When is it Geotrash?

[+thedeadpirate]

Perhaps Groundspeak could offer an OPTION on the listing submittal page, to "place" the cache for adoption in the event of Owner dissappearance. There could be an agreed upon length of time, response or lack of, ect. The person submitting the listing for posting could then "choose" whether or not they were willing to participate in this. Don't want to agree to these terms??? Leave the option unchecked.

I am intrigued by this idea.

 

Fortunately, if I am interpreting past posts by reviewers correctly, we don't need to wait for Groundspeak to implement such a feature. Here's what I'm talking about:

 

In a discussion about what would happen if a cacher died, it was stated that if they left written instructions that their caches be adopted out, they could be adopted. Without such direction, Groundspeak will not allow them to be adopted. Following the same logic, if I leave explicit directions on each of my cache pages (or perhaps on my profile page) that if I drop off the geocaching radar, my caches can be adopted, I would assume that my wishes would be followed.

 

I'm half tempted to report this post to get a reviewer's opinion on this one, but I imagine they keep busy enough as it is and wouldn't appreciate abuse of "The Button."

Something like:

"In the event that I fail to log into my account for 6 months or longer and someone wishes to adopt one or more of my caches, please consider this note as my formal approval of such an adoption."

I like it.

I'm not a fan of cache adoption for the most part. Yeah, occasionally you will run into one of historical value, but generally there is no reason to not simply replace it with your own cache. (edit: after the cache has been properly archived, of course!)

 

If you'll notice, that leaves adoption open as an option, not a requirement. The same person coming across one of my caches, seeing it is in need of repair and that I have not been active for 6 months could just as easily post an NA.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of previous threads where people have wanted to adopt caches but the owner had been MIA and could not be contacted to get permission. The rules are such that without that permission, the cache could not be adopted. That means that either the cache gets unofficially adopted, archived, or left as-is.

[knowschad]

If you'll notice, that leaves adoption open as an option, not a requirement. The same person coming across one of my caches, seeing it is in need of repair and that I have not been active for 6 months could just as easily post an NA.

I'm thinking more along the lines of previous threads where people have wanted to adopt caches but the owner had been MIA and could not be contacted to get permission. The rules are such that without that permission, the cache could not be adopted. That means that either the cache gets unofficially adopted, archived, or left as-is.

No... I hear you... at least I think I do. I still have to ask, though... why adopt instead of putting out a new cache and bringing people back there once again? The new cache can have the exact same coordinates, the exact same container, the exact same cache name, the exact same D/T ratings, and the exact same hints. The only differences are the cache owner's name, the waypoint name, the publication date, and the list of logs. It is a very rare cache where that 2nd list contains anything that really matters, IMO.

[+thedeadpirate]

>>If there is no way that you can't put it back together into some sort of a cache that can reasonably be left for possible maintenance by the cache owner or other cachers, then, by all means... I think we can all agree that is trash.<<

 

I believe there is pretty much a consensus that if the container is broken and the contents are strewn about that the responsible thing to do is bag it up and bring it home with you. In that case there is no doubt the cache has turned into actual trash.

[+thedeadpirate]

If you'll notice, that leaves adoption open as an option, not a requirement. The same person coming across one of my caches, seeing it is in need of repair and that I have not been active for 6 months could just as easily post an NA.

I'm thinking more along the lines of previous threads where people have wanted to adopt caches but the owner had been MIA and could not be contacted to get permission. The rules are such that without that permission, the cache could not be adopted. That means that either the cache gets unofficially adopted, archived, or left as-is.

 

No... I hear you... at least I think I do. I still have to ask, though... why adopt instead of putting out a new cache and bringing people back there once again? The new cache can have the exact same coordinates, the exact same container, the exact same cache name, the exact same D/T ratings, and the exact same hints. The only differences are the cache owner's name, the waypoint name, the publication date, and the list of logs. It is a very rare cache where that 2nd list contains anything that really matters, IMO.

 

My thoughts along those lines is that not every cache needs to be adopted. But currently if someone sees merit to a cache and the owner can not be contacted, their only recourse is to unofficially adopt the cache.

 

I also think that regardless of whether the original cache is adopted or a new one is placed, you will still bring people to the area.

 

But adopting the original cache may have a few benefits. It may be a unique container. It may be that someone wishes to preserve the original online logs. Some caches have some very interesting history when reading through the logs. If you archived the cache, you essentially kill that unless you link to the originally listing. And even if you link to the original listing, not many people are going to follow it.

 

For those that have already found the original cache, if the area was worthy of a revisit, then it shouldn't require a new cache to bring that about.

[knowschad]

For those that have already found the original cache, if the area was worthy of a revisit, then it shouldn't require a new cache to bring that about.

It does for me, and for every other cacher that I know, with no exceptions. And I know quite a few. We may not have always been, but now, at least, we are geocachers. We don't go to a park that doesn't have unfound caches, just to go for a walk. We might go there to look for a new spot to hide a cache, but not for the sole purpose of revisiting a favorite old cache.

As I said, there are "very few" reasons to adopt. I never said "none", but I will put it in the less than 0.01% range without hesitation.

[+L0ne.R]

I've followed the suggested rules with respect to one moldy old cache. Posted a NA, placed a watch on the cache, waited the couple of months for the reviewer to archive the cache, drove 30 minutes to get back to the cache to remove and dispose it, then posted a note on the cache page that the cache had been disposed of.

 

But I do see the problem when the cacher who places the NA, can't go back to an abandoned trash cache to dispose of it. The box eventually gets archived by the reviewer and the moldy cache remains in the woods. It just doesn't look goood when a community condones leaving abandoned caches to rot.

 

One possible solution might be to provide a monthly list of recently archived caches to local geocaching associations and have volunteers pick up archived abandoned caches and post notes that they are indeed gone.

[+thedeadpirate]

As I said, there are "very few" reasons to adopt. I never said "none", but I will put it in the less than 0.01% range without hesitation.

 

We're not really in disagreement. I just liked NeecesandNephews' proposal and you didn't. No harm, no foul.

[knowschad]

One possible solution might be to provide a monthly list of recently archived caches to local geocaching associations and have volunteers pick up archived abandoned caches and post notes that they are indeed gone.

You may well remember this thread that dealt with MiGO's controversial program to do just that. (it is a lengthy parallel to this thread and a useful read, regardless)

[+simpjkee]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

 

For me, the difference between placing a cache and littering is that the geocache is placed by someone who intends to maintain it. When an owner no longer intends to maintain it, it is now litter and should be removed. Though some people think they are doing "the right thing" by maintaining caches for owners, IMO, they are really only passing on the burden of cache maintanence to future cachers. Eventually someone will have to do the "right thing" and put the cache out of its misery.

 

Of course this should never be an issue because cachers should not be placing caches if they don't also plan to maintain them.

[knowschad]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

For me, the difference between placing a cache and littering is that the geocache is placed by someone who intends to maintain it. When an owner no longer intends to maintain it, it is now litter and should be removed. Though some people think they are doing "the right thing" by maintaining caches for owners, IMO, they are really only passing on the burden of cache maintanence to future cachers. Eventually someone will have to do the "right thing" and put the cache out of its misery.

Of course this should never be an issue because cachers should not be placing caches if they don't also plan to maintain them.

And you know this how? Does the owner email you with that information? Is it some sort of intuition that you have developed over the years? Is there a 1-800 number that I can call? Nice theory, but it falls flat in practice, I'm afraid.

[GOF and Bacall]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

For me, the difference between placing a cache and littering is that the geocache is placed by someone who intends to maintain it. When an owner no longer intends to maintain it, it is now litter and should be removed. Though some people think they are doing "the right thing" by maintaining caches for owners, IMO, they are really only passing on the burden of cache maintanence to future cachers. Eventually someone will have to do the "right thing" and put the cache out of its misery.

Of course this should never be an issue because cachers should not be placing caches if they don't also plan to maintain them.

And you know this how? Does the owner email you with that information? Is it some sort of intuition that you have developed over the years? Is there a 1-800 number that I can call? Nice theory, but it falls flat in practice, I'm afraid.

[+simpjkee]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

For me, the difference between placing a cache and littering is that the geocache is placed by someone who intends to maintain it. When an owner no longer intends to maintain it, it is now litter and should be removed. Though some people think they are doing "the right thing" by maintaining caches for owners, IMO, they are really only passing on the burden of cache maintanence to future cachers. Eventually someone will have to do the "right thing" and put the cache out of its misery.

Of course this should never be an issue because cachers should not be placing caches if they don't also plan to maintain them.

And you know this how? Does the owner email you with that information? Is it some sort of intuition that you have developed over the years? Is there a 1-800 number that I can call? Nice theory, but it falls flat in practice, I'm afraid.

 

I think you misunderstood me. The question is: When is it Geotrash? I provided my answer to that question. Obviously there is no way of knowing when the owner decides to abandon their cache, though if they would send me an e-mail to let me know, in a lot of cases I would happily volunteer to rescue their caches from being neglected.

 

I do think you can narrow down the time when a cacher abandons their cache by seeing when they last signed on, reviewing the most current logs on a cache, seeing no owner notes or maintanence logs, among other things.

[knowschad]

Obviously there is no way of knowing when the owner decides to abandon their cache, though if they would send me an e-mail to let me know, in a lot of cases I would happily volunteer to rescue their caches from being neglected.

Thanks. Email is on its way. You live somewhere near Minnesota, I hope?

[+simpjkee]

Obviously there is no way of knowing when the owner decides to abandon their cache, though if they would send me an e-mail to let me know, in a lot of cases I would happily volunteer to rescue their caches from being neglected.

Thanks. Email is on its way. You live somewhere near Minnesota, I hope?

 

Thankfully no. WWWWAAAAAAYYY to cold there for me. It hit 38 degrees here the other night and I was near death.

[4wheelin_fool]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

For me, the difference between placing a cache and littering is that the geocache is placed by someone who intends to maintain it. When an owner no longer intends to maintain it, it is now litter and should be removed. Though some people think they are doing "the right thing" by maintaining caches for owners, IMO, they are really only passing on the burden of cache maintanence to future cachers. Eventually someone will have to do the "right thing" and put the cache out of its misery.

Of course this should never be an issue because cachers should not be placing caches if they don't also plan to maintain them.

And you know this how? Does the owner email you with that information? Is it some sort of intuition that you have developed over the years? Is there a 1-800 number that I can call? Nice theory, but it falls flat in practice, I'm afraid.

 

I think you misunderstood me. The question is: When is it Geotrash? I provided my answer to that question. Obviously there is no way of knowing when the owner decides to abandon their cache, though if they would send me an e-mail to let me know, in a lot of cases I would happily volunteer to rescue their caches from being neglected.

 

I do think you can narrow down the time when a cacher abandons their cache by seeing when they last signed on, reviewing the most current logs on a cache, seeing no owner notes or maintanence logs, among other things.

 

There are plenty of caches that are doing fine which are owned by people who haven't logged on recently.

It does not mean that they are geotrash if they need no maintenence (either by design, or due to the community"s help).

 

Just because someone hasn't logged on recently doesn't mean that they won't answer e-mail, or make a run out to fix problems either. Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

[knowschad]

Obviously there is no way of knowing when the owner decides to abandon their cache, though if they would send me an e-mail to let me know, in a lot of cases I would happily volunteer to rescue their caches from being neglected.

Thanks. Email is on its way. You live somewhere near Minnesota, I hope?

Thankfully no. WWWWAAAAAAYYY to cold there for me. It hit 38 degrees here the other night and I was near death.

Hey...you promised!!!

[+simpjkee]

There are plenty of caches that are doing fine which are owned by people who haven't logged on recently.

It does not mean that they are geotrash if they need no maintenence (either by design, or due to the community"s help).

 

Just because someone hasn't logged on recently doesn't mean that they won't answer e-mail, or make a run out to fix problems either. Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

 

It's a culmination of the things I listed. The last time they logged on is one of many examples, but rarely (if ever) the sole example.

[RedShoesGirl]

..Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

in a perfect world perhaps. but unmuggled caches in a sturdy container full of trash, spent shot gun shelsl, rocks, used condoms, broken toys,whatever. those caches need maintenance. it can be up to the owner or the cacher that found it. almost every cache i visit is full of trash and junk, and not the good kind of junk.

 

sometimes i wonder why i bother to keep cleaning them out because folks are just going to trash them again.

 

being cynical again about the sport ...

 

rsg

[knowschad]

..Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

in a perfect world perhaps. but unmuggled caches in a sturdy container full of trash, spent shot gun shelsl, rocks, used condoms, broken toys,whatever. those caches need maintenance. it can be up to the owner or the cacher that found it. almost every cache i visit is full of trash and junk, and not the good kind of junk.

sometimes i wonder why i bother to keep cleaning them out because folks are just going to trash them again.

being cynical again about the sport ...

rsg

Sounds like you are one of the rare ones that needs to start ignoring everything except micros! My gawd, woman! Where are you doing your caching, anyway?!? Are you seriously saying that this is the norm, and not the exception, out there in California? If so, maybe the Big One isn't such a bad idea, as long as you move away first.

And to think that I thought that an occasional dirty golf ball and bottle cap were the end of the geocaching world. Apparently I am living in Geocaching Nirvana, and did not know it! Thanks!!!!

 

(you are finding this stuff in caches that are a 40 mile 4x4 drive into the desert, too?)

[+thedeadpirate]

Obviously there is no way of knowing when the owner decides to abandon their cache, though if they would send me an e-mail to let me know, in a lot of cases I would happily volunteer to rescue their caches from being neglected.

Thanks. Email is on its way. You live somewhere near Minnesota, I hope?

Thankfully no. WWWWAAAAAAYYY to cold there for me. It hit 38 degrees here the other night and I was near death.

Hey...you promised!!!

 

I was gonna email him too, but he left himself an out.

 

in a lot of cases

 

I figured he would use that to get out of picking up my last cache I couldn't get to this weekend.

[+simpjkee]

Obviously there is no way of knowing when the owner decides to abandon their cache, though if they would send me an e-mail to let me know, in a lot of cases I would happily volunteer to rescue their caches from being neglected.

Thanks. Email is on its way. You live somewhere near Minnesota, I hope?

Thankfully no. WWWWAAAAAAYYY to cold there for me. It hit 38 degrees here the other night and I was near death.

Hey...you promised!!!

 

I did? I said a lot not all and a lot is really an opinion, right? Anyway, I also said if the owner e-mailed me. You saying you're the owner of a neglected cache that you want me to pick up?

[4wheelin_fool]

..Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

in a perfect world perhaps. but unmuggled caches in a sturdy container full of trash, spent shot gun shelsl, rocks, used condoms, broken toys,whatever. those caches need maintenance. it can be up to the owner or the cacher that found it. almost every cache i visit is full of trash and junk, and not the good kind of junk.

 

sometimes i wonder why i bother to keep cleaning them out because folks are just going to trash them again.

 

being cynical again about the sport ...

 

rsg

If the cache is dry and it is full of crappy trade items it does not need maintenance.

 

The trading ethics of the cachers that visit it is what needs maintenance.

 

I noticed that the decrease in swag value seems to correspond with the increase in caches in an area. Rarely visited remote ones tend to have more equity. Perhaps the same amount of swag value is out there, but just spread a bit thin.

Edited February 8, 2010 by 4wheelin_fool

[GOF and Bacall]

..Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

in a perfect world perhaps. but unmuggled caches in a sturdy container full of trash, spent shot gun shelsl, rocks, used condoms, broken toys,whatever. those caches need maintenance. it can be up to the owner or the cacher that found it. almost every cache i visit is full of trash and junk, and not the good kind of junk.

 

sometimes i wonder why i bother to keep cleaning them out because folks are just going to trash them again.

 

being cynical again about the sport ...

 

rsg

 

Is there anything you like about geocaching?

[+L0ne.R]

Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

 

Even sturdy containers eventually deteriorate. I had to replace an ammo can last year after 3 years in the wild. The hinge pins snapped.

[+ThePetersTrio]

Something like:

 

"In the event that I fail to log into my account for 6 months or longer and someone wishes to adopt one or more of my caches, please consider this note as my formal approval of such an adoption."

 

I like it.

 

Me too - call it an "advanced directive" for cachers. The option could easily be added to the on-line form for submission of a cache. The CO checks a box if they'd like that option. Leave it blank if they don't.

 

Sounds pretty simple to me.

[+ReadyOrNot]

If the cache is dry and it is full of crappy trade items it does not need maintenance.

 

The trading ethics of the cachers that visit it is what needs maintenance.

 

I noticed that the decrease in swag value seems to correspond with the increase in caches in an area. Rarely visited remote ones tend to have more equity. Perhaps the same amount of swag value is out there, but just spread a bit thin.

 

You've hit on a key point here! Quality caches have quality swag and vice-versa. Perhaps the game would benefit from more quality caches and less of the "other". What ever happened to the features that we were told were coming, such as cache awards? It would be nice to give some kudos to cachers who place quality caches, but TPTB apparently decided against the awards system.

[RedShoesGirl]

..Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

in a perfect world perhaps. but unmuggled caches in a sturdy container full of trash, spent shot gun shelsl, rocks, used condoms, broken toys,whatever. those caches need maintenance. it can be up to the owner or the cacher that found it. almost every cache i visit is full of trash and junk, and not the good kind of junk.

 

sometimes i wonder why i bother to keep cleaning them out because folks are just going to trash them again.

 

being cynical again about the sport ...

 

rsg

 

Is there anything you like about geocaching?

ya know, that is a darn good question. easy answer, "not much." which is why there are giant gaps in my finds as i get frustrated and quit.

 

but every once in a while i maybe attend an event - always fun - and start to think i should go caching again and then end up irritated. you're right, i have no reason to cache. although i do like the coins part. and i have left several out there as unactivated gifts and i like making sig items.

 

and i like filling up empty caches with swag - when they are big enough to do so. so there is some enjoyment still.

 

the sad thing i am not the only person who gripes about stuff. there are lots out there and many more unhappy customers who aren't as vocal as i am. i used to enjoy caching, before micros and nanos took over the sport, when caches were usually of high quality.

 

but if you notice i am not the one that started this thread. and there are many threads before this one talking about the junk in caches, inaccurate descriptions, etc.

 

i get a bee in my bonnet and have the audacity to think things can be changed for the positive. silly me. i end up sounding as if i am complaining bout everything. i wish the PTB would pay attention to those of us old-timers who have some real concerns about where geocaching is going. i think lots of those folks just quit, thus leaving caches to become trash.

 

i am going to change my enjoyment of what used to be a fun sport and concentrate not on hunting crapolla and instead place more quality caches. time to put out more. we are working on a neat puzzle cache even as we speak.

 

it is probably a futile expectation and an unreasonable hope that others will be influenced to do the same.

 

except many good locations in the desert that do not require a lengthy dirty drive are already taken by micros, hide-a-keys etc.

 

i have only one cache that hasn't been muggled or archived for some reason. and that is because it is bloody hard to get to it. not even a 4x4 drive.

 

thanks for pointing out my dissatisfaction so clearly to me.

 

i hope you do the same for others who complain about the same things.

 

small question, are there any women who are participating in this thread? how about women participating in the forums as a whole, besides the coin forum? just curious i am.

 

rsg

[+Castle Mischief]

..Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

in a perfect world perhaps. but unmuggled caches in a sturdy container full of trash, spent shot gun shelsl, rocks, used condoms, broken toys,whatever. those caches need maintenance. it can be up to the owner or the cacher that found it. almost every cache i visit is full of trash and junk, and not the good kind of junk.

 

sometimes i wonder why i bother to keep cleaning them out because folks are just going to trash them again.

 

being cynical again about the sport ...

 

rsg

 

Is there anything you like about geocaching?

ya know, that is a darn good question. easy answer, "not much." which is why there are giant gaps in my finds as i get frustrated and quit.

 

but every once in a while i maybe attend an event - always fun - and start to think i should go caching again and then end up irritated. you're right, i have no reason to cache. although i do like the coins part. and i have left several out there as unactivated gifts and i like making sig items.

 

and i like filling up empty caches with swag - when they are big enough to do so. so there is some enjoyment still.

 

the sad thing i am not the only person who gripes about stuff. there are lots out there and many more unhappy customers who aren't as vocal as i am. i used to enjoy caching, before micros and nanos took over the sport, when caches were usually of high quality.

 

but if you notice i am not the one that started this thread. and there are many threads before this one talking about the junk in caches, inaccurate descriptions, etc.

 

i get a bee in my bonnet and have the audacity to think things can be changed for the positive. silly me. i end up sounding as if i am complaining bout everything. i wish the PTB would pay attention to those of us old-timers who have some real concerns about where geocaching is going. i think lots of those folks just quit, thus leaving caches to become trash.

 

i am going to change my enjoyment of what used to be a fun sport and concentrate not on hunting crapolla and instead place more quality caches. time to put out more. we are working on a neat puzzle cache even as we speak.

 

it is probably a futile expectation and an unreasonable hope that others will be influenced to do the same.

 

except many good locations in the desert that do not require a lengthy dirty drive are already taken by micros, hide-a-keys etc.

 

i have only one cache that hasn't been muggled or archived for some reason. and that is because it is bloody hard to get to it. not even a 4x4 drive.

 

thanks for pointing out my dissatisfaction so clearly to me.

 

i hope you do the same for others who complain about the same things.

 

small question, are there any women who are participating in this thread? how about women participating in the forums as a whole, besides the coin forum? just curious i am.

 

rsg

 

 

My wife is a woman. Her response:

[+The Blorenges]

 

...small question, are there any women who are participating in this thread? how about women participating in the forums as a whole, besides the coin forum? just curious i am.

 

rsg

 

Yes, see my post #65 There are a few of us about... but let's not wander off topic.

 

Somebody on here regularly says, "If you're not having fun, then you're not doing it right" or words to that effect. Personally, I agree with a lot of your points re. the way trends in caches seem to be going but I think the answer is (as often pointed out) that you just have to be far more selective in what you choose to hunt. These days we often don't bother to do certain caches, even if they're only 530ft from where we've just found one - Not necessarily because they're "GeoTrash" but simply because from reading the description and previous half dozen logs and checking the location on our map we consider it's unlikely to be very rewarding.

 

MrsB

[+ReadyOrNot]

My wife is a woman

 

And the master of the obvious award goes to......

[RedShoesGirl]

...

My wife is a woman. Her response:

 

well that is a good thing, i think.

[RedShoesGirl]

... I think the answer is (as often pointed out) that you just have to be far more selective in what you choose to hunt. These days we often don't bother to do certain caches, even if they're only 530ft from where we've just found one - Not necessarily because they're "GeoTrash" but simply because from reading the description and previous half dozen logs and checking the location on our map we consider it's unlikely to be very rewarding.

 

MrsB

 

good point and a good method of caching.

Edited February 8, 2010 by RedShoesGirl

[+Castle Mischief]

My wife is a woman

 

And the master of the obvious award goes to......

 

Hey, I don't assume anything anymore. The world is full of possibilities.

[+L0ne.R]

If the cache is dry and it is full of crappy trade items it does not need maintenance.

 

The trading ethics of the cachers that visit it is what needs maintenance.

 

I noticed that the decrease in swag value seems to correspond with the increase in caches in an area. Rarely visited remote ones tend to have more equity. Perhaps the same amount of swag value is out there, but just spread a bit thin.

 

You've hit on a key point here! Quality caches have quality swag and vice-versa. Perhaps the game would benefit from more quality caches and less of the "other". What ever happened to the features that we were told were coming, such as cache awards? It would be nice to give some kudos to cachers who place quality caches, but TPTB apparently decided against the awards system.

 

Quality caches have quality swag....that hasn't been my experience. They may be good hides in nice locations with quality swag (to start out with) but eventually, even with pleas to 'trade up or trade even' posted in the box and cache description, the contents deteriorate. But if by 'quality caches have quality swag' you mean quality caches have COs that make regular visits to their cache to clear out the junk, wipe down the box and add fresh new quality swag, then I agree.

[GOF and Bacall]

..Caches should never need maintenence anyhow if they never get muggled, are in a sturdy container, and someone tosses in another logbook when necessary.

in a perfect world perhaps. but unmuggled caches in a sturdy container full of trash, spent shot gun shelsl, rocks, used condoms, broken toys,whatever. those caches need maintenance. it can be up to the owner or the cacher that found it. almost every cache i visit is full of trash and junk, and not the good kind of junk.

 

sometimes i wonder why i bother to keep cleaning them out because folks are just going to trash them again.

 

being cynical again about the sport ...

 

rsg

 

Is there anything you like about geocaching?

ya know, that is a darn good question. easy answer, "not much." which is why there are giant gaps in my finds as i get frustrated and quit.

 

but every once in a while i maybe attend an event - always fun - and start to think i should go caching again and then end up irritated. you're right, i have no reason to cache. although i do like the coins part. and i have left several out there as unactivated gifts and i like making sig items.

 

and i like filling up empty caches with swag - when they are big enough to do so. so there is some enjoyment still.

 

the sad thing i am not the only person who gripes about stuff. there are lots out there and many more unhappy customers who aren't as vocal as i am. i used to enjoy caching, before micros and nanos took over the sport, when caches were usually of high quality.

 

but if you notice i am not the one that started this thread. and there are many threads before this one talking about the junk in caches, inaccurate descriptions, etc.

 

i get a bee in my bonnet and have the audacity to think things can be changed for the positive. silly me. i end up sounding as if i am complaining bout everything. i wish the PTB would pay attention to those of us old-timers who have some real concerns about where geocaching is going. i think lots of those folks just quit, thus leaving caches to become trash.

 

i am going to change my enjoyment of what used to be a fun sport and concentrate not on hunting crapolla and instead place more quality caches. time to put out more. we are working on a neat puzzle cache even as we speak.

 

it is probably a futile expectation and an unreasonable hope that others will be influenced to do the same.

 

except many good locations in the desert that do not require a lengthy dirty drive are already taken by micros, hide-a-keys etc.

 

i have only one cache that hasn't been muggled or archived for some reason. and that is because it is bloody hard to get to it. not even a 4x4 drive.

 

thanks for pointing out my dissatisfaction so clearly to me.

 

i hope you do the same for others who complain about the same things.

 

small question, are there any women who are participating in this thread? how about women participating in the forums as a whole, besides the coin forum? just curious i am.

 

rsg

 

I only asked because after being away for so long you came back snorting flames and spitting acid. Take a step back and think about what is still out there to enjoy. Find a way to maximize those points while avoiding what you don't like. I hate to say it but the best tools for that are PQs and GSAK. Consider renewing your PM and making use of the tools that come with it. I'm not saying don't advocate for the changes you think are needed. Just don't let it suck all the joy out of your caching adventures.

[RedShoesGirl]

...

 

I only asked because after being away for so long you came back snorting flames and spitting acid. Take a step back and think about what is still out there to enjoy. Find a way to maximize those points while avoiding what you don't like. I hate to say it but the best tools for that are PQs and GSAK. Consider renewing your PM and making use of the tools that come with it. I'm not saying don't advocate for the changes you think are needed. Just don't let it suck all the joy out of your caching adventures.

 

i said my enjoyment will come from placing caches. i haven't been away from the geocoin part of the sport except for a short break after selling off my collection for new engine for my car, just for the hunting caches part. snorting flames and spitting acid, that is one powerful visual. thanks!

 

rsg

[+thedeadpirate]

i haven't been away from the geocoin part of the sport except for a short break after selling off my collection for new engine for my car

 

Now the true source of the angst is revealed.

[RedShoesGirl]

i haven't been away from the geocoin part of the sport except for a short break after selling off my collection for new engine for my car

 

Now the true source of the angst is revealed.

 

honey, you have NO idea. carless for months. most of my coins gone. i had the first full collection of tranquilities in the whole world, every colour/metal/edition. ok, no biggie in the real world but it meant a lot to me. we laugh about it, but geocoins can become like an addiction.

 

off to create my puzzle cache.

 

rsg

[+cmhall9]

I’ve replaced wet logs before. I even keep a spare log in my truck.

There was one cache I recommended for archiving. I reviewed the logs online and the owners had not login for over a year. Their cache was missing. Another cacher did replace the cache five month earlier but it was gone. That wasn’t why I requested the archive. It was the fact that the cache was supposed to be hidden in the base of a lamppost near some wires. A couple of other cachers that had found the cache confirmed it.

[+Opalblade]

I found one recently that reminded me of this thread. From reading past logs it appears that a few years back it started off as a very cute handmade container hanging in a tree. Then logs started talking about the lid being missing, then a bees nest was in the tree location, from then it was only found on the ground, a few people found bugs living in it (no lid after all), at some point someone put a pill container inside it, and then someone put the log inside a ziploc inside the pill container inside the original container. So I go out there and I find the original container (wooden box with no lid) lying in the middle of a huge puddle. I use a long nearby pipe to drag it towards me out of the water. It has water in it. The pill bottle inside it has water in it and its camo has mostly rotted off. The ziploc inside the pill bottle has water in it. The log is stuck together. I let out the water and propped it under a branch on dry ground. Didn't sign of course and posted a Needs Archived. Needs Maintenances had been posted before with no response from owners who haven't logged in since 08.

 

So to those reading...would you have taken the container with you to throw out?

Edited February 9, 2010 by Opalblade

[knowschad]

I found one recently that reminded me of this thread. From reading past logs it appears that a few years back it started off as a very cute handmade container hanging in a tree. Then logs started talking about the lid being missing, then a bees nest was in the tree location, from then it was only found on the ground, a few people found bugs living in it (no lid after all), at some point someone put a pill container inside it, and then someone put the log inside a ziploc inside the pill container inside the original container. So I go out there and I find the original container (wooden box with no lid) lying in the middle of a huge puddle. I use a long nearby pipe to drag it towards me out of the water. It has water in it. The pill bottle inside it has water in it and its camo has mostly rotted off. The ziploc inside the pill bottle has water in it. The log is stuck together. I let out the water and propped it under a branch on dry ground. Didn't sign of course and posted a Needs Archived. Needs Maintenances had been posted before with no response from owners who haven't logged in since 08.

 

So to those reading...would you have taken the container with you to throw out?

OK, you win!!! Great story!!! Yes, I think I would have hauled that one out of there in a split second!

[+terrkan78]

I found one recently that reminded me of this thread. From reading past logs it appears that a few years back it started off as a very cute handmade container hanging in a tree. Then logs started talking about the lid being missing, then a bees nest was in the tree location, from then it was only found on the ground, a few people found bugs living in it (no lid after all), at some point someone put a pill container inside it, and then someone put the log inside a ziploc inside the pill container inside the original container. So I go out there and I find the original container (wooden box with no lid) lying in the middle of a huge puddle. I use a long nearby pipe to drag it towards me out of the water. It has water in it. The pill bottle inside it has water in it and its camo has mostly rotted off. The ziploc inside the pill bottle has water in it. The log is stuck together. I let out the water and propped it under a branch on dry ground. Didn't sign of course and posted a Needs Archived. Needs Maintenances had been posted before with no response from owners who haven't logged in since 08.

 

So to those reading...would you have taken the container with you to throw out?

 

I wouldn't have been able to bring myself to throw it away until it was actually archived. After the archival, then I'd toss it guilt free (I probably wouldn't make a special trip just to pick up someone else's geo-litter, but if I was near that cache again, I'd grab it - admittedly the geo-litter might sit there for months that way, which is a shame).

 

There's one like that in town. I solved the puzzle but didn't hunt the actual cache for many months. When I finally did, it was in shambles. I fixed it up as best I could and when I got home to log, I found that it'd been archived by a reviewer a few months back. One of these days when I find myself on that same bike path I'll go see if it's still there and grab it if so. It's litter in the meantime, but at least it's well hidden litter.

[Clan Riffster]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

With the later clarification, Simpjkee makes a valid point. Once the owner decides not to play anymore, the clock starts ticking. Of my three (personal & biased) primary requirements for a needs archived log, (absent owner/nonviable container/no community support), a cache owner who drops out of the game without the simple courtesy of picking up his game pieces is the one that trumps all the others.

[+Renegade Knight]

What if the cache is listed on another service?

.....A simple note worded to the effect of, "I am archiving this cache on GC .com. Please do not treat it as litter, as it will be active on TC .com", would suffice. If they are unwilling to spend a few seconds doing so, then I feel no qualms about treating their archived cache as litter, and removing it, after what I feel is a reasonable amount of time has passed.

 

Every cache listed here should have a final disposition. That should be built into the TOS. Then they can create a cache rescue mission (CRM cache) for the ones that have none. The guy who said "I'm done here, I'm moving this cache to TC.org" is covered. The one who archvies and says "I picked it up" is covered. The one who's MIA got an email from his friendly reviewer and a generouse amount of time to respond and if they didn't. CRM cache and it's picked up.

 

It wouldn't take much work up front to make the tail end work a lot easier and better for the activity for us all.

 

simpjkee, has the gist. Once abandoned it's litter. the community (for now) can adopt, but setting a clock in the TOS puts out a way that we can determine abandoned from inactive but the cache is still loved.

[4wheelin_fool]

All that needs to be done is for cachers to put archived log types on their notifications. They send an e-mail to the owner and if there is no response, then they pick it up (and post a find).

[GOF and Bacall]

I have no problem with picking up the trash under the current rules. I just think that it is important to make an honest and reasonable attempt to contact the CO. That includes checking the other listing sites. It is easy to do and if you don't want to open an account at the other sites ask around. Odds are good that you know someone who has the accounts already.

[+Renegade Knight]

>>If there is no way that you can't put it back together into some sort of a cache that can reasonably be left for possible maintenance by the cache owner or other cachers, then, by all means... I think we can all agree that is trash.<<

 

I believe there is pretty much a consensus that if the container is broken and the contents are strewn about that the responsible thing to do is bag it up and bring it home with you. In that case there is no doubt the cache has turned into actual trash.

Depends on the cache. Depends on the container. Depends on the owner. Especially the owner.

[Andronicus]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

 

For me, the difference between placing a cache and littering is that the geocache is placed by someone who intends to maintain it. When an owner no longer intends to maintain it, it is now litter and should be removed. Though some people think they are doing "the right thing" by maintaining caches for owners, IMO, they are really only passing on the burden of cache maintanence to future cachers. Eventually someone will have to do the "right thing" and put the cache out of its misery.

 

Of course this should never be an issue because cachers should not be placing caches if they don't also plan to maintain them.

 

Although this opinion seems un-popular, I tend to agree with it. Of course it may be difficault to determin if the CO intends to maintain it or not. If a reviewer has put out their standard "you have one month to contact me", and there is no contact, that is likely good enough evidence that the CO is AWOL, and the cache is now geotrash.

 

I realy do not see the reverence that everyone holds for each and every cache. Unless a cache is "special", archive it, and then someone can place a new one. Everyone keeps talking about the "community" maintaining caches. To me this seems silly. If the CO is gone from the game, and the cache is not in the 90th persentile of "Special" caches, it basicaly worthless. If it is archived, and the area/spot is good, someone else WILL place a new cache there.

[GOF and Bacall]

In my opinion, a cache becomes geotrash the second the owner abandons it.

 

For me, the difference between placing a cache and littering is that the geocache is placed by someone who intends to maintain it. When an owner no longer intends to maintain it, it is now litter and should be removed. Though some people think they are doing "the right thing" by maintaining caches for owners, IMO, they are really only passing on the burden of cache maintanence to future cachers. Eventually someone will have to do the "right thing" and put the cache out of its misery.

 

Of course this should never be an issue because cachers should not be placing caches if they don't also plan to maintain them.

 

Although this opinion seems un-popular, I tend to agree with it. Of course it may be difficault to determin if the CO intends to maintain it or not. If a reviewer has put out their standard "you have one month to contact me", and there is no contact, that is likely good enough evidence that the CO is AWOL, and the cache is now geotrash.

 

I realy do not see the reverence that everyone holds for each and every cache. Unless a cache is "special", archive it, and then someone can place a new one. Everyone keeps talking about the "community" maintaining caches. To me this seems silly. If the CO is gone from the game, and the cache is not in the 90th persentile of "Special" caches, it basicaly worthless. If it is archived, and the area/spot is good, someone else WILL place a new cache there.

 

I agree with most of this. Very few caches are special enough that they need to be maintained by the community or adopted. Better to give someone else a shot at the location. 1 in 1,000 might be a cache worthy of preserving for the future.