iPhone GPS vs. the others

[+Victaman]

My wife and I just started Geocaching and are really enjoying it. We both have iPhones equiped with the Groundspeak app. We have found a few caches but have been stumped by many more. My wife thinks that, perhaps, the GPS in the iPhone is not as accurate as purchasing a GPS device that's actually made for that single purpose. There have been several times that, while using the compass feature, the coordinates will "jump" around making it frustrating to follow. Before I go out and spend as much or more on something (as opposed to the cost of the iPhone) I was curious if anyone else has experience with the iPhone compaired to a standard GPS device. As I said, our only experience so far has been on the iPhone. I worry about buying a GPS device and having identical results. Thanks for any help or advice.

 

Victor

[+CanDMan47]

This topic has been debated since before I've been here. Let me state that I cache with the iPhone exclusively. I have never used any other GPS for any reason. If you are patient enough to wait for the blue dot to catch up to you, the iPhone is very accurate, assuming the cache hider used the correct coordinates. My guess is, and this is not meant to be mean or condescending, my guess is you don't know what you are looking for, or it was hidden in a manner you don't expect, or haven't come across yet. You'll get a lot of people suggesting you start off with 1 difficulty and 1 terrain (1/1). This is not bad advice, but I'd say beginners can strive for 2/2s as well. You'll also hear stay away from micros and nanos. I feel they are just as easy if you know what you are looking for, and how people hide them. Before you go out and buy an actual handheld GPS, I'd advise you to continue using the iPhone until you know for sure this is an activity you want to continue. As you find more, you'll become accustom to the way caches are hidden by others in your area.

 

I agree with the compass part though. I don't even use it. I have a very cheap compass I take with me in the woods just in case I get turned around to many times.

 

Good luck and have fun.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

My luck has been this: The compass in the actual app works well, but if you're not out in the wide open, it will take some time to figure out where to point you and even then it might be off. What I do as far as that is concerned, get to the general area, set my phone down and start searching, come back a minute or two later and see what it says. At that point it should have calmed down enough to help you out.

A GPS device is going to work much better than the iPhone for getting you close. Usually my iPhone does the trick, but there are areas out in the middle of nowhere where I wish I had a legit GPS device and not another DNF on my list.

Like CanDMan47 suggested, start small and go bigger as you learn the tricks. If you're really stuck on something, 75% of the time you wouldn't even know you were walking on top of it, you just dont have the experience to find them, it's not the GPS device. I still have that issue. I'm under 100 finds and I keep finding new things that I'm surprised I even find.

 

good luck!

[+Wrgwayandhobolos]

OK just my 2 cents worth all i cache with is the iphone and i have found another great app that helps out alot it is called motion x gps i have been really lucky with that one but i also use the geocaching app as well i just switch back and forth. the compass on the motion x app "to Me is alot better" you may want to give it a try

thanks William "ki4mjo"

[+briansnat]

My wife thinks that, perhaps, the GPS in the iPhone is not as accurate as purchasing a GPS device that's actually made for that single purpose

 

Your wife is correct. You still get some jumping around with hand held unit but you will generally see increased accuracy and far better reception. Also you don't have to worry about your batteries running down fast and

the fact that the iPhone is a bit fragile for serious outdoor use.

[+kimgh]

My wife and I just started Geocaching and are really enjoying it. We both have iPhones equiped with the Groundspeak app. We have found a few caches but have been stumped by many more. My wife thinks that, perhaps, the GPS in the iPhone is not as accurate as purchasing a GPS device that's actually made for that single purpose. There have been several times that, while using the compass feature, the coordinates will "jump" around making it frustrating to follow. Before I go out and spend as much or more on something (as opposed to the cost of the iPhone) I was curious if anyone else has experience with the iPhone compaired to a standard GPS device. As I said, our only experience so far has been on the iPhone. I worry about buying a GPS device and having identical results. Thanks for any help or advice.

 

Victor

 

I use both: I have a Garmin GPSmap 60CS and an iPhone with the Groundspeak app. Here's my take: the Garmin is definitely more accurate, but the iPhone is helpful because it has a real compass that can point you directly to the coords. You have to be moving for the Garmin to point accurately.

 

So they both have their place.

 

I always have the iPhone with me, but I don't always have the GPSr, so if I'm somewhere with a few minutes to look for a cache, having a way to find a nearby one (with all the details) is very nice!

[+Curioddity]

My guess is, and this is not meant to be mean or condescending, my guess is you don't know what you are looking for, or it was hidden in a manner you don't expect, or haven't come across yet.

Yup. An experienced geocacher is a lot quicker to put the GPS device away and use their geosenses to find a cache once they have a reasonable idea where GZ is. A GPS won't find a cache for you and it doesn't much matter what kind you're using. A GPS will only show you roughly where to look, and then experience (geosenses) needs to take over.

 

And the only way I know to gain experience is to keep finding caches. I didn't really start "getting it" until I had 50 finds or so, and it's gotten easier and easier with every find since then. Some hides still stump me, but as often as not it's because I'm not paying attention or assumptions are clouding my mind. Once I clear my mind of all the junk and focus on the job at hand, I can usually find most caches in pretty short order now.

 

Pete

[+roiegat]

I think at best condition an Iphone will get as accurate as 55 feet. From looking into some handheld GPS's I think 12 feet accuracy is good.

 

Having said that I've found all 18 caches I have to my name right now with the Iphone. I use both the official app and Geosphere. I like Geosphere because it does additional waypoints nicer and it's compass has a range to walk in. The minus of Geosphere is that there is a lot of prep work to use it, you need to download the locations. But it's worth it. having both apps helps a lot.

 

Now after spending the money to get my wife and I Iphone 3GS's I'm not in a financial position to pony up the money for a good GPS that will get me 40 feet close. I would like to hone my geocaching senses to learn to find caches with a 55 foot accurate GPS.

[DesignShark]

wow. I have an HTC Dream, and it rocks. I often get readings within 1 meter, with a variance of +-2 meters.

 

Geobeagle is way better than any other application that I have seen out there and is free. I love being able to log my finds/DNF's immediately, as well and pull up any information that I need from the site immediately.

 

I wish there was a dedicated area for the android platform like the iPhone. I will gladly match my phone against the iphone and even most other GPS's.

[+briansnat]

I use both: I have a Garmin GPSmap 60CS and an iPhone with the Groundspeak app. Here's my take: the Garmin is definitely more accurate, but the iPhone is helpful because it has a real compass that can point you directly to the coords. You have to be moving for the Garmin to point accurately.

 

The Garmin 60CS has an electronic compass. You must have a 60C which doesn't.

[+AbMagFab]

Also note that the iPhone 3GS is very different from the 3G. The 3GS has a real magnetic compass, so it's a lot better than the 3G "fake" compass.

 

I use both, but rely mostly on my Garmin. Main reasons:

1) Battery life of the Garmin is like 18 hours with lithium batteries

2) Garmin is accurate to ~12 feet, iPhone at best ~55 feet

3) Garmin is much quicker to lock on, and much more reliable

 

However for urban caches, the iPhone google maps hybrid view can be great, and often more help than actual coordinates.

[+Curioddity]

wow. I have an HTC Dream, and it rocks. I often get readings within 1 meter, with a variance of +-2 meters.

If you're referring to the little display in your GPS application that says how accurate your device is at the time, it's pretty much junk information. The same holds true for every dedicated GPS unit I've ever used.

 

Take my Oregon 400t for example. I saved a waypoint with it held right over a U.S. Geological Survey benchmark on a local peak last weekend. I had waypoint averaging and WAAS turned on and my Oregon was reporting a 40' accuracy right before and after I saved the waypoint. When I got home I compared the waypoint coordinates with the official benchmark datasheet in ngs.noaa.gov and my waypoint was within .01 seconds longitude and .03 seconds latitude or, in layman's terms, less than 3 feet from being exactly on the money.

 

So much for 40' accuracy!

 

I've lost track of the times I've performed this same test and gotten the same results with the Oregon and several other GPS devices I've owned over the years. I don't participate in online benchmarking (like I should), but I've been documenting all the benchmarks I've found since the Garmin GPS12 was the newest thing on the market and this discrepancy between saved coordinates and that silly accuracy display seems to be the rule instead of the exception. I've also lost track of the times that my GPSr has led me right to a cache when the accuracy display was saying 50-70 feet or more acuracy.

 

The bottom line is that accuracy display on most consumer-grade GPS units is meaningless and unimportant, yet people insist on making a big deal about it. It's also important to understand that no GPSr has ever found a cache. The GPSr simply leads a human to where he or she should start the search.

 

Pete

[+Prime Suspect]

If you're referring to the little display in your GPS application that says how accurate your device is at the time, it's pretty much junk information. The same holds true for every dedicated GPS unit I've ever used.

 

Take my Oregon 400t for example. I saved a waypoint with it held right over a U.S. Geological Survey benchmark on a local peak last weekend. I had waypoint averaging and WAAS turned on and my Oregon was reporting a 40' accuracy right before and after I saved the waypoint. When I got home I compared the waypoint coordinates with the official benchmark datasheet in ngs.noaa.gov and my waypoint was within .01 seconds longitude and .03 seconds latitude or, in layman's terms, less than 3 feet from being exactly on the money.

 

So much for 40' accuracy!

Did you think that you should be 40' away? That's not what the number represents. It's similar to a weatherman's forecast. If the weatherman says there's a 90% chance of rain, and it doesn't rain, it doesn't mean he was wrong. Just because there's only a 10% chance of something happening, doesn't mean it will never happen.

 

Likewise, the "accuracy" number is based on a percent chance that something will happen. In this case, the GPS was telling you that there's a 90% chance that the actual location is within 40' of the location that the GPS is indicating. And guess what? IT WAS RIGHT!!!

 

The percentage is fixed (and generally not revealed to the public, but it's believed that 90% is the value used for the GPS60 series), and only the distance changes.

[+Curioddity]

I stand by my observation that for all practical purposes, the reading is meaningless and certainly not something which should be considered when comparing the real-world performance of one GPSr to another.

 

Pete

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Likewise, the "accuracy" number is based on a percent chance that something will happen. In this case, the GPS was telling you that there's a 90% chance that the actual location is within 40' of the location that the GPS is indicating. And guess what? IT WAS RIGHT!!!

 

The percentage is fixed (and generally not revealed to the public, but it's believed that 90% is the value used for the GPS60 series), and only the distance changes.

 

Interesting. So if Company A uses 90% and Company B uses , say, 70% the one that uses 70% could produce inflated accuracy readings and cause the consumer to believe that they are getting better accuracy when using a GPS from Company B.

[+Prime Suspect]

 

Likewise, the "accuracy" number is based on a percent chance that something will happen. In this case, the GPS was telling you that there's a 90% chance that the actual location is within 40' of the location that the GPS is indicating. And guess what? IT WAS RIGHT!!!

 

The percentage is fixed (and generally not revealed to the public, but it's believed that 90% is the value used for the GPS60 series), and only the distance changes.

 

Interesting. So if Company A uses 90% and Company B uses , say, 70% the one that uses 70% could produce inflated accuracy readings and cause the consumer to believe that they are getting better accuracy when using a GPS from Company B.

Yes.

[+FizorZed]

For what it's worth I have had good success with the iPhone geocache app. The map and compass have been helpful and most of the time it's me overthinking a cache location and not the phone that gets me stumped on a find. I agree that MotionX is a great app for gathering coordinates and saving kore detailed information about a location.

[+mike-ski]

After using my 3GS iPhone with MotionX I'm not liking the iPhone for the sport. It's great for some ad-hock type situations or off the cuff caching but for day in and day out I'd get something else. That being said I do like MotionX. Couple of other things...the phone will get extra warm. I depend on my iphone for business communication and in the end it's more important to me for it to be used for that and not a pocket warmer for my recreation. Plus the battery life really sucks.

 

I don't have the screen capture with me here or I would post it. It is of a cache I went to twice and the drift between the two tracks was horrendous. Personally the phone may take a little fun out of the venture of caching. I don't want to worry a my GPSr...to me it shouldn't be apart of the challenge....at least not that much.

[+roiegat]

To take a screenshots on the iPhone hit the Home button and power at the same time

[+Artsifrtsy]

I have cached with a Magellan Explorist, an Garmin Rino 530 HCx, and a Colorado 400t - I have resisted selling them until I could prove that my iPhone 3GS was an adequate device - I found 10 saturday with the iPhone and I'm having a GPS sale:)

 

You can download your PQ right into the app so that you have your info if you lose service. I have cached along side a Colorado and there is a slight accuracy differnce - this mostly resolves if you slow down and let it catch up with you - once you do that I found that the iPhone was very close to the Colorado - getting me to within 10 feet of the cache. I agree that the ranges onscreen are not very accurate.

 

Love the iPhone - taking it out again this weekend - get a car charge and your battery issues are solved.

[Ironsky]

First off...Hello to everyone out there!

 

I'm brand spanking new to the sport as well. I actually found the GC app in the App store which is what got me interested in the first place. I went out today for the first time and to my surprise I actually had some success. I found both of the caches I set out to find. The iPhone directed me to the exact spot of the first cache which was pretty awesome. The second find posed a bit of a problem though. I had the same bouncing around that you did. However, like many of the other posters have said, I let the phone catch up to me and the compass once again pointed me to the the proper location. So far so good...

 

Good luck on your future hunts!

[+roiegat]

Welcome to the sport! It's a lot of fun and its get you out and about.

[+Blevdeb]

First off...Hello to everyone out there!

 

I'm brand spanking new to the sport as well. I actually found the GC app in the App store which is what got me interested in the first place. I went out today for the first time and to my surprise I actually had some success. I found both of the caches I set out to find. The iPhone directed me to the exact spot of the first cache which was pretty awesome. The second find posed a bit of a problem though. I had the same bouncing around that you did. However, like many of the other posters have said, I let the phone catch up to me and the compass once again pointed me to the the proper location. So far so good...

 

Good luck on your future hunts!

 

Hello - new to the sport also. Went out with some friends this weekend for my first time - we found 12 - I don't know that I would have found them all because of what some others mentioned in the threads - I had no experience to tell me what I might be looking for and how it could be hidden. We were using the iPhone with GC app in conjunction with a "yellow" hand held gps and it worked well - we could search for local ones and descriptions and clues on the iPhone and then use the gps to track the coordinates. I only have an iphone, so we'll see how I do on my own over the next couple of weeks. Battery life of iPhone is not very long when using the app all the time. Good luck and have fun

[+Chewy_06]

We started using the motionX iPhone app, which thankfully guided us to our first find. I was so excited that the next day the daughter and I dragged the wife with us & tried for a couple more. Which we didnt find.

 

I've got to give props to the people who are relying on their iPhones as their primary GPSr. We found it just didnt have the battery life, accuracy or responsiveness to help get us to the search area consistently & relatively quickly made the decision to buy a dedicated GPSr (Garmin 60Cx) which we absolutely love & has made all the difference in getting us to the right area.

 

For many hides, getting within a couple hundred feet is all you need to be able to tell where to start searching. We've come across quite a few where narrowing the search down to a 20' diameter has been a huge help (and others where it wasnt enough of a help for us!).

 

We also recently purchased an Oregon 200 (on sale from Costco) to complement the 60Cx & we've been doing some qualitative comparisons - we're finding that in tree cover, the 60Cx is by far the most consistent with the Oregon being hit and miss. The iPhone has been so bad that we stopped even trying to compare it with the other two.

 

If we had both of our Garmins go down, we'd probably stop caching while we sought replacements / had them fixed versus trying to use the iPhone.b That said, I do still bring the iPhone with me, it's useful for pulling cache pages up from the site / by HTMP via air shairing on the fly and has saved us a couple of DNF's on searches that were going far wrong.

[+tom tea]

I'm pretty new to geocaching and I've used my iPhone 3G to some degree with all my finds so far but over the past few months, the GPS on my phone has turned terrible (iPhone is like 16 months old?). All it seems to do at the moment no matter how long I leave it, it just sticks me in the middle of the nearest town.

 

I find it easier to find the cache in the Geocache app, read the description and then view the cache position in safari/google maps. You rarely get a cache which is dead on the GPS spot, plus using the description and your common/geo-senses and having a little search is a bit more fun : D

[+Fredact]

Started about a month ago, and only use the Iphone. Went to an event and learned more about the sport from veterans, and they were talking about downloading files and things to transfer to their devices, and I was just amazed at how much easier it seems to do that on the IPhone--there is no preparation at all needed--just go caching, and every piece of information is right there--clear down to the hint, but only if you want to see it.

[+Curioddity]

After reading this thread and other threads like it, I'm convinced that the newer someone is to geocaching, the more likely they are to think the iPhone is a good primary geocaching tool. And that's OK! What matters is you're geocaching and apparently enjoying it, and as far as I'm concerned, that's a lot more important than what you're caching with.

 

But you iPhone users need to understand something: You're going to play hell convincing most seasoned cachers that an iPhone is even in the same league with a decent dedicated GPS unit. The iPhone may have a dedicated unit beat when it comes to convenience, but convenience typically begins to take a back seat to performance once a cacher becomes serious about the game.

 

Pete