Ettiquette of doing maintenance on other player's caches?

[+Minifig Ant]

There's a cache I found recently that is badly in need of maintenance. It's been marked as Needs Maintenance for a long time, with no action on the part of the owner.

 

It's a great cache and really popular, so it's a shame to let it sit there and be unusable - the container's seal has long since disintegrated and the log is constantly wet as a result. The whole thing would need to be replaced.

 

My plan would be to remove the original log so I could dry it out, replace the container with a new one and a placeholder log, then return the original log once it's dry (although I'm not sure the log is salvageable).

 

Would this be too much? Replacing a full log is one thing, but completely replacing the entire cache? If you were the owner, how would you feel about it?

[Pup Patrol]

You will probably get the same sort of replies as this very recent thread about the same thing:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=275562

[+StarBrand]

Caches need real owners. Involved owners. Sometimes it is best to file a badly needed "Needs Archived" log type and let the reviewer deal with it. That might spark some action by the owner. If not, once archived - reuse the spot with your container.

[AZcachemeister]

Caches need real owners. Involved owners. Sometimes it is best to file a badly needed "Needs Archived" log type and let the reviewer deal with it. That might spark some action by the owner. If not, once archived - reuse the spot with your container.

 

What he said.

Anything else will only prolong the agony.

[+briansnat]

Sometimes a cache needs to be put out of its misery. If the owner has abandoned it then it should be archived. If the area is so great someone who (hopefully) will take care of the cache can place a new one there.

[knowschad]

Caches need real owners. Involved owners. Sometimes it is best to file a badly needed "Needs Archived" log type and let the reviewer deal with it. That might spark some action by the owner. If not, once archived - reuse the spot with your container.

 

What he said.

Anything else will only prolong the agony.

 

I have to agree, as well. I personally wish that Groundspeak would get rid of the cache "adoption" policy completely. If the area is worth a cache, then it is worth another cache.

[+zoborowi]

I am new to caching, 1 year, and trying to work out the etiquette of caching as well. I've printed new logs and carry new zip lock bags thinking that I was helping out, but after reading these post and reading the link that that Pup Patrol posted I now realize that I might be doing more harm then good.

 

So now I post this question. After posting a need maintenance log how long should you give an owner to perform the maintenance before you request that it be archived?

[+Ecylram]

My opinion has evolved as I've gained more experience...

 

I'd say if the owner is no longer maintaining the cache then post a Needs Archive. Once it's archived, you can place your own well-maintained cache.

 

CAVEAT: I do make a personal exception for 'historic' caches. If the cache is old, 2000-2004ish (and doesn't suck), I'd have no qualms performing maintenance.

[knowschad]

I am new to caching, 1 year, and trying to work out the etiquette of caching as well. I've printed new logs and carry new zip lock bags thinking that I was helping out, but after reading these post and reading the link that that Pup Patrol posted I now realize that I might be doing more harm then good.

 

So now I post this question. After posting a need maintenance log how long should you give an owner to perform the maintenance before you request that it be archived?

 

Easy answer: "It depends" LOL!

 

If yours is the first Needs Maint log that has been posted, then you probably should just forget it and move along. If several Needs Maint logs have been posted over a period of a couple of months with no action from the owner, then I'd probably check the owner's profile to see when the last time they logged in, and when was the lst time they found a cache. While it is no guarantee, those are pretty good indications of a cacher that, for one reason or another, has left the game. That would be a good time to post a NA log or notify the reviewer. Note, though, that there are definitely folks that are no longer actively caching, yet continue to perform maintenance on there own hides.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Assisting with a minor problem allowing the CO time to take care of the problem is fine, in fact, it's great!

 

To keep the cache of a non-responsive owner going just because it is a nice placement, well....... NO! It deserves to be archived and replaced by a cache that a responsible person would care for.

[+jellis]

Hmmmmm I tried to do N/A on caches that are not being maintain by the owner who are no longer active, and the caches were popular in an area, and I get jumped on by the locals. To me if the locals like them so much they should maintain themselves and not let them just sit there in such bad states or replace them if they go missing.

I love old 2000 and 2001 caches because of historic value of them and because there are many challenges linked up to these caches. But unless someone stands up and helps maintain them then what is the use?

I suggested to some that maybe areas with Geocaching clubs form some type of rescue groups that would help maintain their local caches that they deem "Special"

[+briansnat]

I am new to caching, 1 year, and trying to work out the etiquette of caching as well. I've printed new logs and carry new zip lock bags thinking that I was helping out, but after reading these post and reading the link that that Pup Patrol posted I now realize that I might be doing more harm then good.

 

So now I post this question. After posting a need maintenance log how long should you give an owner to perform the maintenance before you request that it be archived?

 

I'd say 4-6 weeks gives the CO a reasonable amount of time to respond.

[+grateful cacher]

I don't have an issue with doing minor maintenance on caches that are obviously in need of a new log, or plastic bag, or some new duct tape. In fact I have a kit with that sort of stuff in my cache cab. I also appreciate it when finders of my cache reciprocate and add a log sheet or other minor items. If the log has been damaged or is unreadable, I remove it and email the CO what I've done and offer to send it to them, otherwise I just add a sheet.

 

As for caches that are in need of maintenance and the CO is not playing the game anymore, it might be possible to have those caches adopted by someone if they are special to an area. The problem with that is TPTB only allow adoptions with the CO's approval, and if they're not around it would be impossible to arrange for that. Then the only sensible options are to archive and put another one in it's place.

[vagabond]

I'll carry spare logs and add them if the old ones are full, if they are wet it depends on the cache. I've replaced O rings I've even replaced a few caches, I'll also post needs archiving on caches. For me it all depends on the cache and the location

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Assisting with a minor problem allowing the CO time to take care of the problem is fine, in fact, it's great!

 

To keep the cache of a non-responsive owner going just because it is a nice placement, well....... NO! It deserves to be archived and replaced by a cache that a responsible person would care for.

What he said.

 

If you find one of my caches in need of repair, say a full or wet log and you can easily replace it, then by all means please do so! Why go home, file a NM and make me have to go there? I do the same when I find easily repairable issues.

 

OTOH, If I do get a NM I don't wait weeks to go fix it. I think any cache issue not addressed by the owner in 60 days should lead to archival. If you can't fix it in two months time you shouldn't own it.

[+brennan7]

I rarely post a "Needs Archived" on a cache page. It makes you look selfish by wanting to place a cache there of your own. If you DO want to do this, then I suggest posting a "Needs Maintenance" note every two weeks or so until it calls the attention of the reviewer. Then they will give warnings and disable it, and eventually archive it.

 

Answering the topic question, I can admit to replacing an entire container close to my house. That cache is practically mine since the CO hasnt been online for 2 or 3 years. I check up on it frequently.

 

Now I kind of want to adopt it...how do you do that process?

[+jellis]

I rarely post a "Needs Archived" on a cache page. It makes you look selfish by wanting to place a cache there of your own. If you DO want to do this, then I suggest posting a "Needs Maintenance" note every two weeks or so until it calls the attention of the reviewer. Then they will give warnings and disable it, and eventually archive it.

 

Answering the topic question, I can admit to replacing an entire container close to my house. That cache is practically mine since the CO hasnt been online for 2 or 3 years. I check up on it frequently.

 

Now I kind of want to adopt it...how do you do that process?

Reviewers do not get N/M notifications. They get only N/A. If you see them respond to N/M it's either because they have a notifications turned on, on their profile or a cacher sent the reviewer a message.

[+The Blorenges]

 

... Answering the topic question, I can admit to replacing an entire container close to my house. That cache is practically mine since the CO hasnt been online for 2 or 3 years. I check up on it frequently.

 

Now I kind of want to adopt it...how do you do that process?

 

You won't be able to officially adopt it unless you can get the cache owner to agree to adopt the cache over to you.

 

Adopting a cache.

 

MrsB

[+Doctroid]

I rarely post a "Needs Archived" on a cache page. It makes you look selfish by wanting to place a cache there of your own. If you DO want to do this, then I suggest posting a "Needs Maintenance" note every two weeks or so until it calls the attention of the reviewer. Then they will give warnings and disable it, and eventually archive it.

 

Answering the topic question, I can admit to replacing an entire container close to my house. That cache is practically mine since the CO hasnt been online for 2 or 3 years. I check up on it frequently.

 

Now I kind of want to adopt it...how do you do that process?

Reviewers do not get N/M notifications. They get only N/A. If you see them respond to N/M it's either because they have a notifications turned on, on their profile or a cacher sent the reviewer a message.

 

And even if they did get NM notifications, how does an NM every two weeks make you look more virtuous than a NA?

 

If a cache has been marked NM and the CO has failed to address it in a reasonable time period, I'd say there is no reason not to post an NA.

[MisterEFQ]

Ive done some on caches where nobody in the logs mentioned how bad the cache was. I replaced an altoid tin 2 weeks ago. The log just finished drying so im going back to put it back in.

 

I cache at Griffith park a lot, and I replaced another container because I happen to have one that was the perfect size. Again no NA or NM.

 

A cache that is .3 miles away from my house got a NM the other day. I sent the CO a message and offered to replace it for them, since im in walkig distance and knew the location. But they went out before they got my message.

[+Student Camper]

I rarely post a "Needs Archived" on a cache page. It makes you look selfish by wanting to place a cache there of your own. If you DO want to do this, then I suggest posting a "Needs Maintenance" note every two weeks or so until it calls the attention of the reviewer. Then they will give warnings and disable it, and eventually archive it.

 

Answering the topic question, I can admit to replacing an entire container close to my house. That cache is practically mine since the CO hasnt been online for 2 or 3 years. I check up on it frequently.

 

Now I kind of want to adopt it...how do you do that process?

You can't adopt a cache without permission from the CO.

Lacking permission, prepare a cache of your own and when it gets archived, place yours in its place, you can place a watch on it to keep track.

If it is historic or otherwise worthy, you could name it "same name, second generation" or some such and place a link to the original page for continuity.

 

If a cache is bad enough to warrant a NM or NA, do it and don't look back.

[+popokiiti]

I will replace a log, and dry out a cache. It the container is cracked I will make a note in my log and post a NM. If there have been a few NMs, no action from the CO, it will also go on my watchlist for a while.

I would only replace an entire container for someone I know personally, who is still extremely active.

[+L0ne.R]

I rarely post a "Needs Archived" on a cache page. It makes you look selfish by wanting to place a cache there of your own. If you DO want to do this, then I suggest posting a "Needs Maintenance" note every two weeks or so until it calls the attention of the reviewer. Then they will give warnings and disable it, and eventually archive it.

 

Answering the topic question, I can admit to replacing an entire container close to my house. That cache is practically mine since the CO hasnt been online for 2 or 3 years. I check up on it frequently.

 

Now I kind of want to adopt it...how do you do that process?

Reviewers do not get N/M notifications. They get only N/A. If you see them respond to N/M it's either because they have a notifications turned on, on their profile or a cacher sent the reviewer a message.

 

And even if they did get NM notifications, how does an NM every two weeks make you look more virtuous than a NA?

 

If a cache has been marked NM and the CO has failed to address it in a reasonable time period, I'd say there is no reason not to post an NA.

 

Brennan7's comment, demonstrates that there's too much of a stigma attached to 'Needs Archived'. Many consider the wording to be selfish, and quite a few COs feel slighted by the term. NM doesn't have much of a stigma attached and people wrongly assume it gets a reviewers attention. 'Needs Reviewer Attention' is a clearer, less irksome phrase. Hopefully Groundspeak will change the wording soon. The idea is "under review" in the Feedback site:

http://feedback.geoc...chive?ref=title

[+NeverSummer]

Needs a new baggie for a logbook? Not likely a problem.

Other than that, it is best to ask first just to be sure.

 

I'm not against someone replacing a logbook or baggie without asking me. But when it comes to full-on missing logbooks, damaged cache containers, etc, I'd like someone to let me know first.

 

When in doubt, ask.

[+NeverSummer]

I rarely post a "Needs Archived" on a cache page. It makes you look selfish by wanting to place a cache there of your own. If you DO want to do this, then I suggest posting a "Needs Maintenance" note every two weeks or so until it calls the attention of the reviewer. Then they will give warnings and disable it, and eventually archive it.

 

Answering the topic question, I can admit to replacing an entire container close to my house. That cache is practically mine since the CO hasnt been online for 2 or 3 years. I check up on it frequently.

 

Now I kind of want to adopt it...how do you do that process?

Reviewers do not get N/M notifications. They get only N/A. If you see them respond to N/M it's either because they have a notifications turned on, on their profile or a cacher sent the reviewer a message.

 

And even if they did get NM notifications, how does an NM every two weeks make you look more virtuous than a NA?

 

If a cache has been marked NM and the CO has failed to address it in a reasonable time period, I'd say there is no reason not to post an NA.

 

Brennan7's comment, demonstrates that there's too much of a stigma attached to 'Needs Archived'. Many consider the wording to be selfish, and quite a few COs feel slighted by the term. NM doesn't have much of a stigma attached and people wrongly assume it gets a reviewers attention. 'Needs Reviewer Attention' is a clearer, less irksome phrase. Hopefully Groundspeak will change the wording soon. The idea is "under review" in the Feedback site:

http://feedback.geoc...chive?ref=title

 

Cache owners are responsible for their cache page listings as well as the cache placement and container. If they can't maintain their cache properly, especially after being notified that it needs maintenance or a string of DNFs on a cache that should be found easily (for example), a "Needs Archived" works just fine. It alerts the reviewer that an owner is shirking their duties to take care of their side of the street. A reviewer is not the "cache police" and should not be used as such. Owners need to know that, by placing a cache, they have a responsibility. If they can't handle it, they are likely to be the ones who get most bent out of shape when a "Needs Archived" is posted.

 

It's nothing personal to anyone. It's just how the system was designed to work.

 

Let reviewers review. Let owners own. Let seekers seek. And let us just work together to be honorable and post "NM" or "NA" logs responsibly.

[+mckeefamily8]

I posted a needs archive today because the cache page had two nm's logs in the last two months and no action and the cache owner had been caching not more than 6 blocks from the location a couple days ago. I will admit I would like a cache there I don't care by who if they replace it great a smiley for me if not then a cache hidden by me or another cacher.

 

For maintenance on another cacher's cache it varies. New log will take care of if I can. New container probably not unless it is a film can then maybe if I know for a fact where it was before and then only if I know the owner. I.E. In my area there a few cachers that I will replace container for them because they use the same type but I usually can call them first while at the GZ. Sometimes It may mean a temporary container like a film can until they can place their signature hide there.