CCW and caching

[+TXHooligans]

Once I reach ground zero I start looking in likely spots but I don't really pay attention to whether I'm walking CW or CCW.

 

now that's funny right there.. i don't care who you are!!!

[+EagleRiver_Baileys]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

[+Rckhnd]

I have been charged by black bear several times. They were bluff charges in a display to mark territory. One was raiding a campground picnic area and there were families there. She also had the green X on an orange tag in her ear which meant it was her last chance. She learned people were a source of food. I was a Park Ranger at the time and the first one there. I made a lot of noise and charged her back to show my dominance, she left. The reason I did something so stupid was because a Patrol Ranger was on his way to put her down if she was still there.

 

The scary time was when I came across one with cubs. I growled loudly while slowly walking backwards, she accepted my 'defeat' and left with the cubs.

 

Now, I open carry my XD 45 cal. on a belt holster only when I'm in the boonies. Not because of bear, but because of cougar. Since Oregon has passed a ban on hunting cougar with dogs, the population has exploded. Deer herds are being decimated and elk calf mortality rates are much higher. Cougars are now showing up around schools and have even been reported in the edges of Portland and Salem.

 

My neighbors horses were attacked by two cougars, the screaming horses woke me up. With a Tracker friend, they found and shot one of the cougars, it was hiding in a child's school bus-stop rain shelter.

 

The only time I pack when caching is if I feel I'm going remote with my boy. He likes to run and jump a lot. Unfortunately, so does cougar food.

[+Ecylram]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

 

Off topic...

 

Not to my recollection. Canada and northern United States (except for Detroit) have traditionally had lower violent crime rates than the United States as a whole. Because both countries measure violent crimes differently it can be a challenge to compare. Both countries have been trending downward in the statistics since the early 70's.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Ecylram

[+CanadianRockies]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

I'd be curious to know which articles you've been reading. It can be problematic comparing crime rates across different countries, but here are the latest United Nation's per capita numbers for police-recorded crimes that I've found.

 

Homicide: U.S. is 206% higher

Assault: U.S. is 54% higher

Rape: U.S. is 1,807% higher

Robbery: U.S. is 46% higher

 

Edited to correct the percentages.

Edited March 28, 2011 by CanadianRockies

[+Ecylram]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

I'd be curious to know which articles you've been reading. It can be problematic comparing crime rates across different countries, but here are the latest United Nation's per capita numbers for police-recorded crimes that I've found.

 

Homicide: U.S. is 206% higher

Assault: U.S. is 54% higher

Rape: U.S. is 1,807% higher

Robbery: U.S. is 46% higher

 

Edited to correct the percentages.

 

This Canadian report (pdf) goes into some of the problems when comparing statistics. Among them, Rape & Assault crime categories are calculated very differently.

 

(Yes, I've noticed I'm helping the thread to drift off-topic.)

[+Manville Possum]

I always carry a legally concealed handgun with me while geocaching. There are lot's of legally armed nuts out there. And chances of running across one of them while geocaching seems likely from reading all of the threads that have been posted in this forum on this subject. So I feel it safe to assume that the person with the GPS unit in his hand and the Signal the Frog tee shirt on that is poking at a lamp post skirt with his hiking stick, may have a gun on his person or in the geobag inside the mini van full of kids. Cache safe, don't be a victim!

[+EagleRiver_Baileys]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

I'd be curious to know which articles you've been reading.

 

from nationmaster.. per 1000

rape

# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people

# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people

# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people

# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people

# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people

 

From den of zeus

 

http://denofzeus.blogspot.com/2010/09/total-crime-rates-us-vs-canada.html

 

Total Crime Rate/100,000 people

 

US: 3465 per 100,000

Canada: 6406 per 100,000

 

Violent Crime rate:

 

US: 429 per 100,000

Canada: 1314 per 100,000

 

Newsmanx

 

My link

Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

 

Press reports that Canada is a Shangri-la – an America with free health care and less crime – may be short sighted.

 

In fact, statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the United States.

 

From the Daily

 

My link

 

Increases seen in many serious violent crimes

 

While overall violent crime remained stable, most serious violent crimes were on the rise,

 

From the free republic

My link

 

Violent-Crime Rate in Canada Double US; Rises Coincide with Gun Control

 

Of course, you are defending Canada needlessly. I like Canada and have always enjoyed my visits there.

[+Chrysalides]

from nationmaster.. per 1000

rape

# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people

# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people

# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people

# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people

# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

 

2009 Rate

 

US : 28.6 per 100k

Canada : 1.5 per 100k

[Andronicus]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

I'd be curious to know which articles you've been reading.

 

from nationmaster.. per 1000

rape

# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people

# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people

# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people

# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people

# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people

 

From den of zeus

 

http://denofzeus.blogspot.com/2010/09/total-crime-rates-us-vs-canada.html

 

Total Crime Rate/100,000 people

 

US: 3465 per 100,000

Canada: 6406 per 100,000

 

Violent Crime rate:

 

US: 429 per 100,000

Canada: 1314 per 100,000

 

Newsmanx

 

My link

Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

 

Press reports that Canada is a Shangri-la – an America with free health care and less crime – may be short sighted.

 

In fact, statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the United States.

 

From the Daily

 

My link

 

Increases seen in many serious violent crimes

 

While overall violent crime remained stable, most serious violent crimes were on the rise,

 

From the free republic

My link

 

Violent-Crime Rate in Canada Double US; Rises Coincide with Gun Control

 

Of course, you are defending Canada needlessly. I like Canada and have always enjoyed my visits there.

I realize this is way off topic, but I think I will believe the UN study over those "Never-Heard-Of-Them" sourses. As for "Shangri-la", I agree with you, we have lots of problems here (health care is one of them), but violent crime is not one of them.

[+CanadianRockies]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

I'd be curious to know which articles you've been reading. It can be problematic comparing crime rates across different countries, but here are the latest United Nation's per capita numbers for police-recorded crimes that I've found.

 

Homicide: U.S. is 206% higher

Assault: U.S. is 54% higher

Rape: U.S. is 1,807% higher

Robbery: U.S. is 46% higher

 

Edited to correct the percentages.

 

This Canadian report (pdf) goes into some of the problems when comparing statistics. Among them, Rape & Assault crime categories are calculated very differently.

As I noted, "It can be problematic comparing crime rates across different countries." But let's take a look at that Canadian report.

 

For assault, the Canadian report concludes: "By combining three Canadian offences (aggravated assault, assault with a weapon, and attempted murder), it is possible to compare aggravated assault." For Canada, the U.N. report includes aggravated assault, assault with a weapon, and simple assault, but doesn't include attempted murder (2.2/100,000 in 2008). For the U.S., the U.N. report doesn't include simple assault (12.9/100,000 in 2008).

 

If we include Canadian attempted murders and U.S. simple assaults, then the U.S. assault rate is 60% higher instead of my previously reported 54% higher.

 

As for rape, the Canadian report does indeed conclude: "Due to significant definitional differences, it is impossible to compare sexual assault in Canada to forcible rape in the United States." But the reason they aren't comparable is because Canada defines "sexual assault" much more broadly than the U.S. defines forciple rape:

 

The offence of forcible rape is limited to forced sexual intercourse by a male against a female. This crime differs from the Canadian sexual assault offences, which are neither gender-specific nor confined to sexual intercourse. Although Canada does not describe sexual assault in the Criminal Code, sexual assault can be defined as an assault of a sexual nature that does not require sexual penetration.

For Canada, the U.N. report notes: "'Rape' includes sexual assault with a weapon and aggravated sexual assault that may or may not involve sexual intercourse." For the U.S., the U.N. report notes: "Rape; defined by the FBI as; 'the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will;' does not include offenses perpetrated against males."

 

So, it would appear that the actual incidence of rape is more than 1,807% higher in the U.S. than in Canada.

 

Of course, it's still problematic comparing crime rates across different countries.

[+EagleRiver_Baileys]

Obviously you would believe stats that you pulled up over stats someone you are debating pulled. I guess I could just as easily say.. "I'll believe my stats over...."

 

agree with you, we have lots of problems here (health care is one of them), but violent crime is not one of them.

 

If you really believe that, you don't know anyone that has been the victim of a violent crime. Violent crime is a problem.. period.

I choose to carry a weapon when I'm in the woods because often I have one or more of my 5 year olds with me and it's my job to keep them safe. In the Blackjack Springs wilderness I frequent, bears and wolves are not uncommon. If one of my kids stumbled between a sow and her cubs, there could be problems. Small chance sure... but why risk it when it's quite easy to carry a sidearm? There's an almost equal chance in the US that I'll be the victim of a house fire or a violent crime. I bet most houses have loaded fire extinguishers.

 

My own issue is the anti's who belittle those who choose to carry.

 

You never need a gun until you need one.

 

Happy caching

Edited March 28, 2011 by EagleRiver_Baileys

[+Rckhnd]

I'm new to caching and I have been wondering how common it is for cachers to carry concealed weapons while caching, the ones that have a carry permit in their local of course. Am I alone out here?

 

Wow, Lookit what you started!

Edited March 28, 2011 by Rckhnd

[mresoteric]

I've seen a couple of references to printing while crawling under things. I get the impression that if you are CCW and your weapon becomes exposed that this can be illegal? Or is it just that you want to make every effort not to reveal you are carrying?

 

I was also wondering if anyone had any concerns about their weapon getting clogged or jammed with dirt while crawling under stuff looking for a cache?

[+Ecylram]

I've seen a couple of references to printing while crawling under things. I get the impression that if you are CCW and your weapon becomes exposed that this can be illegal? Or is it just that you want to make every effort not to reveal you are carrying?

 

I was also wondering if anyone had any concerns about their weapon getting clogged or jammed with dirt while crawling under stuff looking for a cache?

 

Printing is not a problem legally as the weapon is still covered. Printing is bad because some people get alarmed when they find out someone is carrying a gun.

 

As for exposing your gun, in some jurisdictions, it is illegal to carry an exposed weapon but legal to carry a concealed weapon (w/permit). Aside from that, if open carry is legal

there still are people who get alarmed.

 

I doubt that cachers have a significant concern about the weapon getting clogged while caching. By necessity, a concealed weapon is not exposed to being clogged. Even exposed, it's highly unlikely that geocaching activities would clog the muzzle. By highly-unlikely, I'd say a 10-million-to-one chance.

[mresoteric]

Thanks for clearing up a lot of confusion for me. I just assumed if concealed weapons were permitted that open carry would be automatic. It almost seems a little backwards.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding the term printing very well either. Does that refer to how identifiable the weapon is through the clothes rather than just revealing the weapon by say your shirt getting pulled up over the weapon?

 

I know while out hiking, I tend to wipe sweat with my shirt. I will also unbutton my outer shirt if it's hot. I guess I would need to have some way of concealing in my pants or my ankle. But I guess the only real risk of damage to the weapon would be when you slip the banks of the lake or tumble down a steep incline.

 

That brings up another issue unrelated to the topic. If you take a tumble downhill, what is the risk of an accidental discharge?

[+Manville Possum]

I'm new to caching and I have been wondering how common it is for cachers to carry concealed weapons while caching, the ones that have a carry permit in their local of course. Am I alone out here?

 

New account, no hides, no finds, few posts. Post known hot topic in forum. No, you are not alone.

[mresoteric]

I'm new to caching and I have been wondering how common it is for cachers to carry concealed weapons while caching, the ones that have a carry permit in their local of course. Am I alone out here?

 

New account, no hides, no finds, few posts. Post known hot topic in forum. No, you are not alone.

If he is new, then how would he be aware that this is a hot topic? I'm new too and I've been picking up things here and there. This is the first gun discussion I've seen since I started.

[+Ecylram]

Thanks for clearing up a lot of confusion for me. I just assumed if concealed weapons were permitted that open carry would be automatic. It almost seems a little backwards.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding the term printing very well either. Does that refer to how identifiable the weapon is through the clothes rather than just revealing the weapon by say your shirt getting pulled up over the weapon?

 

I know while out hiking, I tend to wipe sweat with my shirt. I will also unbutton my outer shirt if it's hot. I guess I would need to have some way of concealing in my pants or my ankle. But I guess the only real risk of damage to the weapon would be when you slip the banks of the lake or tumble down a steep incline.

 

That brings up another issue unrelated to the topic. If you take a tumble downhill, what is the risk of an accidental discharge?

 

My apologies to the real experts for the over-simplified answers...

 

'Print'ing is seeing the im'print' of the gun through the clothes. This is avoided by a careful choice of gun, clothes and carry style.

 

Warm weather makes carrying concealed more difficult. The clothes get lighter and there is less of them. Some materials don't handle sweat well and carrying against the body is less comfortable. Many will switch to a smaller weapon that is more comfortable to wear or can more easily fit in a pocket. Others will move to keeping their weapon in fanny packs.

 

The hardest question to answer is your question regarding accidental discharge as so many variables are involved. The vast majority of handguns are designed in such a way to minimize this possibility. For example, in many designs there is a plate between the hammer and the shell that only moves out of the way when the trigger is pulled. That way a blow to the hammer can't drive it into the shell. Though a small part of the market, there are some REALLY cheaply made pistols that aren't as resistant to discharge due to dropping.

 

To my knowledge, most accidental discharges are not due to hitting the ground but due to careless grabbing/gripping of the gun due to the pointer finger remaining in the finger guard and accidentally squeezing the trigger. A gun going off due to it dropping and hitting something is extremely rare.

 

The risks of accidental discharge are minimized through a variety of ways: purchasing a quality gun, practice handling the gun, a holster that covers the finger guard, and using a strap (velcro or snapped) that holds the weapon in the holster. The most common technique is to put on the safety and to not leave a shell in the chamber. That way if the hammer does come down for any reason, there is nothing for it to strike.

 

A responsible cacher, or any carrier, will take steps to make sure the gun is secure in its holster and won't become dislodged. This is a constant concern for police officers because of their occasional need to scuffle with non-compliant individuals.

[+Rckhnd]

That brings up another issue unrelated to the topic. If you take a tumble downhill, what is the risk of an accidental discharge?

 

Zero chance here. I don't EVER walk around with a chambered round. I can jack in a round quick enough if I have to.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Rckhnd

[+EagleRiver_Baileys]

Thanks for clearing up a lot of confusion for me. I just assumed if concealed weapons were permitted that open carry would be automatic. It almost seems a little backwards.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding the term printing very well either. Does that refer to how identifiable the weapon is through the clothes rather than just revealing the weapon by say your shirt getting pulled up over the weapon?

 

I know while out hiking, I tend to wipe sweat with my shirt. I will also unbutton my outer shirt if it's hot. I guess I would need to have some way of concealing in my pants or my ankle. But I guess the only real risk of damage to the weapon would be when you slip the banks of the lake or tumble down a steep incline.

 

That brings up another issue unrelated to the topic. If you take a tumble downhill, what is the risk of an accidental discharge?

I believe Florida has a concealed carry statute but open carry is illegal... weird huh?

 

As far as your scenario about tumbling down a hill goes, the odds of a Negligent or accidental discharge is either minute or impossible, depending on how/what you carry. You could get a ND from certain revolvers if you had the hammer down on a live cylinder, or perhaps a 1911 carried in condition 2. I say negligent rather than accidental because carrying said weapons this way is unwise and risking a ND.

[+entogeek]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

 

Let's not forget about our alleged alarming increase in unreported crime - I kid you not!

 

BTW, this federal minister has decided not to run again in our current federal election. I'd like to say that his decision is a crime but I'm not alarmed by it.

[+NeecesandNephews]

I'm new to caching and I have been wondering how common it is for cachers to carry concealed weapons while caching, the ones that have a carry permit in their local of course. Am I alone out here?

 

New account, no hides, no finds, few posts. Post known hot topic in forum. No, you are not alone.

If he is new, then how would he be aware that this is a hot topic? I'm new too and I've been picking up things here and there. This is the first gun discussion I've seen since I started.

 

By "hot" topic I am sure MPH did not mean "popular" but rather meant "sensitive". Regardless of the Forum "hobby" , guns are a sensitive topic everywhere.

[+CanadianRockies]

I'm glad to hear the crime rate is going down in Canada. In some articles I've read, the violent crime rate in Canada is nearly double that in the US. No, I am not bashing Canada, I'm just pointing out that it's no safer there than it is here in the US.

I'd be curious to know which articles you've been reading.

 

from nationmaster.. per 1000

rape

# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people

# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people

# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people

# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people

# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people

 

From den of zeus

 

http://denofzeus.blogspot.com/2010/09/total-crime-rates-us-vs-canada.html

 

Total Crime Rate/100,000 people

 

US: 3465 per 100,000

Canada: 6406 per 100,000

 

Violent Crime rate:

 

US: 429 per 100,000

Canada: 1314 per 100,000

 

Newsmanx

 

My link

Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

 

Press reports that Canada is a Shangri-la – an America with free health care and less crime – may be short sighted.

 

In fact, statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the United States.

 

From the Daily

 

My link

 

Increases seen in many serious violent crimes

 

While overall violent crime remained stable, most serious violent crimes were on the rise,

 

From the free republic

My link

 

Violent-Crime Rate in Canada Double US; Rises Coincide with Gun Control

 

Of course, you are defending Canada needlessly. I like Canada and have always enjoyed my visits there.

As I and others have noted, comparing crime rates across different countries can be problematic. The U.N. analysis I cited appears to make a reasonable effort to address some of these concerns. The sources you cited...not as much.

 

One problem is that different countries define crimes differently. "Forcible rape" in the United States, for example, doesn't really compare with "sexual assault" in Canada.

 

The U.N. study defines rape as "sexual intercourse without valid consent." It then tries to match various countries crimes to that definition as best it can. It shows the 2008 U.S. rape rate at 28.6/100,000, which is a close match to the F.B.I.'s reported rate of 29.7 and notes that the U.S. figures don't include offenses perpetrated against males.

 

It shows the Canada rape rate at 1.5/100,000 and "includes sexual assault with a weapon and aggravated sexual assault that may or may not involve sexual intercourse." This closely matches Statistics Canada's combined rate of 1.5 for police-reported "sexual assault level 2" and "sexual assault level 3" crimes in 2008.

 

It's not a perfect comparison, but it might be as good as you're going to get with the available data.

 

Note that Canada has three levels of sexual assaults:

 

Sexual assault level 1 (s.271): An assault committed in circumstances of a sexual nature such that the sexual integrity of the victim is violated. Level 1 involves minor physical injuries or no injuries to the victim.

 

Sexual assault level 2 (s.272): Sexual assault with a weapon, threats, or causing bodily harm.

 

Aggravated sexual assault (level 3): Sexual assault that results in wounding, maiming, disfiguring or endangering the life of the victim.

Level 1 sexual assault includes incidents of unwanted sexual touching, grabbing, kissing, or fondling. While this is a serious crime, it doesn't match the conventional definition of rape. Yet the Nation Master statistics that you quoted appear to throw Canada's sexual assault level 1 crimes into their definition of rape. Combining the rates for sexual assault levels 1, 2, and 3 produces 64.1/100,000, which is within shouting distance of Nation Master's rate of 73.3. It's U.S. rate is 30.1, so Nation Master also might be using older data.

 

You also cite several sources that compare violent crime rates between the U.S. and Canada. These rates are very hard to compare for two reasons. First, as we just saw with rape, each individual type of crime can be defined differently by the two countries. Second, the definition of "violent crime" also differs.

 

Both country's definition of violent crime include robbery and all assaults. Canada's definition also includes all homicides (the U.S. includes only murder), attempted murder (excluded by the U.S.), all sexual assaults (the U.S. includes only forcible rape), and abduction (excluded by the U.S.).

 

That's why I listed individual violent crime rates instead of the incomparably grouped "violent crime" rate.

 

I don't expect this to convince you that the violent crime rate is higher in the U.S. than it is in Canada. But it might help clarify things for other people who are reading this thread.

[+Manville Possum]

I'm new to caching and I have been wondering how common it is for cachers to carry concealed weapons while caching, the ones that have a carry permit in their local of course. Am I alone out here?

 

New account, no hides, no finds, few posts. Post known hot topic in forum. No, you are not alone.

If he is new, then how would he be aware that this is a hot topic? I'm new too and I've been picking up things here and there. This is the first gun discussion I've seen since I started.

You have found and logged some caches. Sorry, but the OP has all the marks of a sock puppet account to me, but that's just my opinion. Also are you sure the OP is a He? Humm......

Edited March 29, 2011 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+roundnround we go]

 

I believe Florida has a concealed carry statute but open carry is illegal... weird huh?

 

But there is a push in Florida right now to legalize open carry. HB517 and SB234 are going to the House and Senate so hopefully things will change soon in Florida. Don't think I would OC in any urban areas but it would be nice to have the option while out in the woods

[+EagleRiver_Baileys]

I don't expect this to convince you that the violent crime rate is higher in the U.S. than it is in Canada. But it might help clarify things for other people who are reading this thread.

you are right you're not. I don't feel that strongly about it to be honest but if it's important to you, post on.

 

Like I said, I have nothing against Canada, I have always enjoyed my visits there. Well one time I was up there for a Jr A tourney and caught a nasty elbow to the jaw, behind the play(concussion, done for tourney)... I didn't enjoy that much. hehehe

[mresoteric]

the OP has all the marks of a sock puppet account to me, but that's just my opinion. Also are you sure the OP is a He? Humm......

I think I misunderstood what you were saying. And I just assumed it was a he because guns just seems like a guy topic to me.

 

I understand what NeecesandNephews is saying too about "hot topic" issue regardless of what forum you are on. But I have learned quite a bit from this topic. At least I've learned a few new vocabulary words.

[+John in Valley Forge]

Thanks for clearing up a lot of confusion for me. I just assumed if concealed weapons were permitted that open carry would be automatic. It almost seems a little backwards.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding the term printing very well either. Does that refer to how identifiable the weapon is through the clothes rather than just revealing the weapon by say your shirt getting pulled up over the weapon?

 

I know while out hiking, I tend to wipe sweat with my shirt. I will also unbutton my outer shirt if it's hot. I guess I would need to have some way of concealing in my pants or my ankle. But I guess the only real risk of damage to the weapon would be when you slip the banks of the lake or tumble down a steep incline.

 

That brings up another issue unrelated to the topic. If you take a tumble downhill, what is the risk of an accidental discharge?

I believe Florida has a concealed carry statute but open carry is illegal... weird huh?

 

As far as your scenario about tumbling down a hill goes, the odds of a Negligent or accidental discharge is either minute or impossible, depending on how/what you carry. You could get a ND from certain revolvers if you had the hammer down on a live cylinder, or perhaps a 1911 carried in condition 2. I say negligent rather than accidental because carrying said weapons this way is unwise and risking a ND.

 

ND?

Condition 2?

 

Yep that clears it up nicely.

[mresoteric]

Negligent or accidental discharge

 

ND?

Condition 2?

 

Yep that clears it up nicely.

Now I don't feel so bad for asking for definitions to terms.

 

I did figure out from context that ND is negligent discharge. But I don't know what condition 2 is either.

 

After I posted I think condition 2 is accidental discharge.

Edited March 29, 2011 by mresoteric

[Clan Riffster]

Condition 2?

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

It's a Jeff Cooper thing.

[+EagleRiver_Baileys]

Negligent or accidental discharge

 

ND?

Condition 2?

 

Yep that clears it up nicely.

Now I don't feel so bad for asking for definitions to terms.

 

I did figure out from context that ND is negligent discharge. But I don't know what condition 2 is either.

 

After I posted I think condition 2 is accidental discharge.

 

I'm sorry. I was distracted while typing the response. Yes, ND is negligent Discharge. Condition 2 refers to carrying a semi automatic handgun, typically a 1911 model, with a live round in the chamber and the hammer down. Some refer to carrying a revolver this way as condition 2 as well. Many guns have built in hammer blocks or hammer bars which prevent the hammer from forcing the firing pin into the primer of the live round(causing ND) but some do not, i.e. your typical model 1911. With a 1911 and many revolvers, if the hammer is down on a live chamber, simply striking the back of the hammer hard enough will cause an ND. This is why "condition 2" is considered the least desirable condition to carry a 1911 in.

[Keystone]

Let's steer away from crime statistics and legal definitions, and stick instead to the geocaching-related discussions. There have been some good points made, and it would be nice for those parts of the thread to continue.

[+CaveMountainBrewers]

My wife and I recently received our CCW permits for the state of New York where we live and have also recently became interested in geocaching. One of us will certainly be carrying while geocaching since 99 out of 100 caches in our area are rural areas and in the woods. Bears are a problem in the area...we've had them right outside our front door. The practicality of a weapon has no boundaries though, and when geocaching in a more "urban" area, we will just conceal a weapon that is best suited to the environment we will be in. For instance I carry a pocket .380 (S&W Bodyguard) for better concealability in well-populated areas, and the larger-caliber Taurus Judge in more rural areas for other potential threats.

 

Thanks to previous posters for the info on the Maxpedition and Blackhawk packs. I'm definitely getting one.

[+GeoGeeBee]

may have a gun on his person or in the geobag inside the mini van full of kids.

Heavens, I hope not! Leaving a weapon in reach of the rugrats is a very, very, very bad idea. Very bad.

[+Ecylram]

may have a gun on his person or in the geobag inside the mini van full of kids.

Heavens, I hope not! Leaving a weapon in reach of the rugrats is a very, very, very bad idea. Very bad.

 

Here, here. I can't believe I glossed over that statement and missed that. Nice catch.

[+sbell111]

may have a gun on his person or in the geobag inside the mini van full of kids.

Heavens, I hope not! Leaving a weapon in reach of the rugrats is a very, very, very bad idea. Very bad.

 

Here, here. I can't believe I glossed over that statement and missed that. Nice catch.

Judging from the pile of smilies that MPH used in his post, I'm pretty certain that this point was meant to be caught by all readers.

[+TXHooligans]

may have a gun on his person or in the geobag inside the mini van full of kids.

Heavens, I hope not! Leaving a weapon in reach of the rugrats is a very, very, very bad idea. Very bad.

 

some children are better shots than adults.. start them out early teach them well. an uneducated child with a gun is a definite no no.. no doubt.. an educated kid with a gun may be out hunting or maybe cleaning/maintaining his weapon. happens all the time. i was very young when i got my first gun. one of my most prized possessions. I've only bought a few more as an adult. Haven't carried one caching yet. if the area is dangerous.. i just stay away. those caches aren't as important as my families safety.

[LagerHead]

How is this a geocaching issue? This is a CCW issue. It isn't as though you are wondering if geocaching is dangerous, and should you get a weapon and a CCW license. You are simply looking to discuss weapons under a thin guise of geocaching, in my opinion.

 

And you are entitled to it. And entitled to share it. Nobody is wondering if geocaching is a particularly dangerous activity. For that matter neither is eating at a restaurant. Unless you happened to be in Luby's Cafeteria in Waco, TX on October 16, 1991. And going to high school isn't considered particularly dangerous. Except on April 20, 1999 at Columbine High. The fact is bad things happen to good people doing innocent things.

 

So a nearly year-old thread that turned into a gun debate gets resurrected and locked today and then a new thread pops up asking for little more than "me too" affirmations.

 

Awesome. Well, here's your gun thread. Let both sides be represented and all that.

 

I don't carry. I respect your right to carry but frankly I believe that there are more folks that carry for the wrong reasons and with little to no training or respect for the weapon. I'm more concerned that some somebody will fire a weapon for the wrong reasons at me than I am concerned enough to carry a weapon to protect me against bad guys, large mammals or zombie hoards.

 

I fully expect to be now told how I'm putting my family in danger and be labeled as a left-wing, socialist, pinko, tree hugging, PETA member. I'd point out that there is a shotgun in the house and every member of the family has been instructed in its use and has fired it on occasion at a target.

 

IBTL.

 

Haha. I don't want everybody to carry. I just don't want ANYBODY to second guess or lecture me on my decision for doing so. I think on this point you and most gun owners see eye to eye.

 

What do you mean by "print"?

Obviously I am not a gun carrier or I would know.

I think that means that it shows through your clothing.

 

I kinda guessed that. I wonder why "print"? I would think "fit"

I guess I watch too much "How do I look" and not enough "Sons of Guns" on TLC.

 

Nah. The guy on "Sons of Guns" thinks he's the only one smart enough to shoot a gun. He makes some pretty cool stuff but I wouldn't look to him for your normal every day gun owner kind of information.

 

Has anybody ever shot a cache out of a tree? And if so, how did you get it back up there?

 

I carry rockets everywhere I go so I can just shoot it back up in a tree.

 

Before this thread degenerates...

 

For those who carry while caching, what method of carry do you use to keep your weapon secure and not 'print'? As cachers we're reaching, bending over and even crawling under things. It's somewhat easier to conceal in the colder climes during winter, but summer is fast approaching.

 

What works for you?

 

I live in Tennessee so I don't have to worry about printing. Although I CC 99.999999% of the time I don't care if somebody gets a little glimpse.

 

For everyone that is getting their underwear in a bunch over this topic........DON'T CLICK ON THE THREAD!

Why would you say that? Did some of the comments cause you to get your underwear in a bunch?

 

I am one that has a problem with this thread. My issue, as I have already stated, is that you guys want to talk about guns, not geocaching. There are forums for talking about guns. I don't go there to talk about geocaching.

 

I do. I often talk about other aspects of my life on gun forums. Guns don't define me and neither does geocaching. At least not by themselves. But together they form pieces of the puzzle that is me. I also play drums but I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't poo poo all over this thread if he asked how many geocachers play drums. Being new here I could be wrong and I would be willing to concede if I am but I have been down this road so many times before that I doubt it.

 

Seriously, if you have that much of a problem with gun owners why would you submit yourself to the torture of reading this thread? We're not going to change. You're not going to change. The only thing accomplished is some people will increase their blood pressure by either championing the anti-gun cause or by championing the pro-gun cause. It's for this same reason I avoid like the plague any religious debates. They never end pretty.

 

Back to the OP: If I'm out of bed and not on my way to or from work, I'm probably carrying. My Kimber Ultra Carry II is my near constant companion. I currently have an OWB leather Don Hume holster but I have a guy making me an IWB holster.

 

I do have to worry about some of the city parks in TN though. Our state legislature allows carry in parks but gives city/county governments the ability to "opt out," creating a very lovely little patchwork of allowed and not allowed areas for you to navigate. So basically you have to know the law about every square inch in the state.

 

Oh, and IBTL too.

Edited March 29, 2011 by LagerHead

[+GeoGeeBee]

How is this a geocaching issue? This is a CCW issue. It isn't as though you are wondering if geocaching is dangerous, and should you get a weapon and a CCW license. You are simply looking to discuss weapons under a thin guise of geocaching, in my opinion.

 

And you are entitled to it. And entitled to share it. Nobody is wondering if geocaching is a particularly dangerous activity. For that matter neither is eating at a restaurant. Unless you happened to be in Luby's Cafeteria in Waco, TX on October 16, 1991. And going to high school isn't considered particularly dangerous. Except on April 20, 1999 at Columbine High. The fact is bad things happen to good people doing innocent things.

 

 

Actually, it appears that he is not entitled to share it, at least not here.

 

Are you suggesting that high school students would be safer if they were allowed to carry concealed weapons?

[+Ecylram]

How is this a geocaching issue? This is a CCW issue. It isn't as though you are wondering if geocaching is dangerous, and should you get a weapon and a CCW license. You are simply looking to discuss weapons under a thin guise of geocaching, in my opinion.

 

And you are entitled to it. And entitled to share it. Nobody is wondering if geocaching is a particularly dangerous activity. For that matter neither is eating at a restaurant. Unless you happened to be in Luby's Cafeteria in Waco, TX on October 16, 1991. And going to high school isn't considered particularly dangerous. Except on April 20, 1999 at Columbine High. The fact is bad things happen to good people doing innocent things.

 

 

Actually, it appears that he is not entitled to share it, at least not here.

 

Are you suggesting that high school students would be safer if they were allowed to carry concealed weapons?

 

I don't believe that is his point. His point is that bad things can happen in what is considered to be safe places.

 

Lets get back on topic, which is issues around CCW while geocaching. This is not a "Is CCW stupid/should be illegal" thread. Those discussions can happen in the "Off Topic" forum.

[LagerHead]

I don't believe that is his point. His point is that bad things can happen in what is considered to be safe places.

 

Lets get back on topic, which is issues around CCW while geocaching. This is not a "Is CCW stupid/should be illegal" thread. Those discussions can happen in the "Off Topic" forum.

 

Agreed. Sorry I helped to derail the thread. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

[+mountainman38]

...Are you suggesting that high school students would be safer if they were allowed to carry concealed weapons?

 

I certainly believe that teachers should be allowed to carry guns, given proper training. Schools are guaranteed to be completely defenseless hunting grounds for psychos, because no one is allowed to arm themselves. Mind boggling "logic".

[+3doxies]

I do have to worry about some of the city parks in TN though. Our state legislature allows carry in parks but gives city/county governments the ability to "opt out," creating a very lovely little patchwork of allowed and not allowed areas for you to navigate. So basically you have to know the law about every square inch in the state.

 

Oh, and IBTL too.

 

An extremely important point, this is...and not just for TN and its patchwork approach to carry-in-parks (which can heavily affect geocachers). You gotta take the time to know the laws relevant to weapon possession wherever you go if you are going to carry while there. The one "saving grace" with TN's local opt-out abomination is that, according to the letter of the law, any such park that is posted to prohibit lawful carry must have signage posted at all public entrances that contain specific language prescribed by law. I've learned to instinctly look for such signs any time we head off into a new park around here. To further clarify LagerHeads point: that option only exists for "local" parks (ie, owned by a city/county)...it does not apply to state parks, National Parks, or Wildlife Management Areas in the state.

 

LH - have I seen you over at TGO?

[LagerHead]

I do have to worry about some of the city parks in TN though. Our state legislature allows carry in parks but gives city/county governments the ability to "opt out," creating a very lovely little patchwork of allowed and not allowed areas for you to navigate. So basically you have to know the law about every square inch in the state.

 

Oh, and IBTL too.

 

An extremely important point, this is...and not just for TN and its patchwork approach to carry-in-parks (which can heavily affect geocachers). You gotta take the time to know the laws relevant to weapon possession wherever you go if you are going to carry while there. The one "saving grace" with TN's local opt-out abomination is that, according to the letter of the law, any such park that is posted to prohibit lawful carry must have signage posted at all public entrances that contain specific language prescribed by law. I've learned to instinctly look for such signs any time we head off into a new park around here. To further clarify LagerHeads point: that option only exists for "local" parks (ie, owned by a city/county)...it does not apply to state parks, National Parks, or Wildlife Management Areas in the state.

 

LH - have I seen you over at TGO?

 

Busted! Yes you have.

[+godenyen]

Being a police officer I carry everywhere I go. I usually also drive my police vehicle to find caches, helps getting FTFs since it keeps people away

 

I carry my firearm in a Maxpedition Verispack. It has a spot for the gun, which remains hidden from site. Plus, it has lots of space to put a gps, phone, and all sorts of gear. I even carry OC spray as a non-lethal choice and usually have a pair of handcuffs and a badge just in case I need to take action. My wife calls it my "man-purse" but it has been great for caching.

 

http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/Versipacks-c4.htm

[+Ecylram]

Being a police officer I carry everywhere I go. I usually also drive my police vehicle to find caches, helps getting FTFs since it keeps people away

 

I carry my firearm in a Maxpedition Verispack. It has a spot for the gun, which remains hidden from site. Plus, it has lots of space to put a gps, phone, and all sorts of gear. I even carry OC spray as a non-lethal choice and usually have a pair of handcuffs and a badge just in case I need to take action. My wife calls it my "man-purse" but it has been great for caching.

 

http://www.maxpediti...rsipacks-c4.htm

 

Thanks for the link, that looks like a good-sized geocaching bag.

[sick4x4]

Im new to caching so im not sure if my o pion on the subject matters but think the idea of being armed comes with it certain responsibilities...Unless you have drawn your firearm and the assaulter is outside the 21 ft protacal of effectively using your weapon does it matter much? I carry fulfilling my obligation of having a ccw but in close, as many cachers might find themselves a LLO like pepper spray or the like might be a more effective option but again having options is what it is all about anyway. I dont care either way but i also see many that do have ccw's, have an air about them that can be disturbing. you are taught with any good training to defuse, retreat and do everything in your power to make yourself (for a lack of a better word) a sissy and get away, yet i have seen many who do carry almost flaunt the fact they have a CW and act braver or chest popped out that to me invites confrontation instead of negate it. CC is not IMO courage in a bottle but a fulfillment of the 2nd amendment. The states where it most might be warranted dont even allow CC anyway, like where i grew up Los Angeles, calif. so yes carry if you need that added state of mind but not if you go out wanting to be made to use it.....just my 2cents

[+Ecylram]

Im new to caching so im not sure if my o pion on the subject matters but think the idea of being armed comes with it certain responsibilities...Unless you have drawn your firearm and the assaulter is outside the 21 ft protacal of effectively using your weapon does it matter much? I carry fulfilling my obligation of having a ccw but in close, as many cachers might find themselves a LLO like pepper spray or the like might be a more effective option but again having options is what it is all about anyway. I dont care either way but i also see many that do have ccw's, have an air about them that can be disturbing. you are taught with any good training to defuse, retreat and do everything in your power to make yourself (for a lack of a better word) a sissy and get away, yet i have seen many who do carry almost flaunt the fact they have a CW and act braver or chest popped out that to me invites confrontation instead of negate it. CC is not IMO courage in a bottle but a fulfillment of the 2nd amendment. The states where it most might be warranted dont even allow CC anyway, like where i grew up Los Angeles, calif. so yes carry if you need that added state of mind but not if you go out wanting to be made to use it.....just my 2cents

 

This is a thread for those wishing to discuss issues with carrying concealed. If you wish to discuss the practicality of CCW you can post your thoughts in the off-topic forum.

[+mountainman38]

Im new to caching so im not sure if my o pion on the subject matters but think the idea of being armed comes with it certain responsibilities...Unless you have drawn your firearm and the assaulter is outside the 21 ft protacal of effectively using your weapon does it matter much? I carry fulfilling my obligation of having a ccw but in close, as many cachers might find themselves a LLO like pepper spray or the like might be a more effective option but again having options is what it is all about anyway. I dont care either way but i also see many that do have ccw's, have an air about them that can be disturbing. you are taught with any good training to defuse, retreat and do everything in your power to make yourself (for a lack of a better word) a sissy and get away, yet i have seen many who do carry almost flaunt the fact they have a CW and act braver or chest popped out that to me invites confrontation instead of negate it. CC is not IMO courage in a bottle but a fulfillment of the 2nd amendment. The states where it most might be warranted dont even allow CC anyway, like where i grew up Los Angeles, calif. so yes carry if you need that added state of mind but not if you go out wanting to be made to use it.....just my 2cents

 

This is a thread for those wishing to discuss issues with carrying concealed. If you wish to discuss the practicality of CCW you can post your thoughts in the off-topic forum.

 

I found his comments quite pertinent to the subject of carrying concealed while caching.

 

Rather than tell posters where to put their comments, if you don't find it pertinent, don't respond.

 

This thread is doing a pretty good job of being an interesting source of discussion and give and take from a rather wide range of perspectives, which is a healthy thing.

 

I'd suggest you leave the moderating to the moderators.