60csx or pn-40

[Couchsurfer]

Re:

"So please help me here, am I remiss in:

1. Pimping and drilling down?

2. Pimping but not drilling down?

3. Not pimping but drilling down?

4. Neither pimping nor drilling down?"

 

I'm just a hard-core outdoorsman, not a techie or anything, and I suppose a lot of people ask me in my travels what my opinion is, and I really knew very little about the pn-40. Personally, because of the rather needy nature of my abroad travels (like, I use the dadgum thing to survive) I have always simply said that my 60csx is amazing... and now I know... it really does out-perform, perhaps simply because of it's flexibility. Thank you people, I did do a search of the forums as well as other sites for maps of europe, for example, for the pn-40, and now I feel vidicated in my opinion regarding the best device for my uses and the uses of my peers. 'Pimping' simply means promoting, like a pimp might do for a whore. Excuse the parlance.

 

For the record I would love to have the pn-40 if someone gave it to me but I won't be 'up-grading' (or side-grading?) or letting go of my 60csx any time soon - it wouldn't come close to being useful for 90% of my most critical uses.

 

On a side note, how does it do with water-navigation? Anything like BlueCharts for it, perhaps already included? I'm guessing not... Perhaps I should start a second thread regarding MOAGU on the 60csx (vs pn-40?), but first I go search for the term....

[+Team CowboyPapa]

One thing I am curious about is if someone can figure out how to get the data to work on the Delorome, could a user created map like that be shared?

That's a good question...the Delorme maps have a serial number or some such identifier emebedded in the map file to allow it to run on a particular PN device. A single TopoUSA installation can create maps for as many PN devices as are registered with it (register in the sense of telling the TopoUSA program "Hey, make it work for me!", not registering with Delorme).

 

If the map is installed via Topo7 or XMap, I'm pretty sure it would work...but that implies that the programs would need to recognize the data. They use a different format, of course. Are these maps being made for viewing and conversion in Topo7? If the maps are being made and distributed in PN format, I'm doubtful that they would work.

Watch out there, embra. Hate to see him calling you a liar. Would make it three of us though.

Actually, kind of a badge of honor though.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

On a side note, how does it do with water-navigation? Anything like BlueCharts for it, perhaps already included? I'm guessing not... Perhaps I should start a second thread regarding MOAGU on the 60csx (vs pn-40?), but first I go search for the term....

It's got a seal on the back.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

Liar, most people with a little intelligence can figure out how to use the other map that has the road data and the POI data. But then again you chose to use an inferior GPS, I guess it follows that you also chose to use the map without the better road data and POIs. What else should I expect from a liar and PN40 owner-particularly one that cannot open their mouth without lying. And since the Garmin maps are vector, I can have Street navigation for all of US and Canada and all the 24K topo maps I want loaded on my GPS. Maybe if you did not have to spend so much time dealing with getting the maps on the GPS you could find more caches! A CO would help find more caches too! So with your inferior technology and inability to tell the truth, I expect nothing less from you.

Nice rant. One of the all time best.

 

Certainly very professional that personalities were not an issue.

 

It's so nice that I'm going to memorize for future use, with permission of course so as not to plagerize or violate copyright.

[+Frodo_Underhill]

 

I use dem2topo which also requires ID4 virtual machine. Both are freeware. When I use it, I create a mp file but it also has an option to create a shape file.

 

One thing to bear in mind is you need different contour intervals for different zoom levels. If your map had a 10 ft contour interval at a .5 mile zoom, your screen would show nothing but contour lines. The way Garmin maps handle this is they have four vector layers that show at different zoom levels. So when you are using the garmin techiniques, you are creating 4 maps. I think I created a shapefile in dem2topo once and it created a shapfile that had the contours for the highest zoom (i.e., all the contour lines). However, if you zoom out and display the map all the contour line would show. But then again I am not sure how Delorme would handle the shapefile at various zooms-maybe since (I have been told) it converts the vectors to raster, zooming out may not be a problem. But perhaps understanding the Garmin maps have four different layers that display at various zoom levels might help you figure out a way to get it into the Delorome.

 

The water data that is used in the garmin maps is free on USGS servers and it is shapfile. But it is much harder to downlaod than the DEM data.

 

One thing I am curious about is if someone can figure out how to get the data to work on the Delorome, could a user created map like that be shared?

 

I have been able to get the elevation data into DeLorme Topo by first using DEM2TOPO to create a shape file and then using SHP2DRW to convert the shape file to a text file for import to DeLorme Topo. I tried a 1 arc second data set and it lined up with the DeLorme base map well. Will need to experiment with the other data sets some more. The 1/3 arc second data was displaced to the SSE about 1000 ft.

 

What I have found is all the contours come in as the same line. No distinction between major and minor contours. This would be a disadvantage for a map. Some more exploring and stratagizing would be needed before this would be practical.

 

Your tip on creating different contour levels for different zoom levels would be good. As I have currently imported the data, with all lines shown at all zooms, the screen is a blur of contour lines when zoomed out. Would have to be corrected but this is just an experiment right now.

 

Regarding your question on sharing the map. It might be possible. The maps that I had made from draw layers in DeLorme Topo were not updated when I upgraded from PN20 to PN40 while all the raster maps were. It looks like the draw layer maps are not keyed to GPS serial numbers while the raster maps are. This would make sense in that DeLorme is marketing the downloads and keying them to a GPS would discourage bootlegging.

 

For my use, the base map data provided with the DeLorme is more than adequate. If you want more contour detail, there is an option for showing it on the DeLorme maps and you could recut your maps with this detail if need be. Where the technique of brewing your own map may be very useful is in areas not covered by DeLorme's US maps and the data to make the maps is readily available.

 

All very interesting. Best of luck with your mapping efforts and thanks for sharing the info.

[+TotemLake]

Other countries bounded the same or other first world countries bounded the same way? There's a big difference. That also applies to general mobility away from where people live and work. My example was not ideal... just a well known one. Americans are pretty insular. It's not simply that most of us don't travel outside the country. Many barely think about the world outside the country. This is not just my perception.

 

We're gonna get yelled at soon for being off topic! Wait for it...

 

You ping the Americans pretty hard for their failure to travel outside the country and come up with that as an example? I don't see you pinging other countries' country bound the same way with the same reasoning.

 

There was a study showing a very small percentage of all people travel outside their country. The majority of the world actually stays within a small commute distance from where they hang their hat for the night. The American population is not the exception. Your perception is askewed.

Btw, I'll agree with you on point for some folks. This doesn't apply to the majority.

 

Y'all can return back to your regular channel now.

[+embra]

It looks like the draw layer maps are not keyed to GPS serial numbers while the raster maps are. This would make sense in that DeLorme is marketing the downloads and keying them to a GPS would discourage bootlegging.

I think you are right about that. I often forget that it's only the raster data types that are protected in this manner. I guess since every PN-device comes with a copy of TopoUSA, they don't feel much need to protect that data.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

It looks like the draw layer maps are not keyed to GPS serial numbers while the raster maps are. This would make sense in that DeLorme is marketing the downloads and keying them to a GPS would discourage bootlegging.

I think you are right about that. I often forget that it's only the raster data types that are protected in this manner. I guess since every PN-device comes with a copy of TopoUSA, they don't feel much need to protect that data.

I imagine that one could transfer the mapping data from one of the three Detail, Region Data DVDs that come with a PN-40 onto a micro SD card and insert the card into a handheld on another brand. However, what would that handheld do with the data.

 

Housekeeping: The subject Topo USA 7.0 mapping application is what it says on the box

http://www.amazon.com/Topo-USA-7-0-Nationa...3739&sr=8-1

and does not include maps of the Levant.

[+myotis]

 

I use dem2topo which also requires ID4 virtual machine. Both are freeware. When I use it, I create a mp file but it also has an option to create a shape file.

 

One thing to bear in mind is you need different contour intervals for different zoom levels. If your map had a 10 ft contour interval at a .5 mile zoom, your screen would show nothing but contour lines. The way Garmin maps handle this is they have four vector layers that show at different zoom levels. So when you are using the garmin techiniques, you are creating 4 maps. I think I created a shapefile in dem2topo once and it created a shapfile that had the contours for the highest zoom (i.e., all the contour lines). However, if you zoom out and display the map all the contour line would show. But then again I am not sure how Delorme would handle the shapefile at various zooms-maybe since (I have been told) it converts the vectors to raster, zooming out may not be a problem. But perhaps understanding the Garmin maps have four different layers that display at various zoom levels might help you figure out a way to get it into the Delorome.

 

The water data that is used in the garmin maps is free on USGS servers and it is shapfile. But it is much harder to downlaod than the DEM data.

 

One thing I am curious about is if someone can figure out how to get the data to work on the Delorome, could a user created map like that be shared?

 

I have been able to get the elevation data into DeLorme Topo by first using DEM2TOPO to create a shape file and then using SHP2DRW to convert the shape file to a text file for import to DeLorme Topo. I tried a 1 arc second data set and it lined up with the DeLorme base map well. Will need to experiment with the other data sets some more. The 1/3 arc second data was displaced to the SSE about 1000 ft.

 

What I have found is all the contours come in as the same line. No distinction between major and minor contours. This would be a disadvantage for a map. Some more exploring and stratagizing would be needed before this would be practical.

 

Your tip on creating different contour levels for different zoom levels would be good. As I have currently imported the data, with all lines shown at all zooms, the screen is a blur of contour lines when zoomed out. Would have to be corrected but this is just an experiment right now.

 

Regarding your question on sharing the map. It might be possible. The maps that I had made from draw layers in DeLorme Topo were not updated when I upgraded from PN20 to PN40 while all the raster maps were. It looks like the draw layer maps are not keyed to GPS serial numbers while the raster maps are. This would make sense in that DeLorme is marketing the downloads and keying them to a GPS would discourage bootlegging.

 

For my use, the base map data provided with the DeLorme is more than adequate. If you want more contour detail, there is an option for showing it on the DeLorme maps and you could recut your maps with this detail if need be. Where the technique of brewing your own map may be very useful is in areas not covered by DeLorme's US maps and the data to make the maps is readily available.

 

All very interesting. Best of luck with your mapping efforts and thanks for sharing the info.

 

Try this,

 

In dem2topo create a mp file

 

Download and install the freeware gpsmapedit

 

double click on the mp file and it will open in gpsmapedit

 

In file menu, select map properties

 

Click on levels

 

Remove everything you can but level 0 (one more level will not remove)

 

Save the MP file

 

download PText2shp.exe freeware and convert it to a shapefile

 

With this you should get a shapefile that has 3 fields, Label which will have the elevation, type of contour line, which will have different numbers 0x20 is minor; 0x21 is Interim; 0x22 is major, and a third field which is level which all will be zero.

 

As I said there are 4 levels generated in the maps, Level 0 is the loweest, then 1, then 2 then 3. So if you want a shapefile for a different level, instead of removing all the levels but 0, remove all the other levels.

[+myotis]

Check this out:

 

 

I used the procudure descriped above. Then I opened it in ExpertGPS with the GIS pack. Then I sorted by contour type and changed the color on the interm and major contours. I croped the picture as I am not sure how big of a picture I can show in here.

[+OpenTrackRacer]

Holy guacamole! Forget your Ritalin? If I didn't already know you were (physically) an adult, I'd think I was getting whined at by a ten year old. By the way, I don't know about you but I rarely open my mouth while typing so you can blame my fingers but leave my face out of this.

 

Besides that, you are incorrect again. People with a little intelligence already bought PN-40 GPS receivers so they don't have to worry about downloading and installing free maps from Internet.

 

 

You've got me on one point however. I can't tell you how many times I've been laid low by not having the entire country on my GPS when I decide on a whim to jump in the car and drive cross country to hit a Geocache. It happens all the time and I never seem to learn. Oh wait... I forgot that I have routable DeLorme topo maps for the entire USA sitting here on a SDHC card that fits in the PN-40. I guess I did learn after all...

 

You also got something else wrong... I'm a 60CSx, Nuvi 350 and PN-40 owner. Don't go selling me short there pal.

 

Gotta run... life is calling!

 

Liar, most people with a little intelligence can figure out how to use the other map that has the road data and the POI data. But then again you chose to use an inferior GPS, I guess it follows that you also chose to use the map without the better road data and POIs. What else should I expect from a liar and PN40 owner-particularly one that cannot open their mouth without lying. And since the Garmin maps are vector, I can have Street navigation for all of US and Canada and all the 24K topo maps I want loaded on my GPS. Maybe if you did not have to spend so much time dealing with getting the maps on the GPS you could find more caches! A CO would help find more caches too! So with your inferior technology and inability to tell the truth, I expect nothing less from you.

Edited March 6, 2009 by OpenTrackRacer

[robertlipe]

Moderators' note Last reminder in this thread and to the individuals involved: Sections 1, 3, and 5 of the forum guidelines[/b] matter.

 

A technical discussion is cool.

A spirited technical discussion is cool.

Name calling, personal attacks, drifting wildly off topic, and a lack of respect for other participants is not cool.

 

 

The name calling and squabbling must end. Continued offenders (and you've called attention to yourselves) will be given a break from the forums to cool down and sit in the corner and review the forum guidelines.

[namiboy]

Moderators' note Last reminder in this thread and to the individuals involved: Sections 1, 3, and 5 of the forum guidelines[/b] matter.

 

A technical discussion is cool.

A spirited technical discussion is cool.

Name calling, personal attacks, drifting wildly off topic, and a lack of respect for other participants is not cool.

 

 

The name calling and squabbling must end. Continued offenders (and you've called attention to yourselves) will be given a break from the forums to cool down and sit in the corner and review the forum guidelines.

 

 

i was just getting ready to post that i cannot for the life of me believe that adults are fighting to no end over what whose gps is better. holy mackerel. can you add the above admonishment to the "is the pn-40 worth it" thread also?

[+user13371]

Name calling, personal attacks, drifting wildly off topic, and a lack of respect for other participants is not cool.

NAME CALLING is out?

 

Robert, you and I will be the only ones left! Hardly anybody else uses anything close their real names And if someone is going by an alias to start with, how could you ban name calling? With folks like Myotisis, Halitosis, Team Cowboy Pimper, Openly Trolling Rabble Rouser, Rotten Rutabega, Frodo's Underwear, and Couch Potato around here?

 

I mean, how far off are those from the screen names?

Edited March 6, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Rockin Roddy]

Name calling, personal attacks, drifting wildly off topic, and a lack of respect for other participants is not cool.

NAME CALLING is out?

 

Robert, you and I will be the only ones left! Hardly anybody else uses anything close their real names And if if someone is going by an alias to start with, how could you ban name calling? With folks like Myotisis, Halitosis, Team Cowboy Pimper, Openly Trolling Rabble Rouser, Rotten Rutabega, Frodo's Underwear, and Couch Potato around here?

 

I mean, how far off are those from the screen names?

 

I must be Rotten Rutabega

 

Where is the aerail image of Myotis? Seems like a lot of contours for so little elevation change??

[+user13371]

Sorry about that, Roddy--I didn't want you to feel left out but that was best I could come up with. Some of the others had more easily mockable screen names

[+randyrucker]

I can't believe the moderator allowed this thread to deteriorate so badly and let it continue. This kind of thing is why I'm beginning to avoid reading the Groundspeak forums.

[+coggins]

I would think it would favor the PN-40 in this case.

How do you figure? Will there be some feature advantage to the DeLorme format? Or are you just thinking of platform growth?

It takes the advantage of "free for Garmin only" away from the current debate.

That is correct, all vector data on either.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Name calling, personal attacks, drifting wildly off topic, and a lack of respect for other participants is not cool.

NAME CALLING is out?

 

Robert, you and I will be the only ones left! Hardly anybody else uses anything close their real names And if someone is going by an alias to start with, how could you ban name calling? With folks like Myotisis, Halitosis, Team Cowboy Pimper, Openly Trolling Rabble Rouser, Rotten Rutabega, Frodo's Underwear, and Couch Potato around here?

 

I mean, how far off are those from the screen names?

Like those that fit the real photos?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Moderators' note Last reminder in this thread and to the individuals involved: Sections 1, 3, and 5 of the forum guidelines[/b] matter.

 

A technical discussion is cool.

A spirited technical discussion is cool.

Name calling, personal attacks, drifting wildly off topic, and a lack of respect for other participants is not cool.

 

 

The name calling and squabbling must end. Continued offenders (and you've called attention to yourselves) will be given a break from the forums to cool down and sit in the corner and review the forum guidelines.

 

 

i was just getting ready to post that i cannot for the life of me believe that adults are fighting to no end over what whose gps is better. holy mackerel. can you add the above admonishment to the "is the pn-40 worth it" thread also?

I do. There was just a case here where a guy in an Angels jacket got into it with a guy in a Dodgers jacket in a restaurant. When it was over, one went to the slam and the other to the morgue.

[+myotis]

I would think it would favor the PN-40 in this case.

How do you figure? Will there be some feature advantage to the DeLorme format? Or are you just thinking of platform growth?

It takes the advantage of "free for Garmin only" away from the current debate.

That is correct, all vector data on either.

 

I think you are mistaken about supporting Delorme-I looked at the thread you mentioned and did not see any mention. I search the forums (after making sure I spelled Delorome right) and found two references on the forums. Neither indicated there was any way to make the maps work on Delorome. Listening to what people have been saying on here, it does not sound like it is possible.

[+coggins]

I would think it would favor the PN-40 in this case.

How do you figure? Will there be some feature advantage to the DeLorme format? Or are you just thinking of platform growth?

It takes the advantage of "free for Garmin only" away from the current debate.

That is correct, all vector data on either.

 

I think you are mistaken about supporting Delorme-I looked at the thread you mentioned and did not see any mention. I search the forums (after making sure I spelled Delorome right) and found two references on the forums. Neither indicated there was any way to make the maps work on Delorome. Listening to what people have been saying on here, it does not sound like it is possible.

As a member of the build group, I am privy to information that is not available in the thread, and also all the files. What people assume or have said is of no concern to what we're doing with the custom tools we build. You can refer to the FAQ's on page 8 "Can I install non-DeLorme maps on the Earthmate PN-40?" and then page 37 of your PN-40 manual for use on GIS layers and custom vector use on the unit. Also DeLorme has classes on the subject for those that are interested.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Name calling, personal attacks, drifting wildly off topic, and a lack of respect for other participants is not cool.

NAME CALLING is out?

 

Robert, you and I will be the only ones left! Hardly anybody else uses anything close their real names And if someone is going by an alias to start with, how could you ban name calling? With folks like Myotisis, Halitosis, Team Cowboy Pimper, Openly Trolling Rabble Rouser, Rotten Rutabega, Frodo's Underwear, and Couch Potato around here?

 

I mean, how far off are those from the screen names?

That's a cute play on my handle. Now, who volunteers to explain the implication to the rest of my team?

 

And then, I receive a chastisement for a post from this newspaper article. Is the time honored practice of quoting from authoritative sources now out of bounds?

[robertlipe]

Moderator's note. Do not continue the name thing. I don't care who started it. I'm ending it.

[+user13371]

Team Cowboy Papa, you raise a good point about language one probably wouldn't use in front of their own kids.

 

I do sincerely (really, honestly, no drawing smiley faces or winks here) apologize if you (or anyone else) was offended by wordplay I applied to some folks' screen names. I wrote that it in a flippant moment when I'd had enough coffee to be clever but not enough to be wise.

 

As for the question "Is the time honored practice of quoting from authoritative sources now out of bounds?" I guess that's the mod's call. Was the source authoritative or relevant on the subject of GPS in general or "60csx or pn-40" in specific?

Edited March 6, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+user13371]

I think you are mistaken about supporting Delorme-I looked at the thread you mentioned and did not see any mention.

As a member of the build group, I am privy to information that is not available in the thread, and also all the files. What people assume or have said is of no concern to what we're doing with the custom tools we build. You can refer to the FAQ's on page 8 "Can I install non-DeLorme maps on the Earthmate PN-40?" and then page 37 of your PN-40 manual for use on GIS layers and custom vector use on the unit. Also DeLorme has classes on the subject for those that are interested.

Coggins, thank you for this. It clarifies a lot to know that you are part of the build team. Other than the tidbit about building your project for DeLorme, can you share any other information?

 

You mention building "custom tools" - does DeLorme's own XMap stuff come into play?

Edited March 6, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+myotis]

Coggins, I would also like to hear more. I have had Delorome users seeking my data (which I am more than happy to share), but I have not been able to find an easy way to share it. The best I was reasonably able to do was extract trails and make it into a shapefile/gpx. But dealling with all the other types of objects in the file was much much much more time than I was willing to mess with. So is there some new tools that will soon make this much easier? If so, I won't spend any more time trying to figure it out. It would be nice to have something as easy as the tool to convert from PC to MAC.

[+Rockin Roddy]

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=215973

 

Link to another GPS thread a few down, the seeker is looking into DeLorme and Xmap (lives in Canada).

[+benjamin921]

 

One thing I am curious about is if someone can figure out how to get the data to work on the Delorome, could a user created map like that be shared?

Yes as long as it is a draw file. I can make a Draw file, "cut" the map (the file is a .pm0) and share that .pm0. All you have to do is exchange the file with the PN-20/40 and the data will appear.

[+benjamin921]

 

Liar, most people with a little intelligence can figure out how to use the other map that has the road data and the POI data. But then again you chose to use an inferior GPS, I guess it follows that you also chose to use the map without the better road data and POIs. What else should I expect from a liar and PN40 owner-particularly one that cannot open their mouth without lying. And since the Garmin maps are vector, I can have Street navigation for all of US and Canada and all the 24K topo maps I want loaded on my GPS. Maybe if you did not have to spend so much time dealing with getting the maps on the GPS you could find more caches! A CO would help find more caches too! So with your inferior technology and inability to tell the truth, I expect nothing less from you.

 

WOW Dude!

 

Quoted from Jeff in PA

 

"Why do people think they should give advice to a specific unit when they don't even own one?" - Jeff in PA

[+kawal]

I just got in the mail an ad for the DeLorme PN-40, so I've been reading this thread with interest.

 

Last year I bought a PN-20 and ended up returning it to DeLorme after I tried out a Garmin 60Csx and an Etrex Vista Hcx. Here's the link:

 

PN-20 vs 60Csx vs Vista HCx

 

I ended up keeping the Vista Hcx because of its portability and great battery life, and I'm very happy with the Vista Hcx. But I know technology is advancing, so I'd like to ask:

 

1. Is the PN-40 a lot better than the PN-20? I found the PN-20 to be slower at startup and found less satellites than the Garmins, especially under cover and in canyons.

 

2. Are the new Colorados that much better than the 60Csx and the Vista Hcx?

 

Just as a background, I was an old Magellan user until last year. And I love the DeLorme map programs, especially Street Atlas that we use on our laptop for road trips. The Vista was my first Garmin. So I don't think I'm prejudiced in any way. For me, the Garmins just outperformed the PN-20. But maybe I should be looking at these new ones for hiking and geocaching?

 

Thanks,

 

Ray

[+embra]

If you had a PN-20, think of the PN-40 as a crisp, snappy version of the PN-20. There are some additions, like the electronic compass and the barometric altimeter. And Delorme has implimented a lot of geocaching-specific features (which will also be available on the PN-20 eventually). But the main thing is that the 40 has all the speed that you would have wanted for the the 20.

 

Battery life on the 40 is a little bit worse than the 20 (faster processors use more power).

 

I have no experience with the new Garmins, but lots of others around here do.

[ZeMartelo]

2. Are the new Colorados that much better than the 60Csx and the Vista Hcx?

 

Ray

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

[+coggins]

I think you are mistaken about supporting Delorme-I looked at the thread you mentioned and did not see any mention.

As a member of the build group, I am privy to information that is not available in the thread, and also all the files. What people assume or have said is of no concern to what we're doing with the custom tools we build. You can refer to the FAQ's on page 8 "Can I install non-DeLorme maps on the Earthmate PN-40?" and then page 37 of your PN-40 manual for use on GIS layers and custom vector use on the unit. Also DeLorme has classes on the subject for those that are interested.

Coggins, thank you for this. It clarifies a lot to know that you are part of the build team. Other than the tidbit about building your project for DeLorme, can you share any other information?

 

You mention building "custom tools" - does DeLorme's own XMap stuff come into play?

At this point, the data is already in a compatible format for XMap, it will take further processing to compile it to the Garmin format. As I wrote, DeLorme will be more than happy to teach one how to do this, I believe there is a link to training on their site somewhere.

 

That being said, back on topic. As one can have the same maps, vector, scanned topos, orthoimagery, it boils down to how the units can handle the data. The GPS MAP60CSx is older and wasn't designed to display raster data, and has a processor as such, can display 256 colors, it's OS won't handle a file larger than 2GB. The PN-40 on the other hand was designed to do this. Let's be clear, both units have raster displays, so at some point, vector data will have to be converted to raster for display, either within the unit on the fly or beforehand on a computer. And raster data on a Garmin eats plenty of storage space. There are instances where the GPS MAP60CSx will be a better choice, it can have an external antenna, such as a chokering to prevent multipath errors. Also the addition of the RS-232 serial interface can be used to interface with professional equipment, autopilots, depth sounding equipment (and will display depths). It also has the JumpMaster software like the Vista line. But I believe the PN-40 has better Geocaching support. If they added Wherigo support, they would have the geocaching use all sewn up.

Edited March 9, 2009 by coggins

[+Maingray]

^ spot on. It's a little hard to compare the PN-40 with the 60CSX, different needs. 60 is older, before the new "paperless" wave of units.

 

Gotta love people fighting over GPS units. It's very clear to me which unit is best for each people's needs, so buy accordingly but why bash what other people buy?

[+kawal]

If you had a PN-20, think of the PN-40 as a crisp, snappy version of the PN-20. There are some additions, like the electronic compass and the barometric altimeter. And Delorme has implimented a lot of geocaching-specific features (which will also be available on the PN-20 eventually). But the main thing is that the 40 has all the speed that you would have wanted for the the 20.

 

Battery life on the 40 is a little bit worse than the 20 (faster processors use more power).

 

I have no experience with the new Garmins, but lots of others around here do.

 

May I ask what I could expect for battery life on the PN-40? That's one of the features I love about the Vista Hcx - the great battery life.

 

It's good to know the PN-40 also has the electronic compass. I really like that feature as well. And it sounds like the PN-40 doesn't need to be held horizontally for it to work.

 

What I found was that the repeatability of the PN-20 track over the same route was not as good as the Garmin handhelds. Nor was the speed of getting a signal and seeing lots of satellites in tough conditions. For me, it was an easy choice to keep the Garmin handheld instead of the PN-20. But it sounds like the PN-40 is an improvement.

[+Rockin Roddy]

If you had a PN-20, think of the PN-40 as a crisp, snappy version of the PN-20. There are some additions, like the electronic compass and the barometric altimeter. And Delorme has implimented a lot of geocaching-specific features (which will also be available on the PN-20 eventually). But the main thing is that the 40 has all the speed that you would have wanted for the the 20.

 

Battery life on the 40 is a little bit worse than the 20 (faster processors use more power).

 

I have no experience with the new Garmins, but lots of others around here do.

 

May I ask what I could expect for battery life on the PN-40? That's one of the features I love about the Vista Hcx - the great battery life.

 

It's good to know the PN-40 also has the electronic compass. I really like that feature as well. And it sounds like the PN-40 doesn't need to be held horizontally for it to work.

 

What I found was that the repeatability of the PN-20 track over the same route was not as good as the Garmin handhelds. Nor was the speed of getting a signal and seeing lots of satellites in tough conditions. For me, it was an easy choice to keep the Garmin handheld instead of the PN-20. But it sounds like the PN-40 is an improvement.

 

My battery lasts as long as I want to play (or has so far), but I have the battery pak that came with the travel kit. The rechargeables I also have usually last around 8 hours give or take (but I leave my backlight on at all times)

 

As for signal lock and tracking, I have seen very quick signal locks, even on the first start up of the day! Usually, it's just a matter of seconds. Tracks I have seen since the update have been much better, very close!

[gps_dr]

2. Are the new Colorados that much better than the 60Csx and the Vista Hcx?

 

Ray

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

I have a Garmin 76CSx, got the Colorado for it's higher resolution display and heart rate monitor.

I got rid of the Colorado. It is not as good an outdoor unit as the 76CSx (60CSx twin)!

 

It isn't as good on a handlebar - visibility stinks.

It only displays one tracklog at a time - I can't live with that as I use trackolgs to show a network of trails.

Also use tracklogs to show roads that are not correct on maps.

Entering numbers/text on the Colorado was also to cumbersome.

 

I currently use the 76CSx & a DeLorme PN40 to map trails.

They both have their advantages.

Edited March 10, 2009 by gps_dr

[+OpenTrackRacer]

That's a little subjective isn't it?

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

[+TotemLake]

That's a little subjective isn't it?

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

Yes it is.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

That's a little subjective isn't it?

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

Yes it is.

OTOH, perhaps not. I by using the term handheld, maybe the implication is only those actually held in ZM's own hand, and if that does not include an PN-40, then.......those are the best of those which have been actually held.

[+TotemLake]

That's a little subjective isn't it?

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

Yes it is.

OTOH, perhaps not. I by using the term handheld, maybe the implication is only those actually held in ZM's own hand, and if that does not include an PN-40, then.......those are the best of those which have been actually held.

Which makes the opinion subjective as mine would be subjective as well. There are methods to take the subjectiveness out of the equation, posting opinions without factual backing is not one of them.

Edited March 12, 2009 by TotemLake

[+Team CowboyPapa]

That's a little subjective isn't it?

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

Yes it is.

OTOH, perhaps not. I by using the term handheld, maybe the implication is only those actually held in ZM's own hand, and if that does not include an PN-40, then.......those are the best of those which have been actually held.

Which makes the opinion subjective as mine would be subjective as well. There are methods to take the subjectiveness out of the equation, posting opinions without factual backing is not one of them.

I agree, the comment was not conditioned to include a limitation.

[+TotemLake]

That's a little subjective isn't it?

 

IMO yes.

Go for the Colorado or the Oregon.

Stick with the best out there in the handheld world right now.

Yes it is.

OTOH, perhaps not. I by using the term handheld, maybe the implication is only those actually held in ZM's own hand, and if that does not include an PN-40, then.......those are the best of those which have been actually held.

Which makes the opinion subjective as mine would be subjective as well. There are methods to take the subjectiveness out of the equation, posting opinions without factual backing is not one of them.

I agree, the comment was not conditioned to include a limitation.

So how are ya at volleyball?

[robertlipe]

Ahem. On topic, please.

[+mertat]

Just wanted to pop in here for a sec and say I hope this topic won't be closed and will continue with the good technical information. I just bought the PN-40 - steep learning curves and itty-bitty screens don't bother me - and when I have sufficient time, I plan to go through this thread very carefully to glean all the helpful tidbits. And thanks to all who've posted those helpful tidbits.

[+embra]

If you're just getting up and going, you may find the PN-40 wiki useful (and a little less traumatic).

 

http://delormepn40.wikispaces.com/

[+bhorocks]

we really need a mod to close this thread. i have been reading pages of people blasting each other. i bought both a 60csx and a pn-40 yesterday and today and i will try them both out to see which i prefer.

 

i like the maps on the pn-40 right out of the box better than the 1:100k garmin topo. i like the garmin screen better.

 

I had serious troubles with the pn-40 right out of the box and didn't on the garmin but I am going to give them both a fair run.

its funny how off track this went when he originally was talking about a 60csx vs pn-40. cant people just say yeah i like it and move on or no i dont like it.

 

so many of you have so many posts that you all forgot this is about having a good time.

and yes, i could have spell checked my post but i dont care I started reading this thread for an open review and not a smash fest.

 

how sad.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I asked before, but it wasn't answered....what is the need for an external antenna? I have seen people complain the PN-40 doesn't support this and am curious.

 

As an aside, the last few days have been beautiful, I have been able to get out and enjoy my PN-40 much more! The other day, I noted +/- 5' accuracy and went to the sat screen, sure enough I was all blue and a pretty W was in the top left corner again!!! This happened again the next day, all pretty blue and a nice W!!! Gotta love this, but it doesn't make the +/- 5' any different, I haven't seen below 5' ever!! At any rate, the unit is really impressing me, I find myself within feet of most caches! I did check my unit against a benchmark the other day, near zeros. I approached from several directions and at a few different times to make this more accurate, but the readings were close enough to each other, I am fairly sure my unit is SPOT ON!! (and, don't worry, I know someone will say this means nothing)!

[+Tigerz]

... i bought both a 60csx and a pn-40 yesterday and today and i will try them both out to see which i prefer.

I started with a 60CSx (have owned it for years) and did the same type of comparison with a PN-40 and OR 400T. After a month of heavy testing (several hundred geocaches), I returned the OR 400T. For my uses (hiking, kayaking, and geocaching), I found the PN-40 to be a much better fit. Although I really liked the OR touchscreen, the number of screen presses and the dim screen were no match for the mapping capabilities of the PN-40. I have a dozen or so pages of observations, but that is the essence/bottom line between the OR and PN-40.

 

Having said that ... I have just about quit using my PN-40. I had my original unit repaired once and replaced once. I am now being forced to use a high dollar LiI battery pack (the PN-40 appears to have problems with low voltage levels on alkaline batteries). Even so, the unit still constantly locks up, requires a number of workarounds to make it geocaching friendly, and has problems with corrupted cache pages/sorts. Up until recently, I carried a second GPSr with me due to the PN-40's unreliability.

 

After severe problems this past weekend, I'm back to my 60CSx ...