NGA

It's not a rule, it's a Guideline Guideline, Rule, same difference. Basically I look at it from an outside point of view. If I found that there are 600 boxes tossed about in an area I normally go, I would be kind of pissed. Its things like this that give caching a bad name. A cache Event is a great place to meet people, shouldn't have to put something like this out. I would much rather hike 20 miles for one cache then spend 20 hours getting 400 caches. That was the beauty of this trail. It is not for the casual cacher. It is not for the hike-only cacher. It is not for the urban air coinditioning cacher. This was not for everyone, and it sounds like it is not for you. This is for the obessed cacher. Something different. Like boot camp, you do it once, you're glad you did it, you're proud you did it. You don't want to do it again, but you look back with fond memories.

In a nutshell... the proximity to the towers made the utility companies nervous and might be a terrorist target. Is it potentially a terrorist target? Yes. So is Wal-mart, your City Park, your place of employment. If taken at face avalue, this reason is enough to archive every cache in the world. If we started doing that, then the terrorists win. Is it a good target? I don't think it fits the pattern. Terrorists like places of mass people, like train stations and airports. Cutting of electicity is a nuisance for the masses. Hospitals have backup generators and such. I would expect folks to be upset, but not screaming down the streets in horror. They like to see screaming people and crying in the streets. I don't think a tower in teh desert fits that scenario, but that is just one opinion.

No. And at the time of archival, the caches were not on the poles.

Thanks for posting that. I know this is cross threading but can't help but wonder if that official document could be used in the Paul Repak cache maggot trial? BLM, according to that document, grants permission as long as it complies with casual use conditions. It's a good read. I might just have to print that one and keep it on file somewhere. Thanks again. Since Paul Repak was not on BLM lands, I doubt it applies.

That article was for New Mexico but I'm sure it's universal. This was the part that could cause the geocaches to need to be archived "The BLM must confirm that geochaching activities do not jeopardize public health and safety" Since someone broke their ankle on the first power run, numerous flat tires, and one person getting stuck and inviting buzzards to get excited, there might be "danger" issues. Just speculation, of course. I'm sure since a reviewer was involved directly with this series and since NGA posted the above link that they were aware of this part of the website: Since we can be assured that the local BLM Field Office was contacted, then there should be no issue with the BLM in this matter. As mentioned, this is New Mexico's BLM office policy. This clause does not apply.

That article was for New Mexico but I'm sure it's universal. This was the part that could cause the geocaches to need to be archived "The BLM must confirm that geochaching activities do not jeopardize public health and safety" Since someone broke their ankle on the first power run, numerous flat tires, and one person getting stuck and inviting buzzards to get excited, there might be "danger" issues. Just speculation, of course. You are correct. This is the New Mexico implementation, which is pretty close to Arizona's version. Here is the Official BLM Memorandum which is less restrictive. I fail to see how "The BLM must confirm that geochaching activities do not jeopardize public health and safety" applies here. It is a tasking on BLM, not the Geocaching community - Geocachers need to do this, but BLM HQ cannot dictate or specific actions. To our knowledge, BLM made no request for actions in this issue.

Should I interpret that to mean that the NGA has no intention of telling us what really happened? And ruin the drama? We are still confident that the caches were legal when archived, at least with respect to the utility companies and their towers. There might be issues with their proximity to the towers (the land is owned by BLM), but this becomes a legal issue that would have to be decided in court. We agreed with Groundspeak's request to archive as an act of appeasement. Here is some ammo for the anti-power trails to use. BLM Policy on Geocaching Keep in mind that these Geocaches in no way interrupted the flow of electricity.

The reason is actually pretty simple. We were tired of all the e-mail.

Glazed donuts are not original but people seem to like them.

750 people show up at a Mega Flash Mob. Each person takes one cache name off the list and then set out to log it with the team name.

We need more cache containers. For some reason we ran out of stock. Congrats to Peas and TGR for their milestone efforts!

Tell him we said hello!

Actually, it said nothing like that. I see nothing that indicates where the cachers were at that instant. Maybe they were in Egypt? Maybe you could start that rumor?

Does this mean that the entire team did not get out of the vehicle and find the cache in this "record attempt?" No... It means that it takes time to put a kickstand down. It means that when driving from one cache to the next, the driver can drive, the navigator can navigate, and the folks in the back seat can read the cache page. It means that all the caches are not exactly the same hide. It means that the caches are not in a straight line. Not sure where you got "not everyone got out of the car at every cache" from that. So they all got out of the car at every cache? I thought someone was always in the driver's seat and kept the car running so time wasn't wasted starting up the car. Also, no one physically signs the log, right? They use a team sticker, right? I have no idea if they did or not. I was not there. I did say that it takes time to put a kickstand down. I did say that when driving from one cache to the next, the driver can drive, the navigator can navigate, and the folks in the back seat can read the cache page. I did say that all the caches are not exactly the same hide. I did say that the caches are not in a straight line. I did not say anything about whether or not anybody or everybody got out of the car. Please do not add non-existant facts to my what I said. There are people use team stickers and stamps for their teams on a routine basis, even when targeting a single cache on a long hike. As a cache owner, I will allow team stickers on the log page. Period. If you want to create a set of rules to the "number of caches in a day", then please start a thread and describe them. As much as folks may nit-pick at it, I see nothing in this thread that give me any reason to not believe they have made one heck of an accomplishment.

Does this mean that the entire team did not get out of the vehicle and find the cache in this "record attempt?" No... It means that it takes time to put a kickstand down. It means that when driving from one cache to the next, the driver can drive, the navigator can navigate, and the folks in the back seat can read the cache page. It means that all the caches are not exactly the same hide. It means that the caches are not in a straight line. Not sure where you got "not everyone got out of the car at every cache" from that.

I just want to say congrats to the SDNH (Kwvers!, Splashman, The Vulture and $kimmer) for their extended run at the Trail of the Gods. It looks like they had a blast out in the desert (and before the snakes came out)

If you can do it with one vehicle, then more power to ya!

Sounds like an awesome adventure - that is why this was built. It sounds like it the trail isn't long enough though. (if you went South to North, you could have finished up on the Trail of Fears. The extra vehicles is a good idea. Or just fuel cans stashed along the way? 235 caches in a day is highly commendable and could be a record. To do find, navigate, search, research, and everything all by yourself is no easy feat. I disagree - it takes time to drop the kickstand. When working as a team, one drives while the other(s) read the next cache and/or look at sat pic etc (this route is NOT a straight line). Folks haven't mentioned yet but the terrain/difficulty/cache size/hints will give distinct clues as to what to expect at a cache location. The caches are 85% the same. Its the other 15% that will catch you off guard. Except for the fillups, the vehicle was probably running the whole time. As mentioned, it is not a straight line. There are turns, obstacles, rocks, sand, dead end roads ou need to back out of, and your foot is constantly working the gas pedal. That will cut your gas mileage in half (or worse). Not all caches are placed to cater to everyone's needs. These caches were placed for these people and others with similar styles. We have other caches that we know you will enjoy. Pick you style. What are you looking for? Except for the fillups, the vehicle was probably running the whole time. This made me wonder also... I am a courier and drive at least 200 kms a day... I leave my car running all day (cheaper than replacing starters) I go through about $20 gas a day which is about 18 litres. my tank (which is small) holds 50 litres. If I had to fill up my small gas tank twice in 24 hours I would be looking for a leak in the tank. Makes no sense... But hey... congrats on finding 100+ per person a day. On the kind of road they drove, and in a gas guzzling 4wd...they may only be getting 8-12 MPG. The end to end length of the Trail of the Gods id about 70 miles, and there's not a straight line. I saw one estimate that the driving distance would be about 3 times the length. 200+miles. I'd sure love to see more details on things like that. what was the total distance on the odometer, how many gallons of fuel, Etc. Hmmm.....interesting. So there is no gas station close to these? So 2 trips for gas, bathroom breaks, traveling to the cache itself, putting stickers on the logs....etc. So each of the hides took what, 30 seconds to find? Hmmm.....where is the challenge in that? Where they just laying out there in the open? Or was a little pre-hunt done before to find them, then on record day, just go back and put stickers on the logs? Or more likely, was each person hunting separate caches and everyone putting their sticker on? In which case, someone could get a group of say 566 people and bust this "record" in less than an hour. Sounding more and more like a feat of endurance than a challenge. One vehicle. It's tough to split up when you have only one vehicle. Please read (and understand) the reports before you poke non-exisitant holes in it. If you want proof, ask for a track log or something. If there were a prize other than bragging rights at stake, there would be more rules and proof requirements. A feat of endurance is a challenge. Just ask any marathon runner. If folks look closely at the route, the caches average about .2 miles apart length wise and 600-700 feet apart widthwise. Yes some are a bit closer, but many are further apart.

Any trip reports? We had over 16,000 e-mails in our inbox over the past two weeks.

Any decent size cache from Mandalay Bay is a healthy walk. I would recommend meeting a local cacher at the Welcome to Las Vegas sign. Heck, if you could lock in a date/time you could even have a flash mob! Check in on www.NevadaGeocaching.com and see what folks are doing.

OK So I finaly know when I will be there. I will be in Seoul on the 16th and will be leaving on the 20th. If anyone wants to contact me please feel free to do so. I would love to met some guys. I will be staying close to the Gangnum station area. I would like to join you but I am in Daegu about 3 hours south of you. There are cachers in your area. You might try and post a message at their forum at the Geocaching Korea Site Three hours isn't too far, is it? Of course that does translate into 8 caching hours.

There are a few ammo cans near the strip. We can direct you to one if you know where you will be.

Since the first "daily record" announced several years ago with 240 caches, the gauntlet was thrown down. Rules? Whether it be two people per vehicle or 4 people per vehicle? Does everyone get out? Multiple vehicles, stamps, group names vs individuals? Your call, we aren't here to be policemen. It would be cool to see track logs pictures poted with times, stop points for meals or campfire breaks. That would be really cool. It would help if details were posted about how many people, how many vehicles, were stamps used, group names, did everyone visit every cache, etc. But... that is up to you. We did as few spot checks on loigs the other day and things seemed reasonable. heck, we even placed a 4 hour multi-cache in the area if someone needs a break in the day (no team names on this one please - please only log it if you do the whole thing). The idea behind the Trail of the Gods is for individuals to test their personal stamina and endurance. We just want folks to enjoy themselves.

The cinnamon rolls are gone and the temperatures are rising. Look for temps out there next week up to 80.

Our bags are packed, we're ready to go... We have three rolls left and I am getting the munchies.