Owner deletes posts

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Maybe he didn't like your tattoos.

 

I lol'd.

 

 

- Elle

[+Team GeoBlast]

I reported that I found a particular 3-star cache which I thought was dissatisfying (GCZT0W). I think I'm entitled to my opinion but the owner also feels entitled to delete my opinion. Now I voice my opinion and also note that the owner keeps deleting my posts. Thoughts anyone?

 

Returning to the topic for a moment. The fact is, seeker, you are NOT entitled to your opinion if the cache owner doesn't want it on the cache page. The discussion ends right there right or wrong. The fact that the cache owner and you are both posting here suggests that this is an issue that should have never been brought in here in front of this many eyes. It is between you two and should have never gotten out of a personal email discussion. To me, neither of you appear to be in the right here.

 

Perhaps there are few lessons to learn on both sides.

 

Finder: Don't use words like disinteresting even if that is the best word to describe your experience. There are other ways to say the same thing if you must post a negative log. Consider for a moment all of the other people that you have now included in your angst. All the people watching the cache, all of the people in this forum, and probably your local forum too. That is a lot of negative energy you've just spilled into the universe.

 

Hider: With 1800+ hides, don't you think that a few of them may very well be disinteresting? Did you send an email to the finder and explain why you were deleting his post or did you merely just delete it? I would think one carefully worded email could have stopped this entire situation from escalating and I have to think you could have saved everyone involved a lot of time and negative energy by addressing this issue with source.

 

In closing, nothing positive or new has been shared here. This type of thing drags down the entire game. You are both wrong for letting it get to this point.

[+runewell]

Returning to the topic for a moment. The fact is, seeker, you are NOT entitled to your opinion if the cache owner doesn't want it on the cache page. The discussion ends right there right or wrong.

 

If I'm reading the posts on page 2 right, I think I am entitled to my opinion. And the discussion certainly doesn't end there just because you showed up and posted an opinion on the matter.

 

That is a lot of negative energy you've just spilled into the universe.

 

Maybe 60% of the caches in town here are unremarkable so my comments will be brief. Another 30% may be nice caches deserving of some praise. I see no reason why the other 10% can't be game for some slight criticism. It can actually help others decide if they want to attempt the cache. If someone could have written that log to me I would have avoided the cache and been glad of it. Yet I know others will want to do the cache anyway and will get satisfaction from the find. So be it!

Edited August 27, 2008 by runewell

[+BlueDeuce]

I think I am entitled to my opinion.

 

I read this as saying you have a right to post your opinion, more accurately a negative editorial, on a cache page.

 

How do you think this right, or as you say entitlement, should be enforced? By gc.com who gave the right for a cache owner to delete postings for any reason?

 

Are you looking to gain that right or do you hate this one cache that much? I don't necessarily think you are wrong to try and claim that right I just really don't think being annoying to a cache owner is the best approach to reach your goal.

 

Show the results and state your case to the people who manage this site.

[+thedeadpirate]

How do you think this right, or as you say entitlement, should be enforced? By gc.com who gave the right for a cache owner to delete postings for any reason?

 

This is the part that I would still like an answer to. Michael posted that

 

If your cache found it log is deleted for no valid reason then it is an abuse of the Terms of Use. Send me an email with the original contents of the log and the GC# of the cache. Please send me the whole story accurately, as it will come out during the investigation. If it is determined that your log was indeed deleted for no valid reason then it will be put back by Groundspeak.

 

I have always been of the same understanding as you, BlueDeuce. The cache owner has final say so over what stays, right or wrong. I do know that with the addition of the ALR part of the guidelines that if you impose some extra rules for making a valid find on the cache that it must be listed as a puzzle cache. But I have yet to find anything in the TOS that says a cache owner deleting a log just because he doesn't like it is an abuse of the TOS.

 

I would still like for someone to point me to that part of the TOS. It's been stated time after time that a cache owner can delete a log for any reason he sees fit. (even if it's just because he's being a heel) I don't see anything in the TOS that even addresses the issue.

[+BlueDeuce]

Tut, tut. Don't carry what I said too far.

 

Currently cache owners can delete any post, for any reason. The...(probably not the right word) subject of a post apparently can now be brought up for review.

 

I am not aware of any right for any person to post whatever they want on a cache page. The owner can delete a post unless gc.com decides otherwise.

 

 

edit: changed the term finder to person

Edited August 28, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+Team GeoBlast]

If I'm reading the posts on page 2 right, I think I am entitled to my opinion. And the discussion certainly doesn't end there just because you showed up and posted an opinion on the matter.

 

You are definitely entitled to your opinion. But the cache owner is equally entitled to delete it.

 

That is a lot of negative energy you've just spilled into the universe.

 

I'm serious about this comment. This was a toxic spill of negativity all in the name of your right to dis someone freely.

 

Maybe 60% of the caches in town here are unremarkable so my comments will be brief.

 

Brief is how most people handle an unremarkable cache. But you went a little past that, didn't you? Again, you might be totally correct but disinteresting? C'mon now. Who is going to take that as constructive criticism?

 

Another 30% may be nice caches deserving of some praise. I see no reason why the other 10% can't be game for some slight criticism. It can actually help others decide if they want to attempt the cache. If someone could have written that log to me I would have avoided the cache and been glad of it. Yet I know others will want to do the cache anyway and will get satisfaction from the find. So be it!

 

Check with anyone who reads a lot of cache pages about this. If there are multiple "Found it" or TFTC logs that speaks volumes. You don't have to even go the extra mile and insult the cache owner and his placement like you did. If there is one thing that I have learned in this forum is that there's a wide spectrum of likes and dislikes when it comes to caches that people like to find. Although I would be willing to bet that we probably have the same taste in caches, what makes you think that everyone feels like you do?

 

The fact that you are so adamant about your "Jeremy given right" to dis a cache owner via a log on his page gives me pause. What special training do you have that makes you so certain that your opinion is so useful for the next cacher?

Edited August 28, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

Are you looking to gain that right or do you hate this one cache that much?

 

Thank-you.

 

What's happened here is you have lost perspective. You are putting out way too much energy getting your negative feeling known about this one cache. There are 641,828 active geocaches around the world for gosh sakes, why not go find some good ones to tell people about and direct your energy in that way?

[+runewell]

What special training do you have that makes you so certain that your opinion is so useful for the next cacher?

 

I never claimed this. In fact, I said that some people might benefit from my remarks and others might benefit from ignoring them and doing the cache anyway. You should be careful dissing other people's opinions as they also cause the toxic negative energy to spread farther out into the universe and beyond.

 

The owner can delete a post unless gc.com decides otherwise.

And the original poster can replace it.

 

If your cache found it log is deleted for no valid reason then it is an abuse of the Terms of Use.

There doesn't seem to be a clear definition of "no valid reason". Chances are nobody is going to find this spat serious enough to warrant a decision to one side or the other to stop the feud.

Edited August 29, 2008 by runewell

[+Criminal]

I'm not sure, but I think Criminal was simply countering the oft mentioned "the cache owner holds all the cards" argument. The counter is "I know where your cache is and you can't guard it 24/7."

Face it, your cache only exists due to the good graces of those who know it is there.

 

It looks like CoyoteRed was the only one that really got it, even though I got banned for saying it out loud. The point is that this is a game (that used to be about adventure- though now not so much, but that’s another subject). Regardless of whether you’re a cache owner or a cache finder (or both) you are supposed to play nice.

 

It isn’t just your cache that ‘exists by the good graces of those who know it’s there’ either, but the entire game balances on a razor’s edge. Remember what happened in South Carolina? Now contemplate what someone pissed off could do on purpose. Seriously, one person with a creative mind for really bad hides (approval is moot) and a handful of official geocache stickers could get the entire game banned in a state before you could say Rumplelstiltskin. Several states and the game could go away entirely. That’s means you’d have to find a new hobby, a few self absorbed moderators would have to go back to being mere mortals, and some really nice people in Seattle would need to look for other jobs. So yeah, delete someone’s honest criticism of your lame cache hide, start a war you won’t win, but try not to be too dependent on geocaching for your entertainment.

 

It’s a game; play nice.

[+meralgia]

runewell: "nobody is going to find this spat serious enough to warrant a decision to one side or the other to stop the feud."

 

Personally I think it's a little strange that it's gone on THIS long... i'll step in and be a down-to-earth sister. Keep in mind that "it's just a smiley". Gee whiz...

Edited August 30, 2008 by meralgia

[+runewell]

runewell: "nobody is going to find this spat serious enough to warrant a decision to one side or the other to stop the feud."

 

Personally I think it's a little strange that it's gone on THIS long... i'll step in and be a down-to-earth sister. Keep in mind that "it's just a smiley". Gee whiz...

 

Oh great bring my sis in on this. Gee meralgia, your caches are suddenly starting to dissatisfy me. I'd better go inform the world...

 

Remember what happened in South Carolina?

Umm, no they didn't cover that in basic training and it didn't make the list of "25 things a geocacher absolutely needs to know"

Edited August 31, 2008 by runewell

[+Team GeoBlast]

What special training do you have that makes you so certain that your opinion is so useful for the next cacher?

 

I never claimed this. In fact, I said that some people might benefit from my remarks and others might benefit from ignoring them and doing the cache anyway. You should be careful dissing other people's opinions as they also cause the toxic negative energy to spread farther out into the universe and beyond.

 

All I am saying is that there are ways to communicate what you are attempting to communicate without insulting someone. You seem to be advocating for your right of free speech to say whatever you please in a log and it has never, ever, been like that when it comes to a log on the cache page. The cache page is the cache owners domain and he or she alone makes the call if your comments stay on the page or not. Period. All this reference to the TOS is pure poppycock.

 

The owner can delete a post unless gc.com decides otherwise.

And the original poster can replace it.

So this is how you choose to recreate?

 

If your cache found it log is deleted for no valid reason then it is an abuse of the Terms of Use.

There doesn't seem to be a clear definition of "no valid reason". Chances are nobody is going to find this spat serious enough to warrant a decision to one side or the other to stop the feud.

 

With all due respect, let this go already. You will never convince anyone with the power to make a change to Geocaching globally, just so you can go around leaving blunt brutal comments on cache pages. That is what this forum is for.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+traildad]

I support the "If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all" approach to cache logs. A simple found it should be enough. I can understand a little, if you are talking about something more objective than it was dissatisfying.

[+fizzymagic]

I support the "If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all" approach to cache logs.

That approach, while admirable in its intent, is one of the reasons so many caches suck. Not to say that I think being blunt is necessarily better; there has to be some middle ground. I too often find myself in the "say something nice or nothing" mode, but in some ways I am doing a disservice to other cachers who are trying to find decent caches.

 

As for the "every hide is a gift" argument that somebody made: Gifts can suck, too, you know. Just because it is a gift doesn't mean we have to like it and say nothing. Try giving your wife a pair of cleaning gloves and a scrub-brush for your anniversary, and you'll see what I mean!

[+traildad]

I support the "If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all" approach to cache logs.

That approach, while admirable in its intent, is one of the reasons so many caches suck. Not to say that I think being blunt is necessarily better; there has to be some middle ground. I too often find myself in the "say something nice or nothing" mode, but in some ways I am doing a disservice to other cachers who are trying to find decent caches.

 

As for the "every hide is a gift" argument that somebody made: Gifts can suck, too, you know. Just because it is a gift doesn't mean we have to like it and say nothing. Try giving your wife a pair of cleaning gloves and a scrub-brush for your anniversary, and you'll see what I mean!

I think I would agree with what you say. I guess the question is how best to reduce the rate of caches that suck. All the blunt criticism we can think of won't improve caches if the words are rejected and deleted.

[+sbell111]

As for the "every hide is a gift" argument that somebody made: Gifts can suck, too, you know. Just because it is a gift doesn't mean we have to like it and say nothing. Try giving your wife a pair of cleaning gloves and a scrub-brush for your anniversary, and you'll see what I mean!

I don't think that that is a good analogy. The reason that I think this is because a wedding anniversary gift is a duty. (If you don't believe me, all you have to do is not do anything the next time your anniversary rolls around.) Conversely, a person is under no obligation to hide a cache. Edited August 31, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

You will never convince anyone with the power to make a change to Geocaching globally, just so you can go around leaving blunt brutal comments on cache pages. That is what this forum is for.

I'd like to nominate this for Post of the Week.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

As for the "every hide is a gift" argument that somebody made: Gifts can suck, too, you know. Just because it is a gift doesn't mean we have to like it and say nothing. Try giving your wife a pair of cleaning gloves and a scrub-brush for your anniversary, and you'll see what I mean!

I don't think that that is a good analogy. The reason that I think this is because a wedding anniversary gift is a duty. (If you don't believe me, all you have to do is not do anything the next time your anniversary rolls around.) Conversely, a person is under no obligation to hide a cache.

 

Related to the subject and not really what sbell111 said...

The whole idea of gifts just has me rolling my eyes. Someone told me that their waymarks were gifts and I laughed out loud at my monitor. This is no different than saying the quarterback throwing the ball to the receiver is a gift, or when you pass the ball in bball it's a gift, or checking someone against the wall so hard their tooth breaks in hockey is a gift. Merry Christmas!

 

We play games, sports and hobbies because we all enjoy doing it. If we enjoy hiding caches, we hide. If we enjoy hunting caches, we hunt. It's cooperative so there will always be other people doing things that can enhance our experience, but it's mutually enjoyable for people to find what people have hid. If there are gifts involved, then everyone is gifting everyone else and there's gifts out the wazoo. What's the point of calling it a gift then? It's just having fun with something that's primarily designed to be fun.

 

There are people who think everything is a gift. Having dinner every night is a gift. Having a roof over your head is a gift. Being healthy is a gift. A child's laughter is a gift. Love's a gift. Life's a gift.

 

So is geocaching a gift in the sense that "you MUST be grateful that I've taken the time to do something for you" or is it a gift in the sense of "Everything that we enjoy is a gift and life is glorious"? If someone believes it's the former, I think they should get a serious attitude readjustment. I find people with a sense of entitlement to be very unattractive. Always say "thank you", always be grateful, always have fun, but nobody owes anybody anything.

 

If you have anything negative to say any productive comments for improvement of the cache, message the cache owner through the system and leave it out of the comment. If they'll change it, they'll change it. If they aren't going to change it, it won't make a difference how you contacted them. At least this way your comment/find/smilie stays on the page, eh?

 

- Elle

[Clan Riffster]

I 'summoned my inner mountain goat' (SSPG), and climbed

Steady-State Plasma Glucose?

 

Back on topic: As many have already mentioned, the owner usually has ultimate control over what gets posted in the logs of their caches. There have been rare occasions when Groundspeak has taken action against cache owners who delete legitimate find logs, but don't hold your breath. My advice? If you absolutely must have that particular smiley, (and the owner deletes your previous entry), type something they will accept. Otherwise, place the cache, (along with all their other hides), on your ignore list and move on. It's not worth a war.

[+Harry Dolphin]

So is geocaching a gift in the sense that "you MUST be grateful that I've taken the time to do something for you" or is it a gift in the sense of "Everything that we enjoy is a gift and life is glorious"? If someone believes it's the former, I think they should get a serious attitude readjustment. I find people with a sense of entitlement to be very unattractive. Always say "thank you", always be grateful, always have fun, but nobody owes anybody anything.

 

If you have anything negative to say any productive comments for improvement of the cache, message the cache owner through the system and leave it out of the comment. If they'll change it, they'll change it. If they aren't going to change it, it won't make a difference how you contacted them. At least this way your comment/find/smilie stays on the page, eh?

 

Oh, dear. I must be pushing my luck! (Bad dolphin! Smack!) Finished the requirements for the DeLorme Challenge a week ago. (And we went to some very beautiful places!) Went for the final of the DeLorme Challenge yesterday (which was a 180 mile round trip).

We decided to spend today working on some of the 110 caches that have accumulated on my Ten-Mile List. We're tired, so we worked on some of the easier, newer ones. Found 7, DNFed 3. One was pretty. One was interesting. The rest are micro-spew at its worst! Film canister in a guard rail by a water tower. A good wind will blow this one away. LPC in a church parking lot? Gurad rail at a high school athletic field? Sorry, none of them are a 1 terrain. Grab them fast. They won't last. Okay. Finally, I relented and said "Thanks for bringing me to such a beautiful place' for the LPC at the Drug Fair.

If my logs get deleted, I will relog with SLTNLN. If that gets deleted, the owner goes on my ignore list.

Nope. I tell it like it is. Guess I shouldn't have logged 'Clearing out spew'? Oh, well.

[+runewell]

So this is how you choose to recreate?

Team Geoblast putting more words in my mouth. Of course it is not recreation in my mind, it is only what is necessary for my cache comment to stay put. Recreation for you is obviously overblowing this topic to heights I never imagined.

 

That approach ["If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all"] , while admirable in its intent, is one of the reasons so many caches suck. Not to say that I think being blunt is necessarily better; there has to be some middle ground. I too often find myself in the "say something nice or nothing" mode, but in some ways I am doing a disservice to other cachers who are trying to find decent caches.

 

Exactly. The microspew is another topic altogether, but in an urban area it's the alternative to running out of caches.

[Clan Riffster]

The microspew is another topic altogether, but in an urban area it's the alternative to running out of caches.

Personally, I think running out of caches is better than having an area get infected by the film canister virus. In accordance with my, (incredibly biased), aesthetics, quality trumps quantity every time. Note: This is not a call to ban film canisters.

[+sbell111]

As for the "every hide is a gift" argument that somebody made: Gifts can suck, too, you know. Just because it is a gift doesn't mean we have to like it and say nothing. Try giving your wife a pair of cleaning gloves and a scrub-brush for your anniversary, and you'll see what I mean!

I don't think that that is a good analogy. The reason that I think this is because a wedding anniversary gift is a duty. (If you don't believe me, all you have to do is not do anything the next time your anniversary rolls around.) Conversely, a person is under no obligation to hide a cache.

Related to the subject and not really what sbell111 said...

The whole idea of gifts just has me rolling my eyes. Someone told me that their waymarks were gifts and I laughed out loud at my monitor. This is no different than saying the quarterback throwing the ball to the receiver is a gift, or when you pass the ball in bball it's a gift, or checking someone against the wall so hard their tooth breaks in hockey is a gift. Merry Christmas!

These analogies are similarly flawed. A quarterback or basketball player has an obligation to pass the ball (or lose his spot on the team). A geocacher has no similar obligation to place a cache.

We play games, sports and hobbies because we all enjoy doing it. If we enjoy hiding caches, we hide. If we enjoy hunting caches, we hunt. It's cooperative so there will always be other people doing things that can enhance our experience, but it's mutually enjoyable for people to find what people have hid. If there are gifts involved, then everyone is gifting everyone else and there's gifts out the wazoo. What's the point of calling it a gift then? It's just having fun with something that's primarily designed to be fun.

Just because there are plenty of caches to find because lots of people give to the community doesn't mean that that the cache owners weren't giving back to the community by placing the cache. It certainly doesn't mean that we should all be snotty in our logs.

There are people who think everything is a gift. Having dinner every night is a gift. Having a roof over your head is a gift. Being healthy is a gift. A child's laughter is a gift. Love's a gift. Life's a gift.

 

So is geocaching a gift in the sense that "you MUST be grateful that I've taken the time to do something for you" or is it a gift in the sense of "Everything that we enjoy is a gift and life is glorious"? If someone believes it's the former, I think they should get a serious attitude readjustment. I find people with a sense of entitlement to be very unattractive. Always say "thank you", always be grateful, always have fun, but nobody owes anybody anything.

That's interesting because I believe that it is the people who believe that they can be snotty in the logs "telling it as they see it" are the ones that have a sense of entitlement and. therefore, need an attitude adjustment. It certainly isn't the people who are grateful that others give back to the game by hiding caches.

If you have anything negative to say any productive comments for improvement of the cache, message the cache owner through the system and leave it out of the comment. If they'll change it, they'll change it. If they aren't going to change it, it won't make a difference how you contacted them. At least this way your comment/find/smilie stays on the page, eh?

There is a difference between 'productive' and 'snarky'.

The microspew is another topic altogether, but in an urban area it's the alternative to running out of caches.

Personally, I think running out of caches is better than having an area get infected by the film canister virus. In accordance with my, (incredibly biased), aesthetics, quality trumps quantity every time. Note: This is not a call to ban film canisters.

Obviously, those cachers who enjoy these micros would disagree with you. Luckily, you can filter them out of your PQs. That way, you get your preferred caching environment and so do they.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

 

Why did you think I was arguing with you?!

 

- Elle

[+Mudfrog]

The microspew is another topic altogether, but in an urban area it's the alternative to running out of caches.

Personally, I think running out of caches is better than having an area get infected by the film canister virus. In accordance with my, (incredibly biased), aesthetics, quality trumps quantity every time. Note: This is not a call to ban film canisters.

 

I too would rather see more caches put out with a little thought put into them. A good location, a unique container and/or out of the ordinary hide. But that is only my taste and i know for a fact that there are others who like finding almost anything and everything put out. Not sure if they just simply like smilies or what but it's not hurting me and it's not something i need to question. Guardrails, lightpoles (one of my friend's favorites), and piles of sticks by trees are all fun for these cachers and it's not my place to criticize their likings. We need to realize that others may probably like caches that we don't care for and this is why i don't feel the need to say anything negative in most of my logs.

 

That being said, i don't have a problem with anyone posting their thoughts about a cache either. Unless it contains a spoiler, offensive words, or something really off the deep end,, i would let the log stand if it was on one of my caches.

[+sbell111]

Why did you think I was arguing with you?!

 

- Elle

Why do you think that I think you were arguing with me?

 

-Steve

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Why did you think I was arguing with you?!

 

- Elle

Why do you think that I think you were arguing with me?

 

-Steve

 

Not sure since I said in the start of my comment that I wasn't, but then you went right on presuming what I meant (and being wrong) and arguing (and being wrong) so hey... I had to ask.

 

- Elle

[+sbell111]

Why did you think I was arguing with you?!

 

- Elle

Why do you think that I think you were arguing with me?

 

-Steve

Not sure since I said in the start of my comment that I wasn't, but then you went right on presuming what I meant (and being wrong) and arguing (and being wrong) so hey... I had to ask.

 

- Elle

Now I'm really lost.

 

I made a post.

You commented on my post.

I commented on your post.

That's kind of how a forum works.

 

I never argued with you. I merely disagreed with you.

Edited September 2, 2008 by sbell111

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

I made a post.

You commented on my post.

 

No, I didn't. That's where you're wrong. I said my comment wasn't in response to you, it was just on the general topic of "gifts". You were quoted for the sake of setting context to my opinion on the whole ridiculous "gifts" idea.

 

My confusion was how you missed where I prefaced my comment, in the futile hopes of dissuading your argumentative tendencies, by saying I wasn't responding to your comment. Not only did you miss that statement, you proceeded to presume my point, which took some mighty bastardisation and reinterpretation of the words actually being used. You were wrong in doing this.

 

I think if you read what I wrote in a way that includes all the words that are there, you'll realise I was just sharing my own thoughts on the subject, not joining in the argument you had going with someone else.

 

- Elle

[+fizzymagic]

I made a post.

You commented on my post.

 

No, I didn't.

 

...

 

My confusion was how you missed where I prefaced my comment, in the futile hopes of dissuading your argumentative tendencies, by saying I wasn't responding to your comment.

My experience with those who want to argue rather than enlighten is that the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. Sometimes with a short post to that effect, but more often by simply not responding. It's hard and I have occasionally fallen into the temptation to respond, but since they are not interested in productive discussion, it has never paid off.

 

We all know the group here that constantly engages in nonproductive argumentation. Nobody takes their posts seriously, so don't worry. Your points were all well-taken by everyone else.

Edited September 2, 2008 by fizzymagic

[+Moose Mob]

*****************************************************

Please take off topic personal discussions to private messages.

*****************************************************

 

Thank you.

[+sbell111]

I made a post.

You commented on my post.

No, I didn't. That's where you're wrong. I said my comment wasn't in response to you, it was just on the general topic of "gifts". You were quoted for the sake of setting context to my opinion on the whole ridiculous "gifts" idea.

Whatever. You made a post to which I commented. That's not an argument. That's how forums work.

My confusion was how you missed where I prefaced my comment, in the futile hopes of dissuading your argumentative tendencies, by saying I wasn't responding to your comment. Not only did you miss that statement, you proceeded to presume my point, which took some mighty bastardisation and reinterpretation of the words actually being used. You were wrong in doing this.

 

I think if you read what I wrote in a way that includes all the words that are there, you'll realise I was just sharing my own thoughts on the subject, not joining in the argument you had going with someone else.

 

- Elle

Good grief.

 

Please read the last several posts and identify the person who is arguing rather than discussing the topic. (I'll give you a hint. It's you.)

 

Edited to add that I had begun to type my response prior to Moose Mob's post. Mea culpa.

Edited September 2, 2008 by sbell111

[+tozainamboku]

I made a post.

You commented on my post.

No, I didn't. That's where you're wrong. I said my comment wasn't in response to you, it was just on the general topic of "gifts". You were quoted for the sake of setting context to my opinion on the whole ridiculous "gifts" idea.

Whatever. You made a post to which I commented. That's not an argument. That's how forums work.

My confusion was how you missed where I prefaced my comment, in the futile hopes of dissuading your argumentative tendencies, by saying I wasn't responding to your comment. Not only did you miss that statement, you proceeded to presume my point, which took some mighty bastardisation and reinterpretation of the words actually being used. You were wrong in doing this.

 

I think if you read what I wrote in a way that includes all the words that are there, you'll realise I was just sharing my own thoughts on the subject, not joining in the argument you had going with someone else.

 

- Elle

Good grief.

 

Please read the last several posts and identify the person who is arguing rather than discussing the topic. (I'll give you a hint. It's you.)

 

Edited to add that I had begun to type my response prior to Moose Mob's post. Mea culpa.

The problem is that you are using the wrong analogies. Placing a cache has nothing to do with giving your wife an anniversary gift or checking a hockey player against the wall so that he breaks a tooth. Placing a cache is lot like sharing ice cream. If someone wanted to share a flavor that I don't like, I'd probably decline or a least make a funny face as I tried to swallow it. But the polite thing would be to take a taste and say "Thank You".

[+ventura_kids]

um....I forget....What was the subject of this thread?

[Mushtang]

As for the "every hide is a gift" argument that somebody made: Gifts can suck, too, you know. Just because it is a gift doesn't mean we have to like it and say nothing. Try giving your wife a pair of cleaning gloves and a scrub-brush for your anniversary, and you'll see what I mean!

Perhaps, but only because you know what your wife doesn't want, and wouldn't enjoy, and you gave it to her anyway. In your analogy there's a cache being placed that nobody likes and everyone hates. Every cache I've ever seen has been found quite a lot, and the ones that you might think suck are enjoyed by hundreds of cachers before too long.

 

What if your wife enjoyed jewelry for special occasions, and you bought her a bracelet you thought she might like because it's very popular among women these days. She might hate it, or think it sucks, but if she told you it sucked you'd be upset about her response. If you gave her a scrub brush you'd expect such a result.

 

People that place caches that you think suck are placing them for the people that will actually enjoy them, like every other hider does. Do you know of someone that places caches that they hope will bring zero joy to anyone?

 

If someone hides a cache for folks to enjoy, it's just not in my nature to tell them I think it sucks. If I don't like it I'll ignore it and move on.

[+meralgia]

The fact that we have to be only rosy, bright, cheery and thankful in our logs. If we post an honest comment, the logs tend to get deleted.

[+sbell111]

The fact that we have to be only rosy, bright, cheery and thankful in our logs. If we post an honest comment, the logs tend to get deleted.

I don't believe that anyone has to be dishonest in a log. They just shouldn't be snarky.

 

Personally, I've never posted anything that was not honest in a log. Heck, I even posed the truth to a liars cache. I spun it in such a way to not give the cache away, but it was the truth. If there is a problem with the cache, I describe the problem. This 'truthfulness' doesn't get my logs deleted. (A misunderstanding did once, but eventually we both realized that we were adults playing a kids game instead of the other way around and all was medned.)

 

If a cache doesn't make my bowtie spin, however, I don't mention it since that is an issue that is about me, not the cache.

Edited September 2, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

A few weeks ago, my wife and I bought a couple of dozen cheapo 'olympic' hats from a street vendor in Beijing. They were low quality knock-offs, but they only cost a buck or two a piece and she wanted to be able to bring back trinkets for people.

 

One of the people to which she gave a hat was a local priest. He had asked her about the trip and she was describing it. While they chatted, she reached into her bag and retrieved a hat. She gave it to him and this was his response: "It's kind of cheaply made." She came home hurt and peaved.

 

She gave him a present. He could certainly have thanked her for thinking about him, even if he chunked it in a trash can as soon as she went away. Instead, he chose to 'tell it like he sees it' and hurt her feelings.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

The problem is that you are using the wrong analogies. Placing a cache has nothing to do with giving your wife an anniversary gift or checking a hockey player against the wall so that he breaks a tooth. Placing a cache is lot like sharing ice cream. If someone wanted to share a flavor that I don't like, I'd probably decline or a least make a funny face as I tried to swallow it. But the polite thing would be to take a taste and say "Thank You".

 

Hey! That analogy doesn't work because geocaching doesn't involve dairy!!!

 

I think the problem comes in when anyone tries to claim that there's a gift involved here at all. My analogies were meant to reflect how ridiculous it is to call actions of an activity "a gift". Now, if someone gives me a GPS, that's a gift!

 

- Elle

[Clan Riffster]

Perhaps it's more to do with the attitude of the hider? I hide caches similar to the type I enjoy. Those which usually generate more than one sentence logs. I consider my caches to be a gift to the community. The work that went into them was done for you, collectively. It gives me tremendous satisfaction to present my gifts to the community, and to get the feedback so common with quality hides. If you feel that's ridiculous, I'm OK with that, as your opinion is every bit as valid as anyone else's.

 

(Note: If all you hide are film canisters in fast food joint parking lots, you may not understand this reference. That's OK)

 

I have had a few logs on my caches which did not sing their praises, but these were all, without exception, from folks who neglected to pay attention to the cache description and/or attributes. I figure that, by not reading the cache page, they are playing the game the way they wish, and their comments actually amuse me. I wouldn't even consider deleting them, as they are both legitimate, and part of the cache's history.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Clan Riffster

[+sbell111]

Perhaps it's more to do with the attitude of the hider? I hide caches similar to the type I enjoy. Those which usually generate more than one sentence logs. I consider my caches to be a gift to the community. The work that went into them was done for you, collectively. It gives me tremendous satisfaction to present my gifts to the community, and to get the feedback so common with quality hides. If you feel that's ridiculous, I'm OK with that, as your opinion is every bit as valid as anyone else's.

 

(Note: If all you hide are film canisters in fast food joint parking lots, you may not understand this reference. That's OK)

I bet that nearly every cache owner would agree with your first paragraph, even the owners of the caches that you choose to criticize.

[+WebChimp]

Thoughts anyone?

 

Cache owners can maintain their listing any way they wish, and that includes deleting logs.

 

Here are a couple of rules of thumb that will make your logging experiences better:

 

1. If you like a cache, the more your write, the better. Use pleasing words in your log.

2. If you dislike a cache, the less you write, the better. Avoid unpleasant words in your log.

3. If a cache owner deletes your log, you have several options.

... a. Ignore the whole thing, and move on.

... b. Rewrite the log, being consistent with 2.

... c. Drop the CO an email, an ask what would let your log stay on the listing.

... d. Get into a conflict with the CO, and take the conflict to the national forums.

 

If your log is deleted:

3a is the option that requires the least followup and the least effort on everyone's part.

3b may yield a good result. If not, consider using option 3a.

3c may yield a good result. It may result in resolved misunderstandings. If not, consider option 3a.

3d will require the most followup. It can be messy, it just about guarantees that you'll eventually have to go to option 3a.

 

One other rule of thumb that is good to remember:

 

It's just geocaching. Don't take it more seriously than is healthy.

 

Happy trails....................

[+Bad_CRC]

so who burned up the cache?

 

[Clan Riffster]

I bet that nearly every cache owner would agree with your first paragraph, even the owners of the caches that you choose to criticize.

Just for the record, I don't think I've ever criticized a single, specific cache. I prefer generalized snarkiness.

[+runewell]

Cache finders can maintain their posts in any way they wish, and that includes replacing deleted logs.

 

Here are a couple of rules of thumb that will make your deleted log experiences better:

 

1. If you like a cache, use pleasing words to say so.

2. If you dislike a cache, you may as well let the world know that too.

3. If a cache owner deletes your log, you have several options.

... a. Ignore the whole thing, and move on. (Boring)

... b. Rewrite the log, being consistent with 2.

4. If a cache owner deletes your log again, you have several other options.

... a. Ignore the whole thing, and move on. (Boring)

... b. Rewrite the log.

... c. Rewrite the log and include an additional statement about how the owner continually deletes your posts and that you are devoted to replacing them.

... d. © + Create a forum topic devoted to how annoying it is when an owner deletes your posts.

5. If you follow course 4. (d), additional options will ensue

... a. Annoy other posters who think only their perspective of posting nice comments is the only option.

... b. Annoy other posters who claim you are spewing negative energy in the universe.

... c. Chat with other posters supportive of your view.

... d. Discuss the issue with people who can see both sides of the argument.

... e. Add a subtopic about microspew to bring others into the discussion.

 

 

One other rule of thumb that is good to remember:

 

No rules of thumb allowed.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Cache finders can maintain their posts in any way they wish, and that includes replacing deleted logs.

 

Here are a couple of rules of thumb that will make your deleted log experiences better:

 

1. If you like a cache, use pleasing words to say so.

2. If you dislike a cache, you may as well let the world know that too.

3. If a cache owner deletes your log, you have several options.

... a. Ignore the whole thing, and move on. (Boring)

... b. Rewrite the log, being consistent with 2.

4. If a cache owner deletes your log again, you have several other options.

... a. Ignore the whole thing, and move on. (Boring)

... b. Rewrite the log.

... c. Rewrite the log and include an additional statement about how the owner continually deletes your posts and that you are devoted to replacing them.

... d. © + Create a forum topic devoted to how annoying it is when an owner deletes your posts.

5. If you follow course 4. (d), additional options will ensue

... a. Annoy other posters who think only their perspective of posting nice comments is the only option.

... b. Annoy other posters who claim you are spewing negative energy in the universe.

... c. Chat with other posters supportive of your view.

... d. Discuss the issue with people who can see both sides of the argument.

... e. Add a subtopic about microspew to bring others into the discussion.

 

 

One other rule of thumb that is good to remember:

 

No rules of thumb allowed.

 

You're really not getting it, are you?

 

- Elle

[+KBI]

My experience with those who want to argue rather than enlighten is that the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. Sometimes with a short post to that effect .........

Meh.

 

The rest of this post didn't seem worth reading.

[+runewell]

You're really not getting it, are you?

 

- Elle

 

Oh I'm getting it alright. What is becoming clearer to me is that very few other people are getting it.

[+thedeadpirate]

GBSR