Frustrating...

[+ODragon]

Ugh, I'm planning a trip in the near future to New England and looking at the earthcaches up there. There are a lot of interesting ones, however, I think I will be skipping many of them because of the lack of additional waypoints and worse, coordinates on the geocaching page given in some format other than the geocaching standard.

 

Geocaching gives this great additional waypoint feature so we don't have to put them in by hand. They're in a format geocachers can easily add to their GPSrs (even if they do it by hand).

 

I think GeoAware should require that all additional waypoints be added by this feature or at the very least, make sure coordinates on the page are in the geocaching format.

 

Argh...

[+catsnfish]

I may be somewhat guilty of that. My only EarthCache that has additional coordinates has them listed within the text. I did that so That geoaware had those coordinates when I submitted the cache. After it was adopted I reworked my html and added the additional points through the "system" so that they show up on queries as child waypoints and left them in the text as well.

I don't know the process that geoaware goes through to submit our caches but I would think if he would have to manually add those points prior to publishing, it is asking too much. Maybe a blanket reminder on the adoption email , to add child waypoints. It should be the CO's responsibility to make their EarthCache page as visitor friendly as possible.

[+Lostby7]

I would agree ODragon...but then as soon as the cache is published all bets are off in terms of edits made.

[+ODragon]

I would agree ODragon...but then as soon as the cache is published all bets are off in terms of edits made.

Bingo... Geoaware should adopt them over, have the cache owner make the edits, THEN publish it... (Yes, it can be done that way).

[+ODragon]

Interesting response from the owner of one of the earthcaches that I requested add geocaching coordinates (rather than whatever format they posted)...

 

We are required to submit all of our information on the EarthCache

forms, including the gps information so I have no way to edit the

information in Geocaching format. But we're pretty new at this so I

will contact the gatekeepers and see if they would know if it is

possible.

I explained how you update a page. Here's to hoping that they will...

[+Renegade Knight]

Ugh, I'm planning a trip in the near future to New England and looking at the earthcaches up there. There are a lot of interesting ones, however, I think I will be skipping many of them because of the lack of additional waypoints and worse, coordinates on the geocaching page given in some format other than the geocaching standard....

 

Perhaps because WGS 84 is a new datum and the coords are handy in a GPS, neither of which existed when much of the field work was being done?

 

Odds are your GPS has both the datum and format used. Switch it to those. Input. Switch it back to WGS84 and DD MM.MMM and you are done. EarthCache owners can also do that to convert the coords to "Geocaching Standard" when setting up a EarthCache

Edited September 15, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+Rev Mike]

I would agree ODragon...but then as soon as the cache is published all bets are off in terms of edits made.

Bingo... Geoaware should adopt them over, have the cache owner make the edits, THEN publish it... (Yes, it can be done that way).

 

This is an interesting point... It really would be great if the final edit of an EarthCache listing could be done pre-publish. Everytime I have submitted an EC I have found myself glued to the computer awaiting the adoption request so I could hurry and edit the listing before anyone goes after it. I do include all of my additional waypoints into the text and then enter them in the additional waypoits section after the cache is live. Attributes are another thing I don't like submitting a cache without.

 

I could care less when a traditional or any other cache I submit gets published but ECs have me stuck at the computer because I want anyone, who is taking the time to seek them out, to have access to the finished product.

 

BTW - Where are you headed, O?

 

- Rev Mike

[+Juicepig]

I would agree ODragon...but then as soon as the cache is published all bets are off in terms of edits made.

Bingo... Geoaware should adopt them over, have the cache owner make the edits, THEN publish it... (Yes, it can be done that way).

 

It isn't a big deal so long as the owner accepts adoption in a timely manner, and adds them manually later.

 

Only really frustrating if you are going for FTF (Or FT-log in the case of ECs)

[+Clarkbowman]

I would agree ODragon...but then as soon as the cache is published all bets are off in terms of edits made.

Bingo... Geoaware should adopt them over, have the cache owner make the edits, THEN publish it... (Yes, it can be done that way).

 

I think GeoAware may be on the over worked side now , with the load of Earthcaches being submited, Let alone wanting GeoAware to have to deal with each cache twice. The Cache owner should take care of this. If you find one, send the owner a note. See if they will fix it.

[+ODragon]

I think GeoAware may be on the over worked side now , with the load of Earthcaches being submited, Let alone wanting GeoAware to have to deal with each cache twice. The Cache owner should take care of this. If you find one, send the owner a note. See if they will fix it.

Oh, as I said above, I have sent the owner an e-mail and they weren't so sure about if they were allowed, etc. My feeling on things, is if they are not done before publication, odds are, they will never be done.

 

Look at how many old caches are out there with additional waypoints (parking, trailhead, etc) in the body of the text but not as an additional waypoint. (I'm not talking about by inactive cachers either... I mean active cachers). There are lots of them. Every time I plan a trip, I find many many caches like that. While I'm not saying people drop an earthcache and never update it, I'm just saying odds are if it isn't done right away, the chances of it happening are very low.

 

As for the overworked side, I hope not but I can't speak for them. My hope is that if they need help, they will ask. I bet people would help them.

[+Cardinal Red]

Look at how many old caches are out there with additional waypoints (parking, trailhead, etc) in the body of the text but not as an additional waypoint. (I'm not talking about by inactive cachers either... I mean active cachers). There are lots of them. Every time I plan a trip, I find many many caches like that.

 

Hi O. Perhaps some owners avoid some additional waypoints by choice. You are a far more efficient and prolific cacher than I, so I certainly can't fault your process. But, paperless Geocaching is not all good. Making someone actually read a cache page is not all bad. Many searches are conducted by cachers who only have minimal paperless info at hand. With all your finds, you must ocasionaly have come across destruction left in the wake of some of those idiots. That is what I truly find frustrating. If the info is on the cache page, that's good enough.

 

We can agree that all coordinate format and datum info should be in the geo standard.

[+ODragon]

Hi O. Perhaps some owners avoid some additional waypoints by choice. You are a far more efficient and prolific cacher than I, so I certainly can't fault your process. But, paperless Geocaching is not all good. Making someone actually read a cache page is not all bad. Many searches are conducted by cachers who only have minimal paperless info at hand. With all your finds, you must ocasionaly have come across destruction left in the wake of some of those idiots. That is what I truly find frustrating. If the info is on the cache page, that's good enough.

That's an interesting thought. For me, it's not about paperless caching that I want the additional waypoints. It's for efficiency and easy. I can't tell you the number of times I've put coordinates in my GPSr wrong when I do it by hand. When I'm doing an earthcache, I often have the print out because it is easier to read than the palm pilot when there is that much data. If they add the coordinate as "Spot 1" with nothing else, there is still a lot less of a chance that I will go to the wrong place, put in the wrong coordinates, etc. Relatedly, the additional waypoints are a great way to determine things such as distance to give one an idea of the work involved. If I'm just passing through, I probably won't be doing the 4 stage earthcache with 2 miles between each stage however, with 4 stages in a mile round trip, I might go out of my way. Many times (as with this case that brought up the topic), I've seen this kind of thing not even tell you that. They say Stage 1 is at these coords, lots of info, requirement at this stage... then Stage 2, etc. They don't give times, distances or anything. Without me plotting it out, I'll have no idea. At least with the additional waypoints, I can get crow fly estimates, etc.

 

I have come across destruction left by people who don't read. I've come across destruction left by people who attempted to read the page and found nothing there. I don't necessarily agree with you that it is good enough when it's only on the cache page. It is the minimal one can do. I don't expect people to read all my cache pages and that's ok. If they want to get the minimal out of it that is their choice. However, I try to (and would like others) to maximize their experiences and have all the information in multiple palatable ways. I think of them as minimizing work. If the cache owner puts in the additional waypoints, every cacher who choses to use them benefits and spends no extra effort. When they're not there, you have multiple people doing the same thing over and over again. It's sort of a time waster for all parties involved... This is sort of getting away from the topic though...

 

We can agree that all coordinate format and datum info should be in the geo standard.

At least we can agree on something!