iphone GPS useless without service or wireless?

[+SniperZombies]

I have an iphone 4 but I don't have phone service. I use a portable wireless hotspot that I carry in my purse, however I've come to find it doesn't work in the woods too well. IS my gps on my phone useless or is there a way to access it and use it like a normal hand held GPS?

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Is the problem that it's not locking onto GPS?

[+user13371]

... it doesn't work in the woods too well...

More specific, please. Does it work at all?

 

Try Google Maps (instead of GC or other apps) as a baseline test. Are you getting "Cannot determine location" error messages? Or does it just take longer than normal to find your location? Or is the fix just less accurate than it should be?

 

You mention this is a problem when you're in the woods -- does it work any better/differently when you're in "civilization?"

 

It's hard for me to test and duplicate your situation because I do have service on my phone. But I just put it into "Airplane" mode and turned on WiFi -- and it found my location reasonably well. But that's in my house. Ill try again on my way to work this morning to see how it behaves outside of WiFi range.

[+user13371]

Ah... I can confirm this now -- a similar result at least. Without cellular service and away from a WiFi access point of fixed/known location, I can't get a fix. Google Maps either reports "Cannot determine location" or just spins endlessly.

 

Which is strange, since I'm sure I had done this in the past with better results.

[+Lieblweb]

I've tried turning off cell signal to try and only use the GPS portion (caches were downloaded into the phone).

 

The phone was so darn slow to respond to anything and the GPS took forever to update. In most cases, it would lock up completely.

 

(I have no patience)

 

Stick with a handheld ...

[+JesandTodd]

And I turn off my 4g and wifi when I cache and my gps works fine. The GPS still works, and the GC app behaves better, which is the main reason I do this (and it decreases battery bleeding)

[+user13371]

... and I turn off my 4g and wifi when I cache and my gps works fine...

I don't think this is what the SpiderZombies is asking about. When you "turn off your 4g (I think you mean 3g) and WiFi" you're still leaving Edge data reception ON -- and getting a lot of help on location from cellular towers.

 

Try this: Turn on Airplane mode, and then turn on WiFi -- that's as close as you're going to get to an iPhone without cellular data service. Let me know who well it works when you're not within range of a WiFi hotspot.

[+JesandTodd]

No, I meant 4g. 4g came with the last iOS update...

 

I turn off wifi, 4g, and cellular. There's no edge network either. It's all blank.

But airplane mode? Nah, it doesn't work there. Most definitely not!

So I must be getting something from somewhere.

[+SniperZombies]

I guess I was just thinking if a gps can access triangulation without wireless or cellphone service then the phone should be able to. Different technology?

[+ngrrfan]

I guess I was just thinking if a gps can access triangulation without wireless or cellphone service then the phone should be able to. Different technology?

Definitely!

 

A GPSr uses multiple satellites.

[Wintertime]

A GPSr uses multiple satellites.

The GPS receiver in a smartphone doesn't?

 

(I'm talking about the smartphones--such as Sniper's iPhone 4--that have true GPS, not cell-tower-based A-GPS.)

[+Team Pixos]

Do you save the caches to use offline?

[+user13371]

No, I meant 4g. 4g came with the last iOS update...

Ah, you must have a 4s, I only have a 4. I didn't realize they had changed the preference menu but it makes sense from a marketing perspective.

The last iOS update didn't change the phone into an LTE device or make it's HSPA+ any faster -- all they did was change the indicator on screen

 

I turn off wifi, 4g, and cellular. There's no edge network either. It's all blank. But airplane mode? Nah, it doesn't work there. Most definitely not! So I must be getting something from somewhere.[/b]

Yes. Even without data connections you can still place and get phone calls -- so the phone is still able to ping the cell towers. That's inline with the FCC's E-911 requirement. Only way to turn that off is to completely turn off the cellular radio (Airplane Mode), not just disabling the data connections. But that might also be turning off the GPS internally and leaving you to rely on WiFi only for locations.

 

But this isn't really duplicating SpiderZombie's situation. I think the only way to duplicate that would be to leave all of the phone's features ENABLED -- but go to an area with no cellular service at all. For me to test that I'd have to hop on my bicycle and go about 30 miles east of here.

 

This is interesting to me, good timing, because I'm thinking of dumping my iPhone 4 service at the end of June when the contract expires. I might still use it as a pocket computer but I hardly ever use it as a phone now. This thread prodded me into testing something I had taken for granted and now I'm going to have to think a little harder about that.

Edited May 3, 2012 by user13371

[+JesandTodd]

But this isn't really duplicating SpiderZombie's situation. I think the only way to duplicate that would be to leave all of the phone's features ENABLED -- but go to an area with no cellular service at all. For me to test that I'd have to hop on my bicycle and go about 30 miles east of here.

 

okie dokie, 2 weeks ago I went to rattlesnake and had zero service and ran the app off of my PQs. It works like I mentioned...as long as you have updated PQs...

[+SniperZombies]

Thanks for the replies, this is helping me understand. My next question is, even if I download the caches to be used offline, which I don't know how to do anyways, how does that help me find them without the gps?

[+thebruce0]

No, I meant 4g. 4g came with the last iOS update...

4G didn't come with the latest update, but perhaps support for 4G did. 3G is the typical smartphone data network at this point, and 4G is the new-fangled network, still debatable in canada

 

What you mean is you turned off data (whether it says 3G or 4G in the settings). Cell/Edge reception is still active.

 

Feature summary afaik:

* cell reception (cell phone and basic data)

* data network (3G, 4G, LTE, etc)

* wifi

* A-GPS

* GPS

 

We can turn off data and wifi, but turning on airplane mode turns off cell, data, and wifi (though wifi can be turned on again manually), and by extension A-GPS

 

A GPSr uses multiple satellites.

The GPS receiver in a smartphone doesn't?

 

(I'm talking about the smartphones--such as Sniper's iPhone 4--that have true GPS, not cell-tower-based A-GPS.)

 

All GPS-capable iPhones still use A-GPS, but it should be noted that A-GPS is not mutually exclusive to hardware GPS. The 3GS, 4, and 4S use both. As there's no real point to turning off A-GPS, that's not an option in settings - if you have cell reception, A-GPS automatically enhances the hardware GPS reception. If you don't have real GPS, A-GPS effectively 'emulates' GPS by triangulating only via cell towers.

 

 

 

The primary points of this reply:

 

* Yes, the 3GS, 4 and 4S have hardware GPS, receiving signal from multiple satellites. A-GPS assists the speed and accuracy when cell reception and towers are available. Higher end models have better GPS capability.

 

* In practice, I've used my 3GS in a desert with no cell coverage in the slightest, with access only to the open sky. GPS still worked like a charm (and I found the cache )

I can't remember though if I turned on Airplane mode or left cell reception on (so I can't say if the GPS would still work in airplane mode, or if the GPS requires cell capability turned on, even if there is zero reception, which seems rather pointless)

 

*GPS should still work with Airplane mode on in theory, though I do get warnings when trying to use GPS if airplane mode is on - but whether that's specifically in regards to using A-GPS or GPS as a whole, I haven't figured out. However, in airplane mode, GPS may well be slower and/or less accurate since A-GPS (requiring cell reception) will not be functioning.

Edited May 3, 2012 by thebruce0

[+thebruce0]

Ok just a quick fiddle around just now, and I do believe airplane mode disallows apps from accessing the GPS data. One of my apps still had the icon active, though it couldn't read any data.

 

So presumably, if you want to use the GPS, you can't be in airplane mode, but the hardware GPS will work without cell reception, only A-GPS will not be active.

Seems kind of dumb to not allow the hardware GPS to work in airplane mode... but perhaps the API ties A-GPS to its GPS features on a higher level. *shrug*

 

Anyone have more technical insight to this?

[+thebruce0]

Followup...

 

http://support.apple...US&locale=en_US

When you enable airplane mode from the Settings screen, an airplane icon () appears in the status bar at the top of the screen and the following wireless connections and services are turned off:

• Cellular (voice and data)
• Wi-Fi
• Bluetooth
• GPS
• Location services

If allowed by the aircraft operator and applicable laws and regulations, you can re-enable Wi-Fi and Bluetooth while in airplane mode

 

And a comment in the apple forums (in context of the iPhone 3G, very old):

Airplane Mode shuts down all radios in the iPhone. While it's true that the GPS radio is a receiver only, it's also true that there is not much utility to the GPS without a data connection to download the maps on which your location is plotted. Furthermore, Location Services uses assisted GPS (aGPS), which uses data from assistance server on the cellular network to speed up localization and compensate if too few satellites are in view.

 

Granted, the GPS receiver does function without the assistance part, and there are apps that store your path, readout your lat/long/alt, etc.

 

So, I suspect part of the rationale is that even though the GPS radio is a receiver and does not transmit, it's functionality is pretty crippled without a data connection, so it might as well be shut off.

(this is for the 3G, which has very poor GPS reception compared to the 4S, but the airplane mode functionality remains the same nonetheless)

Edited May 3, 2012 by thebruce0

[+SniperZombies]

So in a short answer, no I can't use the gps without data or wireless and hope to find my way through the wilderness?

[+thebruce0]

Well no, you can use GPS without data or wireless as long as airplane mode is not enabled, but it could be risky in the deep wilderness if you're constantly covered by forest canopy, or using something less than a 4S , especially if you haven't got offline maps available

 

In that context I'd recommend having a GPSr, even if only for backup

Edited May 3, 2012 by thebruce0

[+SniperZombies]

Well no, you can use GPS without data or wireless as long as airplane mode is not enabled, but it could be risky in the deep wilderness if you're constantly covered by forest canopy, or using something less than a 4S , especially if you haven't got offline maps available

 

In that context I'd recommend having a GPSr, even if only for backup

 

I tried, it just tells me to enable wireless and that I'm not subscribed to a data plan. My phone was never activated on a network.

[+thebruce0]

I tried, it just tells me to enable wireless and that I'm not subscribed to a data plan. My phone was never activated on a network.

 

In that case I believe your GPS should still work if you don't have the phone in airplane mode, though I don't know of A-GPS is still in use (whether the phone still at least has locative access to cell towers even without a service provider).

 

So your phone has no provider - is the GPS working, or no?

Edited May 7, 2012 by thebruce0