Inappropriate Hide

[+wapahani]

 

What you need to do now after contacting the owner of the cache is to ether email the reviewer or post a need to be archived log.

 

kf4oox - Paul

 

Harsh action considering the person may have ignored the postings and entered at the wrong location. Turned down a wrong road, or any list of possibilities. To archive it because one person had an encounter?

And I am normally the first person that would pull it, but not if I was the owner and knew the situation of the land.

[+Kit Fox]

 

What you need to do now after contacting the owner of the cache is to ether email the reviewer or post a need to be archived log.

 

kf4oox - Paul

 

Harsh action considering the person may have ignored the postings and entered at the wrong location. Turned down a wrong road, or any list of possibilities. To archive it because one person had an encounter?

And I am normally the first person that would pull it, but not if I was the owner and knew the situation of the land.

 

Not harsh at all.

 

I doubt a different road or entering from a different direction, would have made a difference. If he came it from a different direction, he could have avoided the gate, but he would have still been on Rock Quarry property.

 

When searching yesterday, I was confronted by two men in a pickup truck that seemed intent on intimidating me and having me leave an area. I discovered later the cache is on the property of a rock quarry. I contacted the cache owner. Her reply was that she has never been confronted while at the cache so she's leaving it in place. There aren't any No Trespassing signs but there is a large steel gate and piles of rock around the gate. It's easy to walk around the gate.

My dilemma is I don't want to be a pain in the rear. But I do think it's irresponsible to send people out looking for something when they might be confronted by these two thugs.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

Edited July 21, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

...These were employees of the rock quarry, the property on which the cache is placed. Within two minutes of me being there, they sped up in a company pickup truck, stopped right in front of me and asked if they "could help me." I said no. I told them I was looking for some trails that a friend told me were in the area. I was cordial to the driver who did all the talking. The passenger was talking on his cellphone and I heard him giving the person on the other end a description of me. I'm assuming it was their security person or maybe a supervisor. The driver told me that I couldn't be there. I told him I didn't see any no trespassing signs and he told me that didn't matter and that I needed to leave. Besides being vague in explaining why I was on the property, I was very cooperative. In my opinion, the guys in the truck were being intimidating with their words and their attitudes. That's the vibe I was getting...

 

Better information leads to better opinions.

First. You should have flat out said "I'm looking for a cache". There is no reason to hide that they are there. If the owner has adequate permission all will be ok. If the owner doesn't you have put the wheels in motion that will either have the owner obtain it, or pull the cache. Since all owners have said they have adequate permission in order to list the cache there is never a reason to hide (from owners representatives) that there is a cache.

 

Second. "Can I help you" is universal code for finding out why you are where you were not exptected to be. My standard reply is "Yes, you can..." then I tell them exactly how they can help me. It's not an expected answer and it normally breaks the ice so they will tell me their real concern. Normally I find they have had problems with vandalism recently and they are being a little more vigulant. This is in my job and no so much caching.

 

Third. They were doing their job. While being treated somewhat abruptly or even rudly can be a shock, it's what they need to do to do the job at hand. By being nice, friendly, cordial, and honest (see #1) you can normally move them down a notch from the adrenaline they are pumping themselves from having to confront someone. Nobody likes confontation, not even the ones who are paid to do it. There is an art to the encounter that's learned over time. Most folks don't know the art and have to work around the adrenalin.

 

Fourth. As far as the cache. You put the encounter in your log. You email the owner the apparent lack of knowlwedge of the property owners reps as to the cache itself. Then you are done. You don't post an SBA because you don't have enough inromation to make that call. If you want to complete an invenstigation so you have real and actual information to go forth on...that's your call.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

 

What you need to do now after contacting the owner of the cache is to ether email the reviewer or post a need to be archived log.

 

kf4oox - Paul

 

Harsh action considering the person may have ignored the postings and entered at the wrong location. Turned down a wrong road, or any list of possibilities. To archive it because one person had an encounter?

And I am normally the first person that would pull it, but not if I was the owner and knew the situation of the land.

 

Not harsh at all....

 

Yes, harsh. You only have an indication there may be a problem. Even with adequate permission caching is so trivial that the owner would not likely brief each and every employee that the cache is there and that folks can seek it. If the owner was in the truck and they said "get rid of this dadgum cache right now!, then I'd pull the cache, and email the owner to archive the cache and give them a chacne to pick it up. If they refused then and only then would I post an SBA.

 

The SBA is for when this site needs to step in and do the job of the cache owner. It's not meant to replace the cache owner.

[+wapahani]

 

What you need to do now after contacting the owner of the cache is to ether email the reviewer or post a need to be archived log.

 

kf4oox - Paul

 

Harsh action considering the person may have ignored the postings and entered at the wrong location. Turned down a wrong road, or any list of possibilities. To archive it because one person had an encounter?

And I am normally the first person that would pull it, but not if I was the owner and knew the situation of the land.

 

Not harsh at all.

 

I doubt a different road or entering from a different direction, would have made a difference. If he came it from a different direction, he could have avoided the gate, but he would have still been on Rock Quarry property.

 

When searching yesterday, I was confronted by two men in a pickup truck that seemed intent on intimidating me and having me leave an area. I discovered later the cache is on the property of a rock quarry. I contacted the cache owner. Her reply was that she has never been confronted while at the cache so she's leaving it in place. There aren't any No Trespassing signs but there is a large steel gate and piles of rock around the gate. It's easy to walk around the gate.

My dilemma is I don't want to be a pain in the rear. But I do think it's irresponsible to send people out looking for something when they might be confronted by these two thugs.

 

What I meant was, is the cache really on Quarry property? If it wasn't and the poster made the mistake of coming at it from the wrong location.

 

My example is a location that has a river, the cache is east of the river, along a road, on the other side of the river is a water treatment plant, and another road. If you read the logs, many people have posted notes and DNF's claiming they couldn't get to the cache because it was on water treatment facility property. That isn't the case, the GPS they used had to be off badly, or they used a "drive to navigation" that was way off.

At any rate, the location of the cache is in a park on the opposite side of the river on a different road. Many people have been run off looking for the cache because they didn't take the time to read the cache page and think! You shouldn't even be near the water treatment plant in the first place.

 

That was my point. We don't know everything and calling in the reviewer on this would be HARSH action especially if they pulled the cache because said hunter didn't think before they went!

[+chuckwagon101]

If they were carrying or playing banjo's I'd be afraid and run.

 

.

 

LOL! LOL! LOL!

 

Now that RIGHT THERE is FUNNY!!! LOL! LOL!

[CoyoteRed]

The SBA is for when this site needs to step in and do the job of the cache owner. It's not meant to replace the cache owner.

Just like in a thread about bogus logs and monitoring other folks' caches, I'm probably not going to make it my hobby to monitor the viability of certain caches. Some I do, yes, but in general, no.

 

I'd probably log an SBA and explain the situation in the log. Then the reviewers can handle it. Emailing the owner directly usually gets a "butt out"-type of response. This I know from experience.

 

Depending on the owner an alternative would be email the reviewer to keep your name out of the ordeal that might follow. Again, experience.

[+Parboy]

[+sbell111]

... The SBA is for when this site needs to step in and do the job of the cache owner. It's not meant to replace the cache owner.

This may be one of the best statements that I've ever read in these forums.

[+ReadyOrNot]

So email the cache owner and ask if they have permission to place the cache on the property (judging by the guys in the truck, I would guess no)... If the cache owner continues to not see the lack of permission to place on private property as a non-issue, then request the cache be archived.

 

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

 

You have every right to feel concerned.. Personally, I wouldn't focus my frustration on the employees of the private business, but on the cache owner who *MAY* have placed the cache there without permission. find out for sure...

 

(or just move on)

[+infiniteMPG]

Don't think it's madatory to post no tresspassing signs where you're not supposed to tresspass, don't have them at my house but I'd sure approach someone aggressively marching thru my back yard. Sounds like the cache shouldn't be there and a quick note to the owner is a good first step. If no response then a note in the log but if they're not willing to discuss it, chances are they'll just delete your note. Then a note to the reviewer and let the cache owner make their case with them (not into being the geo-police so I'm not into posting "needs to be archived" as I think I'd rather let a reviewer decide that except in cases where the land has been bulldozed or something like that). Other then that, everyone caches at their own risk so you did your part (which would be more then many others would do) to protect others from an obvious hazard or discrepancy but it's still up to the individual cacher to assess the risks against the rewards.

 

Have a cache on a neat little side road, a little tough to find the way but still basically a PAG, it's near the interstate and the listing states you can not access it from the interstate. Had a find logged recently where someone didn't read the log, pulled off the interstate, crossed a couple fences, disturbed some cows and went a lot of places they should not of gone to get it. Interesting and funny log and I did my part with the warning but we can't control how someone chooses to get there. This game is pretty much all individuals doing their own things.

 

As far as flaming on people in posts, that often happens when people start discussing other people rather then the topics, and often brought about from frustration in not having a quick enough snappy comeback... hehehe

 

Yeah, we have plenty of rocks in da Sunshine State, just most of them feel outta the caked up salt crud on the bottom of the snowbird's Caddies....

[+Tresco]

Well, I was not there so I'm not going to pop off about a situation I don't know about. So far, the locals I've encountered were friendly enough. I make it a point to be nice and am honest about what I'm doing there.

[+Moose Mob]

... The SBA is for when this site needs to step in and do the job of the cache owner. It's not meant to replace the cache owner.

This may be one of the best statements that I've ever read in these forums.

Actually, the SBA log is as much for the cache owner as it is for the local reviewer. Odds are that the cache owner is not paying very much attention if the cache goes this far.

[+bflentje]

Wow -- I had a few minutes to kill and after reading this thread I remember why I don't do this very often.

 

Oops, quoted wrong post.

Edited July 22, 2008 by bflentje

[+wesleykey]

I told them I was looking for some trails that a friend told me were in the area. ......................

 

I told him I didn't see any no trespassing signs and he told me that didn't matter and that I needed to leave. Besides being vague in explaining why I was on the property, I was very cooperative. .................

 

 

First, the cache may have been placed with permission. If you had told the truth ( "I'm looking for the geocache." ) rather than lying you might have been fine. Liars are not "cooperative".

[+sbell111]

Don't think it's madatory to post no tresspassing signs where you're not supposed to tresspass, don't have them at my house but I'd sure approach someone aggressively marching thru my back yard. ...

That all depends on where you live. In some locales, if the area isn't posted the person isn't trespassing until he is asked to leave and fails to do so.