Can't Log Needs Maint To A Disabled Cache

[+Cardinal Red]

While scanning for nearby caches I noticed a Difficulty 1 cache that the owner Disabled 9 weeks ago with the note "Will check this weekend". No action taken to date.

 

I checked their other hides looking for a similar problem. About 10 days earlier they Disabled another Difficulty 1 cache (already tagged as Needs Maint) with "Will check on it asap and replace or retire." Also no action to date. Of course they have found the time to log more than two dozen finds in the past 9 weeks.

 

Despite the urge to log a Needs Archived to both of them, I decided to just add a Needs Maint log to the first Disabled cache I mentioned above (with a reminder note asking them to please take some action soon). I was then kind of surprised to discover that the Needs Maint log option is not available on a disabled cache. Your corrective action is needed log choices are limited to Write Note and Needs Archived. The first seems a little light and the second perhaps a little too heavy as my initial contact message. Obviously the owners already know of or suspect a problem evidenced by their Disable log. If a cache is already Disabled, does that totally eliminate the need for the Needs Maint log, or should that choice still be there?

[+Too Tall John]

What purpose would a "Needs Maintenance" log serve? The cache owner knows it needs fixing, they've disabled it already.

[+Ambrosia]

That is interesting to know.

 

If you don't feel comfortable with a needs archive, just write a note saying, "Is there any update on this cache?". Hopefully that will give them the idea that people are watching and are waiting. If they ignore your note after a time period (whatever you feel is too long), then you could log a needs archive.

[+Moose Mob]

Folks should not be afraid to post a "Needs Archived" log.

 

The cache owner can prevent this by performing certain actions, such as doing the maintenance or posting an informative note stating why it cannot be performed and a reasonable time that it will be.

 

Unmaintained caches should be archived. Make room for a cache that can be maintained.

[GOF and Bacall]

Folks should not be afraid to post a "Needs Archived" log.

 

The cache owner can prevent this by performing certain actions, such as doing the maintenance or posting an informative note stating why it cannot be performed and a reasonable time that it will be.

 

Unmaintained caches should be archived. Make room for a cache that can be maintained.

 

Thank you. Glad to see I am not alone in this thought.

[+Ambrosia]

"Needs Archived" is not a scary thing. My mind always jumps to SCARY when I see it, or OH NO, THEY DON'T LIKE ME, but it's just a tool for people to use to get things rolling, that's all.

 

When a Needs Archived is used, the Reviewer looks at the page and sees if there's an issue. It could be a rogue cacher (lol), and maybe the Reviewer doesn't even need to take action. If the Reviewer needs to do something, that usually is a post that asks some confirmation from the cache owner within a certain time period. If the cache owner responds with a note that they are planning on taking care of the cache and what's going on then things are great (at that point, anyway). If the owner doesn't respond, then they aren't active and the cache shouldn't be taking up room where a cache with an active owner can be.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Ambrosia

[+StarBrand]

It does make sense to me to not allow a NM log on a disabled cache. The purpose of such a log is to alert the owner and the geocaching community that the cache is in need of maintenance. Disabling a cache shows the owner is quite aware and the community should not search.

 

I'd just log a note asking for an update. Failing to hear anything within a 2 to 3 weeks - pull the NA trigger.

[+Castle Mischief]

What are the circumstances behind the NM and disabling? Was is a case of a missing cache or just a full log book. If the cache is still there to find, I'd put my hands on it and verify that the conditions still exist for filing a NA log. If the caches are not there to find (verified by the CO) then I might file the NA.

 

I'd just log a note asking for an update. Failing to hear anything within a 2 to 3 weeks - pull the NA trigger.

 

Something like that.

 

Actually, I'd probably never come across these since I filter out disabled caches on my PQs.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[+sbell111]

I would not post a SBA (or NM) on a cache that I hadn't yet looked for. The only thing that I might do in teh OP's situation is shoot an email to the cache owner. I would not take additional action if he chose not to reply to me, however.

 

I might also go ahead and search for the cache. If I found it and it did, in fact, need maintenance, I might give it some.

[+Renegade Knight]

...If a cache is already Disabled, does that totally eliminate the need for the Needs Maint log, or should that choice still be there?

 

Why would you log a NM on a cache that's already flagged for maintance? It's like pressing the elevator button after the door's already open and inviting you in.

 

That the owner isn't getting to it as fast as their stated intent is a separate issue.

[+Renegade Knight]

"Needs Archived" is not a scary thing....

 

It's an annoying thing, as that's my decision as the owner unless there is some crisis that doesn't let me respond in time like the new property owner yelling at the happless finder.

 

For everthing outside that level of crisis, the NA log serves no higher purpose on my caches. My only promise is that I will get to my caches, as time and life allow. I also recognize that almost everthing else in my life is more important than maintaining a cache. Yes I know this conflicts with the lofty goal of sudden maintence service in the guidlines. However it's realistic and I afford this same time frame to other owners.

 

MIA owners with a dead cache are another thing.

[+Moose Mob]

I would not post a SBA (or NM) on a cache that I hadn't yet looked for. <snip>

 

I wish you would. If you are getting ready to go caching and you see that a cache has 3-4 DNFs with nearly all finds before, or the last logs says "the property owner asked me to remove the cache", post a NA log. That way the cache owner and the local reviewer can look at it. If the cache owner is AWOL, then the reviewer may be able address the issue.

 

Reviewers need the help of the community to keep things clean.

[+Moose Mob]

I have another question... why are people searching for a disabled cache? Disabled means "not available". If your neighbor says he is on two weeks vacation, would you go knock on his door just in case he might have come home early?

[+Ambrosia]

"Needs Archived" is not a scary thing....

 

It's an annoying thing, as that's my decision as the owner unless there is some crisis that doesn't let me respond in time like the new property owner yelling at the happless finder.

 

For everthing outside that level of crisis, the NA log serves no higher purpose on my caches. My only promise is that I will get to my caches, as time and life allow. I also recognize that almost everthing else in my life is more important than maintaining a cache. Yes I know this conflicts with the lofty goal of sudden maintence service in the guidlines. However it's realistic and I afford this same time frame to other owners.

 

MIA owners with a dead cache are another thing.

 

I know it can be irritating as an owner. But if you're active, you don't have to worry. If a NA is logged on your cache and you get a nice little note from a Reviewer, all you have to do is post back, to let them know that you are active. It's the only real/quick way a Reviewer can separate a busy owner from a non-existent owner. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to run out to the cache that minute.

[+cycler48]

While scanning for nearby caches I noticed a Difficulty 1 cache that the owner Disabled 9 weeks ago with the note "Will check this weekend". No action taken to date.

 

I checked their other hides looking for a similar problem. About 10 days earlier they Disabled another Difficulty 1 cache (already tagged as Needs Maint) with "Will check on it asap and replace or retire." Also no action to date. Of course they have found the time to log more than two dozen finds in the past 9 weeks.

 

Despite the urge to log a Needs Archived to both of them, I decided to just add a Needs Maint log to the first Disabled cache I mentioned above (with a reminder note asking them to please take some action soon). I was then kind of surprised to discover that the Needs Maint log option is not available on a disabled cache. Your corrective action is needed log choices are limited to Write Note and Needs Archived. The first seems a little light and the second perhaps a little too heavy as my initial contact message. Obviously the owners already know of or suspect a problem evidenced by their Disable log. If a cache is already Disabled, does that totally eliminate the need for the Needs Maint log, or should that choice still be there?

 

I encountered two of these recently. It had been several months since the CO promised he'd do the required maintenance. I went out to verify that the caches were no longer there and logged a needs archive. In addition to that, I sent a note to the reviewer who then posted a note to the CO. The CO did nothing for about two months ... the caches were archived.

[Clan Riffster]

I would not post a SBA (or NM) on a cache that I hadn't yet looked for.

Agreed. My time is valuable, at least to me. I'm not going to waste it by perusing gobs of cache pages in the hopes of finding one whose maintenance schedule is not convenient for my search schedule. Also, by not physically visiting the cache site, all I would have to work with are the beliefs of others, rather than my own findings.

 

To answer Moose Mob, typically, the only time I hunt for disabled caches is if I neglect to update the PQs in my Garmin, and I don't know one is disabled. I filter my PQs, so only active caches show up, but I'm not perfect.

[+Jennifer&Dean]

I have another question... why are people searching for a disabled cache? Disabled means "not available". If your neighbor says he is on two weeks vacation, would you go knock on his door just in case he might have come home early?

I see three on my closest unfound list every time I browse caches that way. The 3 disabled caches all sound like nice ones to find. One has been disabled since April, the other two since August. We even stopped by the one that had been disabled since April while doing cache Maintenance on one of our caches that is further along the same trail. Owners have been caching and finding caches all summer and fall, but no maint.

 

But I can't throw stones... I've got two disabled right now for maintenance issues and one disabled for the season due to an area closure. And I have been caching instead of fixing the broken ones. But on the other hand, we visited 10 of our caches in the last month on yearly maintenance visits!

Jen

[+Castle Mischief]

I have another question... why are people searching for a disabled cache? Disabled means "not available". If your neighbor says he is on two weeks vacation, would you go knock on his door just in case he might have come home early?

 

Depends on why it was disabled. If the CO disabled it because the log was full, then I might go for it. If the CO disabled it because it was infested with zombies, then not so much. If the CO disabled it because other cachers couldn't find it, but has yet to verify that it's missing for himself then I might just give it a shot too. If it's like a virtual near Tampa that is closed during a certain season, then absolutely not.

 

Not all COs use the disable log for the same reason.

 

But like I said, I filter out disabled caches anyway. Only rarely is my data aged and I find myself looking for one.

[+sbell111]

I would not post a SBA (or NM) on a cache that I hadn't yet looked for. <snip>

I wish you would. If you are getting ready to go caching and you see that a cache has 3-4 DNFs with nearly all finds before, or the last logs says "the property owner asked me to remove the cache", post a NA log. That way the cache owner and the local reviewer can look at it. If the cache owner is AWOL, then the reviewer may be able address the issue.

 

Reviewers need the help of the community to keep things clean.

Good point and one that I didn't think of since I don't pre-read the logs. Generally, I only read them if 1) I can't find the cache and am looking for hints or 2) I am walking to the cache and am bored.

[+DanOCan]

Around here our reviewers do a fairly regular sweep of caches which have been disabled "too long" and post reminder notes on the cache pages and then archive them if there is no action. That means I have never thought of the need to post a NM log on a disabled cache. As others have said, if it is disabled someone has already clued in that there is an issue.

 

For that same reason it never would have occurred to me to post a NA log to a cache that has been disabled awaiting maintenance.

 

My NA logs are saved for situations where both the cache AND the owner are missing -- I figure as long as one or the other are still around it's all good.