This is WEAK

October 7, 2002

I read this on a travel bug log:

"Note from ********************:

Another virtual bug find thanks to the posted tracking number "

My opinion is that this is WEAK.

Please note that I deleted the name of the poster (no, the number of spaces is not correct.) I am not a namecaller.

This is weak BECAUSE:

1. The poster obviously did not find it the traditional way

2. Most of the time when a travel bug number is posted somewhere it is not done by the owner of the bug, but done by a Newbie finder, or by the media in a photo.

1.5k · October 7, 2002

Yeah - anyone that logs a travel bug without actually having it in-hand is a buttmonkey. Seriously, what kind of degenerate likes causing problems for bug owners like this?

A simple, fun game... with the occassional fartwad trying to screw it up for everyone else. People like them are no better than people who steal or vandalize caches if you ask me. A bunch of no good crotch-licking jerks.

That's about as family friendly as I can be... I think I maintained my composure pretty well. I think my mini-rant will be more accepted than my other idea. I was thinking that we could have a large cache container, perhaps an abandoned dumpster - that we could use for the disposal of body parts of any cache/bug thieves that we catch and dismember. That cache might have a difficult approval process.

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?

2.5k · October 9, 2002

I guess I'm guilty of that as well. I've logged a virtual bug find and then deleted it. I've done it twice so far, once as a find, and once as a note. after doing it I've deleted the post. In each case it remains on the MY CACHE PAGE. No harm done and I did not mess with mileage. To me, it's a virtual find and if I see more opportunities, I will do it again.

Whether you delete the post or not, it's still a find. I've quit moving travel bugs because no matter what you do, you end up getting emails from the owners that you are moving them to slow, or too fast, or in the wrong direction, or you are getting them to their goal too fast, etc. I like finding them this way, and if anyone has a problem with that, then they should attach a note to the bug telling the movers not to publicly post the numbers.

2.5k · October 9, 2002

I should note, that if you make a travel bug log and then delete it, it does not count on your travel bug count in your profile, it just lists that bug as a found on your own MY CACHE PAGE and nowhere else.

1.5k · October 9, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
...if anyone has a problem with that, then they should attach a note to the bug telling the movers not to publicly post the numbers.

You shouldn't have to tell people that. Common sense should tell someone that if you reveal the number to people, that there will probably be someone out there who will log that bug without actually having it.

What good is claiming that you "found" a bug if you haven't even seen it? Just falsely inflating another statistic to make yourself feel better? How is a "virtual" bug find any different from a "virtual" cache find? I can see the log now...

October 8 by Rubbertoe (14 found)You can [edit], [delete] or [permanently encrypt]this log entry.First cache of several that I went hunting for today.I didn't actually find this cache, but I saw a pictureof the cache location, so that is good enough for me.Woohoo!   My first find of the day and I never left my chair!

October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
To me, it's a virtual find and if I see more opportunities, I will do it again.

With that logic you should be logging every cache you hear about. You have the cache number, maybe see a picture or two - like Mr. RubberToe said - another virtual find!

Within the last week I saw someone post a pic of someone's bug and the pic included the TB #, and I also saw a cache log of someone saying "I found TB #" and in both cases I emailed them and pointed out that the # they posted could be used maliciously. In the first case the person said they never even thought about the TB # showing (they were just taking a pic of the bug), and the second case turned out to be a newbie making an innocent mistake. So, sometimes it's an accident, sometimes it's ignorance. I don't see the need to waste your time, make false claims, and punishing the bug owner for these things

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

What good is claiming that you "found" a bug if you haven't even seen it? Just falsely inflating another statistic to make yourself feel better? How is a "virtual" bug find any different from a "virtual" cache find? I can see the log now...

What possible difference could it make to you if I want to do this? If I post a note or a find to a travel bug that I found virtually online, and then delete it, it does not effect the true score of my find count, nor is there a record of it on the travel bug page, and I don't mess up the mileage because I don't claim to have moved the bug. Actually, there is no trace that this was done when I'm done, except for an email to anyone who was watching the bug.

The score of my cache finds and my bug finds still are accurate and my way of virtually finding a travel bug is transparent to everyone, and has no effect on the bug and it's mission. If I didn't mention it, no one would know.

Why do I do it? Because I want to and the system lets me. If common sense should tell someone not to post the number, then your are assuming that everyone playing the game uses common sense. There's your problem, you made the wrong assumption.

To answer your question about how it differs from an actual cache... it is not a cache, but a bug.

I don't hold travel bugs in high regard as others may, as a matter of fact, I've vowed not to move any more when I find them. I'll write down the number and log them, but they will stay put. Are you going to say now that it is not a find because I didn't move it? Then change the rules if you don't like it. You play the bug game your way, I'll play the bug game my way, like I said, there is no harm done, and all of the scores remain accurate. If you don't want virtual bug finds on your travel bug, then post it on the page. That's where you get to make up the rules for the bug. I'll honor your rules. Don't blame me because you forgot to post this on your page, it's your mistake, not mine. People use bugs for whatever reason they want, some never let them go out in the wild at all, they just use them to track their own movements. Quoting the travel bug page:

quote:
Q. What does a Travel Bug do?

A. It's really up to the owner of the bug to give it whatever task they desire. Or no task at all. The fun of a travel bug is inventing new ideas or goals for the Travel Bug to achieve. One Bug's goal may be to reach a specific country, or travel to 10 countries.

Maybe instead of judging me on how I have my fun, you should concentrate on having your own, instead of making up new rules after the fact.

1.7k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

What good is claiming that you "found" a bug if you haven't even seen it? Just falsely inflating another statistic to make yourself feel better? How is a "virtual" bug find any different from a "virtual" cache find? I can see the log now...

What possible difference could it make to you if I want to do this? If I post a note or a find to a travel bug that I found virtually online, and then delete it, it does not effect the true score of my find count, nor is there a record of it on the travel bug page, and I don't mess up the mileage because I don't claim to have moved the bug. Actually, there is no trace that this was done when I'm done, except for an email to anyone who was watching the bug.

How do you do this without "virtually" removing the bug from the cache it was in? Sure, if you actually saw it in the cache you can log it out and then right back in again with your log for that cache, but if you got the number from a picture or a log entry, you can't log it back into the cache without also logging a "virtual" find for the cache.

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

How do you do this without "virtually" removing the bug from the cache it was in? Sure, if you actually saw it in the cache you can log it out and then right back in again with your log for that cache, but if you got the number from a picture or a log entry, you can't log it back into the cache without also logging a "virtual" find for the cache.

Just posting a note on the travel bug page and then deleting it will list the bug on your MY CACHE PAGE, but will not affect the score of your actual "real" bug finds or the mileage.

Also, if you do log it out as a find and then log it back in to the same cache, and then delete both logs,it will list the bug on your MY CACHE PAGE, but will not affect the score of your actual "real" bug finds or the mileage.

2.5k · October 10, 2002

Just found another, make that 3 virtual bug finds.

October 10, 2002

I guess if it doesn't affect the bug's milage I don't have a that much of a problem with it. Still sounds silly though.

Do you keep track of all numbers that you see as you go about the day?

6.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
Just found another, make that 3 virtual bug finds.

can you remind me why your watching all these virtual bugs??

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by welch:

can you remind me why your watching all these virtual bugs??

I'm not watching any travel bugs.

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Egnix:
I guess if it doesn't affect the bug's milage I don't have a that much of a problem with it. Still sounds silly though.

Do you keep track of all numbers that you see as you go about the day?

I don't keep track, if I log a virtual find then it's a spur of the moment thing, sometimes I do it and sometimes I don't. I've passed on plenty of opportunities. I'll log them if I want to have some fun.

1.4k · October 10, 2002

'nuf said.

---Real men cache in shorts.

October 10, 2002

I just wish that people who take the travel bugs would report them taken and then move them on to the next cache. To many are just being kept.

1.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Egnix:
I guess if it doesn't affect the bug's milage I don't have a that much of a problem with it. Still sounds silly though.

Do you keep track of all numbers that you see as you go about the day?

*laugh* Yeah - as long as what he is doing doesn't affect mileage of peoples' bugs, I don't have a problem with it. I don't think it makes sense, and I think it is silly - but I don't have a problem with it.

If someone goes to a cache but doesn't wanna move the bug from it - fine, log the bug - just don't mess up the mileage on it. But seeing a bug's number online and claiming it as a find seems goofy to me.

quote:
Originally posted by cashew nut:
Why do I do it? Because I want to and the system lets me. If common sense should tell someone not to post the number, then your are assuming that everyone playing the game uses common sense. There's your problem, you made the wrong assumption.

Umm... are you referring to yourself with that remark? And, heh, I'm hardly one to ever assume that a geocacher has common sense. I've got detailed instructions on all of my bugs, because I DON'T assume most people will know what to do with it. And, I know that you do it because "you want to" - obviously you wouldn't do it if you didn't want to. What I was asking was, WHY do you want to do that? I'm genuinely curious what reason you have for doing that, other than "because you can."

quote:
Originally posted by cashew nut:
If you don't want virtual bug finds on your travel bug, then post it on the page. That's where you get to make up the rules for the bug. I'll honor your rules. Don't blame me because you forgot to post this on your page, it's your mistake, not mine.

Perhaps I should also put a note on my travel bug pages telling people not to stick them up their *** as well? I wouldn't want people to assume that I think it is okay for them to do that, so I better put directions forbidding it on my pages, eh?

*laugh* Do what ya want, pal... as long as it doesn't dork up the accuracy of a bug's travels - like you said, it doesn't matter.

quote:
Originally posted by cashew nut:
I don't keep track, if I log a virtual find then it's a spur of the moment thing, sometimes I do it and sometimes I don't. I've passed on plenty of opportunities. I'll log them if I want to have some fun.

Finding numbers online and logging them as finds is your idea of fun? *laugh* I think I have to agree with Nurse Dave and Lkay here.

-=<- The Toe Pages ->==--

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:
I'm genuinely curious what reason you have for doing that, other than "because you can."

Perhaps I was bored, what does it matter? One good thing that has come out of it is that on two of the three I have found, the number has been removed from the logs. Perhaps it is because the bug owner received my log in the email and took steps to correct the problems. Better me finding them my way, then someone else taking the bug for a "joy ride"

quote:
Finding numbers online and logging them as finds is your idea of fun? *laugh* I think I have to agree with Nurse Dave and Lkay here.

I'll be keeping my eyes open for one of yours. I'd be happy to show it a good time.

October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:
Perhaps I should also put a note on my travel bug pages telling people not to stick them up their *** as well? I wouldn't want people to assume that I think it is okay for them to do that, so I better put directions forbidding it on my pages, eh?

My thoughts exactly.

'course there are those people who need coffee cup labels that say "warning: contents hot"...

October 10, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

Perhaps I should also put a note on my travel bug pages telling people not to stick them up their *** as well? I wouldn't want people to assume that I think it is okay for them to do that, so I better put directions forbidding it on my pages, eh?

quoted reply by cachew nut:

I'll be keeping my eyes open for one of yours. I'd be happy to show it a good time.

DON'T THINK I'LL BE SETTING ANY TRAVEL GERBILS LOOSE JUST YET!

[This message was edited by Sledgehampster on October 11, 2002 at 10:09 AM.]

3k · October 10, 2002

neener neener neener, we found ourselves a cheater. Really now. If you don't even see the bug in person (in Bug), it's not a find. How ridiculous is that? You'd be logging bugs from Budapest without ever leaving your living room. I vote not allowed!

Cache you later,

Planet

38.2k · October 10, 2002

quote:
If you don't even see the bug in person (in Bug), it's not a find.

Anyone who would do that is pretty pathetic. It's no different from logging caches that you haven't been to. It also reminds me of the Geocacher who was falsely grafting photos of his GPS onto "locationless" cache photos so he could log them.

Goes to show you that people will cheat at nearly anything. Kind of sad. I do feel sorry for these people. They really don't have much of a life.

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

1.4k · October 10, 2002

The saddest part of all this isn't somebody messing with other people's T.B.s, but the general "screw you" attitude being thrown to all other geocachers. It's one thing to not agree with an opinion or view, but cachew nut seems to not really care about anyone else in general. At least that's the feeling I'm getting.

If you generally wanted people just to fix posted numbers, you would just send an email.

---Real men cache in shorts.

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Planet:
Really now. If you don't even see the bug in person (in Bug), it's not a find.

Exactly, and that is why it's not reflected in the "travel bugs found" count. How is it cheating if I'm not claiming it as a find? Of the travel bugs that show up in my found count, all of them were in my hands. So neener to you too.

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:

If you generally wanted people just to fix posted numbers, you would just send an email.

I never said I wanted people to fix posted numbers.

2.5k · October 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sledgehampster:
quote:

Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

Perhaps I should also put a note on my travel bug pages telling people not to stick them up their *** as well? I wouldn't want people to assume that I think it is okay for them to do that, so I better put directions forbidding it on my pages, eh?

quoted reply by cachew nut:

I'll be keeping my eyes open for one of yours. I'd be happy to show it a good time.

For the record, you are quoting me out of context with your creative editing, but it's hilarious

October 11, 2002

I Have contacted cachew nut about my "loose" translation of his post and he said

"For the record, you are quoting me out of context with your creative editing, but it's hilarious."

Just trying to lighten up a thread that I felt was getting a little heated. NO HARM INTENDED TO ANYONE!

2.5k · October 11, 2002

quote:
From the FAQ:

Are there any variations in the game?

YES! We strongly encourage it, actually. Geocaching is a game that constantly reinvents itself, and the rules are very flexible. If you have a new idea on how to place a cache, or a new game using GPS units, we'd love to hear about it.

quote:
From http://www.webopedia.com/

Virtual:

Not real. The term virtual is popular among computer scientists and is used in a wide variety of situations. In general, it distinguishes something that is merely conceptual from something that has physical reality. For example, virtual memory refers to an imaginary set of locations, or addresses, where you can store data. It is imaginary in the sense that the memory area is not the same as the real physical memory composed of transistors. The difference is a bit like the difference between an architect's plans for a house and the actual house. A computer scientist might call the plans a virtual house. Another analogy is the difference between the brain and the mind. The mind is a virtual brain. It exists conceptually, but the actual physical matter is the brain.

quote:
From the travel bug pages:

If you found a bug, here's what you need to do:

1. Log this item with a "Found it? Log it!" by clicking on the text link in the upper right hand corner of the Travel Bug's page.

2. When you log it, make sure to enter in the number of the Travel Bug, AND mark a checkbox beside the bug you're logging! If not the log will *not* be updated.

3. Once you claim the travel bug, it goes into your online "inventory." That basically means the next time you log a cache find, you'll have an option to select an item from a list of items that you have to place in the cache.

Based on the above, by logging a virtual travel bug find, I am playing a variation of the game. It hurts no one and leaves no trace. If I hadn't mentioned it, no one would even know it happened. Since the virtual find is not real, and no evidence is left, including no credit for a find, and it's not in my inventory, and the mileage hasn't changed, and there are no logs of it, it's as if it did not happen. It's not real. Why anyone would get all bent out of shape about something that isn't real is beyond me.

I'm a paying member on this website, which allows me to play my variation of the game my way. I haven't seen any rules that prohibit me from doing so, in fact it's encouraged. I've played the game by the rules, and all of my counted logs are real. My unreal finds are not counted; they don't exist. I think it's pretty bold of people to criticize the way I play the game, and start making up their own rules when they see someone is being innovative. If you want your rules to be the website rules, then first pay your membership dues. Then make a proposal, or start a poll and get your rules voted in. At this point there is no rule that says I have to hold a travel bug in my hand, that is just an opinion which I don't share. Don't judge me by what your opinion of a rule should be since I'm not playing by the same rules you are.

October 11, 2002

HA!!

1.1k · October 11, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
Since the virtual find is not real, and no evidence is left, including no credit for a find, and it's not in my inventory, and the mileage hasn't changed, and there are no logs of it, it's as if it did not happen. It's not real.

I go with cachew nut. This is a victimless "crime." My real concern would be someone fudging the mileage. That would be pretty jerky, and I would label them a "buttmonkey" for doing so.

quote:
I'm a paying member on this website, which allows me to play my variation of the game my way.

I'd be careful on this point. Someone in the past felt they could advertise in the forums and the web site because they felt it was their right as a subscribing member. But I do agree that there is a lot of flexibility in the site. We want to encourage orginality and creativity, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. In this specific case it seems like it does not cross that line.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

2.5k · October 11, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

quote:
I'm a paying member on this website, which allows me to play my variation of the game my way.

I'd be careful on this point. Someone in the past felt they could advertise in the forums and the web site because they felt it was their right as a subscribing member. But I do agree that there is a lot of flexibility in the site. We want to encourage orginality and creativity, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. In this specific case it seems like it does not cross that line.

Thanks Jeremy,

I know where that line is and I'm sure you know that I do too, but I don't mind you pointing it out. I simply meant that I'm trying to get the maximum entertainment for my membership dollar

This is WEAK

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