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DID YOU GET PERMISSION


THE WILD BUNCH

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IS THERE ANY WAY TO SHOW ON THE CACHE PAGE IF PERMISSION WAS RECIEVED AND WHO GRANTED IT. HAVE HAD TWO INSTANCES WHERE WE HAVE DRIVEN TO A CACHE ONLY TO FIND THAT THEY WERE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. THE FIRST CACHE HAD NO TRESPASSING SIGNS ON THE FENCE. THE SECOND CACHE WAS PLACED ON TRIBAL LANDS. COME TO FIND OUT YOU CAN'T WALK AROUND LOOKING FOR CACHES ON TRIBAL LANDS UNLESS YOU ARE A TRIBAL MEMBER OR HAVE A TRESPASSING PERMIT. FORTUNETLY THE INDIVDUAL WHO COUGHT US WAS KIND ENOUGHT TO INFORM US OF THIS LITTLE DETAIL AND DID NOT TURN US IN.

 

 

THANKS THE WILD BUNCH

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WHY ARE YOU YELLING? WE CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE!

 

Fact is, I'm NOT going to go around trying to find someone official to ask permission from everytime I place a cache. I'd rather depend on common sense. AND if I hunt one that appears to be in a bad placement... I just pass it by.

 

Please, just E-Mail the cache owner and recommend he move his cache. Let's keep it simple.

 

4497_300.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by EraSeek:

WHY ARE YOU YELLING? WE CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE!

 

Fact is, I'm NOT going to go around trying to find someone official to ask permission from everytime I place a cache. I'd rather depend on common sense. AND if I hunt one that appears to be in a bad placement... I just pass it by.

 

Please, just E-Mail the cache owner and recommend he move his cache. Let's keep it simple.

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/4497_300.jpg


 

Sorry you feel that way. IMHO gaining permission is not only required by Geocaching.com policy, it is using the common sense you talk about. Just don't understand why gaining permission is such a big deal.

 

ENJOY THE OUTDOORS

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quote:
WHY ARE YOU YELLING? WE CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE!

 

Fact is, I'm NOT going to go around trying to find someone official to ask permission from everytime I place a cache. I'd rather depend on common sense. AND if I hunt one that appears to be in a bad placement... I just pass it by.

 

Please, just E-Mail the cache owner and recommend he move his cache. Let's keep it simple.


 

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YELLING! OUR CAP LOCK BUTTON IS STUCK OR MAYBE WE JUST LIKE CAPS....

 

OUR QUESTION IS A SIMPLE ONE..THE FACT IS, WE WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT CACHES THAT PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO DO RIGHT.

AND WE THOUGHT THIS WAS THE CORRECT FORUM TO ASK THIS QUESTION IN. IF SOMEONE CAN ACTUALLY LET US KNOW IF THIS CAN ALREADY BE DONE, OR IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE ADDED TO THE CACHE PAGE.... WE WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL... AND REMEMBER TO BE VERYYYY VERYYY QUIET AS WE ARE HUNTING FOR HAPPY MEAL TOYS.

 

THANKS THE WILD BUNCH

 

P.S. WE TYPED THIS VERY QUIETLY AS NOT TO APPEAR TO BE YELLING.

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quote:
Originally posted by BrownMule:

Just don't understand why gaining permission is such a big deal.

 

_ENJOY THE OUTDOORS_


 

You know, neither do I! I've placed over 30 caches and have never had a problem. I don't think there is a need to get permission for everything I do in life.Yes, there are some caches where getting permission is a must! but assuming that EVERY cache requires it sounds awfully PC to me.

 

~on the run from the cache-police.

 

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And is considered rude because it's more difficult for many people to read. You're more likely to get an answer if you turn caps lock off. If it's truely stuck, new keyboards are cheap. They can also be cleaned by placing in a dishwasher then letting dry for a couple of days.

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quote:
Originally posted by EraSeek:

I don't think there is a need to get permission for everything I do in life.


 

I fully agree with the above statement unless what you do or where you go belongs to someone else. If you are positive that it is ok to hide a Cache somewhere without actual permission that is one thing. When I hunt a cache I assume based on the permission requirement of this site that permission was granted and I don't need to worry about being arrested or embarrassed by authorities or an angry property owner when I go Geocaching. I do respect your right to your opinion but just cannot share your view. icon_confused.gif

 

ENJOY THE OUTDOORS

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Don't be mad. I would NEVER place a cache where it would cause someone to be arrested, or accosted by a private property owner. That being said it is still up to the cache hunter to make his own decisions. If it is obviously on private property, and the cache page does not say permission was granted...don't do it! I myself, have passed by a cache that fits this scenario.

 

Also, that being said, anytime you hunt a cache EXPECT to be questioned. It does look odd, you know. And my advise is to always be truthfull with your answer.

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quote:
Originally posted by EraSeek:

Don't be mad. I would NEVER place a cache where it would cause someone to be arrested, or accosted by a private property owner. That being said it is still up to the cache hunter to make his own decisions. If it is obviously on private property, and the cache page does not say permission was granted...don't do it! I myself, have passed by a cache that fits this scenario.

 

Also, that being said, anytime you hunt a cache EXPECT to be questioned. It does look odd, you know. And my advise is to always be truthfull with your answer.


 

I'm not mad just puzzled. What you are saying is that if one doesn't state in their cache page that they have followed the rules by obtaining permission then assume that they didn't get permission. Does this also apply to the other Geocaching rules that I agreed to in order to use this site or is this the only rule this applies to? Seriously I do understand that it is much easier to just find a good place and hide it. I do understand what you are saying, I just feel that for the good of the game getting permission could save somebody from having a bad experience.

 

ENJOY THE OUTDOORS

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"Were man but constant he were perfect"

Yes. Assume that permission has not been granted, if not so stated by the cache hider. Would I Hunt the cache? Yes, if I felt it were somewhere where I would feel good about hiding a cache. But, if it is on the other side of a busted down barb wire fence, no I would not. In what case would I hunt a cache on private land. Well I hunted one where it was on unused prairie land between a public trail and a river pullout used by rafters. Obviously not a problem. No sign, no fence, obvious public use. I am sorry if I appear to be selective on rules. I believe in following rules and laws. But, rules makes sense only in situations where they make sense. I'm for following the intent of the law, and that means useing rational descision making about where they are intended. "The law was made for man, not man for the law".

 

One of my pet peeves is the idea of "No tolerance rules". Why? Because they are brainless. We can follow them without having to use or brains, and will face no consequences regardless of the results of this strict adherence.

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:

quote:
Originally posted by EraSeek:

WHY ARE YOU YELLING? WE CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE!


 

Why do you feel the need to say that?

 

Does it make you feel special inside?

 

Some people type in all-caps. Deal with it.


 

NO. ACTUALLY I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST KINDA FUNNY! SORRY.

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Pronunciation Key (Snazz-i-sizm)

n.

The act of criticizing, especially adversely.

A critical comment or judgment.

 

The practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating

A critical article or essay; a critique.

 

n 1: disapproval expressed by pointing out faults or shortcomings;

The act of criticising; a critical judgment passed or expressed; a critical observation

 

Eraseek was only doing what you would have pointed out. Are you mad 'cause he beat you to it?

 

Preparation, the first law to survival.

lodging3.jpggeol1.jpg

Mokita!

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quote:
Originally posted by BrownMule:

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/4497_300.jpg


 

Sorry you feel that way. IMHO gaining permission is not only required by Geocaching.com policy, it is using the common sense you talk about. Just don't understand why gaining permission is such a big deal.

 

_ENJOY THE OUTDOORS_

 

Policy? Requirement? Where are you reading that?

 

In relevant part:

"Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there! If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules."

 

Nowhere in that do I see the word "required"

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quote:
Originally posted by THE WILD BUNCH:

THE SECOND CACHE WAS PLACED ON TRIBAL LANDS. COME TO FIND OUT YOU CAN'T WALK AROUND LOOKING FOR CACHES ON TRIBAL LANDS UNLESS YOU ARE A TRIBAL MEMBER OR HAVE A TRESPASSING PERMIT.

 

 

THANKS THE WILD BUNCH


You're kiddng, right? Look around, this is all tribal land, it hasn't stopped anyone yet.

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

 

Policy? Requirement? Where are you reading that?

 

In relevant part:

"Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there! If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules."

 

Nowhere in that do I see the word "required"


 

Here it is dirctly from the Geocaching Page.

 

"Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelinesl

 

Before posting a cache, first review the following guidelines and rules. This is a constantly changing and evolving sport, so the rules may change. Refer back before posting to make sure no new rules are added.

 

Off-limit (Physical) Caches

 

We're assuming that you asked permission to post your cache. However, if we see any listing description mentioning ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing will be automatically archived."

 

If the Geocaching Requirements/ Guidelines assume you have asked for permission then I should be able to assume the same.

I know that everyone does not ask for permission. All I am trying to say is that it would be better if everyone did or at least put a check box on the cache page to say right out if permission was gained or not. That would put the monkey on the correct back and a decision to hunt could be made at home before traveling miles to look at an area.

 

ENJOY THE OUTDOORS

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Nowhere in that do I see the word "required"


 

"you need to contact the managing agency"

 

need

n.

  • A condition or situation in which something is required or wanted: crops in need of water; a need for affection.

  • Something required or wanted; a requisite: “Those of us who led the charge for these women's issues... shared a common vision in the needs of women” (Olympia Snowe).

  • Necessity; obligation: There is no need for you to go.

  • A condition of poverty or misfortune: The family is in dire need.
v.

To have need of; require:

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:

Nowhere in that do I see the word "required"


 

click on the "hide and seek" tab, and look at the upper right{tan area}.

it says:

quote:
Hide a cache

To hide a new geocache in your area...

 

Please make sure to obtain permission from the landowner or land manager prior to placing your geocache.


then theres a link to the form for new caches.

 

whack.gif

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If you find one that seems to have bad placement it would be best to contact the owner about it and/or suggest it be archived. It's tenuous times we live in for geocaching. If you can forstall an FBI stake out... it'd do us all a lot of good icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by EraSeek:

WHY ARE YOU YELLING? WE CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE!

 

Fact is, I'm NOT going to go around trying to find someone official to ask permission from everytime I place a cache. I'd rather depend on common sense. AND if I hunt one that appears to be in a bad placement... I just pass it by.

 

Please, just E-Mail the cache owner and recommend he move his cache. Let's keep it simple.

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/4497_300.jpg


 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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I'm always surprised to see the responses when this topic comes up. With all the enhancements that have gone into this website, why isn't there a question like this on the submit cache form?

 

Q. Did you receive permission to place this cache?

1. No Answer Selected (default setting)

2. Yes, I'm the property owner.

3. Yes, I got permission from the land manager.

4. No.

 

This simple question (and the ability to sort caches results by the responses) would be useful to some of the cachers on this forum. I know there are cachers out there who would only choose to search for #2 and #3 caches, and they should have that opportunity.

 

Can anyone make an argument that this wouldn't be "a good thing?" "I wouldn't use it" isn't a valid argument - there are plenty of features on this site that only cater to a certain subset of geocachers.

 

Why hasn't this feature been added to geocaching.com? Jeremy??

 

--

Dan Foster

TopoGrafix: GPS Software, Waypoints, and Maps

http://www.topografix.com/

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I want a button that indicates whether a Garmin or a Magellan GPSr was used in the hiding of a cache.

 

That way, if it was a Garmin, I can expand my search radius.

 

xyxthumbs.gif

 

If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

lodging3.jpggeol1.jpg

Mokita!

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quote:
Can anyone make an argument that this wouldn't be "a good thing?" "I wouldn't use it" isn't a valid argument - there are plenty of features on this site that only cater to a certain subset of geocachers.

 

Why hasn't this feature been added to geocaching.com? Jeremy??


 

Because it would force this web site to reject all caches that didn't get permission, about 80% of them, effectively destroying geocaching as we know it.

 

Alan

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Even if someone got permission it doesn't neccesarily say anything about the cache. It could still be ill-conceived. "I got permission to put this cache in my neighbor's doberman pit." Doesn't make its placement a good idea.

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by TopoGrafix:

With all the enhancements that have gone into this website, why isn't there a question like this on the submit cache form?

...Why hasn't this feature been added to geocaching.com? Jeremy??


if you had to fill out a "did you get express permission and from whom did you receive it" It would DQ a LOT of caches. because what would be permission?

having written consent? would verbal oks be void?

what about the huge glut of caches that are placed in areas that the managers will: A. "get back to you", B. "study it", C. "have to talk it over with XXX" and are then not heard from again?

 

Dont get me wrong you should when placing a cache make the effort contact the management. If they wont give a straight answer, but dont say no is that permission? icon_rolleyes.gif

 

whack.gif

 

37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

quote:

Why hasn't this feature been added to geocaching.com? Jeremy??


 

Because it would force this web site to reject all caches that didn't get permission, about 80% of them, effectively destroying geocaching as we know it.

 

Alan


 

I don't understand your response. What (or who) would force the website to do reject caches? I proposed adding a question to a form. Questions can't force people to do things. Forms can't force people to do things. You wouldn't even have to answer the question when submitting a cache - just leave the default response selected.

 

I'm not proposing that you submit proof of permission to back up your answer. It's a question, just like "How difficult, on scale of 1 to 5, is this cache?" is a question.

 

I think the issue that some people have with this question is that they feel that some answers are "worse" than others. That's not the case. This is a question about fact, and the only "worse" answer is an untruthful one.

 

We all have opinions about the permission issue with geocaching, based largely on our life experiences and our personal opinions about freedom, respect, and government. As long as there are two or more geocachers out there, it's unlikely that a consensus will be reached on this issue. So it's up to each of us to reach our own personal decisions on the caches we'll place, and the caches we'll seek.

 

Once we've made our personal decisions, we should be able to search geocaching.com for caches that meet our criteria.

 

--

Dan Foster

TopoGrafix: GPS Software, Waypoints, and Maps

http://www.topografix.com/

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quote:
Originally posted by TopoGrafix:

So it's up to each of us to reach our own _personal_ decisions on the caches we'll place, and the caches we'll seek.


 

Can my decision be to NOT ask nor answer a question that i Personally feel will cause problems? icon_razz.gif

 

whack.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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Topografix has hit the nail on the head. Some of us cannot afford to be arrested or detained for being on private property or for Geocaching without permission on public lands based on the public nature or our employment. I for one would be terminated on the spot even if I was not convicted. All I am asking is for a simple check box on the cache form to let me and others know if permission was granted. I am not saying to tie this into a condition for approval of the cache. This may seriously limit the caches I choose to hunt but so be it. I am greatly concerned about caching in areas where permission to hide was not obtained. I don't expect everyone to be concerned but I expect there are others that are. Frankly I am puzzled why there would be a problem with having a permission confirmation on the cache page.

 

ENJOY THE OUTDOORS

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Like the caching with dogs thread, I can't see troubling the web masters for an unnecessary feature.

The number of caches I've searched for where permission was asked can probably be counted on one hand.

Most caches are hidden on public access land.

 

If you need to satisfy your own paranoia, you need to take steps to find out if the hider asked for permission.

 

lodging3.jpggeol1.jpg

If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

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I would rather not have another question to answer whether it be about dogs or permission. I think that can be included on the cache description page. As far as I know dogs are permitted at the caches I have listed, at least if they are on a leash. If dogs are not permitted and I know about it, I will post it. I'm not going to do extra research however to find out if they are not permitted or if they can run around without a leash, the pet owner needs to take some responsibility too and bring a leash. Likewise, the hider can post on the cache page if they obtained permission. Personally, I would not hide a cache on private land, although I have seen some that are. In those cases I think it should be stated in the cache description.

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quote:
Originally posted by TopoGrafix:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

quote:

Why hasn't this feature been added to geocaching.com? Jeremy??


 

Because it would force this web site to reject all caches that didn't get permission, about 80% of them, effectively destroying geocaching as we know it.

 

Alan


 

I don't understand your response. What (or who) would force the website to do reject caches? ...Dan Foster

TopoGrafix: GPS Software, Waypoints, and Maps

http://www.topografix.com/

 

Any submitted cache for aapproval that indicated "no permission was granted" would have to be disapproved by the website. Otherwise Groudspeak, Inc. would be liable for encouraging illegal activity not a position I would want to be in if I was Jeremy.

 

Of course there is nothing stopping anyone from adding a note to their cache page that their hide location has received permission from the land manager or caches for that park are approved in general, etc.. Then those who wish to only seek "permitted" caches could follow their conscience and this web page could stay above the "fray".

 

Alan

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Bringing up an old subject, because I think it's worth it. A cache we visited while on vacation has been recently archieved because it is illegal to place caches there. No names mentioned ok? Some 60 something cachers (that I know of) went to an illegal cache. Now, is obtaining permission & following The Geocaching Guildlines important? Are rules meant to be broken? Does everyone have or use Common Sense? Do we all ***/u/me? Apparently, I fit in with the above, as I went to the illegal cache. I didn't know they were not allowed that NP. I think, (dangerous thing) some are.

I am in no way accusing anyone of anything. So, please think about it & stay on the subject.

icon_smile.gif Answers to my own questions, in my opinion only.

Yes, I think obtaining permission & following the Geocaching Guildlines are important. Why? Because commom courtesy (if you have it) & rules where not meant to be broken. They were set for a reason or to be changed. For whatever reasons. Commen Sense>>>>Follow the Rules<<<<<....And as the old story goes......Assume. Well break that one down.

Jeremy has to make some kind of guildlines, or our geocaching game would not survive. And please, don't ask me why. Just think about it.

rocker51 icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by ron50eli:

Bringing up an old subject, because I think it's worth it. A cache we visited while on vacation has been recently archieved because it is illegal to place caches there. No names mentioned ok? Some 60 something cachers (that I know of) went to an illegal cache. Now, is obtaining permission & following The Geocaching Guildlines important? Are rules meant to be broken? Does everyone have or use Common Sense? Do we all ***/u/me? Apparently, I fit in with the above, as I went to the illegal cache. I didn't know they were not allowed that NP. I think, (dangerous thing) some are.

I am in no way accusing anyone of anything. So, please think about it & stay on the subject.

icon_smile.gif Answers to my own questions, in my opinion only.

Yes, I think obtaining permission & following the Geocaching Guildlines are important. Why? Because commom courtesy (if you have it) & rules where not meant to be broken. They were set for a reason or to be changed. For whatever reasons. Commen Sense>>>>Follow the Rules<<<<<....And as the old story goes......Assume. Well break that one down.

Jeremy has to make some kind of guildlines, or our geocaching game would not survive. And please, don't ask me why. Just think about it.

rocker51 icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif


If, by "NP" you mean "National Park", then no, there are NO National Parks where caches are permitted, check the guidelines for placing a cache.

I think There are 2 major problems with the "permission granted" checkmark idea. Alan mentioned the 1st one. I think Groundspeak would be forced to reject any caches that admit to not having permission to place, from a liability standpoint. Which leads to problem 2. People will just check "YES", even if thats not true. The same people that argue "the parks and forests belong to all of us" and "If it's not illegal, then its legal" (where I fall, BTW) could argue that since offical permission is not needed, they are justified in clicking the yes box. This could cause even more trouble for someone like BrownMule, who claims the mere act of walking on public land without permission can cost him his job.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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I'm not for the check box either. Just follow the guildlines. Get permission. I read that there was an ongoing conflict about hiding caches in the NP's. I haven't read the most resent update on the decision. Or maybe I'm thinking of something else. When I said no names mentioned I meant the cache name. Not the NPS. Sorry for the confusion.

But it's funny that this cache & another one in the same area have been there for over a year, & just got achieved. It's a beautiful place to visit. I'm sure the wear of foliage brought some attention. But had it not been for this cache, like so many others, I probably would had never known about it.

My main topic here though is get permission. JMO.

icon_smile.gifrocker51

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quote:
Originally posted by ron50eli:

My main topic here though is get permission.


 

Amazingly, there are several very vocal posters to these forums who don't seem to think you need to get permission to place a geocache.

 

I'd name names, but they are some of my closest friends and I wouldn't want to hurt those relationships.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:

Amazingly, there are several very vocal posters to these forums who don't seem to think you need to get permission to place a geocache.

 

I'd name names, but they are some of my closest friends and I wouldn't want to hurt those relationships.


I bet there are quite a few who also don't think you need to get written permission to have a picnic, or play catch with your son, feed the ducks, walk through the woods, or ride a bike.

Plenty of parks DO have rules that say you can't ride a bike, hike off trail, or feed the ducks. There is a park near me that requires a use permit for certain fields, even if thats to spread out a blanket, or play a game of catch.

However, if it's not illegal, and it's not against the rules, then, in the US at least, it is OK to do it. Up to you if you choose to apply that to geocaching.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:

Amazingly, there are several very vocal posters to these forums who don't seem to think you need to get permission to place a geocache.

 

I'd name names, but they are some of my closest friends and I wouldn't want to hurt those relationships.


 

We've never met, you can mention my name if you like. icon_wink.gif

 

Do I really need to do the whole “two kinds of people thing” again? OK, fine. There are two kinds of people in the world. One that believes they can do nothing without prior permission, and the other that believes they can do anything not specifically prohibited by public rule, direct regulation, or moral obligation. If there’s no publicly known specific rule that says I cannot find/hide a geocache on a tract of public property, then by default, as a free American, I may do so. Some “officials" may find that sort of thinking dangerous. They can go piss up a rope. You make it hard for me to find/hide caches and I’ll find a way in through the back door.

 

EDIT: Typo

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quote:
Topografix has hit the nail on the head. Some of us cannot afford to be arrested or detained for being on private property or for Geocaching without permission on public lands based on the public nature or our employment. I for one would be terminated on the spot even if I was not convicted. All I am asking is for a simple check box on the cache form to let me and others know if permission was granted. I am not saying to tie this into a condition for approval of the cache. This may seriously limit the caches I choose to hunt but so be it. I am greatly concerned about caching in areas where permission to hide was not obtained. I don't expect everyone to be concerned but I expect there are others that are. Frankly I am puzzled why there would be a problem with having a permission confirmation on the cache page.

 

And I agree 100% with both of you. This is a question I have asked before and gotten no useful reply. If I get arrested/detained while searching for somebody's cache, I assume that the hider had permission and I'm coming after him/her for the permissions to prove my innocence. If they can't supply it and I sustain damages as a result (and assuming there aren't any postings/fences/etc. which should have warned me off), I'm coming after them again - with a lawyer. As geocachers, we have responsibilities and that goes for both hiders and seekers (and probably extends to the "official" web site as well since it's their rule. Unfortunately, I see no effort to proactively enforce it and have a feeling a judge/jury might feel the same way)

 

Good Hunting! -- Graveseeker

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quote:
The same people that argue "the parks and forests belong to all of us" and "If it's not illegal, then its legal" (where I fall, BTW) could argue that since offical permission is not needed, they are justified in clicking the yes box.

 

I have no proble with that except for two things. First, I don't see why it has to simply be a 'yes' box. Is there a reason why there couldn't be a checkbox indicating that permission was not needed? Then it becomes the seeker's responsibility to determine the safety of proceeding (unless, of course, permission WAS required).

 

Second, while the statement "If it's not illegal, it's legal" is a statement of fact, determining which is true is prerequisite and ignorance can land you in jail. So far, I have heard no valid argument not to verify that permission was requested and granted both to place and to seek a geocache. There is precious little land that is not owned/controlled by someone and on which it is legal to go without appropriate permission. At the same time, cooperating land owners/managers should have liability waivers and we, as geocachers, should agree to honor those waivers via legal hold harmless agreements.

 

Good Hunting! -- Graveseeker

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Glad I'm not playing in TX.

 

Just hope the first non permitted cache you just can't resist searching for is off the side of a cliff, just wouldn't get the joy of that lawsuit.

 

If you wouldn't be there when you wern't geocaching, don't be there just because you are.

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quote:
Glad I'm not playing in TX.

 

I don't think the state is relevant. What is relevant is your liability for a.) being someplace you're not supposed to be or b.) providing false or misleading information which puts someone in that position.

 

 

quote:
Just hope the first non permitted cache you just can't resist searching for is off the side of a cliff, just wouldn't get the joy of that lawsuit.

 

I don't know of anything illegal about putting caches on cliff faces (presuming that it is legal to do so from a permission point of view.) Dangerous is something quite different. I won't be rapelling down any cliff faces for caches.

 

 

quote:
If you wouldn't be there when you wern't geocaching, don't be there just because you are.

 

That is excellent advice and I think I covered that in my post. It's those places that look OK but turn out not to be that concern me. Along the same lines, I'm no seasoned veteran but those caches I have found to date were back in the woods off of trails in areas where I would "not normally be".

 

Good Hunting! -- Graveseeker

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I have no proble with that except for two things. First, I don't see why it has to simply be a 'yes' box. Is there a reason why there couldn't be a checkbox indicating that permission was not needed? Then it becomes the seeker's responsibility to determine the safety of proceeding (unless, of course, permission WAS required).


 

There will never be a check box for this for the reasons I gave previously - basically the web page owners don't want to be sued. They require "permission" and make the assumption that you are getting permission so if there's a problem, they can claim the hider was responsible and they have no way of checking that permission was not granted. If check boxes were added, like was said, either everyone will say yes and/or the web page will have to reject 80% or more of the caches submitted destroying geocaching. The number might be closer to 98%!

 

If you want to only seek "approved" caches, email the hiders of 10-20 of the caches that interest you on a weekly basis and ask them if they received permission. Then visit only the 1 or 2 that have received permisssion. You might find that many Sundays go by where zero caches have been "approved". So then you can take the family to church instead.

 

Alan

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quote:
There will never be a check box for this for the reasons I gave previously - basically the web page owners don't want to be sued.

 

And I don't blame them. Unfortunately, failing to provide some basic method to enforce their own rule does nothing to protect them - it actually presents a strong case of negligence should a problem arise.

 

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If you want to only seek "approved" caches,

 

What I want is completely irrelevant. What's important is the legal safety of our hobby and the financial security of those who operate the web site. I pray that legal guidance has been sought and is being followed.

 

Good Hunting! -- Graveseeker

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