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Challenges Counting as Finds


ATXTracker
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Had a look at your stats recently? the stats bar at the top and also in your totals has the challenge count separate. ie it says I have 215 caches and 1 challenge.

 

Total Found/Completed* 216

Traditional Cache 198

Multi-cache 5

Event Cache 2

Unknown Cache 10

Geocaching Challenges 1

 

Is this a step forward for the ones complaining about them being in your total count?

 

Also I noticed as I just had my 200th find recently that the Challenge did not count in relation to my 200th Milestone. (yes I had completed the challenge before it so I had watched it.)

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It is kind of a moot point since GS responded to the whining and removed the challenge finds from the counts yesterday (yes, dfx, they were counted), however it still remains indisputable that the definition of "geocache" remains subjective and controlled by whatever site you choose to use.

 

No they weren't. If you had looked closely, the combined count used to say "caches found / challenges completed". The count you saw was just the sum of the both. So completing a challenge never was a "find".

 

And no, the site doesn't get to define what a geocache is. It just gets to define what they want to count.

Edited by dfx
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It is kind of a moot point since GS responded to the whining and removed the challenge finds from the counts yesterday (yes, dfx, they were counted), however it still remains indisputable that the definition of "geocache" remains subjective and controlled by whatever site you choose to use.

 

No they weren't. If you had looked closely, the combined count used to say "caches found / challenges completed". The count you saw was just the sum of the both. So completing a challenge never was a "find".

 

And no, the site doesn't get to define what a geocache is. It just gets to define what they want to count.

 

That's odd?? You would think that GS would have known they weren't counting them and saved some time. In Twitter, about 14 hours ago as of this writing, they announced they were separating them out and the one I did have showed in my total until after they made the change.

 

Wish they moved this quickly on things that were not already done.

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people can define the word "cache" a thousand times. I'm not 100% sure why it matters. Are the caching gods going to send people to cache hell for logging falsecaches? Geocacheing is a completely fabricated game. The terms and ideas associated with it are decided by man. Its not a rule of law. The english language is full of words that don't mean what they break down to in a strict sense.

Perhaps people could continue to avoid caches they don't like. It doesn't lesson your experience when someone else logs a cache you wouldn't log.

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That's odd?? You would think that GS would have known they weren't counting them and saved some time. In Twitter, about 14 hours ago as of this writing, they announced they were separating them out and the one I did have showed in my total until after they made the change.

 

Nothing odd about that. Well, I guess it appears odd if you never bothered to look at what's actually there. The total wasn't the find count total, it was total of "found + completed", and that's exactly what it said.

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That's odd?? You would think that GS would have known they weren't counting them and saved some time. In Twitter, about 14 hours ago as of this writing, they announced they were separating them out and the one I did have showed in my total until after they made the change.

 

Nothing odd about that. Well, I guess it appears odd if you never bothered to look at what's actually there. The total wasn't the find count total, it was total of "found + completed", and that's exactly what it said.

 

Had you actually paid attention prior to the ANNOUNCEZD change, the were in the total. After the change in the box you refer to they separated them out.

 

Spin it however you want, it doesn't matter at this point as they changed it to not count. d+n.s is right, people just need to move on if a particular geocache is not to their liking.

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I see someone has started a feedback forum topic to get the challenges removed from the totals on the profile tab, as well. Personally, I think the changes made yesterday were a good compromise. Apparently, there are others that will be satisfied with nothing but total victory, i.e. challenge completed counts are excluded everywhere. All other types of finds have always been included with the totals on the profile page, with the exception of benchmarks. I believe that benchmarks were not included because they were installed by an agency of the U.S. Government with no intention for them to be "found" by us. The information on benchmarks are datasheets generated by the government, not a fellow cacher. Every other type of cache (including challenges) were/are designed by members of our community for us to find/visit/attend. I think that is a distinction that is being overlooked. Challenges should not be excluded from the overall total.

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Do you consider micro caches then? You have a strange philosophy. I would think only large container with items inside are "real" caches to you. Interesting.

I have yet to find a micro that could not contain a log. If I did then I would not claim a find because a container has to contain something to be called a cache by the definition of the word.

 

The more I hear this tired old argument, the more I warm up to the term, "JEEK". Let's here somebody say "If I did then I would not claim a find because a container has to contain something to be called a JEEK by the definition of the word."

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And no, the site doesn't get to define what a geocache is. It just gets to define what they want to count.

 

Were that true, this thread would not even exist.

 

Why? It's exactly what this thread is about. It's not about whether challenges are caches or not. It's about whether the site should count challenges like caches or not. Important difference there.

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It COULD be an interesting facet of the game but will have to be monitored by someone. If this remains a part of Geocaching.com, I assume that the reviewers will get some new job responsibilities. With no commensurate increase in their compensation.

I wouldn't assume that. Many reviewers, myself included, have made it quite clear that we have no interest in returning to anything like the 2001-2005 era when we were reviewing virtual and locationless caches. The pressures of that failed review system factored into the new design. So, what you are seeing with the flow of challenge submissions should give you a taste of what it was like for a reviewer back when people could submit those types of geocaches. I hope that any non-believers now believe what the reviewers have been saying on this subject for many years. It is no fun spending a disproportionate amount of one's volunteer time trying to explain to an angry virtual or locationless cache submitter why their listing doesn't meet the rules.

In that case you copy and paste an explanation that the listing does not meet the guidelines (That GS can define how they see fit) and they need to re read the guidelines to make it work -- just like earth caches. Its a job and it does not matter if you want to do it if it is part of the job. If you don't like it then you can find a new job, you have that choice.

He needs the extra income. :P Edited by knowschad
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That might be true for highly paid staff but I think there are different rules for volunteers. Anyway I think the the system in place once people understand it, will work better. One of the problems is that most of the questions about challenges are subjective. Even the one that seems simple and straight forward like must be location based is subjective. For example I saw this one posted today - Photograph one of the still existing boundary markers for the District of Columbia. I clearly can't do that anywhere but it doesn't quite fit the go here and do this model.

 

In general I think having many people answer that kind of question and take the majority opinion works much better than having a number of individuals trying to supply subjective guidelines to individual challenges and hope to have a somewhat uniform result.

 

If the approach works maybe it can be used to answer subjective questions about power trails or maybe not.

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That might be true for highly paid staff but I think there are different rules for volunteers. Anyway I think the the system in place once people understand it, will work better. One of the problems is that most of the questions about challenges are subjective. Even the one that seems simple and straight forward like must be location based is subjective. For example I saw this one posted today - Photograph one of the still existing boundary markers for the District of Columbia. I clearly can't do that anywhere but it doesn't quite fit the go here and do this model.

In my opinion, that should not be listed as a 'regular' challenge because it has more than one solution. It is no different than an LC that had a limited number of solutions.

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Make it all even better...357 consecutive days without logging any of the finds I have made during that time. Once I have the ability to make it so that someone would have to manually calculate my finds to figure it out, I'll start logging online again. Plus we can laugh at the people who aren't smart enough to see past false finds and those who are pitiful enough to do so.

 

...and we have forum rule violation.

How so? It isn't pointed at anyone specific and currently no one preforms the mentioned potential action.

 

Oh well in that case the vague collection of people that can't seem to stop complaining about the new feature that doesn't meet their personal aesthetic are acting like something that rhymes with but may not actually be "naysaying over-dramatic goobers", in my opinion. :rolleyes:

You took that out of context. Try again. I have false finds before I stopped logging online so anyone who did not do their research wile attempting to get my count wouldn't be smart enough to do so using the method I stated. And anyone who would get the count right using that method would be quite pitiful in their desperation to know.

So once again, How so? It isn't pointed at anyone specific and currently no one preforms the mentioned potential action.

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Some of the whiniest people I have ever met are geocachers. DAM*, if you don't want to see challenges, turn them off on your map when they get enabled. If you don't want them to count in YOUR total....DON'T SEARCH FOR THEM!!!

 

Geocaching is like doing your taxes. Any of us can cheat if we want and your probably not going to get caught. But your only hurting yourself. I can go thru and log traditional caches all day long if I want. I can log a find in China, BFE Mississippi, India, and South Africa all in the same day if I want and there's nothing any of you can do about it. It's falsely inflating my numbers just like lying about a challenge.

 

Also to the moaners and *itchers, why do you can about other people's number?? I don't care how many finds other folks have. I'm only worried about mine. I know I haven't cheated on any. I don't care if someone does or doesn't believe me. I have nothing to prove. I don't care if XXXXX user has 3000 finds and they are all virtuals or challenges or whatever. WHO CARES?!?!?!? All I'm worried about is finding time to go out this weekend.

 

Some of you people take this GAME waaaaaayyyyy too seriously. It's fun, it's something to do, and it gets me out of the house and gets me some exercise. But again, its a GAME...why do I care if someone else cheats. I'm not getting anything for 1000 finds.

Edited by BCurrey
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What I would love to see is the find count of players completely removed from the cache page logs. If you want to know how many finds a player has, you can browse to their profile.

There you'll get a break down of exactly what the players skills are.

 

I like that idea a lot.

 

FYI: There is a Feedbacl topic for this feature.

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1055463-let-me-hide-my-find-counts

 

Just in case you're interested.

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What I would love to see is the find count of players completely removed from the cache page logs. If you want to know how many finds a player has, you can browse to their profile.

There you'll get a break down of exactly what the players skills are.

 

I like that idea a lot.

 

FYI: There is a Feedbacl topic for this feature.

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1055463-let-me-hide-my-find-counts

 

Just in case you're interested.

 

I do not like the idea at all as looking at the profiles requires logging into the site. The find counts on the logs can be viewed without having to log in - that's much more convenient. Moreover, it is much nicer to get an overview of how many cachers are doing challenges at all by just looking at a local cache that most local cachers have found than having to look at all their profiles.

 

Cezanne

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That's odd?? You would think that GS would have known they weren't counting them and saved some time. In Twitter, about 14 hours ago as of this writing, they announced they were separating them out and the one I did have showed in my total until after they made the change.

 

Nothing odd about that. Well, I guess it appears odd if you never bothered to look at what's actually there. The total wasn't the find count total, it was total of "found + completed", and that's exactly what it said.

 

Had you actually paid attention prior to the ANNOUNCEZD change, the were in the total. After the change in the box you refer to they separated them out.

 

Spin it however you want, it doesn't matter at this point as they changed it to not count. d+n.s is right, people just need to move on if a particular geocache is not to their liking.

 

I thought I was the only one that noticed this. Thanks for confirming my observation.

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Make it all even better...357 consecutive days without logging any of the finds I have made during that time. Once I have the ability to make it so that someone would have to manually calculate my finds to figure it out, I'll start logging online again. Plus we can laugh at the people who aren't smart enough to see past false finds and those who are pitiful enough to do so.

 

...and we have forum rule violation.

How so? It isn't pointed at anyone specific and currently no one preforms the mentioned potential action.

 

Oh well in that case the vague collection of people that can't seem to stop complaining about the new feature that doesn't meet their personal aesthetic are acting like something that rhymes with but may not actually be "naysaying over-dramatic goobers", in my opinion. :rolleyes:

You took that out of context. Try again. I have false finds before I stopped logging online so anyone who did not do their research wile attempting to get my count wouldn't be smart enough to do so using the method I stated. And anyone who would get the count right using that method would be quite pitiful in their desperation to know.

So once again, How so? It isn't pointed at anyone specific and currently no one preforms the mentioned potential action.

 

Okay, if you stopped logging any of your finds then you really have no need to be concerned about any of this. You've opted out of recording your finds so how Challenges are recorded really don't effect you. At all.

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What I would love to see is the find count of players completely removed from the cache page logs. If you want to know how many finds a player has, you can browse to their profile.

There you'll get a break down of exactly what the players skills are.

 

I like that idea a lot.

 

FYI: There is a Feedbacl topic for this feature.

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1055463-let-me-hide-my-find-counts

 

Just in case you're interested.

 

I do not like the idea at all as looking at the profiles requires logging into the site. The find counts on the logs can be viewed without having to log in - that's much more convenient. Moreover, it is much nicer to get an overview of how many cachers are doing challenges at all by just looking at a local cache that most local cachers have found than having to look at all their profiles.

 

Cezanne

 

Why on earth would you ever want to not be logged into the site? You're adding the extra step.

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Why on earth would you ever want to not be logged into the site? You're adding the extra step.

Logging in is an extra step. Some people have many places where they view the site. Having to log in to each one is a pain, especially when the site starts logging your older logins out.

 

On my iPhone I have at least 4 places where I'd need to log in to the site: geocaching app, safari, twitter client, facebook client. Yes, each app that shows the site in the app itself requires another login.

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Why on earth would you ever want to not be logged into the site? You're adding the extra step.

 

Because I am using the site from many different places, including computers with shared use. So I am not willing using the remember me option. That works well for the forums as the forum does not log me out when i do not close my browser. but the gc.com site logs me out after quite a short period.

 

Cezanne

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Some of the whiniest people I have ever met are geocachers. DAM*, if you don't want to see challenges, turn them off on your map when they get enabled. If you don't want them to count in YOUR total....DON'T SEARCH FOR THEM!!!

 

Geocaching is like doing your taxes. Any of us can cheat if we want and your probably not going to get caught. But your only hurting yourself. I can go thru and log traditional caches all day long if I want. I can log a find in China, BFE Mississippi, India, and South Africa all in the same day if I want and there's nothing any of you can do about it. It's falsely inflating my numbers just like lying about a challenge.

 

Also to the moaners and *itchers, why do you can about other people's number?? I don't care how many finds other folks have. I'm only worried about mine. I know I haven't cheated on any. I don't care if someone does or doesn't believe me. I have nothing to prove. I don't care if XXXXX user has 3000 finds and they are all virtuals or challenges or whatever. WHO CARES?!?!?!? All I'm worried about is finding time to go out this weekend.

 

Some of you people take this GAME waaaaaayyyyy too seriously. It's fun, it's something to do, and it gets me out of the house and gets me some exercise. But again, its a GAME...why do I care if someone else cheats. I'm not getting anything for 1000 finds.

 

Nice whining. You're obviously a champ!

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Some of the whiniest people I have ever met are geocachers. DAM*, if you don't want to see challenges, turn them off on your map when they get enabled. If you don't want them to count in YOUR total....DON'T SEARCH FOR THEM!!!

 

Geocaching is like doing your taxes. Any of us can cheat if we want and your probably not going to get caught. But your only hurting yourself. I can go thru and log traditional caches all day long if I want. I can log a find in China, BFE Mississippi, India, and South Africa all in the same day if I want and there's nothing any of you can do about it. It's falsely inflating my numbers just like lying about a challenge.

 

Also to the moaners and *itchers, why do you can about other people's number?? I don't care how many finds other folks have. I'm only worried about mine. I know I haven't cheated on any. I don't care if someone does or doesn't believe me. I have nothing to prove. I don't care if XXXXX user has 3000 finds and they are all virtuals or challenges or whatever. WHO CARES?!?!?!? All I'm worried about is finding time to go out this weekend.

 

Some of you people take this GAME waaaaaayyyyy too seriously. It's fun, it's something to do, and it gets me out of the house and gets me some exercise. But again, its a GAME...why do I care if someone else cheats. I'm not getting anything for 1000 finds.

 

Nice whining. You're obviously a champ!

 

Did I step on your toes too hard? :laughing:

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Groundspeak introduced Challenges. Thousands of people had a problem with Challenges, either as a whole or a certain aspect of it. So a large number of those people spoke up by voicing their opinions, concerns & dislikes in this forum and on Feedback. That's what the 2 services are for, right? Groundspeak listened and made a slight change, they separated the counts. It's a change I personally think is for the better. Why do so many of you have a problem with what happened here? Is it because you didn't get your way? It sure seems like it. Why not be angry with Groundspeak? They're the ones who changed it. No, instead you come here and insult those who think differently because you know a select group of cachers in this forum will back you up and there will be little to no consequence for your words. You talk about "tired old arguments"...what I find amusing is that so many people in this thread who are making fun of "whiners and complainers" are the very same people who, over & over again, complain about things like blank & short logs, something that GS has reiterated time after time is allowed. But that's not good enough, is it? If you can't get GS to change it to the way YOU want it, then you take it upon yourselves to gang up & bully people in this forum to play the way you play, log the way you log, and meet your own personal caching standards. Newcomers get such a bad impression of the caching community when they read this forum. I've heard it several times myself and noticed it right away when I first came here. Unfortunately it threatens to chase many away from this hobby and has accomplished just that with some. Good thing huh, because they were probably smartphone cachers who were just going to hide bad caches and create short logs anyway, right? You tell the ones who had a problem with Challenges to move on now that GS has made a decision. Has it occurred to you that maybe you should move on too? I'm just thankful most of the cachers in my area are nothing like what I see here.

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Some of the whiniest people I have ever met are geocachers. DAM*, if you don't want to see challenges, turn them off on your map when they get enabled. If you don't want them to count in YOUR total....DON'T SEARCH FOR THEM!!!

 

Geocaching is like doing your taxes. Any of us can cheat if we want and your probably not going to get caught. But your only hurting yourself. I can go thru and log traditional caches all day long if I want. I can log a find in China, BFE Mississippi, India, and South Africa all in the same day if I want and there's nothing any of you can do about it. It's falsely inflating my numbers just like lying about a challenge.

 

Also to the moaners and *itchers, why do you can about other people's number?? I don't care how many finds other folks have. I'm only worried about mine. I know I haven't cheated on any. I don't care if someone does or doesn't believe me. I have nothing to prove. I don't care if XXXXX user has 3000 finds and they are all virtuals or challenges or whatever. WHO CARES?!?!?!? All I'm worried about is finding time to go out this weekend.

 

Some of you people take this GAME waaaaaayyyyy too seriously. It's fun, it's something to do, and it gets me out of the house and gets me some exercise. But again, its a GAME...why do I care if someone else cheats. I'm not getting anything for 1000 finds.

 

Nice whining. You're obviously a champ!

 

Did I step on your toes too hard? :laughing:

Nope. Not at all. I just like to point out kettles that are fond of pointing out the color of the pots.

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Groundspeak introduced Challenges. Thousands of people had a problem with Challenges, either as a whole or a certain aspect of it. So a large number of those people spoke up by voicing their opinions, concerns & dislikes in this forum and on Feedback. That's what the 2 services are for, right? Groundspeak listened and made a slight change, they separated the counts. It's a change I personally think is for the better. Why do so many of you have a problem with what happened here? Is it because you didn't get your way? It sure seems like it. Why not be angry with Groundspeak? They're the ones who changed it. No, instead you come here and insult those who think differently because you know a select group of cachers in this forum will back you up and there will be little to no consequence for your words. You talk about "tired old arguments"...what I find amusing is that so many people in this thread who are making fun of "whiners and complainers" are the very same people who, over & over again, complain about things like blank & short logs, something that GS has reiterated time after time is allowed. But that's not good enough, is it? If you can't get GS to change it to the way YOU want it, then you take it upon yourselves to gang up & bully people in this forum to play the way you play, log the way you log, and meet your own personal caching standards. Newcomers get such a bad impression of the caching community when they read this forum. I've heard it several times myself and noticed it right away when I first came here. Unfortunately it threatens to chase many away from this hobby and has accomplished just that with some. Good thing huh, because they were probably smartphone cachers who were just going to hide bad caches and create short logs anyway, right? You tell the ones who had a problem with Challenges to move on now that GS has made a decision. Has it occurred to you that maybe you should move on too? I'm just thankful most of the cachers in my area are nothing like what I see here.

 

Completely agree.

 

Micros are too hard. Lamp poles are too easy. Logs are less than 27.3 characters. Geez. :rolleyes:

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Some of the whiniest people I have ever met are geocachers. DAM*, if you don't want to see challenges, turn them off on your map when they get enabled. If you don't want them to count in YOUR total....DON'T SEARCH FOR THEM!!!

 

Geocaching is like doing your taxes. Any of us can cheat if we want and your probably not going to get caught. But your only hurting yourself. I can go thru and log traditional caches all day long if I want. I can log a find in China, BFE Mississippi, India, and South Africa all in the same day if I want and there's nothing any of you can do about it. It's falsely inflating my numbers just like lying about a challenge.

 

Also to the moaners and *itchers, why do you can about other people's number?? I don't care how many finds other folks have. I'm only worried about mine. I know I haven't cheated on any. I don't care if someone does or doesn't believe me. I have nothing to prove. I don't care if XXXXX user has 3000 finds and they are all virtuals or challenges or whatever. WHO CARES?!?!?!? All I'm worried about is finding time to go out this weekend.

 

Some of you people take this GAME waaaaaayyyyy too seriously. It's fun, it's something to do, and it gets me out of the house and gets me some exercise. But again, its a GAME...why do I care if someone else cheats. I'm not getting anything for 1000 finds.

 

Nice whining. You're obviously a champ!

 

So predictable - you know the poster speaks the truth. So many here are moanandgroanaholics :unsure:

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