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Jeremy

Considering Tagless Bugs...

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if you write the number in a public place(the log, or putting the number on the cache page) some jerk can come and log all the bugs as being in his/her hands, even if they have never seen the thing. this can really mess things up. the mileage gets of, as the bug is still back where it's always been while this person that stole it can be jacking the bug from cache to cache for the fun of causing problems....

morseman recently pointed this out at:

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=8080979883&m=7240962035

 

but i would point out, i dont see how this has anything to do with if tagless bugs are a good idea or not.

 

whack.gif

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I dissagree, keep it the way it is and keep it simple. Sure, I understand how tagless bugs would work, but I think it would just confuse the Rookies(who are usually the cause of Travel Bug troubles). Good idea, but from a practial standpoint, I have my doubts. Besides, what's a couple of bucks for a tag when:

1. More assurance it won't get lost

2. Helps Groundspeak keep this site going($$)

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Don't hunt them.

 

I'd love tagless bugs. I'm not keen on jumping through all the hoops I'd have to to get a bug from the US, or paying the local merchant's profit margin on top of Jeremy's, to get a traditional bug. So a bug that I can order over the internet for the same price anywhere in the world sounds great.

 

A the moment, I have an idea for a bug, but I'm not releasing it. The choice is not between a small amount of money for the site and a larger amount of money - it's about any money verses none.

 

evilrooster

-the email of the species is deadlier than the mail-

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you think that a bug with a metal tag is less likely to go MIA, than one with a tag made of another material?

 

quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

I dissagree, keep it the way it is and keep it simple. Sure, I understand how tagless bugs would work, but I think it would just confuse the Rookies(who are usually the cause of Travel Bug troubles). Good idea, but from a practial standpoint, I have my doubts. Besides, what's a couple of bucks for a tag when:

1. More assurance it won't get lost

2. Helps Groundspeak keep this site going($$)


 

whack.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by welch:

you think that a bug with a metal tag is less likely to go MIA, than one with a tag made of another material?


 

I'm kinda under the impression that if someone is gonna swipe a bug, they'll do it whether it has a metal tag or not. The people that don't make their 'tagless' bug very noticable as being a travel bug, it is their own fault if it is overlooked. Hopefully common sense would tell these people to make it very obvious that their item is a bug.

 

As for the tags making money for the site... I bet that the 'virtual' tags for $2 a piece would bring in approximately the same amount of profit for the site as do the dog tags - and I bet that many more would be sold because of the reduced price.

 

It'd be like $2 bills falling from the sky and into their laps, for Jeremy and the folks that run the site.

 

(It isn't just him, is it?)

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

 

(It isn't just him, is it?)

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--


 

no, or at least i always thought there was more than one admin for the site...

whack.gif

 

[This message was edited by welch on August 24, 2002 at 07:41 AM.]

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Huh? A tagless bug would have a tag made out of....nothing. So I guess the answer to your question would be, "Yes?". WTF?

 

quote:
Originally posted by welch:

you think that a bug with a metal tag is less likely to go MIA, than one with a tag made of another material?

 

quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

I dissagree, keep it the way it is and keep it simple. Sure, I understand how tagless bugs would work, but I think it would just confuse the Rookies(who are usually the cause of Travel Bug troubles). Good idea, but from a practial standpoint, I have my doubts. Besides, what's a couple of bucks for a tag when:

1. More assurance it won't get lost

2. Helps Groundspeak keep this site going($$)


 

http://www.scubaboard.com/images/smilies/whack.gif


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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

Huh? A tagless bug would have a tag made out of....nothing. So I guess the answer to your question would be, "Yes?". WTF?


 

When Jeremy says "tagless" it just means that the tracking number won't be printed on a pair of dogtags for you - instead, it will be e-mailed to you in the form of a PDF that you can print and attach to your bug.

 

"Tagless Bug" probably wasn't the best term for this, as some people seem to think this means setting loose an item with no identification as a bug at all, which isn't the case. You just have to print/make it yourself.

 

I notice in another thread, you said that you hate travel bugs and you discourage their use. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with yours - but don't let that make you bitter towards the whole idea of them for others. icon_smile.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

Huh? A tagless bug would have a tag made out of....nothing. So I guess the answer to your question would be, "Yes?". WTF?


 

When Jeremy says "tagless" it just means that the tracking number won't be printed on a pair of dogtags for you - instead, it will be e-mailed to you in the form of a PDF that you can print and attach to your bug.

 

"Tagless Bug" probably wasn't the best term for this, as some people seem to think this means setting loose an item with no identification as a bug at all, which isn't the case. You just have to print/make it yourself.

 

I notice in another thread, you said that you hate travel bugs and you discourage their use. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with yours - but don't let that make you bitter towards the whole idea of them for others. icon_smile.gif

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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$2 is a far amount to keep the website running and pay for some server time.

 

I say the PDF you get will have the serial numbers on the 'virtual travel bug'. The photo would just be a photo of a blank travel bug tag as it looks now, but will have a serial number superimposed on it.

 

That way the new owner can just print out the tag!

 

2 cents,

Paboo icon_biggrin.gif

 

[This message was edited by Paboo on August 21, 2002 at 12:52 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by Paboo on August 21, 2002 at 12:53 PM.]

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$2 is a far amount to keep the website running and pay for some server time.

 

I say the PDF you get will have the serial numbers on the 'virtual travel bug'. The photo would just be a photo of a blank travel bug tag as it looks now, but will have a serial number superimposed on it.

 

That way the new owner can just print out the tag!

 

2 cents,

Paboo icon_biggrin.gif

 

[This message was edited by Paboo on August 21, 2002 at 12:52 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by Paboo on August 21, 2002 at 12:53 PM.]

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Hello to all,

 

quote:
What are your thoughts on tagless bugs?

 

I think this is one of the best ideas ever posted since it combines any Tag/Coin/etc. options. Who likes to have a tag can create his own and supply it with the number received or perhaps even the other way round to get a number specified by the user in case it's still vacant.

 

However, why should't it be free ? icon_biggrin.gif Creating an own virtual bug could be as easy as hiding a new cache. As an intermediate aproach one can also defind traveling caches like e.g. Secret Agent Roo.

 

Ciao,

 

James

 

If privacy is outlawed only outlaws will have privacy !

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Hello to all,

 

quote:
What are your thoughts on tagless bugs?

 

I think this is one of the best ideas ever posted since it combines any Tag/Coin/etc. options. Who likes to have a tag can create his own and supply it with the number received or perhaps even the other way round to get a number specified by the user in case it's still vacant.

 

However, why should't it be free ? icon_biggrin.gif Creating an own virtual bug could be as easy as hiding a new cache. As an intermediate aproach one can also defind traveling caches like e.g. Secret Agent Roo.

 

Ciao,

 

James

 

If privacy is outlawed only outlaws will have privacy !

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If it was free, everyone would be doing it - and it'd flood the caches (and the servers) with massive amounts of bugs.

 

Having a cost for the number, although reduced from the dogtag style tracking number costs, will allow more people to use them - but hopefully not so many that bugs will lose their unique quality.

 

Plus, even at $2 a pop, I bet the increased bug-load will stress the servers from time to time. More tracking, more maps, more images, more logs. That's a lot to ask for free. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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If it was free, everyone would be doing it - and it'd flood the caches (and the servers) with massive amounts of bugs.

 

Having a cost for the number, although reduced from the dogtag style tracking number costs, will allow more people to use them - but hopefully not so many that bugs will lose their unique quality.

 

Plus, even at $2 a pop, I bet the increased bug-load will stress the servers from time to time. More tracking, more maps, more images, more logs. That's a lot to ask for free. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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I'm on the side of the fence that votes to keep the serial number embossed metal tags.

 

Yes - there is a cost involved, and there is a wait time to get the tag, but there is the benefit of standardization. They all look alike for easy identification, and the numbers are all readable - these are two things that are likely to be a problem with "homemade" bugs.

 

Furthermore, the metal travel bugs are impervious to adverse conditions. What's going to happen to the inkjet printed PDF thing that someone puts in a tattered Ziploc bag after travelling 1500 miles over a six month period when it gets wet sitting in a leaky Tupperware cache in the rain?

 

My vote: keep the metal tags.

 

EDR

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Ya know - I have to agree with everything you said in your post. I'm still leaning towards the side of going ahead and making the non-dogtag tracking numbers available, but you did make some good points.

 

I guess I just assume the people buying the cheaper tags will have enough common sense to laminate or somehow otherwise weatherproof them. But the more that I think about it, the more I realize that people might not do that - and they'll probably end up in the forums whining about it. icon_biggrin.gif

 

My attitude is "well, if they didn't protect their tag, it's their own dern fault." I guess I just have a hard time feeling sorry for people who suffering as a result of their own ignorance. That isn't directed at anyone in particular... I'm just sayin' icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by erobbins:

I'm on the side of the fence that votes to keep the serial number embossed metal tags.

 

Yes - there is a cost involved, and there is a wait time to get the tag, but there is the benefit of standardization. They all look alike for easy identification, and the numbers are all readable - these are two things that are likely to be a problem with "homemade" bugs.

 

Furthermore, the metal travel bugs are impervious to adverse conditions. What's going to happen to the inkjet printed PDF thing that someone puts in a tattered Ziploc bag after travelling 1500 miles over a six month period when it gets wet sitting in a leaky Tupperware cache in the rain?

 

My vote: keep the metal tags.

 

EDR


 

- Toe.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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Ya know - I have to agree with everything you said in your post. I'm still leaning towards the side of going ahead and making the non-dogtag tracking numbers available, but you did make some good points.

 

I guess I just assume the people buying the cheaper tags will have enough common sense to laminate or somehow otherwise weatherproof them. But the more that I think about it, the more I realize that people might not do that - and they'll probably end up in the forums whining about it. icon_biggrin.gif

 

My attitude is "well, if they didn't protect their tag, it's their own dern fault." I guess I just have a hard time feeling sorry for people who suffering as a result of their own ignorance. That isn't directed at anyone in particular... I'm just sayin' icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by erobbins:

I'm on the side of the fence that votes to keep the serial number embossed metal tags.

 

Yes - there is a cost involved, and there is a wait time to get the tag, but there is the benefit of standardization. They all look alike for easy identification, and the numbers are all readable - these are two things that are likely to be a problem with "homemade" bugs.

 

Furthermore, the metal travel bugs are impervious to adverse conditions. What's going to happen to the inkjet printed PDF thing that someone puts in a tattered Ziploc bag after travelling 1500 miles over a six month period when it gets wet sitting in a leaky Tupperware cache in the rain?

 

My vote: keep the metal tags.

 

EDR


 

- Toe.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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"My travel bug is lost..."

 

Did it have a metal tag?

 

"No... I printed out my own."

 

How did you attach to your item?

 

"I used a string and tied the tag to the item"

 

Did you make sure the tag wouldn't rip?

 

"Maybe it did, it was just paper after all."

 

Didn't you laminate it or encase it in tape or something - to make it stronger?

 

"No. I don't own a laminating machine. If I would have known that I'd have to do stuff like that to the tag, I wouldn't have wasted my money."

 

Umm. You don't need to actually laminate it, just wrap it up in that wide clear tape or something.

 

"I don't have that kind of tape either. Besides, that sounds like a lot of work."

 

"*sigh* dadgum. I can't believe someone lost my bug."

 

Uhhh...

 

- Toe.

 

--==< http://home.columbus.rr.com/rubbertoe >==--

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I like the idea. Like someone else said previously, it is "instant". Right now travel bug tags are in short supply. This isn't a case of "no tag", but simply a "print it yourself" tag.

 

While I really like the metal tags, and would want them to continue to be available, I think a "print it yourself" option would be great.

 

I, for one, would print instructions and the "bug's story" on a laminated tag, along with the requisite numbers and info. I already put a tag on them with the "story and travel instructions", so all it adds is the info currently on the metal tag.

 

Also, I like that it would allow launching a bug without waiting for a tag to arrive by snail-mail or UPS.

 

There could be some PDF templates and downloadable bug-graphic to insure consistency perhaps.

 

Just seems like a good option to me.

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After reading all the thoughts on this, perhaps a better topic heading for this would have been "print-it-yourself tags" than "tagless bugs".

 

I forgot to point out that I know a bunch of people who launch "where's george" bills simply because they don't want to mess with ordering the tags and waiting for them to arrive, etc. (Are we an instant gratification society or what...)

 

I think the DIY-tags would address that group of people as well. Just seems worth a try to me. After all, a traveler with a good story is certainly more fun than a $1 bill, and you don't have to worry about somebody spending it.

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I would love it! I'm a Scout Leader (both girl and boy) and everyone want's a bug to release and needless to say with 32 total bugs it could get pricey! I don't mind paying the up keep for the website at all! icon_biggrin.gif

 

However, the only drawback I can see it that everyone knows what the current bugs look like, they are easy to find and recognise. So maybe a downloadable "bug" icon/gif would be nice.

 

Just my own humble opinion icon_wink.gif!

Cheers!

Star Scout

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I would love it! I'm a Scout Leader (both girl and boy) and everyone want's a bug to release and needless to say with 32 total bugs it could get pricey! I don't mind paying the up keep for the website at all! icon_biggrin.gif

 

However, the only drawback I can see it that everyone knows what the current bugs look like, they are easy to find and recognise. So maybe a downloadable "bug" icon/gif would be nice.

 

Just my own humble opinion icon_wink.gif!

Cheers!

Star Scout

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quote:
Originally posted by erobbins:

Yes - there is a cost involved, and there is a wait time to get the tag, but there is the benefit of standardization. They all look alike for easy identification, and the numbers are all readable - these are two things that are likely to be a problem with "homemade" bugs.


 

Since some people already have difficulty understanding the travel bug concept, aren't we asking for trouble by relinquishing some standardization?

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For folks who haven't seen it mentioned in other threads, there is a site called BookCrossing that enables you to put tracking numbers on books, to track their journey just like a travel bug or wheresgeorge dollar.

 

I'm a bit hesitant in mentioning the URL here, as I don't want to look like I'm trying to direct any traffic away from this site... I probably won't mention it after this, since it kinda is almost like a free travel bug, as long as you don't mind that your bug HAS to be a book. icon_smile.gif

 

BookCrossing appears to be attempting to make some money on their site by getting sales referrals from various book sites - on every book that is being tracked, there are several links so that you can actually buy that same book online.

 

- Toe.

 

toe.gif

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For folks who haven't seen it mentioned in other threads, there is a site called BookCrossing that enables you to put tracking numbers on books, to track their journey just like a travel bug or wheresgeorge dollar.

 

I'm a bit hesitant in mentioning the URL here, as I don't want to look like I'm trying to direct any traffic away from this site... I probably won't mention it after this, since it kinda is almost like a free travel bug, as long as you don't mind that your bug HAS to be a book. icon_smile.gif

 

BookCrossing appears to be attempting to make some money on their site by getting sales referrals from various book sites - on every book that is being tracked, there are several links so that you can actually buy that same book online.

 

- Toe.

 

toe.gif

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I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't like the idea. It seems that the concept of a

travel bug is confusing enough to some people. Just look in this Travel Bug forum for evidence of that.

 

What's going to happen when they start showing up in a variety of forms and formats? I agree that the idea opens things up to a world of new types of travel bugs. But I see that as a negative that will only create more confusion among a certain segment of the Geocaching population.

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I say it's a good idea. I love the tags as a representation of the game. However, I'd like to have a TB that tracks my own milage (as many others have) this would be perfect for something like that. Or, you could simply add that feature to the site... Charter Members of course :-)

 

God was my co-pilot but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.

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If I burn a CD with pictures, notes, software, music or whatever, wouldn't that make a durable, fun type of bug to transfer around? At about 5 pennys each it certainly is cost efective. Your thoughts?

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I like the idea of being able to get Bug IDs online and right away - not sure about the PDF thing though. Might it not be simpler to request an ID, give a credit card number, and just get a number emailed to you? Then you could attach it however you liked - and the people who tie a printout to the bug with a bit of string and then complain that it gets lost have only themselves to blame.

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A tagless bug might be hard to identify as a bug. If it just looks like a toy I'm leaving it in the cache. I don't print all the previous logs on the cache page (unless it's a really difficult one) so I wouldn't know a tagless bug from a McToy unless I had the logs with me. And I certainly can't remember what each log said if I did read them before the hunt.

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

A "Printable Travel Bug Tag" appears to be a de-evolution of the metal travel bug. I think we need something to make them better.


Making them cheaper, and quicker to receive... that seems "better" to me. Besides, just because you can print the tracking number out on paper, it doesn't mean you have to do that. You can engrave it, use permanent marker, embroider it, whatever you want. I still think it is a pretty good idea... although, apparently moved to a back burner. icon_smile.gif

 

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The NEW Toe Pages

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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

Huh? A tagless bug would have a tag made out of....


 

Anything you want to make it out of.

 

quote:
1. More assurance it won't get lost
I can't think of a way to assure a TB wont go MIA. Well, not releasing a them icon_rolleyes.gif, but whats the point in that?

 

quote:
2. Helps Groundspeak keep this site going($$)
Jeremy wasnt planning on giving them away. There will still be a cost, a cost to "keep this site going". Maybe im wrong but

i think it would be easier for Groundspeak to make money if they did not have to stock these the metal tags. People send them money, and bam they send back some serial numbers.

 

whack.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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Being that my full time gig is being an auditor, I usually end up thinking how someone can abuse a system. If the download is just some type of graphic file and I wanted to be mischevious, couldn't I use Photoshop to duplicate the number of a tag a pretty much make an exact copy? Great for replacing a bug of mine that went MIA, but I could really mess with someone elses bug by making 3 or 4 copies of the bug and releasing them also. The current dog tags are not easily reproducable, and therefore offers some level of security.

 

Chris

 

"We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg."

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They wouldnt be tagless, they just would not be metal tags. I would start a lot more if the cost were lower. Heck , we can go online and print out postage now, isnt that stampless stamps.... why not TB registrations codes.

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I've released my first Travel Bug without a tag. I just wrote the number on the back of the bug. This bug is a plastic bookmark that I want people to use (and then share what they've read) before they send on its way. Thus it seems ideal for this because it has a flat surface to write the number on, and the tag would get in the way when using it as a bookmark. I will share any significant comments I receive here.

icon_biggrin.gif

 

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step . . . and then I get in my truck and drive the rest of the way.

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I vote no on tagless bugs.

 

I think it would increase the number of lost bugs because they wouldn't be as noticable without the distinctive dog tag. People would think they were just another cache goodie. Yes, you can say, "print out directions, attach a sheet, make it noticable," but people won't always do that.

 

I think having only tracking numbers will just make it more confusing for some people. It's easier to forget about travel bugs if it's just some number glued to the back of an action figure.

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I don't like the tagless bug idea.

 

According to the law of supply & demand, scarcity creates value.

 

I like the ratio of bugs to caches right now. Travel bugs are special. Making cheap tags at $2 a pop would create a lot more travel bugs. Not only would there be too many bugs to make them special, but many would look pretty ugly with a home made tag. I really enjoy the professional looking metal dog tags. This standard format gives the TB's a sense of authenticity and respectability.

 

I vote a hearty "No!" on the tagless TB idea.

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I've read all the posts and it makes sense to keep the tags for uniformity purposes. I'm prior military and the army must have used dog tags for a good reason--durable and easy to read in any conditions.

 

fallouteyes.jpg

------> BUGOUT to avoid the FALLOUT ------>

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quote:
Originally posted by Uptonhouse:

Keep the Dog Tags


I think Jeremy was going to keep selling the "old" style tags...

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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What I meant to say is...just stay with the "Old Style" and don't branch out into anything else.

 

fallouteyes.jpg

------> BUGOUT to avoid the FALLOUT ------>

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quote:
Originally posted by wreckdiver:

I really like having the tag - it's fun to find them in a cache!


Out of the whole idea of travel bugs and the tracking process...

you think the TAG is the actual reason for the fun? icon_confused.gif

 

Personally, I'd rather see all the unique ways that people would label their bugs, and include the tracking number. You could have items with engravings, cloth based bugs with numbers embroidered onto them, custom made shrinky-dink type tags attached to stuff... I dunno, it just sounds like a neat way for people to be creative.

quote:
Originally posted by Bumbling Bee:

I think it would increase the number of lost bugs because they wouldn't be as noticable without the distinctive dog tag. People would think they were just another cache goodie. Yes, you can say, "print out directions, attach a sheet, make it noticable," but people won't always do that.


Well, shouldn't the owner of the bug worry about that? You can't baby everyone, just because some people might not be able to figure out how to make their tag/markings last. I mean, if people are buying a tagless tracking number - they should be expected to have the common sense to be able to mark their bug in a somewhat permanent manner... and if they can't, well then that is just too bad for them. icon_smile.gif

 

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The Toe Pages

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i like the idea of a physical durable bug that has a little more in it than a printout. Part of the fun was ordering and getting them. Not to mention, they are visable more than paper, I have seen caches with random notes in it, confusion! I am for offering different sizes or shapes, as in smaller ones for micros etc.

 

It's not a sport unless there is something dead in the back of the truck when you get home.

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