Self promotion?

[+tozainamboku]

Again I do not intend or want to make a cache like that I'm just into seeing people's opinions. How would one feel knowing it was a "sponsored" cache or company owned cache but it was crazy insane good...would you look over the sponsorship?

If your point is that the APE caches were very popular, it may be that a commercial cache hidden with Groundpeak's permission, might attract a lot of cachers. Certainly a cache set this way is likely to start out with high quality swag from the sponsor. I believe the APE caches had swag related to the movie and even contained some props used in the movie.

 

That "good" swag wouldn't last long however and you would soon find these not much different from any other cache.

 

As usual, the forum tends to attract more of those who see advertising as evil (or at least as something that has no place in geocaching), rather than understanding the true rationale for the guidelines and taking the time to think that the OP might actually be proposing leaving something that they might actually like to find in a cache (other than his business card).

[+JesandTodd]

As usual, the forum tends to attract more of those who see advertising as evil (or at least as something that has no place in geocaching), rather than understanding the true rationale for the guidelines and taking the time to think that the OP might actually be proposing leaving something that they might actually like to find in a cache (other than his business card).

 

Amount of craptastic business cards smeared at the bottom of an ammo can vs legitimately cool swag left as advertisement......hmm. Not sure I can even come up an accurate ratio... Lets wing it and say 1000:1

 

There's a lot to be said for, you know, personal experience.

[+Chokecherry]

As usual, the forum tends to attract more of those who see advertising as evil (or at least as something that has no place in geocaching), rather than understanding the true rationale for the guidelines and taking the time to think that the OP might actually be proposing leaving something that they might actually like to find in a cache (other than his business card).

 

Amount of craptastic business cards smeared at the bottom of an ammo can vs legitimately cool swag left as advertisement......hmm. Not sure I can even come up an accurate ratio... Lets wing it and say 1000:1

 

There's a lot to be said for, you know, personal experience.

 

The OP specifically asked about a business card which could be why some people are responding to that specifically.

[knowschad]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

[+The_Incredibles_]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

 

Yep, not swag. Neither are rocks or sticks. In addition to wiping down and cleaning up caches when I find them, I remove garbage and other non-swag items, this includes business cards.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

As usual, the forum tends to attract more of those who see advertising as evil (or at least as something that has no place in geocaching), rather than understanding the true rationale for the guidelines and taking the time to think that the OP might actually be proposing leaving something that they might actually like to find in a cache (other than his business card).

 

There might be good reason why many forum users see advertising as evil. I started participating in usenet forum in around 1984 or so. In the early days of usenet , commercial advertisement in any form was strictly forbidden. I remember one of the early attempts when one of the first commercial ISPs would automatically tag every posting made on their site with just the name of the ISP and a phone number. The ruckus that caused even prompted some usenet sites to block any posting coming from that ISP. But attempts at commercial solicitation continued in the forums and some argued "I don't mind seeing posts about [insert some product tangentially related to the forum topic here]...If you don't like them, just ignore the posts. When Usenet became less popular and many discussions migrated to mailing lists and web based forums such as this one, that "if you don't like it, just ignore it" attitude became more common and commercial enterprises saw mailing lists and forums and a market that could be used for very cheap advertisement. SPAM (not the kind in a can) became a household word and not millions, if not billions of dollars are spent every year blocking unwanted commercial advertisement.

 

We all play a game called geocaching. Let's keep it about geocaching and only about geocaching. It's one of the few recreational activities one can engage in that is still mostly advertising free (at least, when we're actually out geocaching). Let's keep it that way, and to me, that includes what we put into caches and write into our logs.

[+tozainamboku]

As usual, the forum tends to attract more of those who see advertising as evil (or at least as something that has no place in geocaching), rather than understanding the true rationale for the guidelines and taking the time to think that the OP might actually be proposing leaving something that they might actually like to find in a cache (other than his business card).

 

Amount of craptastic business cards smeared at the bottom of an ammo can vs legitimately cool swag left as advertisement......hmm. Not sure I can even come up an accurate ratio... Lets wing it and say 1000:1

 

There's a lot to be said for, you know, personal experience.

Perhaps. Cause I don't have that experience. Sure there are a lot business cards left in caches. Most that I see are not there for advertising. They might be left as a signature item, or perhaps someone left theirs because the log was full or they forgot a pen. They don't take up much room and are easily disposed of if they do.

 

On the other hand, in my experience, I'm much more likely to find someone left some item that I might trade for that has the name of some company or product on it. I'm not sure of the actual ratio so I won't throw out a facetious number like 1000 to 1, but certainly these far outnumber business cards.

 

Often these are promotional advertising items like a pens, flashlights, or clips. Sometimes it's a toy that with the name some fast food chain on the wrapper. Sometimes it an empty container with only the advertising left one it - and geocachers will grab these items up to make a cache. In fact I find a lot of caches that have the name of the product previously contained in them prominently displayed.

 

Sorry that we live in a world where companies put their names on their products or on the containers that hold their products. Sorry that sometimes companies give away promotional items that they hope will remind people that they provide some different product or service. There may be a few places left on earth where you can get items without advertising on them. But in those places where you might be protected from unwanted advertising you probably would have to put up with government propaganda instead. I'll take commercialism over items emblazoned with the great leader's face or covered in his words of wisdom.

[+Don_J]

 

As usual, the forum tends to attract more of those who see advertising as evil (or at least as something that has no place in geocaching), rather than understanding the true rationale for the guidelines and taking the time to think that the OP might actually be proposing leaving something that they might actually like to find in a cache (other than his business card).

 

There might be good reason why many forum users see advertising as evil. I started participating in usenet forum in around 1984 or so. In the early days of usenet , commercial advertisement in any form was strictly forbidden. I remember one of the early attempts when one of the first commercial ISPs would automatically tag every posting made on their site with just the name of the ISP and a phone number. The ruckus that caused even prompted some usenet sites to block any posting coming from that ISP. But attempts at commercial solicitation continued in the forums and some argued "I don't mind seeing posts about [insert some product tangentially related to the forum topic here]...If you don't like them, just ignore the posts. When Usenet became less popular and many discussions migrated to mailing lists and web based forums such as this one, that "if you don't like it, just ignore it" attitude became more common and commercial enterprises saw mailing lists and forums and a market that could be used for very cheap advertisement. SPAM (not the kind in a can) became a household word and not millions, if not billions of dollars are spent every year blocking unwanted commercial advertisement.

 

We all play a game called geocaching. Let's keep it about geocaching and only about geocaching. It's one of the few recreational activities one can engage in that is still mostly advertising free (at least, when we're actually out geocaching). Let's keep it that way, and to me, that includes what we put into caches and write into our logs.

 

I understand this, and I agree, we shouldn't be spamming other people's caches. My comments earlier today were not about business cards. They were about useful items and coupons. If there is a coupon for a free burger at the local shack and you don't want it, leave it for the next guy. More importantly, don't assume that the owner of the burger shack put it there and penalize his business. We had a guy that was leaving Starbucks gift cards as a FTF prize. He wasn't doing it because he wanted to promote Starbucks, he did it because he wanted to buy the FTF'er a cup of coffee.

 

I realize that not everyone agrees, but I see a carabiner with a logo on it, or a valid useful coupon as something different than a business card or a flyer from the used car lot down the street. I guess it is just me, but I think that taking useful items out of someone elses cache and throwing them away because you don't approve of them, is just plain wrong, unless you are trading for them. That just my thoughts. If no one agrees, I promise I wont let my feelings get hurt.

[knowschad]

As usual, the forum tends to attract more of those who see advertising as evil (or at least as something that has no place in geocaching), rather than understanding the true rationale for the guidelines and taking the time to think that the OP might actually be proposing leaving something that they might actually like to find in a cache (other than his business card).

So, let me get this straight... the forums tend to attract people that see advertising as evil? I'll have to get back to you on that one. At this point, it makes about as much sense as something about fish and bicycles. Oh, and tying that in with a failure to understand the rationale for the guidelines... a few of us are able to form opinions on our own that have nothing at all to do with the guidelines.

[+terrkan78]

But, it is tacky to remove things from a cache you don't like unless you are the owner of the cache.

 

Hmm, if I found something disappointing in a cache I would trade it out for something better, same as if I found something really neat. So long as I'm legitimately trading up I don't see why it matters why I wanted to make the trade.

 

Just a newbie's 2c.

Absolutely - trade up/even and then it's yours to do what you like with it. If it's swag that violates game guidelines, or if it's truly garbage (mushy, moldy, etc), then I don't see a particular need to trade for it (but it's generous to do so). It's been mentioned on the forums previously how some folks are offended by certain types of swag (swag that's arguably within the guidelines) and they routinely trade for it and pitch it in the garbage. Absolutely fine.

 

So, I can trade my business card for someone else's business card?

 

Absolutely. But that does raise questions re the crinkled-but-not-yet-completely-trashed business card found in the bottom of the cache. How far up are you willing to trade? Maybe that card is only worth, say, 1/4 of your card?

 

Perhaps a thorough analysis of motives is warranted with each and every cache one comes across that's stuffed with business cards:

 

1. The "I might actually use the service this business card is offering" approach obviously requires no trading. There's gotta be some sort of blanket exception for that in the trade up/even rule.

 

2. The "who puts this kinda crap in a cache" motive arguably ought to include a trade (since the speaker is undoubtedly going to appropriate said "crap" in its entirety). Now maybe they value it at zero and trade zero. I'm good with that.

 

3. The "there's more green slime in the bottom of this cache than in that pond over there and I'm gonna clean it up" motive actually initiates a reversal of the trade up/even clause. Once you're done cleaning the cache (assuming you do more than pitch the slimy contents behind a nearby bush) the cache now owes you (rather than you owing it a trade up/even). Collecting might be tough.

 

[knowschad]

But, it is tacky to remove things from a cache you don't like unless you are the owner of the cache.

 

Hmm, if I found something disappointing in a cache I would trade it out for something better, same as if I found something really neat. So long as I'm legitimately trading up I don't see why it matters why I wanted to make the trade.

 

Just a newbie's 2c.

Absolutely - trade up/even and then it's yours to do what you like with it. If it's swag that violates game guidelines, or if it's truly garbage (mushy, moldy, etc), then I don't see a particular need to trade for it (but it's generous to do so). It's been mentioned on the forums previously how some folks are offended by certain types of swag (swag that's arguably within the guidelines) and they routinely trade for it and pitch it in the garbage. Absolutely fine.

 

So, I can trade my business card for someone else's business card?

 

Absolutely. But that does raise questions

<snip>

 

It would be tough to trade for this one!

[+The Jester]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

[+The Jester]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

 

Yep, not swag. Neither are rocks or sticks. In addition to wiping down and cleaning up caches when I find them, I remove garbage and other non-swag items, this includes business cards.

Who made you queen of swag? Just because you don't think it's swag, nobody else gets to decide? "I don't like it so throw it out" does reek of self entitlement.

[knowschad]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

 

Yep, not swag. Neither are rocks or sticks. In addition to wiping down and cleaning up caches when I find them, I remove garbage and other non-swag items, this includes business cards.

Who made you queen of swag? Just because you don't think it's swag, nobody else gets to decide? "I don't like it so throw it out" does reek of self entitlement.

 

Do you never make a judgement call and dispose of things from a cache that you decide is not worthwhile swag? You don't remove the random stick or stone or soggy expired coupon? You just leave what you consider junk in there because somebody else might find it worthwhile? You can call me King of Swag if you'd like, but I do not believe that business cards are swag.

[+JesandTodd]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

[knowschad]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

It has been my understanding that that is what most of us were discussing. Certainly that is what I have been responding to.

[+Don_J]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

Mac Donald's and Geocachers. What does one have to do with the other? Why would you hope that most Geocachers would avoid Mac Donald's?

[TheChallengeGuy]

Wow. Thank you for the many replies! Can't believe my first post attracted so many different answers.

 

I should have specified my product. I have left a meal replacement shake and also left an energy drink. Both are in completely sealed packages and should not attract animals at all. The shake is about 2x3" and less than 1/4" thick. The energy drink is about the length of 2 "crystal lite water mix ins". Both can be, individually, mixed into water and consumed right there, or saved for later. The business card was stapled to the product package because the package itself does not contain any contact info or any details of where they could order it.

 

I guess if the general consensus is that business cards are tacky, I could just sharpie my website on the package, right?

 

Again....thank you to all who replied. I appreciate the insights!

 

Cheers

 

TheChallengeGuy

[+germanybert]

So it IS multi level marketing. NO. Don't put anythiing edible or drinkable in cache. Would you eat or drink something you found and did not know who put it there? Come on man that does not even make ANY sense.

 

When I find candy, tea mixs, kool aid packets I just grab them and throw them away. They draw bugs and animals to the cache and just sit there because most people are not stupid enough to eat or drink something they find in a box.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Geo Jedimeister

[+Lady Loki]

Wow. Thank you for the many replies! Can't believe my first post attracted so many different answers.

 

I should have specified my product. I have left a meal replacement shake and also left an energy drink. Both are in completely sealed packages and should not attract animals at all. The shake is about 2x3" and less than 1/4" thick. The energy drink is about the length of 2 "crystal lite water mix ins". Both can be, individually, mixed into water and consumed right there, or saved for later. The business card was stapled to the product package because the package itself does not contain any contact info or any details of where they could order it.

 

I guess if the general consensus is that business cards are tacky, I could just sharpie my website on the package, right?

 

Again....thank you to all who replied. I appreciate the insights!

 

Cheers

 

TheChallengeGuy

I'm thinking that sounds like a bad idea to leave in a cache. It's still an edible/drinkable/food-type item, and even in sealed packages, animals have much better smellers than humans do.

[+JesandTodd]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

Mac Donald's and Geocachers. What does one have to do with the other? Why would you hope that most Geocachers would avoid Mac Donald's?

 

I'm really hoping *most* people would avoid mcdonalds, personally...

 

But specifically, most caches in my area require a bit of hiking, and therefore, a bit of healthy behavior. I would hope most of us who engage in the healthy behavior of hiking, walking, exercising, etc, would avoid the disgusting filth that is McDonalds. I can't remember a time...in the part DECADE, that I've eaten there. I'd have to be on survivor island....and even then....

Edited May 29, 2012 by JesandTodd

[+JesandTodd]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

It has been my understanding that that is what most of us were discussing. Certainly that is what I have been responding to.

 

Yes...I think the majority of us are discussing ths same thing here...

[+Don_J]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

Mac Donald's and Geocachers. What does one have to do with the other? Why would you hope that most Geocachers would avoid Mac Donald's?

 

I'm really hoping *most* people would avoid mcdonalds, personally...

 

But specifically, most caches in my area require a bit of hiking, and therefore, a bit of healthy behavior. I would hope most of us who engage in the healthy behavior of hiking, walking, exercising, etc, would avoid the disgusting filth that is McDonalds. I can't remember a time...in the part DECADE, that I've eaten there. I'd have to be on survivor island....and even then....

 

So, no agendas for Geocaches, but you have a personal agenda for Geocachers. Got it!

[+The_Incredibles_]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

 

Yep, not swag. Neither are rocks or sticks. In addition to wiping down and cleaning up caches when I find them, I remove garbage and other non-swag items, this includes business cards.

Who made you queen of swag? Just because you don't think it's swag, nobody else gets to decide? "I don't like it so throw it out" does reek of self entitlement.

 

LMAO. So what you're saying is you like rocks and sticks and I should leave them in caches? I do not remove swag I don't like. I remove garbage and business cards. When I say 'garbage', I mean garbage, literally. Rocks, sticks, bits of plastic, empty gum packages. I wish more people would do that frankly.

Edited May 29, 2012 by The_Incredibles_

[+The_Incredibles_]

Wow. Thank you for the many replies! Can't believe my first post attracted so many different answers.

 

I should have specified my product. I have left a meal replacement shake and also left an energy drink. Both are in completely sealed packages and should not attract animals at all. The shake is about 2x3" and less than 1/4" thick. The energy drink is about the length of 2 "crystal lite water mix ins". Both can be, individually, mixed into water and consumed right there, or saved for later. The business card was stapled to the product package because the package itself does not contain any contact info or any details of where they could order it.

 

I guess if the general consensus is that business cards are tacky, I could just sharpie my website on the package, right?

 

Again....thank you to all who replied. I appreciate the insights!

 

Cheers

 

TheChallengeGuy

 

You're not supposed to leave food in a cache, period. I understand what you're trying to say about it being sealed. I was planing to put a can of Coke in a cache (sealed, right?). Hwoever, the reviewer told me to take it out.

[+Don_J]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

It has been my understanding that that is what most of us were discussing. Certainly that is what I have been responding to.

 

Yes...I think the majority of us are discussing ths same thing here...

 

Ah, but if you look at the furthest nested quote, you will see, "pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples". Most focused in on pamphlets and business cards. I'm guilty of focusing in on coupons and samples. I draw the line between the two. Of course, now that I know that the samples are a food/drink mix, I have to say, bad idea. Even if it's sealed, a critter is going to smell it and destroy the cache to get to it.

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

Clearly alot of people, geocachers included, like McDonalds food, which is why they have been so succesful. We go there about once/month. I don't think it's a terrible thing to enjoy a hot fudge sunday or a juicy angus burger once in a while.

[+Don_J]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

 

Yep, not swag. Neither are rocks or sticks. In addition to wiping down and cleaning up caches when I find them, I remove garbage and other non-swag items, this includes business cards.

Who made you queen of swag? Just because you don't think it's swag, nobody else gets to decide? "I don't like it so throw it out" does reek of self entitlement.

 

LMAO. So what you're saying is you like rocks and sticks and I should leave them in caches? I do not remove swag I don't like. I remove garbage and business cards. When I say 'garbage', I mean garbage, literally. Rocks, sticks, bits of plastic, empty gum packages. I wish more people would do that frankly.

 

I know a guy that wants you to put rocks and sticks in his cache.

[+JesandTodd]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'm speaking specifically of business type cards jester...anyway, I already avoid McD's, as I would hope most avid geocachers would...

 

Mac Donald's and Geocachers. What does one have to do with the other? Why would you hope that most Geocachers would avoid Mac Donald's?

 

I'm really hoping *most* people would avoid mcdonalds, personally...

 

But specifically, most caches in my area require a bit of hiking, and therefore, a bit of healthy behavior. I would hope most of us who engage in the healthy behavior of hiking, walking, exercising, etc, would avoid the disgusting filth that is McDonalds. I can't remember a time...in the part DECADE, that I've eaten there. I'd have to be on survivor island....and even then....

 

So, no agendas for Geocaches, but you have a personal agenda for Geocachers. Got it!

 

No. I don't think you "got it!" at all...

I think McDonald's is digusting. That's what I *think*. I also think business cards in geocaches are tacky.

 

I'm not sure where I've created an "agenda" for all geocachers. Please help show me where that happened!!

I think you're confusing hope for agenda. That happens all the time

 

Im also not sure how you've linked my distaste for disgusting fast food, and business cards, with some sort of agenda...I think you're being a bit..I dunno...dramatic here.

 

I think you have a bit more invested in this thread, and might be seeing things....not so clearly.

 

To summarize:

1. McDonald's is disgusting. (how did we get on this subject of fast food again???)

2. Business cards are tacky, and usually willbe CITOd by conscientious cachers.

Edited May 29, 2012 by JesandTodd

[zyzzyvette]

Oh man, and I was worried I was being too harsh before...

 

You can't possibly know for sure that these packages will stay sealed after spending some time in the elements, even if you are right that it's 100% sealed now. So you're leaving stuff in caches that's not only intentional advertisement for a pyramid scheme but has the potential to attract wild animals or to spill and ruin everything else in the cache. And you think this improves the cache how?

 

It's not the form of the ad that's tacky, it's the fact that your goal in leaving it there is to serve your own commercial interests. Whether you write or staple the ad doesn't make much of a difference. People don't put out caches, or hunt for them, to save you money in advertising costs. A big ad in the Calgary Sun is, what, less than $1k? If you're really making over $72,000 a month, you should be able to afford that many times over...

[+The_Incredibles_]

People don't put out caches, or hunt for them, to save you money in advertising costs.

 

Yep. Reminds me of how annoyed I am by businesses who join my meetup group (which I pay for), not because they want to actually attend meetups, but rather to get free advertising (i.e. business name as their meetup name with of course, a link to their website in their profile). Same thing. People put time and money into their caches, so others can have fun, not so someone can promote their business.

Edited May 29, 2012 by The_Incredibles_

[+fluoro]

"queen of swag"

[+oxford comma]

I wouldn't eat./ drink anything from a cache no matter how well it was sealed.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

 

Yep, not swag. Neither are rocks or sticks. In addition to wiping down and cleaning up caches when I find them, I remove garbage and other non-swag items, this includes business cards.

Who made you queen of swag? Just because you don't think it's swag, nobody else gets to decide? "I don't like it so throw it out" does reek of self entitlement.

 

So does, "I don't mind seeing commercial solicitation swag, business cards from person injury lawyers, or religious tracts in caches, therefore this kind of swag should be allowed in caches for every one else to discover".

[+Chokecherry]

I look at pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples left in a cache, take note of it and remember it as a business I won't be spending any money at. .

 

Me too.

 

Don J- i wont spend my money at these places because of their tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement. I've just hiked all the way up to this cache, I don't want to see your (figuratively speaking) crap in a cache!

 

Put real trade items in there, or nothing at all. I'm tired of people filling caches with junk.

 

And I too, will toss them into my cito bag.

So because some random cacher drops an item from a business in a cache (such as free McD toys or a pen with a business name on it) you will avoid that business? Man, you must not do business with very many places, as almost all business have some sort of logo'd items, i.e.. "tacky and tasteless methods of advertisement".

 

I'll go back pre-McD meltdown and reply to this since I was quote and since I was partially quoted in there I will clarify yet again. I was very specific in the items listed that would make me not go to a business. I don't care if someone throws in a logoed useful item but here's the reality where I am.

 

Some pyramid scheme people in the area have decided to use caches to market their wares with samples. Peppered a bunch of caches with their garbage. And not just one or two. They left multiples of their crap in those caches. Know what happens to a sealed health drink mix after being moist for a long time and going through weather changes? Sticky gooey mess in a cache with a bunch of business cards. I do take note of those cards and remember them and will not purchase their stuff.

 

Even more profoundly annoying to me was in a place where I cache often a business decide to put a cache out at their place of business (and name it after the business). How it got past the commercial cache guidelines is beyond me but it did. Those same business people went out with piles of coupons and peppered that area and all the caches with literally piles of coupons. Every cache I stopped at I had to wade through all their stupid coupons to just get to a log book. Before finding their garbage all over it's a business I would have stopped at but the fact they felt the need to make a hobby into a giant advertisement for a business no way.

 

I don't care if logoed, useful stuff is in a cache. But I do care when individuals purposely use the cache as their advertisement for their businesses like that. It's obnoxious and tacky.

[knowschad]

Ah, but if you look at the furthest nested quote, you will see, "pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples". Most focused in on pamphlets and business cards. I'm guilty of focusing in on coupons and samples. I draw the line between the two. Of course, now that I know that the samples are a food/drink mix, I have to say, bad idea. Even if it's sealed, a critter is going to smell it and destroy the cache to get to it.

I think most of us are actually looking more at the intent than the actual object. I personally don't mind McToys, even though they are advertising for McD's (in a way, at least). If McDonald's managers were going out and dropping them into caches with the intent of generating business for their stores, I would have a problem with that, but if you drop a McD toy in a cache as swag, I would not. Same stuff, different intent. (I still would probably not be removing said McToys even if it were the manager, but I wouldn't be happy with them, either)

[+Dan2099]

Ah, but if you look at the furthest nested quote, you will see, "pamphlets, coupons, business cards and samples". Most focused in on pamphlets and business cards. I'm guilty of focusing in on coupons and samples. I draw the line between the two. Of course, now that I know that the samples are a food/drink mix, I have to say, bad idea. Even if it's sealed, a critter is going to smell it and destroy the cache to get to it.

I think most of us are actually looking more at the intent than the actual object. I personally don't mind McToys, even though they are advertising for McD's (in a way, at least). If McDonald's managers were going out and dropping them into caches with the intent of generating business for their stores, I would have a problem with that, but if you drop a McD toy in a cache as swag, I would not. Same stuff, different intent. (I still would probably not be removing said McToys even if it were the manager, but I wouldn't be happy with them, either)

 

I don't cache with a kid but if I did I would be thankful someone left a Mctoy in the cache I would imagine if I was a little kid that toy would seem like treasure. Also pamphlets, coupons depends on what and why they are there....I would not look down at a coupon to a sporting goods store that sold outdoor equipment, same thing if the pamphlet happened to have something worthwhile for me to know or learn....basically I am saying there is always an exception to the rule....if you do not need the "swag" doesn't mean the next guy wouldn't.

 

Although sticking to food/drink mix I honestly would never ever touch it, and think that's probably a poor idea even if it has the best intentions

[+The Jester]

Do you never make a judgement call and dispose of things from a cache that you decide is not worthwhile swag? You don't remove the random stick or stone or soggy expired coupon? You just leave what you consider junk in there because somebody else might find it worthwhile? You can call me King of Swag if you'd like, but I do not believe that business cards are swag.

But that's just your opinion. By removing them you are forcing that view on others. I know of people who collect business cards, so why are you not letting them make a choice to take them? Not all business cards are soggy/wet/mouldy/etc.. I've seen many that are in the baggie with the logbook and are in great shape (I'm in the Great Pacific NorthWet where WET contents is a way of life), also (for example) my business card will not get soggy no matter how long you leave it in water - it's a magnetic sheet, no paper involved (and no, I don't generally leave them in caches).

[+The Jester]

LMAO. So what you're saying is you like rocks and sticks and I should leave them in caches? I do not remove swag I don't like. I remove garbage and business cards. When I say 'garbage', I mean garbage, literally. Rocks, sticks, bits of plastic, empty gum packages. I wish more people would do that frankly.

Garbage, yes. But a business card, because it's a business card, no. You're equating a 'business card' as 'garbage' because you don't think they are swag. As I said above, most that I've seen are in fine shape. I don't like that some people are forcing their opinion on others.

 

I kind of like knowing what other cachers do in their "spare time" (i.e.. when not caching), every once in a while you find a rare/odd/different profession (like me, I'm a magician).

[+The Jester]

If your business is Amway or ANY other multi-level-marketing then HELL NO!

 

I would ignore any business cards in a cache and would probably grab them and throw away. You have not said what your product is. If it is useful for geocaching then it might be welcome.

 

You are the third person in this thread to state that you would take items out of someone elses cache and throw them away simply because you didn't approve of them. What gives you that right? The self entitlement that I keep reading in this thread reeks.

 

Business cards aren't swag. Shall I repeat that?

 

Yep, not swag. Neither are rocks or sticks. In addition to wiping down and cleaning up caches when I find them, I remove garbage and other non-swag items, this includes business cards.

Who made you queen of swag? Just because you don't think it's swag, nobody else gets to decide? "I don't like it so throw it out" does reek of self entitlement.

 

So does, "I don't mind seeing commercial solicitation swag, business cards from person injury lawyers, or religious tracts in caches, therefore this kind of swag should be allowed in caches for every one else to discover".

Really? "I don't like xx so no one else can like/find it" is the same as "Everyone can choose to ignore what they don't like"? One is enforcing your opinion on others, the other let's everyone have an opinion.

[ll JK ll]

The only time I would like to see a business card is if it's a great design (I'm a sucker for graphic art). I would consider trading for one if it was well done. If it's Times Roman "Sammy's sewer service" then I leave it.

 

Sometimes I feel compelled to remove obvious marketing materials but I leave it up to the CO to do as he/she sees fit.

[knowschad]

Do you never make a judgement call and dispose of things from a cache that you decide is not worthwhile swag? You don't remove the random stick or stone or soggy expired coupon? You just leave what you consider junk in there because somebody else might find it worthwhile? You can call me King of Swag if you'd like, but I do not believe that business cards are swag.

But that's just your opinion. By removing them you are forcing that view on others. I know of people who collect business cards, so why are you not letting them make a choice to take them? Not all business cards are soggy/wet/mouldy/etc.. I've seen many that are in the baggie with the logbook and are in great shape (I'm in the Great Pacific NorthWet where WET contents is a way of life), also (for example) my business card will not get soggy no matter how long you leave it in water - it's a magnetic sheet, no paper involved (and no, I don't generally leave them in caches).

Yes, just as it is your opinion that they are swag. I reserve the right to make and hold my own opinions. I do not believe that business cards are swag. Note the words, "I do not believe" (or, more correctly, "I believe that business cards are not swag")

 

Likewise, by not removing them, you too are forcing your view on those that believe that business cards are not welcome in caches.

Edited May 29, 2012 by knowschad

[+germanybert]

You can not force me to have an opinion!

Edited May 29, 2012 by Geo Jedimeister

[Andronicus]

Just to stick up for the OP a bit, Multi-level Marketing is not necessarily the same as a pyramid scheme. The difference is whether it is possible to be successful without finding "new blood".

 

I often leave samples of my wife's Multi-level marketing company in caches. Other finders seem to enjoy trading for these Tupperware trinkets that I leave. I have never left her contact info on them though....

 

To the OP, if you are still reading; Please do not leave food products in caches, even if they are sealed. Packaging tends to deteriorate, and animals can smell even with the packaging (à la drug sniffing dogs).

Edited May 29, 2012 by Andronicus

[TheChallengeGuy]

Thanks to all. I will NOT leave any food related items in Caches. I found 6 today, and 3 contained business cards, so I will still debate that one, but understand the "why" as to not leave anything food related and will respect that.

 

As for the uneducated "pyramid scheme" remarks: I would LOVE to talk about how my pyramid (and I am proud to say I am in a pyramid)is very similar to your corporate pyramid, but will leave that for another day as to not sidetrack this thread.

 

Again...thank you to all for the input, both pro and con. Greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

TheChallengeGuy

[knowschad]

I know of people who collect business cards, so why are you not letting them make a choice to take them?

 

There are people that collect toenail clippings and others that collect belly button lint. I will also remove those if I find them in a cache. Those people will just have to find their toenail clippings, belly button lint, and business cards elsewhere, as far as I'm concerned.

[+The Jester]

Do you never make a judgement call and dispose of things from a cache that you decide is not worthwhile swag? You don't remove the random stick or stone or soggy expired coupon? You just leave what you consider junk in there because somebody else might find it worthwhile? You can call me King of Swag if you'd like, but I do not believe that business cards are swag.

But that's just your opinion. By removing them you are forcing that view on others. I know of people who collect business cards, so why are you not letting them make a choice to take them? Not all business cards are soggy/wet/mouldy/etc.. I've seen many that are in the baggie with the logbook and are in great shape (I'm in the Great Pacific NorthWet where WET contents is a way of life), also (for example) my business card will not get soggy no matter how long you leave it in water - it's a magnetic sheet, no paper involved (and no, I don't generally leave them in caches).

Yes, just as it is your opinion that they are swag. I reserve the right to make and hold my own opinions. I do not believe that business cards are swag. Note the words, "I do not believe" (or, more correctly, "I believe that business cards are not swag")

 

Likewise, by not removing them, you too are forcing your view on those that believe that business cards are not welcome in caches.

Why can you not just leave them (if they are in good condition) and ignore them? I'm not into plastic army men and ignore them when I see them in caches. I suppose I could throw them away since they aren't good swag (IMO).

[+JesandTodd]

Why can you not just leave them (if they are in good condition) and ignore them? I'm not into plastic army men and ignore them when I see them in caches. I suppose I could throw them away since they aren't good swag (IMO).

 

You and I live in the same geo-community. It's rare for me to see business cards in caches that aren't a soggy nasty mess!

[knowschad]

Do you never make a judgement call and dispose of things from a cache that you decide is not worthwhile swag? You don't remove the random stick or stone or soggy expired coupon? You just leave what you consider junk in there because somebody else might find it worthwhile? You can call me King of Swag if you'd like, but I do not believe that business cards are swag.

But that's just your opinion. By removing them you are forcing that view on others. I know of people who collect business cards, so why are you not letting them make a choice to take them? Not all business cards are soggy/wet/mouldy/etc.. I've seen many that are in the baggie with the logbook and are in great shape (I'm in the Great Pacific NorthWet where WET contents is a way of life), also (for example) my business card will not get soggy no matter how long you leave it in water - it's a magnetic sheet, no paper involved (and no, I don't generally leave them in caches).

Yes, just as it is your opinion that they are swag. I reserve the right to make and hold my own opinions. I do not believe that business cards are swag. Note the words, "I do not believe" (or, more correctly, "I believe that business cards are not swag")

 

Likewise, by not removing them, you too are forcing your view on those that believe that business cards are not welcome in caches.

Why can you not just leave them (if they are in good condition) and ignore them? I'm not into plastic army men and ignore them when I see them in caches. I suppose I could throw them away since they aren't good swag (IMO).

 

I generally do (if they are in good condition), but not because I believe they are swag. They are self-promotional advertising junk. However, I confess that I generally don't bother doing the right thing by removing them, sometimes even when they are a soggy, moldy mess. I'm not perfect.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I know of people who collect business cards, so why are you not letting them make a choice to take them? Not all business cards are soggy/wet/mouldy/etc..

 

You know people who like to collect business cards??? I don't know anybody like that. Swag is supposed to be stuff for trading. Let's face it, when people put their business cards in a cache, are they thinking 'I bet some kid would really like this.' Or were they thinking 'hey, this would be a great way to advertise my business'?

 

Please be honest, on the occasions you have put your own business card in a cache, what has been your reason for doing so?

 

Most business cards I have found are not in nice shape. They deteriorate and start to make a mess in the cache.

Edited May 30, 2012 by The_Incredibles_