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No-go areas, land use agreements, permissions, etc.


Fish Eagle
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I've opened this thread in conjunction with the pinned thread above, and this is where I'm inviting discussion about anything related to no-go areas, land use agreements, getting permission, and anything to do with the process of cleaning up our act as geocaching evolves in South Africa.

 

Feel free to post here, and to submit additional items for discussion/inclusion in the pinned thread.

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How far are we to take this? Just about any cache not on your own property is on someone else's property.

 

I just think of all the caches in the TMNP. Do all of them need permission?

 

I wanted to place a night cache in the TMNP forests. The forests officially close at 6pm. I wrote to the head office and after detailed email on the environmental awareness of cachers, educational benefits etc, a permit for night caching was declined. I left it at that, but that does not bode well for TMNP caches.

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I just think of all the caches in the TMNP. Do all of them need permission?

 

 

Considering it's a SANParks site, it would probably be prudent to await an outcome from the KNP discussions.

Agreed. Hence my interim ban on new placements on any SANParks property - as a show of being proactive.

This is an excerpt from a communication sent to KNP management earlier today, in an attempt to delay any more spill-over, knee-jerk reactions....

Within our community, I have publically announced the ban on geocaches in the KNP, and have also extended that to a ban on all new geocaches on any of SANParks properties across the country. There are some caches in other SANParks reserves, but not many, except for Table Mountain which has several. I have also implemented a similar ban on new geocaches in other game reserves in SA, like the KZN reserves, Pilansberg, etc. Similar issues exist, and although many cache placements have permission, we now realise that the permission must come from the top, and not from the person on the spot. Regarding other SANParks reserves, we ask for a bit of time, and to see where we end up with the KNP which is a "watershed" case being the first major issue of this nature in the history of geocaching in SA. It is our intention to clean them all up as soon as possible.

Edit: Tpyos

Edited by Fish Eagle
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This is such scary stuff. It is so easy for the authorities to go the easy route: ban all caches. It will require a major effort in negotiation to convince them otherwise. This requires more than individual effort. Gerhardoos in a post in the other thread sounds as if he speaks the language and I would propose that he is brought on board.

 

It makes sense to get representations of interest groups together: Authorities, cachers, and perhaps some members of the public and physically go to one or two caches so that they can see exactly how it pans out in the field, then discuss all the pros and cons. People tend to be more approachable and understand things better with first hand experience.

Edited by the pooks
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Yes, the potential knock-on effect is terrifying!! We mustn't fool ourselves that TPTB of SANParks are not aware of caches in their other reserves - they are, they've just chosen not to do anything YET. The KNP issue could be the trigger that starts a domino reaction.... But, I'm still positive that we'll get to a solution with the KNP whereby geocaching will be a permitted sport, but obviously with some restrictions. I'm just trying to buy some time, and if we can come right with the KNP, then the other parks, whether SANParks or not, should be much easier with a very solid reference like the KNP.

 

In a nutshell, I believe that we will need to formalise/legalise geocaching with many major landowners in SA, especially those that have several properties spread across the country, and especially especially those who have major environmental or risk concerns (like game reserves and forestry companies), where the perceived impact of geocaching could be higher.

 

What's happening now was more-or-less inevitable, and has been been experienced across the world as geocaching evolves in each country - now it's our turn. Fortunately, we have a lot of experience on our side, and we can lean on our international friends for advice - they've been there, and done that, several times.

 

Some believe that it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission, and in some cases that's right, especially considering the bureaucratical quagmire we have to try to work through when asking permission. However, I believe at this point in time, that we need to be proactive to avoid further knee-jerk reactions.

 

I totally agree with mustering our resources, environmental, technical, financial and management in the KNP process. But, from correspondence with them, and trying to read between the lines, I believe that the first priority is to let the emotion die down. Then in January, at the informal one-on-one discussions I've been invited to, I think it's important to LISTEN and share viewpoints, and understand the breadth and depth of all their issues without bombarding them with a hundred and one ideas. However, in the meantime, we should be preparing, to have the ideas ready......

 

To further the KNP discussion, I'll add this last paragraph to the KNP thread with some thoughts about the various aspects that we should do our homework on. Fortunately, we have some time to prepare. Let's keep this thread for more general non-KNP discussions.

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Please keep us in the loop - especially if I can assist with a letter regarding Earthcaches - I know I have one in KNP - and cincol has one in Pilanesberg and an international cacher (spuza) has on on TMNP. We also have one in the Drakensberg / St Lucia wetlands - so most of these are in protected areas.

Will do.

At this stage it's very quiet because my contact's on leave.

We'll be in the park for 8 days from Monday, and I'll see if an opportunity presents itself for some informal discussions.

 

Edited to add:

If you'd like to do an Earthcache letter please do - it would be good to have it available when I meet with them.

Edited by Fish Eagle
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Please keep us in the loop - especially if I can assist with a letter regarding Earthcaches - I know I have one in KNP - and cincol has one in Pilanesberg and an international cacher (spuza) has on on TMNP. We also have one in the Drakensberg / St Lucia wetlands - so most of these are in protected areas.

 

Don't tell me the earthcaches were archived too. Now that would be a knee jerk reaction if ever I saw one.

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Please keep us in the loop - especially if I can assist with a letter regarding Earthcaches - I know I have one in KNP - and cincol has one in Pilanesberg and an international cacher (spuza) has on on TMNP. We also have one in the Drakensberg / St Lucia wetlands - so most of these are in protected areas.

 

Don't tell me the earthcaches were archived too. Now that would be a knee jerk reaction if ever I saw one.

The earthcache in the KNP has not been archived. I've interpreted the KNP's issues as being about physical cache containers, and nothing's been said about earthcaches yet.
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I just think of all the caches in the TMNP. Do all of them need permission?

In answer to your question - probably yes.

I'll be addressing the bigger SANParks issue in the new year together with the KNP.

 

For now, I've lifted the self-imposed ban on new caches for most of the Table Mountain National Park.

The bulk of TMNP does not have controlled access at all, and I'll publish caches there provided that they don't contravene any rules. Per SANParks website "A unique feature of the TMNP is that it is primarily an open access Park with only three points where conservation fees are payable, Cape of Good Hope, Boulders and Silvermine, the rest of the Park is open access and free for all to enjoy."

 

The ban remains for the controlled access areas at Cape of Good Hope, Boulders and Silvermine.

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As so far as earth caches in the Drakensberg and St lucia are concerned I personelly met with management there and explained everything that was envolved - as it did not affect any wildlife (no containers etc.)they were OK with it - they where also please as we ariased awairness to some of the issues..... one serious advantage to earth caches... (this is requirement of earth caches.....!!!!)

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Thanks to Fish Eagle for the update today. Really a pity that no real progress has been made on the KNP issues. I will be in SA on holiday and visiting the KNP in May and was looking forward to the restrictions having being relaxed, or at least formalized by then - but that is not to be. :) Anyway, it now looks as though everybody has a bit more clarity on what is allowed and what is not.

 

Happy caching everyone.

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Thanks to Fish Eagle for the update today. Really a pity that no real progress has been made on the KNP issues. I will be in SA on holiday and visiting the KNP in May and was looking forward to the restrictions having being relaxed, or at least formalized by then - but that is not to be. :) Anyway, it now looks as though everybody has a bit more clarity on what is allowed and what is not.

 

Happy caching everyone.

Today's update is the part in blue about Empisini in KZN - the KNP restrictions have been there for a few months already.

There's no progress with the KNP, because I haven't met with them yet.

But, the good news is that I'll be meeting with the Head of Conservation on Thursday. I'm still confident, but then I'm also the eternal optimist...!! :D

 

Maybe you'll have some KNP caches to find by May...? Who knows...?

 

I'll post here as soon as I have more info.

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Hi Andy.

 

We know the amount of time & work you've put into the preperation of this meeting and we all want to wish you the best of luck. We'll be thinking of you on Thursday and believe that you will show them what is Geocaching all about.

We'll also be waiting for your report not later than 10:00am the same day. :)

 

Good luck. We know you'll do your best as allways.

 

From,

Bouts & fellow cachers.

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Hi Andy.

 

We know the amount of time & work you've put into the preperation of this meeting and we all want to wish you the best of luck. We'll be thinking of you on Thursday and believe that you will show them what is Geocaching all about.

We'll also be waiting for your report not later than 10:00am the same day. :)

 

Good luck. We know you'll do your best as allways.

 

From,

Bouts & fellow cachers.

Hey, thanks!! :D

 

10:00 might be a bit awkward seeing as my meeting is only at 14:00, but who knows, anything can be "arranged" in SA..... :D

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Thanks for your efforst Andy - above and beyond the call of duty for all us cachers.

 

Also - I'd like to add onto the Empisini no-go area. It was my cache that was found and that prompted the ban. I sent a mail to the park officials - who after finding the cache had registered on Geocaching.com - and sent a note to the cache owner (Ysbeer & I). I mailed them to apologise for the inconvenience and explain caching.

 

But als - too late - they had already contacted Fish Eagle - and had liked the idea of caching so much that they are planning a geocaching trail on their reserve - with 6 odd caches taking cachers to the ebst parts of the park (far nicer than the single cache i had on trail side).

 

Well done guys - I can only commend your attitude and using geocaching promote the reserve and encourage cachers to come visit. This is a great example of how we can work together. In retrospect - I guess i should have approached them earlier and explained the details. Perhaps this is something we can all learn from - and just because the land has free access - does not mean that owners are automatically adverse - but can actually work to assist and maintain caches.

 

Well done once more.

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Hi from the Kruger Park!!

Some feedback from my meeting today.....

 

Up front, I'd like to thank the senior official who I met with today for making time in his very busy schedule to talk to me about geocaching. I learnt some new things today (like they discovered and removed a mega illegal cache in the KNP as long as 5 years ago. I didn't know that, and no wonder we couldn't find it back then. We thought the co-ords were wrong because they pointed to way off in the bush, but that's where the rangers found it!!), and I now have a much better understanding of some of the issues from their viewpoint.

 

In my opinion, good news!! :D

 

Firstly, earthcaches have blanket approval, and are encouraged. The KNP is very rich in geology, so there are many opportunities here. I'll try to establish further contact in the future to obtain some scientific assistance with setting them up properly. So, the existing earthcache in the KNP GC1785M is approved, and anybody wishing to create a KNP earthcache is free to do so. I'll be communicating with the earthcache reviewer regarding this blanket permission for KNP earthcache submissions in the future. But, it must be done within the KNP's rules, and in no way encourage geocachers to break any rules. KNP Code of Conduct

 

Secondly, the KNP is supportive of geocaching, so they don't have a problem in principle with "GPS gaming" within the park. This means that virtual waypoints of a multi-cache or mystery cache within the park are OK, provided that the final (physical) hide is outside the park. (More about physical caches in the park later) At this stage, that means that should you wish to create a multi-cache or mystery cache which uses virtual clues off something already there (eg, signs in birdhides, etc), and hide the final (physical) cache outside the park (say just outside an entrance gate), then go for it - that has blanket permission, provided that it is done 100% within KNP's rules, and that the cache listing contains educational content.

 

The above has been agreed to, and may be implemented immediately.

 

Thirdly, the more difficult subject of physical containers. This is the highly sensitive issue, which has ramifications beyond the obvious, and needs further consultation. I have been invited to submit a detailed proposal regarding the hiding of physical containers in the park. The ultimate decision will be taken at their Board level, and we've agreed that my proposal will contain various options and combinations of container, hide method, location, approval process, etc, and they will decide what's OK and what's not. Not wanting to pre-empt their decision in any way, it appears that physical cache hides in the KNP could be acceptable, but within specific parameters and restrictions.

 

Based on our initial discussions, it appears that:

- physical caches within fenced areas (like rest camps) could be OK, and outside fenced areas not OK.

- small containers, with only a logsheet/logscroll and pencil could be OK, but bigger boxes with McToys not OK.

- all cache listings should contain educational content.

- our normal process of hide a cache, and submit for review is probably not OK, and that a different process will be agreed on.

- the park might choose to have approved caches listed on it's own name, not the cache provider's name.

 

I never broached the subject of some larger caches for TB Hotels in the park, but based on what I've learnt, I think it could be possible if done in the right manner. I'll tackle that later.

 

That's it....

The process continues, and I'll keep you posted on developments.

 

Viva geocaching in the KNP!!!

Not the reason we go there, but for us geo-nutters, it certainly enhances our KNP experience. ;);):D

Edited by Fish Eagle
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Great job Andy. But that's why you were hired. :P

 

Just don't ask for a raise. hehe.

 

~erik~

 

Edited to add, I retract part of the above. I'm going to ask that your salary be doubled. Interestingly, the resulting figure is the same in Rand as in Dollars. :(

Edited by erik88l-r
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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Well done Andy!!! I'm so glad that you were able to make so much good progress on this matter.

 

It is like you said - I don't go to KNP for caching either, but hey, it sure does enhance the enjoyment of the trip. :laughing:

 

I was very worried that all caches in parks in SA were going to be banned - personally - these caches are the ones I prefer finding - since it takes me out into nature.

 

At some stage I was wondering about my cache that is in the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park. When wanting to place one, I didn't know where to ask permission for that one - and it is the only cache in a 250km+ radius around it.

It is in a very good and 'legal' hiding spot (in regards with park rules). It is not in a fenced off area though - so cachers have to attempt it with extreme caution.

 

Maybe once all of the issues and concerns have been dealt with - we can get into contact with someone there too that can be made aware of its presence? I'd feel more comfortable with that too. :(

 

Thanks again Andy, for being our voice. :P

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Thanks, Andy, for all your hard work! This is FANTASTIC news, and the potential to have physical caches back in the park is more than I thought possible. Just the fact that the board is willing to look at a proposal is a step in the right direction.

 

It sounds like it will take some work, coming up with the right combination of size, location, and hide type. The educational requirement should be the easy part, since there is so much to learn about within the park.

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I just noticed that the three caches I logged in Kruger NP last July had been archived. I posted a note with my thoughts on this on the Leadwood Strangler page..

 

I'm pleased to see that progress has been made on this issue and negotiations are open. If the viewpoint of a foreign visitor is useful please feel free to use my comment any way you wish.

 

Neva Pruess, caching as NevaP

Lincoln, Nebraska, USA

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Some good news - there have been recent discussions with Agriculture and Environmental Management for the City of Tshwane, and the basics of a land use policy have been agreed. This is a big step ahead with "cleaning up our act", and obtaining proper permission for our geocache placements.

 

Big thanks to RedGlobe for his efforts, and big thanks to the officials who have embraced geocaching on their properties in a positive manner. We have some new geocachers too, but you'll need to work out who they are on your own. We look forward to a long and mutually beneficial geo-relationship into the future.

 

In a nutshell, geocaching is permitted, and caches may be placed, but with proper permission. The process for obtaining permission will be shared later once the nuts and bolts have been worked out, but it's not likely to be cumbersome. All existing geocaches on their properties will be inspected, and either "legalised", or removed if they deem it undesirable.

 

The Department of Agriculture and Environmental Management for the City of Tshwane controls many properties, of which some are more sensitive than others, and they are obviously the best judges thereof. They plan to hide some new geocaches of their own too, which will share some of the hidden gems that only they know about.

 

Until we have the permission process sorted out, anyone wanting to hide a cache in any of these parks, can contact JohnC1@TSHWANE.GOV.ZA

At this stage, Rietvlei Nature Reserve remains highly sensitive, but with proper discussions directly with the management, a new cache in that area can be possible. This will be one area that they will hide their own caches to show the rest of the geocaching community some history and awareness of nature.

 

The following are the parks under their control -

1. Rietvlei Nature Reserve and fishing area at the dam

2. Groenkloof Nature Reserve

3. Fearie Glen Nature Reserve

4. Wonderboom Nature Reserve

5. Bishop bird park (Rooihuiskraal area)

6. Austin Roberts bird sanctuary

7. Boardwalk bird sanctuary

8. Chaimberlain bird sanctuary

9. Strubendam bird sanctuary

10. Techno Park bird sanctuary

11. Moreletakloof Nature Reserve

12. Pierre van Rhyneveld Nature area

13. Luton Valley bird sanctuary

14. Fonteinedal leisure resort

15. Moretele leisure resort (Mamelodi)

16. Derdepoort leisure resort

17. Joos Becker Caravan Park

18. Rooiwal leisure resort (Naby die Rooiwal kragstasie)

19. Klipkruisfotein leisure resort (Soshanguve)

20. Ga-Mothakga leisure resort (Atteridgeville, next to Church street extension - west)

21. Kwaggaspruit leisure resort (Corner of Quagga west and Trans Oranje in Pretoria West)

22. Zwartkops leisure resort

23. Rooihuiskraal leisure resort (Rooihuiskraal historiese feesterrein)

24. Findel park (Centurion area)

25. The reeds (Centurion area)

26. Hennops river

27. Quaggasrand (Laudium area)

28. Panorama park (Centurion area)

29. Raslouw park (Centurion area)

30. Sunderland ridge (Centurion area)

31. Colbyn valley (in the East)

32. Lucas rand

33. Frank Struben Bird sanctuary

34. Magaliesberg range

35. Chaimberlains

36. Klapperkop

37. Zandfontein

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Thanks Fish Eagle for the assistance, we will try and find a solution that will not add too much of a burden on you, before a cache can be listed on the Geocaching web site.

 

We, the geo-cachers must take the responsibility for the approval before we submit a cache for listing. On the end of the day it is us that tick the box that our cache has adequate permission.

 

Fish Eagle; enjoy your holiday and hopefully by the time you are back we will have a process that can work for every one.

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I just hid a new cache in the Mont Rochelle Nature reserve in the Franschhoek area. I called the park administrators and recieved permission for the cache. They are aware of the other caches in the reserve and seem to have no problems with them being there. It is a beautiful reserve with some magnificent hikes. It certainly has space for one or two more caches. Information on who to contact for cache permission can be obtained via the Franschhoek tourist info.

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Recently I've tried to obtain permission from Sappi Forestry to place a series of caches at various hidden gems on their landholdings. These would have been waterfalls, picknick sites, dams etc.

 

Most of the managers I've spoken to already knew what Geocaching is,some seemed keen on my idea but others not. I explained that I was planning to place "multi caches" whith the starting point being at the plantation offices where the cachers would have to get permits first before being given the first clue (Thereby covering most of the legal issues. Then only would they be able to find the cache. All my well laid out plans came to a grinding halt when head office declined permission to place the caches. According to records there were a number of incidents where caches were allowed on Sappi land but the cachers did not obey the permit conditions and they were found driving around all over the plantations and causing nonsense in some cases. They have also recently started to look at GPS map suppliers like Tracks 4 Africa and requested them to remove all the points of interest which falls on Sappi land from their maps. Obviously they can't remove National heritage sites, but smaller points like waterfalls and picknick spots and private roads through the plantations will be gone.

 

As an employee of Sappi it does make me sad that a lot of these hidden gems can't be shared with the public, but on the other hand I also understand the company's problems. Even if you as a visitor have a valid permit and have signed an indemnity Sappi can still be held liable should anything happen to you while you are on their property.

 

As of yet I have not heard of any talk about removing caches which are already placed on Sappi land, but you have a snowball's hope in hell to try and get permission to place any new caches (I almost got into deep trouble when I insisted on a review of the decision).

 

So this is perhaps also an entry for the no-go areas :(

 

I guess another case where a few rotten apples spoiled the whole load.

 

Sorry guys, I tried.

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Recently I've tried to obtain permission from Sappi Forestry to place a series of caches at various hidden gems on their landholdings. These would have been waterfalls, picknick sites, dams etc.

 

Most of the managers I've spoken to already knew what Geocaching is,some seemed keen on my idea but others not. I explained that I was planning to place "multi caches" whith the starting point being at the plantation offices where the cachers would have to get permits first before being given the first clue (Thereby covering most of the legal issues. Then only would they be able to find the cache. All my well laid out plans came to a grinding halt when head office declined permission to place the caches. According to records there were a number of incidents where caches were allowed on Sappi land but the cachers did not obey the permit conditions and they were found driving around all over the plantations and causing nonsense in some cases. They have also recently started to look at GPS map suppliers like Tracks 4 Africa and requested them to remove all the points of interest which falls on Sappi land from their maps. Obviously they can't remove National heritage sites, but smaller points like waterfalls and picknick spots and private roads through the plantations will be gone.

 

As an employee of Sappi it does make me sad that a lot of these hidden gems can't be shared with the public, but on the other hand I also understand the company's problems. Even if you as a visitor have a valid permit and have signed an indemnity Sappi can still be held liable should anything happen to you while you are on their property.

 

As of yet I have not heard of any talk about removing caches which are already placed on Sappi land, but you have a snowball's hope in hell to try and get permission to place any new caches (I almost got into deep trouble when I insisted on a review of the decision).

 

So this is perhaps also an entry for the no-go areas :(

 

I guess another case where a few rotten apples spoiled the whole load.

 

Sorry guys, I tried.

 

Thank you PhillipF - as an ex-Sappi employee, I am aware of many of these gems too and have often thought about the possibility of caching.

 

I thank you for your efforts, and if there is any option of perhaps going through their cor[orate website, or a letter from the reviewers of SA (me included) - to ask for a reversal - or at least a moratorium on certain areas that are publicly accessible - such as Karkloof Falls or the Ngodwana Lime Kilns (or by permit - such as Mashonamien or Lake Mavuya).

 

We could also as a caching community write positive reviews and comments on their external website on the "Sustainability feedback" - this is also always positively taken and appreciated by large corporates.

 

Earthcaches and CITOs could also be a way to promote caching within Sappi (or any other organisation).

 

I suppose have incidents that are referred to would also be useful - as this could assist the geocaching community to learn and hopefully respond positively and proactively.

 

Please advise if you feel this is worth pursuing?

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The page to leave comments on would be:

 

http://www.sappi.com/regions/sa/service/contact/Pages/ContactsSa.aspx

 

Some of the memorable caches on Sappi land that I am aware of are:

Battle of


  •  
  • Helvetia
  • Stone Huts
  • Karkloof Falls
  • C'mon baby light my fire

 

As far as I know, The battle of Helvetia site, the Stone huts at Helvetia and the Lime Kilns are all national heritage sites and Sappi will not be able to deny anybody access to those areas. They might want to control access in the form of permits etc, but by law they cannot deny you access to those areas and the caches which was placed in those areas are safe as far as I'm concerned.

 

I was hoping to put caches in places like the Mpompomo Waterfall at Glenthorpe, the Camping site at Elandshoogte or the Waterfall at Mooifontein. These are however where the problems start. They are in the plantations and that is where the danger of harvesting operations, loaded trucks and heavy machinery starts. There are however a number of provincial roads running through the plantations and if somebody was to place a cache next to those roads there shouldn't be a problem. It's once cachers leave provincial roads and start driving around on private Sappi land where the problem begins.

 

I have spoken to the forester at Helvetia and he is happy to allow people to visit the old post office on the wagon route, the hotel and wagon house and the Lady Roberts Gun site, but...he'd prefer that they are accompanied by a Sappi employee. I'm considering creating an event once a year where I will go with cachers to these sites. Once again one runs the risk of these sites being gps'ed and those coordinates finding their way into the world and brining the rotten apples around to spoil the fun for the rest of us (not to mention endanger my job!). But I will keep you posted.

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Did you know there was a full length article on Geocaching in "THELEAFLET" a quarterly newsletter about 2 years ago?

 

If you want I can try and get the old editor to scan and send me a copy of it.

 

There was a forester at Shafton who also cached with someone from Cascades HO too.

 

Interesting...If it is possible I would like to read that article. Even if you just have the date of The Leaflet I could possibly find one somewhere here.

 

I think the fact that there was a drowning at one of the dams on Sabey made Sappi reassess the whole public access issue. Really sad, but hey, nothing I can do about it now :)

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Even if you as a visitor have a valid permit and have signed an indemnity Sappi can still be held liable should anything happen to you while you are on their property.

 

This is the bane of our modern lives... mad.gif Almost every corporate & government decision can be traced back to this in some form or another.

 

Kudos to you for trying. The few attempts I made to discuss caches and CITOs with officialdom has left me completely demotivated - I don't have the strength to duplicate my work frustrations in one of my hobbies.

 

OK, I feel better now, back to enjoying those places accessible to us all! biggrin.gif

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Just an update for keeping this thread relevant.

 

Note the great resource that was created a few years back by fish Eagle & Globalrat - comments would be welcomed.

 

Also - an additional comment from me as a reviewer - ALWAYS think about the unexpected when placing a cache - and what would the consequences be?

 

Examples

  • What if the cachers approach from the other side (e.g. Highway rather than "obvious access road")
  • What if kids come along
  • what if the cacher brings a dog
  • what if the cacher is not South African (e.g. Chinese, Arab, Congolese, German)
  • What happens if the cacher arrives at midnight and starts lookijng in the wrong places?
  • What happens if 5 cars arrive at the same time to look for the cache
  • what happens if cachers arrive durign a specific day, Ramadan, Christmas, Easter, Diwali, MayDay, Freedom Day, etc.)
  • is there a differwence between summer and winter (wet/dry, warm/cold, vegetation, snakes etc.)
  • Is the Terrain/Difficulty accurate in terms of the info you have given?
  • Train lines, public roads etc - are there any danger times?
  • Land owner permission (especially for older caches that you have and the land ownership may have changed)

 

Hope this stimulates some discussion so we can update the info.

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