Comparing units

[+Rockin Roddy]

Switched screens?

[NordicMan]

WOW nice going StarBrand! And the outcome is interesting indeed.

 

To quantify the 8 testers.. you said none of them were Geocachers (yet) but had any of them ever used a GPSr device before? Maybe just a car navigator type unit and/or a handheld?

 

What age range were they? A mix of techno-geeks and techno-dummies?

[+twolpert]

Fascinating results all around.

 

Interesting to note the differences between experienced and novice cachers. From what I can tell, some experienced cachers actually prefer the CO caching workflow over the OR.

 

I can definitely see where the PN-30, with its dependency on knowing when the use the Menu button, would cause some issues for a novice user. I would have expected something of the same thing with the left soft key on the CO -- but maybe they were too busy head-scratching over the RnR

 

I am a little surprised by the success of the OR with novices. I've not used the OR myself. At a recent Geocaching 101 class, had occasion to accompany a new cacher and her brand-new Dakota (which I believe is very similar to the OR in user interface). She was completely lost. And even though I new what functions ought to be there, I had some difficulty finding them. Obviously, your initial instruction must have been much superior to trial and error

[+Rockin Roddy]

Fascinating results all around.

 

Interesting to note the differences between experienced and novice cachers. From what I can tell, some experienced cachers actually prefer the CO caching workflow over the OR.

 

I can definitely see where the PN-30, with its dependency on knowing when the use the Menu button, would cause some issues for a novice user. I would have expected something of the same thing with the left soft key on the CO -- but maybe they were too busy head-scratching over the RnR

 

I am a little surprised by the success of the OR with novices. I've not used the OR myself. At a recent Geocaching 101 class, had occasion to accompany a new cacher and her brand-new Dakota (which I believe is very similar to the OR in user interface). She was completely lost. And even though I new what functions ought to be there, I had some difficulty finding them. Obviously, your initial instruction must have been much superior to trial and error

 

I'll agree with the OR being a surprise here, I could tell some tales of my experiences with a newb cacher who was being shown how to use her new OR by another who has owned hers for a few months...too funny to see both of them scratching their heads as they tried to walk through some of the basic functions. Granted, this was a pair of women (not meaning any disrespect here, just that most women are slow at techy things as far as I've noted), but you'd think a unit supposing to be so "intuitive" would be simpler for them to use? Took a bit of nudging from myself on a couple things and I don't even own an OR (although I did own one for a few weeks lol).

 

One of my friends bought a PN-40 right after seeing mine, she is still so lost on using it, she doesn't even know most of the simple functions...she IS as slow as a laid brick when it comes to a GPS though, I will testify to that. Smart as a whip when it comes to computers and such....just slow on other tech stuff. I've tried to walk her through some of the stuff, but I just don't have that kind of patience!

[+StarBrand]

WOW nice going StarBrand! And the outcome is interesting indeed.

 

To quantify the 8 testers.. you said none of them were Geocachers (yet) but had any of them ever used a GPSr device before? Maybe just a car navigator type unit and/or a handheld?

 

What age range were they? A mix of techno-geeks and techno-dummies?

None of them had ever used a GPS before. Some co-workers and some stangers on the street. I didn't ask ages but I'd guess at all being between 20 and 45.

[+embra]

StarBrand, I commend you on your methodology. While it's hard to get consistent, balanced, controlled situations, I like it that you are recruiting subjects for your study rather than just doing it all yourself.

[+user13371]

Interesting results but I have a bit of concern on the methodology. Did you have the same 8 testers try each device? Or 8 different folks for each? Sounds like the former.

 

So... did they all get to try them in the same order? I'm wondering if using one device first conditioned their experience and expectations -- which in turn may have affected how well they were able to use the next one you handed them. By the time they were done, they weren't complete novices anymore.

Edited October 21, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Red90]

Interesting to note the differences between experienced and novice cachers. From what I can tell, some experienced cachers actually prefer the CO caching workflow over the OR.

 

On the Colorado, there are three "hidden" geocaching screens that are accessed using simply the rocker. Without being told how to find them, a new user would never know. I suspect many expereinced users don't even know..... This is one of the reasons for the preference. It take along time to find and understand all the features. There are a lot there.

[+Tatooed Lady]

I've got to thank you for doing this...I'm in the market for an upgrade, and wasn't 100% sure what I wanted...I've been leaning toward the Colorado 400t...this brings the Oregon into the mix. I'm looking forward to paperless geocaching, along with all the other features I've found useful with my Legend HCx. Onward and upward!

It's unfortunate that the thread degenerated into bickering, but I'm happy to see that it's back on track! Thanks again for opening my eyes to another option!

[+Searching_ut]

Thanks Starbrand, this is a very well done comparison. You've done a great job of figuring out worthwhile methods of trying to quantify the differences in the units.

[+goldmc1]

Colorado 300 - Oregon 200 - Endura Out&back - Delorme PN30 (anybody want to loan me the latest Triton??)

 

Ok - I have all of the above units and will spend some field time over the next few weeks with them all evaluating things under identical conditions. I have a list of tasks I will put them through (all Geocaching related). I will be back with reports (as objective as I can be) in all of the trials. My goal is to just report observations.

 

Right now - I'd like a few more ideas for comparisons. I'll leave off my list for now and listen for your ideas.

goldmc1 9/26/09 Hey great idea looking forward to the test on the triton 2000, i'm happy with mine.

[+CRF]

I have enjoyed the comparison so far, but I wish that for each test that you had given numeric values to each unit. I would use a rating system from 1 to 10, with 10 being equal to the best unit you have ever used, or at least what you wish it would perform at. Just because a unit has rated last among the units could mean very little if all the units rated between 9 and 8, but would have a major meaning if the units were rated 9, 8, 4 and 3.

 

Since GPS signal performance has so many different factors (including WAAS connection), more then a few caches are need to fully evaluate the units. One good way to simulate deep tree cover is to use the units indoors. Depending on the number of windows, walls and floors, you can vary the signal strength depending on where you are in your house. I found that a Garmin HCx that works in deep tree cover worked inside a window less room with a steel roof, where as a Garmin 60C that will often loose lock in tree cover has a hard time getting signal lock in my living room next near a window.

[+Indotguy]

 

Since GPS signal performance has so many different factors (including WAAS connection), more then a few caches are need to fully evaluate the units. One good way to simulate deep tree cover is to use the units indoors. Depending on the number of windows, walls and floors, you can vary the signal strength depending on where you are in your house. I found that a Garmin HCx that works in deep tree cover worked inside a window less room with a steel roof, where as a Garmin 60C that will often loose lock in tree cover has a hard time getting signal lock in my living room next near a window.

 

An interesting idea which might even be pertinent were Geocaches hidden indoors. My Lowrance GPS will not get a satellite lock inside my home (metal roof and windows) but it does very well in the deep woods under a deciduous canopy. I've found a thousand caches with my H20C. Does that make it 'better' than a unit which has been used to find 500?

[+RRLover]

 

Since GPS signal performance has so many different factors (including WAAS connection), more then a few caches are need to fully evaluate the units. One good way to simulate deep tree cover is to use the units indoors. Depending on the number of windows, walls and floors, you can vary the signal strength depending on where you are in your house. I found that a Garmin HCx that works in deep tree cover worked inside a window less room with a steel roof, where as a Garmin 60C that will often loose lock in tree cover has a hard time getting signal lock in my living room next near a window.

 

An interesting idea which might even be pertinent were Geocaches hidden indoors. My Lowrance GPS will not get a satellite lock inside my home (metal roof and windows) but it does very well in the deep woods under a deciduous canopy. I've found a thousand caches with my H20C. Does that make it 'better' than a unit which has been used to find 500?

Hmmm . . . metal windows! Must be dark in there, huh?

Indoors really isn't pertinent, as much of the signal is reflected off all sorts of ferris pollution.

intermodulating the signals, creating harmonics, and just plain wreaking havoc w/signals.

Under the right circumstances it could show strong signal, but it's just pure reflected phantom.

Not truly an indication of anything other than your antenna can pick up some sort of signal,

and feed it to and confuse the bajeebers out of the processor.

 

Norm

[+eflyguy]

Is this the right place to ask?

 

How do these models compare to the eTrex Vista HCx? In terms of display, and ease of use?

 

I'm very happy with my HCx, but wonder if newer models have better user interfaces, and easier-to-simplify display settings?

..a

[+Native20559]

Is this the right place to ask?

 

How do these models compare to the eTrex Vista HCx? In terms of display, and ease of use?

 

I'm very happy with my HCx, but wonder if newer models have better user interfaces, and easier-to-simplify display settings?

..a

 

Based on my personal experience, they represent the next technological rung on the GPS ladder. Are they better? Some would say so because they have paperless capabilities and touch screen technology. I recently bought a 76CSx for myself and a Vista HCx for my daughter. She loves it and I love mine. Compared to the others, I don't see much of a difference and in some cases, it's superior. I also have the Oregon 200 and Delorme PN-40 and I enjoy them also, but they were bought for other uses, but wouldn't trade the simplicity and accuracy of my 76CSx for either for geocaching (especially while using the macro for paperless on GSAK).

 

Hopefully that gives you some perspective.

 

Be safe.

 

N

[+Indotguy]

 

Since GPS signal performance has so many different factors (including WAAS connection), more then a few caches are need to fully evaluate the units. One good way to simulate deep tree cover is to use the units indoors. Depending on the number of windows, walls and floors, you can vary the signal strength depending on where you are in your house. I found that a Garmin HCx that works in deep tree cover worked inside a window less room with a steel roof, where as a Garmin 60C that will often loose lock in tree cover has a hard time getting signal lock in my living room next near a window.

 

An interesting idea which might even be pertinent were Geocaches hidden indoors. My Lowrance GPS will not get a satellite lock inside my home (metal roof) but it does very well in the deep woods under a deciduous canopy. I've found a thousand caches with my H20C. Does that make it 'better' than a unit which has been used to find 500?

Hmmm . . . metal windows! Must be dark in there, huh?

Indoors really isn't pertinent, as much of the signal is reflected off all sorts of ferris pollution.

intermodulating the signals, creating harmonics, and just plain wreaking havoc w/signals.

Under the right circumstances it could show strong signal, but it's just pure reflected phantom.

Not truly an indication of anything other than your antenna can pick up some sort of signal,

and feed it to and confuse the bajeebers out of the processor.

 

Norm

 

hehe...funny... (edited for content)

[+eflyguy]

Compared to the others, I don't see much of a difference and in some cases, it's superior. I also have the Oregon 200 and Delorme PN-40 and I enjoy them also, but they were bought for other uses, but wouldn't trade the simplicity and accuracy of my 76CSx for either for geocaching (especially while using the macro for paperless on GSAK).

 

Thanks, N. I like to read up at home and go look without paper, but when caching further away, paperless would be nice (I bring them up on my blackberry right now)..

 

Guess I should have stated - I know they are "supposed" to be better, but what do other cachers think.. if you had the money, would you even bother?

..a

[+Rockin Roddy]

PN-40 owner here, I used to go the PDA route for paperless. I must say, I love my PN-40, the paperless caching is far better than lugging about a second electronic device which is not nearly as rugged as the GPS. I found it a hassle to load two devices, I was worried the PDA would bonk on me while out in the field leaving me without a clue what the cache info was..could be the end of a trip or outing. And, what happens if the batteries on the PDA suddenly die (say for instance, you forget to charge it etc)?

 

Having to work with multiple apps to load the PDA is a bummer as well, I found that to be a chore, but I am not very techy... Having ALL the info on one device is convenient in many ways.

 

Also, with the field notes, logging finds is now so much easier! I don't worry about losing the info or forgetting to log finds, they are sitting in queue for me, all lined up in the order of find! Can't get much beter than that!

Edited October 29, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

Since GPS signal performance has so many different factors (including WAAS connection), more then a few caches are need to fully evaluate the units. One good way to simulate deep tree cover is to use the units indoors. Depending on the number of windows, walls and floors, you can vary the signal strength depending on where you are in your house. I found that a Garmin HCx that works in deep tree cover worked inside a window less room with a steel roof, where as a Garmin 60C that will often loose lock in tree cover has a hard time getting signal lock in my living room next near a window.

 

An interesting idea which might even be pertinent were Geocaches hidden indoors. My Lowrance GPS will not get a satellite lock inside my home (metal roof) but it does very well in the deep woods under a deciduous canopy. I've found a thousand caches with my H20C. Does that make it 'better' than a unit which has been used to find 500?

Hmmm . . . metal windows! Must be dark in there, huh?

Indoors really isn't pertinent, as much of the signal is reflected off all sorts of ferris pollution.

intermodulating the signals, creating harmonics, and just plain wreaking havoc w/signals.

Under the right circumstances it could show strong signal, but it's just pure reflected phantom.

Not truly an indication of anything other than your antenna can pick up some sort of signal,

and feed it to and confuse the bajeebers out of the processor.

 

Norm

 

hehe...funny... (edited for content)

Not all that funny when one works behind them daily:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_Com...mation_Facility

[novo58]

Hi ,

 

a complete newbie here. Have been meaning to get into caching for a while. Have found a few caches by trial and error and spolier info from web sites. looking to but my first GPS ...this info is VERY helpful.

keep it coming ......preferably without the bickering.

 

cheers

 

RC ( from Australia)

[ubievol]

PN30 and Oregon -- does either have a jack to attach an external antenna?

[+Native20559]

PN30 and Oregon -- does either have a jack to attach an external antenna?

 

Neither support the external antenna, neither needs one. The 60CSX, 76CSX have the capability for the external but they also really don't need one ( I use one on my 76CSX and love it, lol).

 

N

[+Red90]

....but they also really don't need one ( I use one on my 76CSX and love it, lol).

 

I do not agree. If you are collecting track data while in a vehicle, the external antenna makes all of the difference in the world.

[+jazmin7112]

Fascinating results all around.

 

Interesting to note the differences between experienced and novice cachers. From what I can tell, some experienced cachers actually prefer the CO caching workflow over the OR.

 

I can definitely see where the PN-30, with its dependency on knowing when the use the Menu button, would cause some issues for a novice user. I would have expected something of the same thing with the left soft key on the CO -- but maybe they were too busy head-scratching over the RnR

 

I am a little surprised by the success of the OR with novices. I've not used the OR myself. At a recent Geocaching 101 class, had occasion to accompany a new cacher and her brand-new Dakota (which I believe is very similar to the OR in user interface). She was completely lost. And even though I new what functions ought to be there, I had some difficulty finding them. Obviously, your initial instruction must have been much superior to trial and error

 

I'll agree with the OR being a surprise here, I could tell some tales of my experiences with a newb cacher who was being shown how to use her new OR by another who has owned hers for a few months...too funny to see both of them scratching their heads as they tried to walk through some of the basic functions. Granted, this was a pair of women (not meaning any disrespect here, just that most women are slow at techy things as far as I've noted), but you'd think a unit supposing to be so "intuitive" would be simpler for them to use? Took a bit of nudging from myself on a couple things and I don't even own an OR (although I did own one for a few weeks lol).

 

One of my friends bought a PN-40 right after seeing mine, she is still so lost on using it, she doesn't even know most of the simple functions...she IS as slow as a laid brick when it comes to a GPS though, I will testify to that. Smart as a whip when it comes to computers and such....just slow on other tech stuff. I've tried to walk her through some of the stuff, but I just don't have that kind of patience!

 

As a female, here's a question:

I usually read the owner's manuals for most "techy" things. Are the directions to use all of these units fairly straight-forward? I only have a car GPS unit and didn't bother to read them because it's pretty obvious, but with something with a lot of features, I'm interested in how difficult it really is to figure everything out.

 

I've been thinking about buying a Colorado 300 since it's gone on sale at my work, and this is all helping out, thanks for posting all of this!

[+StarBrand]

The Garmin Oregon is the easiest unit to figure out and use of the ones I tested but the Colorado isn't too terribly far behind. Some things are not terribly intuitive but drop by here in the forums and somebody can help you out with the details.

[mud4x4]

Could you do a comparative on usability out-of-the box and ease of software/map downloading? And maybe even cheapest to update/upgrade on maps?

 

Will there be a soon/future test on the PN-40 and some of the newer model Garmins (400,500,550,etc.)?

 

I appreciate the tests you've done StarBrand.

[07012005af]

Big problem was the well documented "freeze" of the compass arrow that can last 30 to 45 seconds at a time despite the rest of the data on the compass screen continuing to display a countdown and heading change (that will get lost fast!!) consistently.

 

 

This "freeze" of the compass arrow is due to the type of compass that is inside the unit. The Endura Out&Back's compass is updated by the satelites.

[+TotemLake]

Big problem was the well documented "freeze" of the compass arrow that can last 30 to 45 seconds at a time despite the rest of the data on the compass screen continuing to display a countdown and heading change (that will get lost fast!!) consistently.

 

 

This "freeze" of the compass arrow is due to the type of compass that is inside the unit. The Endura Out&Back's compass is updated by the satelites.

To which unit are you referencing the freeze?

[+Indotguy]

Big problem was the well documented "freeze" of the compass arrow that can last 30 to 45 seconds at a time despite the rest of the data on the compass screen continuing to display a countdown and heading change (that will get lost fast!!) consistently.

 

 

This "freeze" of the compass arrow is due to the type of compass that is inside the unit. The Endura Out&Back's compass is updated by the satelites.

To which unit are you referencing the freeze?

 

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I presume the poster is alluding to the "freeze" issue reported with the navigation rose on the Out & Back.

[+TotemLake]

Big problem was the well documented "freeze" of the compass arrow that can last 30 to 45 seconds at a time despite the rest of the data on the compass screen continuing to display a countdown and heading change (that will get lost fast!!) consistently.

 

 

This "freeze" of the compass arrow is due to the type of compass that is inside the unit. The Endura Out&Back's compass is updated by the satelites.

To which unit are you referencing the freeze?

 

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I presume the poster is alluding to the "freeze" issue reported with the navigation rose on the Out & Back.

Thanks. Sometimes I tend to mis-read the post. I can see it now.

[+StarBrand]

....This "freeze" of the compass arrow is due to the type of compass that is inside the unit. The Endura Out&Back's compass is updated by the satelites.

I know how it gets updates but despite a clear view of the sats and the countdown of distance to the cache changing - the compass arrow on my out&back will fail to update its pointing direction on occasion for up to 45 seconds.

 

or at least it did...

 

The new version 1.2 firmware seems better in my limited testing.

[39_Steps]

"Failure" to update immediately after the user stops walking sounds like a good thing, not a bad thing.

[+StarBrand]

"Failure" to update immediately after the user stops walking sounds like a good thing, not a bad thing.

Not just when you stop - it was happening while moving at a brisk pace - with a clear view of the sky and while the coutdown distance to the cache continued to countdown because I knew I was walking in the right direction even though the arrow pointed well off to the side. The fact that the countdown kept working tells me it still saw the sats and still was getting readings - it simply failed to update the pointer on the compass to indicate the correct direction.

 

Again.... seeming cured with the 1.2 update.