a find? The mind boggles how this person reasons...

 

Point is that everywhere in life people will break the rules/cheat/be dishonest to favour themselves. Sportsmen take performance enhancing drugs, politicians are corrupt, impatient drivers & taxis push in & overtake illegally. Geocaching is an activity no different to any of these other. I cannot comprehend why someone would log if a find if they haven't even bothered to visit a cache. When I started playing this game in 2005 I was amazed how trustworthy the geocaching community is. Hiding containers everywhere, leaving valuable coins and TBs for others to discover and trade, and a website that trust what everyone logs.

 

Like any other activity, we cannot do nothing but accept that over time, given enough people participating, the same people that overtake illegally, steal, cheat or do things that is not considered acceptable behaviour, will also call themselves geocachers... Not even if the stricest rules are enforced will it deter who don't want to play by the rules.

 

We can only set the example, by playing by the rules, put effort into hiding great caches, write interesting logs and posting great pics while having as much fun as we can while doing this. Hopefully through our actions we can change the attitude of one of those geocachers then at least we achieved something through our participating in geocaching.

 

Well said

[+Zambesiboy]

I totally agree with all this discussion. Personally I find it astounding that anyone would want to, and indeed cheat oneself.

I have seldom found in 8 years of caching a group of folk with such high integrity as cachers.

 

Can the person who has precipitated this discussion be councelled and brought back on board. That would be the responsible thing to do perhaps?

[+PieterM]

There are cachers participating in this thread that has found 4 of my caches on one day (Bracken Reserve) but logging them on 4 consecutive days. I suppose it is for some sort of medal or whatever.

To each his own.

[+Tricky Vicky & Mickey]

Really rather sad! Makes one wonder what makes someone do this - after all it is very much a personal game, so they are cheating no one but themselves! Does seem rather pointless and very much like MaloMystery so aptly says - sending oneself a bunch of flowers on Valentine's Day!

 

SAD!

[+Carbon Hunter]

I guess that being a total cross section of society, there are a total cross section of standards and mores applied by each cacher.

 

I am sure that culturally caching differs across the globe (just as levels of caches and applied difficulty ratings). So I am sure that this kind of debate will remain in caching, due to the lack of "rules".

 

So where a certain cacher feels justified in logging PieterM's caches on different days, another will not - one cacher will feel happy swapping a USB flash drive from a cache and replacing with a used bus ticket - another will only trade up. Some will create custom made cache containers and disguise them significantly, or purchase a nano - others will put a margerine tub under a bush with no real thought of the enjoyment.

 

Unfortunately, this will continue, but a good example, and passing on the good practices at events and when meeting other cachers, and praising good caching (great logs, trading up, maintaining another cache when possible with logsheets etc.) are all laudable and if we keep up with this, hopefully people will rise to the top, rather than sinking to the bottom.

 

And personally, of all the cachers I respect (and generally those that have been in the hobby for a while and keep going) are the ones who have the higher level of caching etiquette. i think very few of those cachers are fooled by the cacher who sends themselves valentines flowers.

[+Team_Zenboom]

the one practical response that occurs to me is that COs make a commitment to reconcile cache logs and page logs on a regular basis.

obviously, there are costs and hazards.

 

cache finders may also assist with this.

[+cownchicken]

the one practical response that occurs to me is that COs make a commitment to reconcile cache logs and page logs on a regular basis.

obviously, there are costs and hazards.

 

cache finders may also assist with this.

 

That is an idea but sadly it would turn us all into Geocaching Police/Nazi's.

It is after all a game which one would hope that others partaking in this fun pastime would do so with integrity.

[+Hesamati]

Danie Viljoen: "The point farthest from any cache in Africa is N13 26.770 E23 47.545, in the west of Sudan, 961.9km from the nearest cache. To put this in perspective - it is the centre of a cacheless circle with an area more than twice the area of South Africa!"

Just thought you might want to know...

[+cownchicken]

 

And personally, of all the cachers I respect (and generally those that have been in the hobby for a while and keep going) are the ones who have the higher level of caching etiquette. i think very few of those cachers are fooled by the cacher who sends themselves valentines flowers.

Give this man a Bells as well!

[+cownchicken]

 

Unfortunately, this will continue, but a good example, and passing on the good practices at events and when meeting other cachers, and praising good caching (great logs, trading up, maintaining another cache when possible with logsheets etc.) are all laudable and if we keep up with this, hopefully people will rise to the top, rather than sinking to the bottom.

 

 

Perhaps this is what we should be doing.

[+geocacher_coza]

I have NEVER checked one of my logs. If someone wants to not play fair and log false finds he is only fooling himself. I'm in the game to enjoy myself and will not become a geo-policeman.

And personally, of all the cachers I respect (and generally those that have been in the hobby for a while and keep going) are the ones who have the higher level of caching etiquette. i think very few of those cachers are fooled by the cacher who sends themselves valentines flowers.

Unfortunately, this will continue, but a good example, and passing on the good practices at events and when meeting other cachers, and praising good caching (great logs, trading up, maintaining another cache when possible with logsheets etc.) are all laudable and if we keep up with this, hopefully people will rise to the top, rather than sinking to the bottom.

The quotes above says it all.

Signing your own cache as a find is about the same as a false find. OR telling your friends where you have hidden your caches before they published so he can claim a first to find. This has happend before as well.

[+PieterM]

I don't know if this is fairplay or not.

 

In my experience if cacher xx find the cache I can predict the next 3 - 4 cachers over the following days that will find the cache. If the cache is hard to find it is even more obvious which cachers will be next. Whats the challenge to go search/look for a cache if you already know where and what it is ?

[+cownchicken]

The Josephson Institute of Ethics in their ‘Six Pillars of Character’ says the following:

 

Honesty in conduct is playing by the rules, without stealing, cheating, fraud, subterfuge and other trickery. Cheating is a particularly foul form of dishonesty because one not only seeks to deceive but to take advantage of those who are not cheating. It’s a two-fer: a violation of both trust and fairness.

[+trevorh7000]

The Josephson Institute of Ethics in their 'Six Pillars of Character' says the following:

 

Honesty in conduct is playing by the rules, without stealing, cheating, fraud, subterfuge and other trickery. Cheating is a particularly foul form of dishonesty because one not only seeks to deceive but to take advantage of those who are not cheating. It's a two-fer: a violation of both trust and fairness.

 

Nice sentiments.

 

But in the end analysis we should not be too hard to judge. It is only a game after all and someone "falsely" logging a cache does nor one any harm. If there is anyone on this group that has never copied a music album or movie or even watched someone else copy let them raise their hand. See where I am going here?

 

I woudl never log a cache that I never found or that was missing when I got to GZ, Actually I have once - I was in the presence of the CO and he saw I had the right place and he confirmed the cache to be missing and that he woudl replace it the next day or two. He said go ahead and log it so I did. An unusual circumstance to be sure and I feel justified as did the CO that that was all good. Maybe the purist will have a problem with that but I do not.

 

Mainly don't let it bother you as that solves nothing. Delete errant logs if you are sure they are false if you feel like it.

 

I have also logged a few puzzle caches with out solving the puzzle first. I am happy enough to do it as I still physically get to the GZ and sign the log. Some people woudl be a little uncomfortable with this perhaps. So they woudl alwasy solve the puzzle first. Some of the puzzles are so hard that it is no fun any more (to try and solve the puzzle!) Magnum PI anyone?

 

trev

[Tuatara1]

Another strange coincidence, whenever certain cachers find a cache you can bet your life on who will be the next and the next to find that cache. Why tell where to find the cache and what it looks like ? The fun is looking and searching for it.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Tuatara1

[+the pooks]

The Josephson Institute of Ethics in their 'Six Pillars of Character' says the following:

 

Honesty in conduct is playing by the rules, without stealing, cheating, fraud, subterfuge and other trickery. Cheating is a particularly foul form of dishonesty because one not only seeks to deceive but to take advantage of those who are not cheating. It's a two-fer: a violation of both trust and fairness.

 

Nice sentiments.

 

But in the end analysis we should not be too hard to judge. It is only a game after all and someone "falsely" logging a cache does nor one any harm. If there is anyone on this group that has never copied a music album or movie or even watched someone else copy let them raise their hand. See where I am going here?

 

I woudl never log a cache that I never found or that was missing when I got to GZ, Actually I have once - I was in the presence of the CO and he saw I had the right place and he confirmed the cache to be missing and that he woudl replace it the next day or two. He said go ahead and log it so I did. An unusual circumstance to be sure and I feel justified as did the CO that that was all good. Maybe the purist will have a problem with that but I do not.

 

Mainly don't let it bother you as that solves nothing. Delete errant logs if you are sure they are false if you feel like it.

 

I have also logged a few puzzle caches with out solving the puzzle first. I am happy enough to do it as I still physically get to the GZ and sign the log. Some people woudl be a little uncomfortable with this perhaps. So they woudl alwasy solve the puzzle first. Some of the puzzles are so hard that it is no fun any more (to try and solve the puzzle!) Magnum PI anyone?

 

trev

 

I have two observations:

1. Why Trevor in his post keeps spellign would sa "woudl". The interesting part is that he does it more than once. Is it a keyboard wiring error. Can it be a brain synapsis aberration. Can it just be late at night?

 

2. I get majorly understressed by the details. The only "rule" that I know of of "you sign the log you get the smiley". How you get there is entirely your own business. As Trevor stated in his example - if you can justify that you were part of the experience then that is also OK. Fortunately I haven't been confronted with the situation, but I would not easily delete someone's log. To each his/her own.

 

Any clues on Magnum?

 

PS: Edited to add. The previous post refers. I object to names being mentioned in a negative light on these forums. It is not necessary. If you have an observation to make about a principle, do that without mentioning names.

Edited August 5, 2012 by the pooks

[+cownchicken]

 

PS: Edited to add. The previous post refers. I object to names being mentioned in a negative light on these forums. It is not necessary. If you have an observation to make about a principle, do that without mentioning names.

 

Couldn't agree more with The Pooks.

Another Fair Play question arises - why is someone tearing our logs out of caches we have recently found? Is this trying to discredit us?

[+cownchicken]

Okay, we have had people saying that these cachers are only cheating themselves. Yes, in a sense this is true.

But this is not the entire truth. They are cheating us as well and their fellow cachers.

Every year at our Event Cache in December we salute fellow cachers on doing difficult caches and hand out geocoins to cachers who have achieved 2000 or 3000 finds. This practice was started by by Gerhardoos.MPZA. For the last two years this has been at our own expence.

This December Battlerat & Pussycat qualify for a coin. All their caches have been earned through hard work and we have spent many hours caching together with them.

We are aware of quite a few cachers not even being near caches that they are logging - 'would you feel happy trying to fool us or your fellow cachers who really do deserve recognition of their achievements?' Think about it and decide if you can look us in the face at the next Event Cache.

It is up to you fellow cachers to decide if this will be the last time we hand out these rewards or host this end of the year event next year.

Sadly we cannot condone any of the happenings that are taking place now.

By now the guilty parties should be aware that we know who you are.

Also to those of you who tore our logs out of the logbooks, we are also aware of who you are.

C'est la vie - you have to live with your deceit and your god.

[+malo mystery]

No names mentioned, but to quote:

 

"I have two observations:

1. Why Trevor in his post keeps spellign would sa "woudl". The interesting part is that he does it more than once. Is it a keyboard wiring error. Can it be a brain synapsis aberration. Can it just be late at night? "

 

A perfect example of:

Muphry's law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with Murphy's law.

Muphry's law is an adage that states that "if you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written". The name is a deliberate misspelling of Murphy's law.

[+the pooks]

spellign would sa

 

Mine was also deliberate as it was not meant to criticise, but just fooling around, adding a bit of humour

[+Wazat]

No names mentioned, but to quote:

 

"I have two observations:

1. Why Trevor in his post keeps spellign would sa "woudl". The interesting part is that he does it more than once. Is it a keyboard wiring error. Can it be a brain synapsis aberration. Can it just be late at night? "

 

A perfect example of:

Muphry's law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with Murphy's law.

Muphry's law is an adage that states that "if you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written". The name is a deliberate misspelling of Murphy's law.

So what you saying is if I misspelt my name in a log i would not be able to log it online....

Give me a Bells, I think i need one

[Tuatara1]

One of the cachers that found Article are giving away the coordinates of my Do the Maths cache. The point of a puzzle cache is to work it out for yourself and if someone struggles with the problem, help them. But just giving it away..... Fair play ?

Edited August 10, 2012 by Tuatara1

[Sasha Benjamin]

Hello I've posted a topic on the geocaching forum about South Africans willing to help a bunch of cachers with a road trip from Knysna to Durban.

 

I by mistake put it in the wrong section, and i know this is the wrong topic but i need to reach the right people and not someone in Slovakia

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=299991&st=0&p=5097152&fromsearch=1entry5097152

 

Any help would be much appreciated

[+GEO936]

Hello I've posted a topic on the geocaching forum about South Africans willing to help a bunch of cachers with a road trip from Knysna to Durban.

 

I by mistake put it in the wrong section, and i know this is the wrong topic but i need to reach the right people and not someone in Slovakia

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=299991&st=0&p=5097152&fromsearch=1entry5097152

 

Any help would be much appreciated

 

Hey Sasha..the dudes at Groundspeak already moved your post/thread to the right place!

[+trevorh7000]

No names mentioned, but to quote:

 

"I have two observations:

1. Why Trevor in his post keeps spellign would sa "woudl". The interesting part is that he does it more than once. Is it a keyboard wiring error. Can it be a brain synapsis aberration. Can it just be late at night? "

 

A perfect example of:

Muphry's law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with Murphy's law.

Muphry's law is an adage that states that "if you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written". The name is a deliberate misspelling of Murphy's law.

 

Nice one Malo - I too have been guilty of making a correction only to have a mistake in my post!

 

But since there was some interest as to why I so frequently spell would as woudl the reason is not clear. I have picked up this problem with words such as could woudl shoudl (ok I see should spelled wrong - but left it as I really was trying to be careful - I think it is just the typing but I have being doing it for a while.).

 

But my spell check woudl normally underline in red the misspelled words nut since it is so often misspelled and I normally choose the correct spelling from the list, one day I added the misspelled word to my dictionary so now when I misspell it I do not notice!!!!!

 

It has annoyed me as there is no way in Firefox to edit the dictionary do I never bothered - till now.

 

So thanks Pooks - I opened my dictionary and removed the only two entries - both of which were misspellings.

 

So for others with similar frustrations here is how to do it

 

http://cavemonkey50.com/2007/03/edit-firefoxs-spelling-dictionary/

 

You can safely ignore the instruction to shutdown Firfox - I edited that file with Firefox running no problem.

 

woudla coudla shoudla - and finally I DID!

 

Trev

[Tuatara1]

It seems I was wrong about some-one giving away coordinates for Do the Maths. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

 

Gavin

[+CapeDoc]

Example of armchair geocaching on one of mine today (note the date of the "find"):

 

You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing.

 

Location: Western Cape, South Africa

"A cacher" found Table Mountain Travel Bug Hotel (Traditional Cache) at 12/12/2011

 

Log Date: 12/12/2011

Nice

 

Visit this log entry at the below address:

http://coord.info/GL92J1X3

 

Visit Table Mountain Travel Bug Hotel

http://coord.info/GC31WXR

 

Profile for cacher

Edited August 22, 2012 by CapeDoc
cacher name removed

[+cownchicken]

Example of armchair geocaching on one of mine today (note the date of the "find"):

 

You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing.

 

Location: Western Cape, South Africa

A cacher found Table Mountain Travel Bug Hotel (Traditional Cache) at 12/12/2011

 

Log Date: 12/12/2011

Nice

 

Delete the log.

What a guy!

How many caches did he bypass on the way to find the ones he has logged. No serious geocachers would ride past those easy roadside caches!

Edited August 22, 2012 by GlobalRat
Cacher name removed

[+Fish Eagle]

Example of armchair geocaching on one of mine today (note the date of the "find"):

 

You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing.

 

Location: Western Cape, South Africa

A cacher found Table Mountain Travel Bug Hotel (Traditional Cache) at 12/12/2011

 

Log Date: 12/12/2011

Nice

 

I think you're jumping to conclusions.

On the surface it looks bogus, but dig a bit deeper....

If that log was on one of my caches, I'd view it as genuine.

 

Edit: remove some more personal cacher details.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Fish Eagle
Cacher name removed

[+cownchicken]

Just one question - how does one travel from Mozambique, via the Garden Route to the West Coast in one day?

[+Tricky Vicky & Mickey]

I find this quite interesting - according to Louis's profile, he joined geocaching on the 14.07.2012, but has logged caches from 2009. Also he has done caches in Mozambique, West Coast, Limpopo, Garden Route and Gauteng all on the 28th July 2012 ..............

 

One really does have to wonder if this is for real!

[+Fish Eagle]

Just one question - how does one travel from Mozambique, via the Garden Route to the West Coast in one day?

You don't, and I'm quite sure he didn't travel to all those places in one day.

As I said, please dig a bit deeper. It took me 30 seconds to work out what's happened.

Do I believe he found those caches? Oh yes.

[+Fish Eagle]

Here's a link to my daughter's profile

You'll see that it was created in 2007, and if you scroll down to her very 1st geocache find you'll see it was in 2005 - wow.

Fortunately, her father was already quite an experienced geocacher in 2007, and helped her write (and date) her logs accordingly, which will hopefully avoid her being branded as a cheat and a fraud.

 

Looking at the profile of the parents of the cacher in question - well, the good doctor (I assume his father) doesn't have that level of experience. And I assume that the cacher was unaware that there was a gallery waiting to brand him a fraud, else he'd have been more careful with dating his logs. Maybe, being a youngster (I presume), he might not be highly computer literate yet?

[+the pooks]

....Maybe, being a youngster (I presume), he might not be highly computer literate yet?

 

Dawdling off topic a bit, but being a youngster and computer literacy are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts!

[+cownchicken]

And I assume that the cacher was unaware that there was a gallery waiting to brand him a fraud, else he'd have been more careful with dating his logs. Maybe, being a youngster (I presume), he might not be highly computer literate yet?

 

With what is happening in the Western Cape at present we are very wary of strange logs. We apologise to the young man in question.

We did not intentionally mean to brand him as a fraud.

[Tuatara1]

Some people just rule

Edited September 24, 2012 by Tuatara1