PN-40 Question

[+aclakey]

I am in the market for a new GPS and am curious about the PN-40. I am in the process of reading information on the site but have a few questions.

 

Can you toggle between the different maps, meaning can you have a topo map loaded then toggle to an aerial with contours ect?

 

I have quite a bit of experience with the 60CSx, how do the compare? Strengths and weaknesses of each

 

Which would you buy between the PN-40 or Garmin Oregon and why?

 

Thanks for the information.

[+3doxies]

Yes, you can toggle between the maps you have uploaded to your PN-40.

 

I have both the PN-40 and the 60 CsX. They are both good machines, but...different. The PN-40 offers the ability of truly paperless caching - the entire cache page, logs, etc, as well as the use of field notes to log find status, notes, etc. Both are very accurate instruments...I've encountered no difficulties with either. The PN-40 may be slightly more stable in certain conditions or as you get very close to GZ. The PN-40 screen is a bit smaller than that of the 60CsX, but I find it just as easy to read if not moreso. The 60CsX wins hands down on battery life. Both are easily hooked to your computer via USB - the 60 by standard mini-USB, the PN via proprietary cable interface. Both hold 1000 geocaches. Caches can be loaded individually into the 60CsX directly from cache page, or en masse directly from GSAK or PQ, while the PN-40 can be loaded individually directly from the cache page, or en masse thru the accompanying Topo software or (at present) via a Java script app...release of another DeLorme software tool for loading caches en masse seems imminent ($10 one-time fee, purportedly).

 

One big difference is that the PNs come with Topo included in the purchase price, providing routable detailed street and trail maps a no additional cost. Had to seperately purchase City Nav to get detailed routable streets for the 60CsX.

 

Our 60 CsX hasn't seen much activity since shortly after purchasing the PN-40...relegated to backup role. As to OR...I'm happy with the PN40, and after caching with owners of ORs, that hasn't changed, nor am I inclined to purchase an OR.

[+Rockin Roddy]

The enmasse loading of caches to the PN-40 $10 charge, are you talking about the shipping charges for the new TOPO 8? That's not a fee to use, it's the cost of receiveing a $100 software upgrade (which is free for all PN-40 purchasers in the last 6 months). Cache Register should be out any time now, and unless things have changed, I've not seen a word about a fee to use.

[+Rockin Roddy]

The choice is the OPs, pay much more for a bigger (harder to read) screen or buy the PN which comes with all you'll need right in the box! I chose the PN and never looked back! I did think about buying a CO once, merely to see what some thought was so much better about that unit over the PN, but I came to my senses!! Can't put aerial imagery on the Garmins (although some have reported they can, not a single person has produced evidence of this), and I LOVE the aerials!

 

The PN-40 is the last unit I will need to buy for several years to come!

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

I like the Oregon for its large touchscreen interface and how quickly and easily I can load data (geocaches, waypoints, tracks, etc.) to it. The PN-40 is awesome for its bright screen, aerial images, and USGS topos. Too bad we can't have both. Yet.

 

Rockin Roddy. The MOAGU homepage has screenshots of aerials on a Garmin... http://moagu.com/

[+Rockin Roddy]

I like the Oregon for its large touchscreen interface and how quickly and easily I can load data (geocaches, waypoints, tracks, etc.) to it. The PN-40 is awesome for its bright screen, aerial images, and USGS topos. Too bad we can't have both. Yet.

 

Rockin Roddy. The MOAGU homepage has screenshots of aerials on a Garmin... http://moagu.com/

 

For a fee which is said to be introductory and, from the pics shown, they look grainy? Could just be the pics I suppose (but all three pics really look grainy compared to what I have on my PN-40)! Seems also that these are slow slow slow to download (wonder how they compare to the TOPO software) and you are limited in ability to download (all this info from the FAQ link).

 

Seems maybe some Garmins can use this, but not sure how easy and how good the maps! Would be interesting to see how these look in real use and to hear of the process to load these!

[+KJcachers]

The enmasse loading of caches to the PN-40 $10 charge, are you talking about the shipping charges for the new TOPO 8? That's not a fee to use, it's the cost of receiveing a $100 software upgrade (which is free for all PN-40 purchasers in the last 6 months). Cache Register should be out any time now, and unless things have changed, I've not seen a word about a fee to use.

 

Chip from DeLorme mentioned a $9.95 fee during his demonstration at Geowoodstock 7. there is a very active thread about this in the PN-40 section of the DeLorme forums.

Edited May 29, 2009 by KJcachers

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

For a fee which is said to be introductory and, from the pics shown, they look grainy? Could just be the pics I suppose (but all three pics really look grainy compared to what I have on my PN-40)! Seems also that these are slow slow slow to download (wonder how they compare to the TOPO software) and you are limited in ability to download (all this info from the FAQ link).

 

Seems maybe some Garmins can use this, but not sure how easy and how good the maps! Would be interesting to see how these look in real use and to hear of the process to load these!

 

Oh, there's no doubt that the PN-40 is superior for aerials. All your points are quite valid.

 

Edited to add quote.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Redwoods Mtn Biker

[+user13371]

$10? ... Cache Register ... unless things have changed, I've not seen a word about a fee to use..

Yup, it'll cost $10, unless DeLorme changes their mind about it.

 

http://forums.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=18924

 

But -- it'll be worth it for a lot of cachers; coolest/easiest way to load PQs. At least until other vendors catch up

 

EDIT TO ADD ... Cache Register is due next Wednesday!

Edited May 30, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+dakboy]

The enmasse loading of caches to the PN-40 $10 charge, are you talking about the shipping charges for the new TOPO 8? That's not a fee to use, it's the cost of receiveing a $100 software upgrade (which is free for all PN-40 purchasers in the last 6 months). Cache Register should be out any time now, and unless things have changed, I've not seen a word about a fee to use.

Chip announced at GeoWoodstock that Cache Register will be a $9.95 download. Confirmed on the DeLorme forum.

[+embra]

Can you toggle between the different maps, meaning can you have a topo map loaded then toggle to an aerial with contours ect?

Although you can switch between them, it can be a little awkward depending on what you want to do. There are, of course, multiple kinds of maps that one can load to cover a given area. You have to prioritize the display of these map types in the PN-40 by layers, meaning that if the PN-40 finds map data for the first layer, that is what it shows. If no layer #1, then layer #2, or then layer #3, etc.

 

It's a pretty easy matter to hit Menu/Turn Imagery On(Off) to toggle between the vectorized 1:100000TopoUSA data and the rasterized imagery that has the highest priority. If, however, you want to switch between USGS topo 1:24000 and the color satellite imagery or the Hi-Res imagery, then you have to go in and re-order the layer rankings. That's a bit cumbersome, and a frequent suggestion/request that has been expressed is to have a quicker/easier way to make that kind of switch.

 

I find that my use is tempered by the ease of use factor. The way I have set my device up is to have different imagery cuts for different zoom levels...so, for example, I can have imagery on and see USGS quads at 1/2 and 1/4 mile zoom levels, but Color Satellite imagery shows at 640 ft and 320 ft zooms. Or I can turn imagery off and see the USATopo maps at any of those zooms.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Can you toggle between the different maps, meaning can you have a topo map loaded then toggle to an aerial with contours ect?

Although you can switch between them, it can be a little awkward depending on what you want to do. There are, of course, multiple kinds of maps that one can load to cover a given area. You have to prioritize the display of these map types in the PN-40 by layers, meaning that if the PN-40 finds map data for the first layer, that is what it shows. If no layer #1, then layer #2, or then layer #3, etc.

 

It's a pretty easy matter to hit Menu/Turn Imagery On(Off) to toggle between the vectorized 1:100000TopoUSA data and the rasterized imagery that has the highest priority. If, however, you want to switch between USGS topo 1:24000 and the color satellite imagery or the Hi-Res imagery, then you have to go in and re-order the layer rankings. That's a bit cumbersome, and a frequent suggestion/request that has been expressed is to have a quicker/easier way to make that kind of switch.

 

I find that my use is tempered by the ease of use factor. The way I have set my device up is to have different imagery cuts for different zoom levels...so, for example, I can have imagery on and see USGS quads at 1/2 and 1/4 mile zoom levels, but Color Satellite imagery shows at 640 ft and 320 ft zooms. Or I can turn imagery off and see the USATopo maps at any of those zooms.

Allow me to add that these assessments are not comparative as these features are not implementable on other handheld GPSrs.

Therefore, I do not see them as reasons to aquire another model in preference to a PN-40.

[+Maingray]

Very GENERAL pros/cons in a nutshell from someone who has used both OR and PN-40 for caching:

 

OR:

 

Pros: Nice size rugged unit, large screen. Touchscreen is a pro in my book, very intuitive interface for caching. Fully paperless able to either drag and drop gc.com Pocket queries, native GSAk communication or cache-by-cache from gc.com pages. Full cache descriptions of caches plus child waypoint handling. Make comments and upload back at home on gc.com. Active and responsive development team. Very large community of free US and international maps available. Mac versions of all software + maps available. Wireless communication with other ORs or COs. High accuracy. Good battery life.

 

Cons: screen is dull compared to PN-40. Feels a little dumbed down in straight GPS-features compared to PN-40, but there have been many additions to the features over the last few weeks. In box basemap is poor, but premium mapping solutions allow this unit to auto-ruote extremely well with huge POI coverage, much like a car nuvi. Many many free pre-cut easy-to-install maps now available covering the whole world.

 

PN-40:

 

pros: Quality aerial + topo imagery available for a cheap subscription. With a new (unsupported) Beta, fully paperless able to either drag and drop gc.com Pocket queries, via macros, cache-by-cache from gc.com pages or soon through a PQ-based applet that will push many cache descriptions to the unit (one time $10 fee). Full descriptions of caches. Make comments and upload back at home on gc.com. Active and responsive development team. Routeable basemap included. High accuracy. Orange!

 

Cons: reliability is still a big hmmm based on quite a few posts recently. Battery life poor out the box. Build quality feels poor. Small screen. If you travel and want the imagery prepare to buy lots of SD cards and time to cut and prep subscription maps. Routeable baemap included is poor for road navigation (topo based inaccuracies and poor POI coverage) and no premium option to improve this. Maps available are limited to USA, unless you want to scan your own and buy a $99 mapping software upgrade. Mac support via Parallels. Topo7 is too central still for it's operation, and it's a wacky program (flame on!). Orange!

 

I went with the OR because I'm a freak who refuses to use a separate car unit for routing, and I felt the paperless mode is more mature than the PN-40. It still feels better using the OR's caching UI...has a few more extras like cache run totals, permanent pointer on a geocaching "dashboard' pointing to the nearest geocacheregardless of where you are navigating to and road to hiking transition is well handled by single click profiles. I also just fell in love with the touch screen, being able to touch a cache on a scrollable map and bring up full cache info was worth the price of admission to me.

 

Map switching..yes , like the 60csx... map..setup..choose which layers you want shown. Easy workarounds to combine maps so you can have e.g. topo contours overlaid on road maps.

 

Bottom line... both PN-40 and Oregon do paperless caching extremely well, I think both units are now pushing the envelope as to what is achievable for paperless caching. PN-40's unique forte is the aerial imagery. Oregon's forte is the UI, and the fact (for me) that it's more than a competent road auto-router (with a premium U$ road map).

 

They are both very different beasts to the 60, Greg (3doxies) up there covered that really well. One thing worth pointing out is that you'll likely feel right at home with PN-40's UI, same "page layout" as the 60.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Maingray

[+aclakey]

Thank you all for the information so far.

[+twolpert]

PN-40 <snip>

Maps available are limited to USA, unless you want to scan your own and buy a $99 mapping software upgrade.

T8 includes routable roads for Canada and Mexico. No idea how good or bad they are, but no reason to believe they are any better than the US stuff. Still no non-US imagery.

 

I own both a CO and a PN-40. If road routing is important to you, the OR with the extra CN cartography is definitely the way to go. If imagery is important and you limit yourself to the US, then the PN-40 has an edge. Both have good paperless caching capabilities.

[+Cache Liberation Front]

Ugh, similar to the OP, I'm trying to decide between the Oregon 300 and the PN-40.

 

Honestly, I just can't decide! Heh.

 

Delorme folks keep talking about "Cache Register." Is this supposed to be a "GSAK for the Delorme?" Erm, does GSAK work with the Delorme? I can't imagine not using GSAK, I love all its capabilities.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Ugh, similar to the OP, I'm trying to decide between the Oregon 300 and the PN-40.

 

Honestly, I just can't decide! Heh.

 

Delorme folks keep talking about "Cache Register." Is this supposed to be a "GSAK for the Delorme?" Erm, does GSAK work with the Delorme? I can't imagine not using GSAK, I love all its capabilities.

Yes, most folks who have been using GSAK are continuing to use it prior to using Cache Register to upload the GSAK output to their PN-40s.

 

Additionally, it enhances the uploading of Field Notes from one's PN-40 to GC.com.

 

If you look at the nearby thread announcing its availability, you will notice that most are favorably impressed with it.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=223285

 

Well, now that I read that thread again, most of those that have actually installed it and used it.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+Maingray]

Yes, as TCP said, CR will take your GSAK-exported .gpx, which is A Good Thing .

 

No native GSAK -> Pn-40 uploading (yet..)