How would you handle this?

[Mushtang]

The people that seem to be the loudest to shout that the numbers shouldn't matter seem to be the ones that get upset the most when a player enjoys increasing their find count.

Have you considered perhaps that what bothers us is the idea that numbers matter so much to others that they often engage in practices that we feel are detrimental to the game?

I considered it. If it only bothered you when that actually happened, then that would make sense. But I'd estimate over 90% of the complaints I read here about people being into it for the numbers, and how bad that is, involves nothing detrimental to the game at all. Most of the time you folks just act like you're upset that someone else has a higher score, even though the numbers aren't a score at all.

[+The finch farmers]

I considered it. If it only bothered you when that actually happened, then that would make sense. But I'd estimate over 90% of the complaints I read here about people being into it for the numbers, and how bad that is, involves nothing detrimental to the game at all. Most of the time you folks just act like you're upset that someone else has a higher score, even though the numbers aren't a score at all.

 

In the 4th post I stated I looked up to these folks. I also felt they were like my mentors. I had never even talked to them before. I tried to follow their posts, logs etc. I wanted to learn more and felt this was a good way to do it. Their numbers to me, WOW was I impressed. The accomplishments WOW. I thought a lot of planning and work went into their cache runs. There was so much I could learn from them.

A DNF IS A DNF! I am not mad about their numbers it's how they got them that upsets me.

I had a thought yesterday when a new cache was published. I can grab a film can, sign a piece of paper, put it in the film can, head to the store to run my errands and toss the can out the window on my way. Return home and log FTF. The problem I ran into was the new cache was over 20 miles away and the store was only 2 miles. I chose not to do it. Does that make me a puritan? It is all the same. Call it what you will.

[+TrailGators]

The people that seem to be the loudest to shout that the numbers shouldn't matter seem to be the ones that get upset the most when a player enjoys increasing their find count.

Have you considered perhaps that what bothers us is the idea that numbers matter so much to others that they often engage in practices that we feel are detrimental to the game?

I considered it. If it only bothered you when that actually happened, then that would make sense. But I'd estimate over 90% of the complaints I read here about people being into it for the numbers, and how bad that is, involves nothing detrimental to the game at all. Most of the time you folks just act like you're upset that someone else has a higher score, even though the numbers aren't a score at all.

It is annoying when it happens but the guidelines clearly tell us what to do when "it" happens. I say "it" because "it" is basically cheating/lying. While we were caching yesterday a friend of mine was auditing logs for a cacher that has been racking up hundreds of finds. He was suspicious and it turns out that the guy did not sign most of the caches that we found and he claimed to find. It bothered my friend but I really didn't care because I just view it as yet another scumbag. The world is full of them. If I find out about someone doing that on one of my caches then I will simply follow the guidelines.

[+Vater_Araignee]

The puritans claim that they are not into numbers, but in fact they show again and again that they are the ones to whom the numbers matter.

I've been saying that for years.

Aren't these so-called "Puritans" just following the guidelines?

Being into other peoples numbers so much that you label everything they do as "cheating", simply because you don't like the fact that they have more finds than you, is following the guidelines?

Is it OK then in your world to label people with fewer finds as cheaters without being accused of being into numbers?

Not really. In my world I don't label people playing this game as a cheater, because I don't see how cheating is even possible.

 

The people that seem to be the loudest to shout that the numbers shouldn't matter seem to be the ones that get upset the most when a player enjoys increasing their find count.

Cheating:

1 a: to practice fraud or trickery

 

That would mean dropping a container and claiming you found somebodies cache is fraud and there by cheating.

Then there would be the concept of cheating somebody out of a legitimate find by dropping what could potentially be a decoy. Doesn't have to be rules for there to be cheating.

[+briansnat]

The people that seem to be the loudest to shout that the numbers shouldn't matter seem to be the ones that get upset the most when a player enjoys increasing their find count.

Have you considered perhaps that what bothers us is the idea that numbers matter so much to others that they often engage in practices that we feel are detrimental to the game?

I considered it. If it only bothered you when that actually happened, then that would make sense. But I'd estimate over 90% of the complaints I read here about people being into it for the numbers, and how bad that is, involves nothing detrimental to the game at all. Most of the time you folks just act like you're upset that someone else has a higher score, even though the numbers aren't a score at all.

 

I can't speak for others, but if I wanted a higher "score" I'd have one. It's not important to me so I don't. My batting average in softball is important to me, which is why I've spent hundreds of hours over the years at the batting cages and practicing my swing (I was just at the cages this week getting my swing ready for softball season).

 

If my numbers were important I to me I would devote the time I spend on my other interests to finding caches, but numbers aren't important to me so I don't.

 

The way I see it is the sort of person who so obsessed with numbers that he will cheat to pad his find count is likely the same sort of person who will go after a FTF in a park after posted hours, who will park illegally to get to a cache quicker, who won't re-hide the cache properly because it takes too long, who will shortcut across private property rather than finding legal access to a cache, who will conduct a scorched earth hunt, who will take his vehicle on a road closed to vehicles to get closer to the cache and engage in other activities designed to maximize his find count that are not good for geocaching.

[+TrailGators]

The people that seem to be the loudest to shout that the numbers shouldn't matter seem to be the ones that get upset the most when a player enjoys increasing their find count.

Have you considered perhaps that what bothers us is the idea that numbers matter so much to others that they often engage in practices that we feel are detrimental to the game?

I considered it. If it only bothered you when that actually happened, then that would make sense. But I'd estimate over 90% of the complaints I read here about people being into it for the numbers, and how bad that is, involves nothing detrimental to the game at all. Most of the time you folks just act like you're upset that someone else has a higher score, even though the numbers aren't a score at all.

 

I can't speak for others, but if I wanted a higher "score" I'd have one. It's not important to me so I don't. My batting average in softball is important to me, which is why I've spent hundreds of hours over the years at the batting cages and practicing my swing (I was just at the cages this week getting my swing ready for softball season).

 

If my numbers were important I to me I would devote the time I spend on my other interests to finding caches, but numbers aren't important to me so I don't.

 

The way I see it is the sort of person who so obsessed with numbers that he will a href="http://"dictionary.reference.com/browse/cheat?qsrc=2888" target="_blank">cheat to pad his find count is likely the same sort of person who will go after a FTF in a park after posted hours, who will park illegally to get to a cache quicker, who won't re-hide the cache properly because it takes too long, who will shortcut across private property rather than finding legal access to a cache, who will conduct a scorched earth hunt, who will take his vehicle on a road closed to vehicles to get closer to the cache and engage in other activities designed to maximize his find count that are not good for geocaching.

 

It's nice to see those that make decisions based upon what is best for the community.

[+Parabola]

 

In the 4th post I stated I looked up to these folks. I also felt they were like my mentors. I had never even talked to them before. I tried to follow their posts, logs etc. I wanted to learn more and felt this was a good way to do it. Their numbers to me, WOW was I impressed. The accomplishments WOW. I thought a lot of planning and work went into their cache runs. There was so much I could learn from them.

A DNF IS A DNF! I am not mad about their numbers it's how they got them that upsets me.

I had a thought yesterday when a new cache was published. I can grab a film can, sign a piece of paper, put it in the film can, head to the store to run my errands and toss the can out the window on my way. Return home and log FTF. The problem I ran into was the new cache was over 20 miles away and the store was only 2 miles. I chose not to do it. Does that make me a puritan? It is all the same. Call it what you will.

 

You know what, I won money on this whole ordeal. I started a bet on if two cacher's would make bogus find claim's on those missing cache's done there, due to the owner's are AWOL and it popped up in the local forum's. No one to police the real find's, so I figured it would be 1 to 2 week's and they would magically have them all "found".

 

The same moron, was with a group that all the other's logged a DNF on one cache, but one of them nope he "found it". I was coming back from work one week doing some caching and was basically on the same cache trail as him. Then another I had looked for that was missing, magically "found" right in the middle of a lot of DNF's. Again, the owner was AWOL, no one to police the log's, so they logged it as a find.

 

So anyways after the issue of some cache owner's where gone but left the cache's for everyone to "maintain". And since if was stated some of them where gone, I decided I make a bet with someone else who said no they won't do that. Well, I'm 50 buck's ahead now.

 

If they logged a bogus log on one of yours, delete it. After all you are suppose to, it's in the guidelines. Don't pay attention to the one's you don't own. It's time a SBA be issued on all of those, and have the reviewer shut them down. He can right away under the fact the listed owner hasn't logged on since last year. There's nobody monitor the cache listing's so, let them be archived.

 

Whoever said these people will even try to convince you they are doing every a "service". Hit the nail right on the head.

[+Parabola]

Oh and one last thing. Finch Farmer's. Don't call them on this anymore than you need to. Doing so will only give one of them someone to aruge with and he will aruge till he's blue in the face about "how he's right and everyone else is wrong". Wasting nothing but your own time.

[+Too Tall John]

So what would you do with the legitimate finders of the dropped cache? Delete their logs and invite them back to find the real cache? That strikes me as a real nasty thing to do.

The later cachers didn't actually find the cache that was posted on gc.com - they found an impostor.

so would you delete the logs or leave them stand? I almost would bet that the later finders thought they found the real thing .

Delete the log, email the finder to tell him what's happened. The only way the finder should get confused is if the fake container can nearly match the description of the real container (so he can't tell whether he's found it or not). Assuming that the cacher actually takes cache descriptions/data into the field with them or checks the cache listing before logging the find.

 

If I go out looking for a cache listed as a decon container or medium-sized lock-n-lock, and find a 35mm film canister, I'm only padding my numbers if I log that as a find.

 

Or maybe I'm spoiled by the other cachers in the areas I frequent, who generally make the logbooks in their caches distinctive (clearly prepared at home, with details unique to the cache - not done in the field), making it harder to put out a fake.

seems a bit harsh and probably will create ill feelings, especially among newer cachers. I would think a better course would be to leave them stand and just get rid of the impostor.

 

Jim

As long as the ill feelings are directed at the placer of the false cache, perhaps they will rethink their dishonest practices.

[+Rockin Roddy]

seems a bit harsh and probably will create ill feelings, especially among newer cachers. I would think a better course would be to leave them stand and just get rid of the impostor.

 

Jim

As long as the ill feelings are directed at the placer of the false cache, perhaps they will rethink their dishonest practices.

 

I agree, how can anyone truly call it a find if it wasn't the right one? I would want to come back if I were reasonably close!

[+Star*Hopper]

I was told they did it as a favor.

 

I'm bettin', by them?

Reason answers itself -- it's called, "self serving".

~*

Edited March 9, 2009 by Star*Hopper

[+Star*Hopper]

Oh and one last thing. Finch Farmer's. Don't call them on this anymore than you need to. Doing so will only give one of them someone to aruge with and he will aruge till he's blue in the face about "how he's right and everyone else is wrong". Wasting nothing but your own time.

 

Ummmmm.....how does one argue with someone who's ignoring you, & doesn't respond?

 

\ another 'self-answerer'.

~*

[+Parabola]

Oh and one last thing. Finch Farmer's. Don't call them on this anymore than you need to. Doing so will only give one of them someone to aruge with and he will aruge till he's blue in the face about "how he's right and everyone else is wrong". Wasting nothing but your own time.

 

Ummmmm.....how does one argue with someone who's ignoring you, & doesn't respond?

 

\ another 'self-answerer'.

~*

This is a "local" topic for me. I kind of know the detail's due to I live near the general area. Just some advice for them, to save them selves a possible headache. I know who the people are involved and have called them before on his practice. I've also told him he should use some of his "favor's" to fix his own hides instead of using them as "favor's".

 

It's not worth the headache. So my advice to them is take care of the bogus log's on their own caches and ignore the attempt of the backlash they will have via e-mail's.

 

Don't worry I'll get a few e-mail's cause I posted my opinion on this matter. They love me so much they have to check out my profile on a daily bases. Sad but true.

[+BlueDeuce]

I think a community response is just fine and I don't discourage people talking about in the gc.com forums.

[+flask]

community discussions are how we form opinions and forge the general concepts of what constitues best practices and group standards.

 

while there is no sanctioning body and no score, there are things that do not stand up to our collective standards. some people will wish to adhere to community standards because it's their nature, and others will do it only out of fear of exposure.

 

back in the day i used to tell students "you will either have a decent attitude or you will PRETEND to have decent attitude. since the behavior is the same, i don't care which."

[+TrailGators]

community discussions are how we form opinions and forge the general concepts of what constitues best practices and group standards.

 

while there is no sanctioning body and no score, there are things that do not stand up to our collective standards. some people will wish to adhere to community standards because it's their nature, and others will do it only out of fear of exposure.

 

back in the day i used to tell students "you will either have a decent attitude or you will PRETEND to have decent attitude. since the behavior is the same, i don't care which."

I bet not many students crossed you...