FTF "Rights"?

[+private bones]

Just curious

 

Seems like most FTF cachers will take a specified FTF gift (as intended) and may or may not leave swag. That's fine with me if I mention in the description that there is a specified gift for FTF.

 

However, if I don't specify a FTF gift, most cachers seem to either TNSL or do a regular swag trade.

 

Yesterday I had a FTF cacher that logged that they took a nice swag item and left nothing. This cache was pretty easy and I did not leave a FTF gift. So, would taking a nice swag item and leaving nothing be considered a "right" of FTF?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

pb

[+TexasGringo]

Unless you specify something specific...then everything is free game....FTF or not.

 

Some caches specify that if you take a TB or Geocoin...then you leave a TB or Geocoin there.

[+EraSeek]

You take something, you leave something UNLESS:

1. it is specified as a gift

2. If it is a travel bug or geocoin. These are seperate game items that have seperate goals from the cache they are in. They are not owned by the cache owners, and thus they have no say over them. They are meant to travel period! They are not trade items. You may trade bug for bug but it is not required. Moving them toward their goal in a timely manner is the only requirement.

[+Sagefox]

I have never thought that a declared FTF prize was to be taken by the FTF'er with nothing left in its place. I see the FTF prize is a trade item not a gift.

[+Bad_CRC]

I have never thought that a declared FTF prize was to be taken by the FTF'er with nothing left in its place. I see the FTF prize is a trade item not a gift.

 

I see it as the opposite, and I've treated it that way.

 

I've left what I hope were decent FTF prizes for my caches, intending them to be taken without trade by the first finder, and in my one FTF, the hider archerdragoon was nice enough to leave 2 unactivated TB tags for my gf and I. I don't recall if we traded for them or took them outright, but I recall the note was pretty specific that they were gifts.

 

Personally, I think the second to find should get the gift as a consolation prize, since they don't get the bragging rights of FTF.

[+Snoogans]

Personally, I think the second to find should get the gift as a consolation prize, since they don't get the bragging rights of FTF.

 

Whether or not there is an FTF prize, this is what 2nd place gets when I get there first.

[+private bones]

Personally, I think the second to find should get the gift as a consolation prize, since they don't get the bragging rights of FTF.

 

Whether or not there is an FTF prize, this is what 2nd place gets when I get there first.

 

[+kwikstix]

Personally, I think the second to find should get the gift as a consolation prize, since they don't get the bragging rights of FTF.

 

Whether or not there is an FTF prize, this is what 2nd place gets when I get there first.

 

Those are GREAT! I would love to get my hands on some of them (we have a couple active FTF hounds in this area - myself included!) Where'd you have them made??

 

As for the topic, I agree with Bad CRC: If an item is specified as a FTF Gift, as the FTF, I take the gift, without trading anything in return. That's the definition of a "gift". If I take anything else from the cache, I will trade up if possible, or even at a minimum.

 

What the OP mentioned is not acceptable practice, IMHO. Whether FTF or not, I wouldn't look kindly on another geocacher "taking" items without trade. As for trackables, I've set rules for myself:

• If no goal is included with the physical trackable, I'll take it without leaving anything
  
• If there is a stated goal with the physical trackable AND I can help it accomplish its goal, I'll take it without leaving anything
  
• If there is a stated goal with the physical trackable AND I CANNOT help it accomplish its goal, I'll discover it, but leave it in the cache
  
• If there are more than two trackables in a cache, I will leave at least one or two trackables regardless of the above rules.
  

I have one cache that has become somewhat of a bug motel (even though I didn't specify it as such), and I would be a bit miffed if a single cacher came through an wiped out all the bugs. Caches with TBs and especially GCs are slightly more attractive to me, as I imagine they are for other geocachers.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

It has always been my understanding -- and it has always been our philosophy when hiding new caches in which we have placed an FTF prize -- that an FTF prize, unless specified otherwise, is just that, a prize for the FTF finder, and not a normal trade item, and thus no trade is expected or warranted. In other words, even when they involve cash prizes of well over a hundred dollars, they are a gift to the FTF finder; we expect nothing to be left in return.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Just curious

 

Seems like most FTF cachers will take a specified FTF gift (as intended) and may or may not leave swag. That's fine with me if I mention in the description that there is a specified gift for FTF.

 

However, if I don't specify a FTF gift, most cachers seem to either TNSL or do a regular swag trade.

 

Yesterday I had a FTF cacher that logged that they took a nice swag item and left nothing. This cache was pretty easy and I did not leave a FTF gift. So, would taking a nice swag item and leaving nothing be considered a "right" of FTF?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

pb

Be careful with words like "most". Unless you have experience with "most" cachers you can't know what they do... you can only know what your personal and limited experience with FTF cachers is!

 

My limited experience with FTF chasers, those ten or so who regularly compete for FTFs in my area, is that they rarely take the FTF prize but leave it for the next finder... that virgin log sheet is what they're after!

 

If they do take it they usually leave a nice trade.

[+Renegade Knight]

You take something, you leave something UNLESS:

1. it is specified as a gift

2. If it is a travel bug or geocoin. These are seperate game items that have seperate goals from the cache they are in. They are not owned by the cache owners, and thus they have no say over them. They are meant to travel period! They are not trade items. You may trade bug for bug but it is not required. Moving them toward their goal in a timely manner is the only requirement.

There you go.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Just curious

 

Seems like most FTF cachers will take a specified FTF gift (as intended) and may or may not leave swag. That's fine with me if I mention in the description that there is a specified gift for FTF.

 

However, if I don't specify a FTF gift, most cachers seem to either TNSL or do a regular swag trade.

 

Yesterday I had a FTF cacher that logged that they took a nice swag item and left nothing. This cache was pretty easy and I did not leave a FTF gift. So, would taking a nice swag item and leaving nothing be considered a "right" of FTF?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

pb

Be careful with words like "most". Unless you have experience with "most" cachers you can't know what they do... you can only know what your personal and limited experience with FTF cachers is!

 

My limited experience with FTF chasers, those ten or so who regularly compete for FTFs in my area, is that they rarely take the FTF prize but leave it for the next finder... that virgin log sheet is what they're after!

 

If they do take it they usually leave a nice trade.

[+StarBrand]

I've always expected each and every cache finder to trade up - or trade even - no matter if they are number 1 or finder number 237.

 

I have only every left 5 FTF prizes in my caches - they were clearly marked as a FTF "gift" and specifically labled as no need to trade. I have also left a few such "gift" items in caches I have found - but again I clearly lableled them.

[+briansnat]

Yesterday I had a FTF cacher that logged that they took a nice swag item and left nothing. This cache was pretty easy and I did not leave a FTF gift. So, would taking a nice swag item and leaving nothing be considered a "right" of FTF?

 

Designated FTF gifts are just that, a gift. I would say that no trade is required.

 

If however there is no designated FTF gift then the trade items in the cache are just that, trade items. Etiquette says trades should be somewhat even, but not everybody give a clam's patootie about etiquette and courtesy. I guess you encountered one of those people.

 

There are many rude and thoughtless people in the world and some of them happen to be geocachers. The best thing to do is realize that you're going to run into one of them every now and move on. They aren't worth a moment's thought or angst.

[+Mudfrog]

You take something, you leave something UNLESS:

1. it is specified as a gift

2. If it is a travel bug or geocoin. These are seperate game items that have seperate goals from the cache they are in. They are not owned by the cache owners, and thus they have no say over them. They are meant to travel period! They are not trade items. You may trade bug for bug but it is not required. Moving them toward their goal in a timely manner is the only requirement.

There you go.

Accurate and to the point!

[+bettsbugs]

Duplicate post. Sorry.

Edited January 2, 2008 by bettsbugs

[+bettsbugs]

We have a few FTFs to our name, but not many. To me a prize is something that has been earned in some fashion and is freely given with not expectations of 'payment' of any kind. Otherwise it really isn't a prize. Imagine having to pay for that trophy you won in highschool in order to get it?

 

And to be honest, I never thought about having to 'trade' for a FTF prize. The one FTF I am thinking about we took the FTF prize and then actually traded for some of the swag in the cache as well.

 

I also treat TBs and coins completely seperate from swag trades. If I can help the TB or coin towards it's goal, I grab it whether or not I have a traveler to trade it for. It seems to me that helping the traveler meet it's goals takes precedence over having to 'trade' travelers unless the cache owner has specified otherwise.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

It seems to me that helping the traveler meet it's goals takes precedence over having to 'trade' travelers unless the cache owner has specified otherwise.

Travelers, be they TB or geocoin, were made to move unimpeded.

 

I am a huge fan of 'cache owner's rights' and almost always acknowledge the cache owner's control over his cache, its content and any logs, but do not believe they have any right to restrict or limit travelers in their caches, therefore I ignore all requests to trade for travelers and take the ones I can help.

[+Confucius' Cat]

If an item is specifically designated as a FTF prize, no trade required. If not, trade responsibly. End of Story.

[+CSpenceFLY]

Yesterday I had a FTF cacher that logged that they took a nice swag item and left nothing. This cache was pretty easy and I did not leave a FTF gift. So, would taking a nice swag item and leaving nothing be considered a "right" of FTF?

 

Designated FTF gifts are just that, a gift. I would say that no trade is required.

 

If however there is no designated FTF gift then the trade items in the cache are just that, trade items. Etiquette says trades should be somewhat even, but not everybody give a clam's patootie about etiquette and courtesy. I guess you encountered one of those people.

 

There are many rude and thoughtless people in the world and some of them happen to be geocachers. The best thing to do is realize that you're going to run into one of them every now and move on. They aren't worth a moment's thought or angst.

 

That is the understatement of the year and the year is young. If that were not the case we would not have a monopoly on McJunk

[+private bones]

Be careful with words like "most". Unless you have experience with "most" cachers you can't know what they do... you can only know what your personal and limited experience with FTF cachers is!

 

Oops...Let me modify that to say:

most cachers I have dealt with in my personal and limited experience seem to either TNSL or do a regular swag trade.

[+private bones]

We have a few FTFs to our name, but not many. To me a prize is something that has been earned in some fashion and is freely given with not expectations of 'payment' of any kind. Otherwise it really isn't a prize. Imagine having to pay for that trophy you won in highschool in order to get it?

 

And to be honest, I never thought about having to 'trade' for a FTF prize. The one FTF I am thinking about we took the FTF prize and then actually traded for some of the swag in the cache as well.

 

I also treat TBs and coins completely seperate from swag trades. If I can help the TB or coin towards it's goal, I grab it whether or not I have a traveler to trade it for. It seems to me that helping the traveler meet it's goals takes precedence over having to 'trade' travelers unless the cache owner has specified otherwise.

 

I think you may have misunderstood the question. I agree, as stated in the original post, that a FTF prize is placed without any expectation of a trade. It is my gift to the FTF, or to the STF if FTF passes on the gift. What I experienced was a FTF cacher who took a new swag item, left nothing,, and logged it as such. Although I often leave FTF gifts on more difficult caches, in this case I did not. So, I wondered if perhaps this was acceptable etiquette? But, it seems from reading the responses that if that cacher was following etiquette, it should have been a trade.

 

Thanks to all for your responses.

[+CSpenceFLY]

Not to be negative but it really does not matter and there is nothing you can do one way or the other. All caches are destin to be filled with junk.

[+ncfinn]

Even if something was called a "gift", I would still leave something in the cache. It would not be an even trade in this case, but trade anyway.

What is the harm in leaving something even if you are not required to do it?

[+Belfrypotters]

It's possible it was their first FTF, and they didn't know what to expect. When we found our first FTF we just assumed there was a FTF gift in every new cache. We debated which item had been intended as FTF prize, since no one item stood out from the others, and we didn't want to hurt the cache owners feelings by not accepting the gift. The finer points of geocaching etiquette take a while to learn.

[+joranda]

A lot of times around here they are micros, so the only prize is the fact that you found it first, which is a prize in itself.

[+bettsbugs]

We have a few FTFs to our name, but not many. To me a prize is something that has been earned in some fashion and is freely given with not expectations of 'payment' of any kind. Otherwise it really isn't a prize. Imagine having to pay for that trophy you won in highschool in order to get it?

 

And to be honest, I never thought about having to 'trade' for a FTF prize. The one FTF I am thinking about we took the FTF prize and then actually traded for some of the swag in the cache as well.

 

I also treat TBs and coins completely seperate from swag trades. If I can help the TB or coin towards it's goal, I grab it whether or not I have a traveler to trade it for. It seems to me that helping the traveler meet it's goals takes precedence over having to 'trade' travelers unless the cache owner has specified otherwise.

 

I think you may have misunderstood the question. I agree, as stated in the original post, that a FTF prize is placed without any expectation of a trade. It is my gift to the FTF, or to the STF if FTF passes on the gift. What I experienced was a FTF cacher who took a new swag item, left nothing,, and logged it as such. Although I often leave FTF gifts on more difficult caches, in this case I did not. So, I wondered if perhaps this was acceptable etiquette? But, it seems from reading the responses that if that cacher was following etiquette, it should have been a trade.

 

Thanks to all for your responses.

 

Apparently I did misunderstand or got sidetracked from other responses. I do not believe it acceptable etiquette to take a FTF 'prize' if one hasn't specifically been provided by the cache owner. Unless it is stated or an obvious thing, it is all just swag and should be traded accordingly.

[+michigansnorkelers]

There have been several FTF prizes that I traded for. These involved such overly generous prizes that I felt guilty not leaving something behind.

 

In one very demanding two day hunt by kayak, the FTF prize was a $30 gift card. I happened to have a smaller gift card with me, which I left as a STF prize for the next finder who seemed to have enjoyed the consolation prize.

[+BlueDeuce]

I leave normal trade items in my cache placements.

 

If you can find something worth keeping without trading for, yeah whatever.

 

Edit: Sorry, just showing my puritan side.

Edited January 5, 2008 by BlueDeuce