+dorqie Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 So, my attributes thread got me thinking... To those of you with disabilities, or who regularly cache with those with disabilities (or differently abled, or whatever flowery term you like) how do you decide what caches to look for? I look at the attributes, d/t, and the cache description. I also look at google maps to make sure the cache has an escape route if I need to get out of there quickly. Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 On poor mobility days I look for lower terrain caches and make sure to pack things like my cane and knee braces. Have you checked out the Handicaching website? It is helpful. Quote Link to comment
+dorqie Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 On poor mobility days I look for lower terrain caches and make sure to pack things like my cane and knee braces. Have you checked out the Handicaching website? It is helpful. I have rated my hides on Handicaching, but it has not caught on enough in my area to be of a whole lot of assistance. I seem to be the only one that rates caches around here on it. Quote Link to comment
+AbbieK Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I have a part-time disability - on some days I can't walk far or bend, or stand on steep slopes etc. Other days I'm fine. On bad days, if I'm able to cache at all, I check the terrain rating and difficulty level, and also if the wheelchair or pushchair attribute is selected (or not). I check that it isn't too far a walk from a safe parking spot, and that it looks like the terrain will be ok - so avoiding river banks and similar. I've not found any handicaching reviews on my local caches, I suppose I should review the caches I've been to but I worry about getting it wrong. Quote Link to comment
laserrush123 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 if your cache is for someone with disabilities the terrain should be classed under 1.5. Quote Link to comment
cezanne Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) if your cache is for someone with disabilities the terrain should be classed under 1.5. This is right and wrong at the same time. I am with you that 1* should really be used only when one is sure about handicapped accessibility in a broad sense. The key issue is how you define disabilities. I guess it would be better to think of our abilities as a kind of continuum and everyone reaches certain scores somewhere on the scale. In some way everyone has disabilities in one way or the other, but of course not all at the same level and some are much more handicapped as others and are handicapped in activities that are really important in their lives while others might have disabilities they are not even aware of. But let's stop with this rather philosophical issue and move over to my geocaching related massage. There are many cachers with various types of handicaps and disabilities (temporary ones, day-depending ones, permanent ones) that are able to cope with caches with ratings >=1.5* depending on the situation and the day. Certainly you can tell them keep with 1* caches and be happy, but I do not think that this is something that will make these people happy. Think e.g. of people who have terrible pains in some limbs/joints during certain phases and then have troubles with walking longer distances, with bending etc while they do not have only minor problems or no problems at all at other days. I can manage some high terrain caches if they are of the appropriate type and might fail with lower terrain caches (some even 1.5+) e.g. if they force me to jump down or if I have to walk for a longer time on a slope keeping the same height or if I have make a very large step up upwards without having any support by my arms (one of my knees is not allowing as the pressure gets too high then). Another example: I know a cacher who has just one arm. She manages to climb up to places where I fail, but opening containers which are screwed up very tightly is not possible for her as she can use her prothesis in a very reduced manner. I also was deeply moved when I read the story of TheAlabamaRambler in a book on geocaching. Have a look at what type of caches he achieved to reach. (Here I feel that the term achievement really fits while I do not regard it as an achievement if a fully fit person finds 1000 caches). Another issue that is typically overlooked at least in the countries where I cache frequently and where multi caches with question to answer stages are very frequent are various versions of partial color blindness. Cezanne Edited June 30, 2011 by cezanne Quote Link to comment
+dorqie Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 if your cache is for someone with disabilities the terrain should be classed under 1.5. This is right and wrong at the same time. I am with you that 1* should really be used only when one is sure about handicapped accessibility in a broad sense. The key issue is how you define disabilities. I guess it would be better to think of our abilities as a kind of continuum and everyone reaches certain scores somewhere on the scale. In some way everyone has disabilities in one way or the other, but of course not all at the same level and some are much more handicapped as others and are handicapped in activities that are really important in their lives while others might have disabilities they are not even aware of. But let's stop with this rather philosophical issue and move over to my geocaching related massage. There are many cachers with various types of handicaps and disabilities (temporary ones, day-depending ones, permanent ones) that are able to cope with caches with ratings >=1.5* depending on the situation and the day. Certainly you can tell them keep with 1* caches and be happy, but I do not think that this is something that will make these people happy. Think e.g. of people who have terrible pains in some limbs/joints during certain phases and then have troubles with walking longer distances, with bending etc while they do not have only minor problems or no problems at all at other days. I can manage some high terrain caches if they are of the appropriate type and might fail with lower terrain caches (some even 1.5+) e.g. if they force me to jump down or if I have to walk for a longer time on a slope keeping the same height or if I have make a very large step up upwards without having any support by my arms (one of my knees is not allowing as the pressure gets too high then). Another example: I know a cacher who has just one arm. She manages to climb up to places where I fail, but opening containers which are screwed up very tightly is not possible for her as she can use her prothesis in a very reduced manner. I also was deeply moved when I read the story of TheAlabamaRambler in a book on geocaching. Have a look at what type of caches he achieved to reach. (Here I feel that the term achievement really fits while I do not regard it as an achievement if a fully fit person finds 1000 caches). Another issue that is typically overlooked at least in the countries where I cache frequently and where multi caches with question to answer stages are very frequent are various versions of partial color blindness. Cezanne what she said. Also, sometimes even with a terrain rating of 1, a person with a certain disability might still not be able to access the cache, for example if they are in a wheelchair and the cache is at the end of a flat paved walkway (to make it a 1) but it's hiding spot leaves it unreachable to them. Terrain ratings give us an idea, but aren't the be all/end all. Quote Link to comment
+Flintstone5611 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Also, sometimes even with a terrain rating of 1, a person with a certain disability might still not be able to access the cache, for example if they are in a wheelchair and the cache is at the end of a flat paved walkway (to make it a 1) but it's hiding spot leaves it unreachable to them. Terrain ratings give us an idea, but aren't the be all/end all. I absolutely agree with this statement and as such I have a problem with people insisting that you can only use a 1 terrain if it is wheelchair accessible (or WCA for short). We have a WCA attribute to indicate this point. I have even heard that reviewers have told COs to change the terrain rating to a 1.5 if it isn't WCA. The understanding of handicapped is often narrow by most "healthy" peoples standard. I am just glad that Groundspeak is such a strong advocate of assisting the disabled, it really shows a sense of condsideration as a company. Quote Link to comment
+dorqie Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Also, sometimes even with a terrain rating of 1, a person with a certain disability might still not be able to access the cache, for example if they are in a wheelchair and the cache is at the end of a flat paved walkway (to make it a 1) but it's hiding spot leaves it unreachable to them. Terrain ratings give us an idea, but aren't the be all/end all. I absolutely agree with this statement and as such I have a problem with people insisting that you can only use a 1 terrain if it is wheelchair accessible (or WCA for short). We have a WCA attribute to indicate this point. I have even heard that reviewers have told COs to change the terrain rating to a 1.5 if it isn't WCA. The understanding of handicapped is often narrow by most "healthy" peoples standard. I am just glad that Groundspeak is such a strong advocate of assisting the disabled, it really shows a sense of condsideration as a company. I am thinking of my father, who was in a wheelchair, and only had the use of one arm. If the hiding spot at the end of the straight paved path was over his head, he wouldn't have been able to get it. If it was on the ground, still probably would have trouble reaching it, but that's why he used a grabber. If the hidey hole was too narrow for the grabber to fit, still no dice. WCA is so hard to judge with geocaches, because getting the chair to the cache is only part of the equation. Quote Link to comment
+Flintstone5611 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I am thinking of my father, who was in a wheelchair, and only had the use of one arm. If the hiding spot at the end of the straight paved path was over his head, he wouldn't have been able to get it. If it was on the ground, still probably would have trouble reaching it, but that's why he used a grabber. If the hidey hole was too narrow for the grabber to fit, still no dice. WCA is so hard to judge with geocaches, because getting the chair to the cache is only part of the equation. Great point. Although I am pretty sure that there aren't a ton of one armed wheelchair bound cachers. Not trying to minimize it, but the numbers are important to look at when you really specialize. You can't create a cache that can satisfy all scenarios. Did I just flip/flop on that, because I still feel the same? Quote Link to comment
+dorqie Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 I am thinking of my father, who was in a wheelchair, and only had the use of one arm. If the hiding spot at the end of the straight paved path was over his head, he wouldn't have been able to get it. If it was on the ground, still probably would have trouble reaching it, but that's why he used a grabber. If the hidey hole was too narrow for the grabber to fit, still no dice. WCA is so hard to judge with geocaches, because getting the chair to the cache is only part of the equation. Great point. Although I am pretty sure that there aren't a ton of one armed wheelchair bound cachers. Not trying to minimize it, but the numbers are important to look at when you really specialize. You can't create a cache that can satisfy all scenarios. Did I just flip/flop on that, because I still feel the same? but how many people do you know in wheelchairs that are in them for exactly the same reason? My point was just that wheelchair accessible for one, isn't for another. Quote Link to comment
Av3nois Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I can get places in my power chair that I would not think of going in my manual one. There are places that my manual chair can go that the power chair can't. Even for the same person it can change depending on what chair and/or vehicle you happen to be using for the day. Quote Link to comment
+dorqie Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 I can get places in my power chair that I would not think of going in my manual one. There are places that my manual chair can go that the power chair can't. Even for the same person it can change depending on what chair and/or vehicle you happen to be using for the day. So how do you decide which caches to search for? Quote Link to comment
Av3nois Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I can get places in my power chair that I would not think of going in my manual one. There are places that my manual chair can go that the power chair can't. Even for the same person it can change depending on what chair and/or vehicle you happen to be using for the day. So how do you decide which caches to search for? In my case I can still use crutches so I can look for a wide range of caches. However, when hiding caches, I would steer towards lowest common denominator. I try to make the caches accessible for someone in a manual chair with limited mobility in their arms as well. I also use the handicaching site so I can give a more accurate picture of what to expect. Quote Link to comment
+Chokecherry Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 When I go with my mom she brings canes or uses walking sticks. I typically look for caches with a terrain rating of 1 or 1.5. However, if the cache is close to a road and she can get with in sight of me finding it I will sometimes take her to 2 or 3 for terrain ratings. Our biggest issue is those people who low ball their terrain ratings to 1 or 1.5 to get more visitors or for whatever reason and they're really not that. I cannot count how many times we have had to turn back because we did a 1.5 is high up in a tree (not cute or funny or even amusing at that point) or because they rated it because they could get there on an ATV and stuff like that. I usually put more caches on the list than we do to compensate for the fact that we end up walking away from a bunch on any given trip rated poorly. I also read the logs and description and check it out on maps before going as well to get a better feel for things. Quote Link to comment
+cameracowgirl Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 It all depends on the type of disability that someone has. I have found that it's more important to know your abilities and do your research before you go to the site. Just because a cache is listed as wheelchair accessible, does not mean that it's suitable for all persons with a disability. I have polymyositis, a rare illness that causes me to lose muscle with exercise. I tire easily, have weak muscles that cause balance problems, am prone to tripping, need to move slowly, and can't climb very well. I have learned that for my abilities I need to stick to a 1 1/2 terrain rating or less, and mostly the cache must to be within 100m of a parking spot. I can only spend less than 15 minutes searching, so if a cache has a difficulty rating of more than a 1, I either try to find out why, or else I make more than one attempt at finding the cache. I always bring a cel phone in case I fall and can't get up and sometimes I just need to bring along an able-bodied buddy to help. Helpful hint: When I am geocaching alone and need to use my hiking poles instead of my cane, I can't hold my GPS. One of the best things I ever did was to take 2 small hose clamps and use them to attach the vertical part of an "L" bracket to my hiking poles. Now I can temporarily mount my GPS on the horizontal part of the "L" bracket with a couple of strong elastic bands. This way I can use both poles for stability and still "hold" my GPS. cameracowgirl Quote Link to comment
+K0BKL Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I have had to pass up a number of caches in my area that are impossible for me to access. One is on the side frame of a bridge with no floor. No way am I going try making my way on a bridge side frame! Some caches require walking more than a mile where cars cannot go! One is a 3 mile round trip! Who can do this one? Multis give you no more points that a single, so, I pass up a lot of these caches as well! I may even decide to quit geocaching. Quote Link to comment
jri Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 On poor mobility days I look for lower terrain caches and make sure to pack things like my cane and knee braces. Have you checked out the Handicaching website? It is helpful. I have rated my hides on Handicaching, but it has not caught on enough in my area to be of a whole lot of assistance. I seem to be the only one that rates caches around here on it. I've recently written a Greasemonkey script that might help Handicaching become a little more handy. It shows you the Handicaching rating as part of the geocache listing, and gives you a link to let you rate the cache. That might be a little less onerous than having to go to a different website to see the accessibility details for each cache (only to find that no-one's rated it yet). You can find out more at userscripts.com: Handicaching Userscript Hope someone finds it useful. Quote Link to comment
+ScallywagGrammies Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 My mom is the other half of ScallywagGrammies. She's 81 and has COPD as well as some other health issues. Usually I'll look for the easier terrain ones and, even then, I'll check the satellite map to make sure it's accessible for her to walk to easily. If it's more than a 100'-150' walk (more like 50'-75') or if it's uneven or hilly terrain, we don't even bother with it. The past couple of weeks I've had some health issues of my own that makes even walking from my front door to my vehicle very painful at times. We've been picking up some easy P&G's, the rest can wait! Even with all of my prior planning, we come across some caches that, when we get to the area, we just look at each other and say "nah, I don't think so! No way this is a 1.5 terrain!" We have three hides and have given attributes to all three. I've written in the log descriptions how far the walk is from the parking area to the cache and if there are any obstacles along the way. I've tried to make it easier for people with physical disabilities to decide whether they can access the caches, before driving out of their way only to find they can't physically get to them. It's very disappointing, trust us, we know We're hoping to place more caches that are SHORT easy walks and some that are wheelchair accessible. I do understand the "need" for physically challenging caches, a lot of people like them (my daughter and grandkids included!) and that a 2 terrain to an avid hiker or mountain climber is actually like a -2 to them! But please, rate the terrain difficulty appropriately so the rest of us that can't physically do them can choose to ignore them. It would be nice if CO's would put in the cache descriptions just how long that "easy walk in the park or trail" actually is!! Quote Link to comment
+The Halflings Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I send The Halflings off to get the more remote ones, I tend to concentrate on the cache and dash. Halflings dad Quote Link to comment
+Madav42 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 We look at the cache descriptions, terrain, logs, and maps. The logs sometimes have clues in them to the difficulty. I wish CO's would put attributes in, but not everyone does. Any lengthy hikes are out of the question generally, and we'll probably never do a 5/5. No kayaking either. Oh, and we can't climb trees. We keep teasing that we are going to start packing a grappling hook and rope to help us get back out of places. We are a married couple, and sometimes I (the wife) wait while my husband goes down slopes, places with not so secure footing, etc. At present I have arthritis, some slipped discs, sciatica and bursitis in one hip. Some days I wait in the car and watch my delightful spouse do the drunken bee dance. But I am an awesome navigator and map reader, a pretty good puzzle solver and I have some geosense and common sense about where things might be. We've gotten pretty good at weeding out caches that are beyond my capabilities. Sometimes we fail, but that's part of the game. Quote Link to comment
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