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Archived power trail


TK7464
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Why in the heck was the 500+ power trail archived.

NGA would not go into specifics but they said the caches were legaly placed.

I just want an honest answer not the PC skirt around the question answer.

Seems it was placed to set a record, and then archived so no one could use those caches to duplicate it. <_<

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I say good riddance. It should have never existed in the first place. Its things like this that give cachers a bad name. One of the rules for hiding caches...

 

"Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can. The ultimate goals of the saturation guideline are to encourage you to seek out new places to hide caches rather than putting them in areas where caches already exist and to limit the number of caches hidden in a particular area, especially by the same hider. Groundspeak may further restrict cache listings in areas where cache saturation becomes a concern."

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I find that I am of two minds regarding the whole thing. I like to think I caching habits/behaviour is such that I tend not to be a numbers (rate) junkie. I'll take quality over quantity any day.

 

That said, it was the uniqueness of ToTG that had been drawing me to it. AFAIK, there was no other scenario like it anywhere in the country. At least not in the western states. I scheduled vacation time for it and when asked how I racked up such numbers in 2 or 3 days, I would not have been ashamed or embarrassed to say 'yeah, it was a saturation trail.' But only in the sense that ti was such a unique thing. YMMV

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There indeed was a lure. Glad I went the 600 or so miles from N.W. California to participate in the activity. My general preference is for a nice hike, seclusion and awesome views. Heyyyyyyyyyyyy, the trail gave me a taste of something different as well as a different perspective on the Mojave. I saw some awesome vistas, observed abundant wildlife . I was also fortunate to have met some very nice caching ambassadors. I also had the honor of meeting the team who set the record of 626 caches on a mid night to mid night caching run. I am honored to have spent some time with them.

 

Yes I saw a lot of towers, but I also had a couple of gut busting up-hill hikes, saw the Mojave Desert's spring flowers in full bloom. Yes there was an odd lure to the peculiarity of this trail system and I am glad, glad, glad I went and participated.

 

My finds, a rather lightweight 300+, however, I was only going to go and grab a few of each trail just to say I had been among those who felt and responded to the tug.

 

Bummer that is no more.

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One of the rules for hiding caches...

 

 

It's not a rule, it's a Guideline :P

 

Guideline, Rule, same difference. Basically I look at it from an outside point of view. If I found that there are 600 boxes tossed about in an area I normally go, I would be kind of pissed. Its things like this that give caching a bad name. A cache Event is a great place to meet people, shouldn't have to put something like this out. I would much rather hike 20 miles for one cache then spend 20 hours getting 400 caches.

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I would much rather hike 20 miles for one cache then spend 20 hours getting 400 caches.

I've enjoyed both, including TotG, and including more than a couple 20 mile hikes at 14000 feet. They are different activities, with different challenge and different sense of accomplishment. I'm glad geocaching is broad enough to support many interests. Like the Basilisk and that mudcave nearby.

 

Somewhat sad to see TotG go away. Have driven lots of places in the Mojave-- Mojave Road, Calico, Stoddard, Johnson Vly, Panamints, Saline, Teakettle, Titus, Death Valley-- but hadn't driven the powerline. Would have otherwise avoided it, actually. No one lives out there, no one in those 70 miles. Much better than urban micro caching. If gc .com can make a cache improvement, it would be to ban parking lot LPC's.

Edited by bthomas
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Why in the heck was the 500+ power trail archived.

NGA would not go into specifics but they said the caches were legaly placed.

I just want an honest answer not the PC skirt around the question answer.

In a nutshell... the proximity to the towers made the utility companies nervous and might be a terrorist target.

 

Is it potentially a terrorist target? Yes. So is Wal-mart, your City Park, your place of employment. If taken at face avalue, this reason is enough to archive every cache in the world. If we started doing that, then the terrorists win.

 

Is it a good target? I don't think it fits the pattern. Terrorists like places of mass people, like train stations and airports. Cutting of electicity is a nuisance for the masses. Hospitals have backup generators and such. I would expect folks to be upset, but not screaming down the streets in horror. They like to see screaming people and crying in the streets. I don't think a tower in teh desert fits that scenario, but that is just one opinion.

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One of the rules for hiding caches...

 

 

It's not a rule, it's a Guideline :P

 

Guideline, Rule, same difference. Basically I look at it from an outside point of view. If I found that there are 600 boxes tossed about in an area I normally go, I would be kind of pissed. Its things like this that give caching a bad name. A cache Event is a great place to meet people, shouldn't have to put something like this out. I would much rather hike 20 miles for one cache then spend 20 hours getting 400 caches.

That was the beauty of this trail.

 

It is not for the casual cacher. It is not for the hike-only cacher. It is not for the urban air coinditioning cacher. This was not for everyone, and it sounds like it is not for you.

 

This is for the obessed cacher. Something different.

 

Like boot camp, you do it once, you're glad you did it, you're proud you did it. You don't want to do it again, but you look back with fond memories.

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Somewhat sad to see TotG go away.

I agree. It was a new and different experience.

Definitely not for everyone, and not something that should have been copied ad nauseum in other locations, but certainly a whole lot of fun for me. Thanks for giving it a try! :)

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I would much rather hike 20 miles for one cache then spend 20 hours getting 400 caches.

I've enjoyed both, including TotG, and including more than a couple 20 mile hikes at 14000 feet. They are different activities, with different challenge and different sense of accomplishment. I'm glad geocaching is broad enough to support many interests. Like the Basilisk and that mudcave nearby.

 

 

You mean like THIS? :)

 

I'm also sad to see it go. I'm not sure I'd have the stamina to grind through a fraction of the caches that were out there but it was certainly a "viral" moment in the Community to see all the attention that it garnered, and that's always a good thing in my book.

 

As far as the concerns about, "giving caching a bad name", etc., Groundspeak has a special place of honor for those types of situations. Aside from the "terrorist" concerns mentioned there (utility companies active imagination aside), I'm not seeing anything that would otherwise raise a red flag.

 

Edit spelling

Edited by Touchstone
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Like boot camp, you do it once, you're glad you did it, you're proud you did it. You don't want to do it again, but you look back with fond memories.

 

 

I had the good fortune to make a run on the trails with ckayaks over the 3/27-3/28 weekend. I am one of those who are very glad for the experience and proud to have done it, saw unique sites--natural and man made, and look back with fond memories. Picked up only 200+ Sat & 160+ Sun, and so was even looking forward to hitting the trails again sometime. Thanks NGA!

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I'm going to cry "foul" on this one One of the listing requirements is permanence.

Cache Permanence

When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there.

I strongly suspect that this power trail was set with the knowledge that it would be archived almost as soon as the record was set, and certainly less than three months. Sure, I suspect the power trail would take some maintaining - but IMO NGA shouldn't have set it if they weren't prepared to put in the maintenance effort.

 

If you're going to set a power trail like that IMO you should at least have the courtesy to leave it in place (as per the listing requirements) long enough to let everyone have a fair crack of the whip. Also, with all those caches archived anyone wanting a cache listing for the area won't be able to see the wood for the (crossed out) trees. IOW, the area is now blighted.

 

JMHO...

 

Geoff

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I'm going to cry "foul" on this one One of the listing requirements is permanence.

Cache Permanence

When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there.

I strongly suspect that this power trail was set with the knowledge that it would be archived almost as soon as the record was set, and certainly less than three months. Sure, I suspect the power trail would take some maintaining - but IMO NGA shouldn't have set it if they weren't prepared to put in the maintenance effort.

 

If you're going to set a power trail like that IMO you should at least have the courtesy to leave it in place (as per the listing requirements) long enough to let everyone have a fair crack of the whip. Also, with all those caches archived anyone wanting a cache listing for the area won't be able to see the wood for the (crossed out) trees. IOW, the area is now blighted.

 

JMHO...

 

Geoff

 

Hi Geoff,

 

I told myself I was going to quit flogging this dead horse, but I gotta put my .02 in here...

 

I lurk far more than I post. But have been reading the TotG threads with interest since I'd planned to trek from Oregon to make a run on it. Too late now, but that's beside the point. At any rate, through my reading here on both this forum and the forums on the NGA site, as well as a number of email exchanges with folks a bit closer to the action, I've come to the opinion that when NGA placed the trail, they had every intention of it being in place for a good while. I know I would have to think long and hard about placing 500+ caches along a ~50 mile stretch of "road" in the middle of the Mojave if I knew that I'd be having to head back out and pick 'em all up just 60-90 days later. I'm thinking you wouldn't go to that trouble, either. :D

 

If I understand the nature of PQs correctly, your issue with the area being 'blighted' is moot as PQs will only return listings that are currently active. Providing, of course, the user sets it up that way.

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