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DANGEROUS OBJECTS!


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Isn't this topic about a broadhead found in a cache, not a pissing match regarding electrical safety.? :huh:

 

To the original poster,

 

When I cache with my two and five year old, they wait for me to open the container and inspect the contents. Once i'm certain the items are safe, they can check them out. It's real simple. On a safety note, I don't make it a habit of rummaging around a strange container. I dump all of the contents on the ground, so I can get a good visual.

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...I guess if you called the power company or phone company who are the owners and asked them if they are ok with someone screwing a box which looks electrical with a wire coming out of the bottom and sunk into the ground as ok on their pole marked DANGER, they would probably be more than happy to grant permission? I doubt it.

 

I like the mural idea, provided you can get the owners permission. But then, how would you keep someone from spraying over it? :huh:

 

Most utility pole owners have a blanket rule against anything going on the poles that they don't authorise. That include garage sale signs. Everone ignores it. But the answer will virtually always be no if you ask. That said, a pole on private property for the sole purpose of service to that property is often actually owned by the property owner and not the utility. YMMV.

 

On the second qeustions, you would have to clear coat the art with anti grafitti paint. Most of the time trough Grafitti artists like a blank canvas and they tend to not spray on top of a mural and instead target a nice clean fence or underpass. Again YMMV.

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Most utility pole owners have a blanket rule against anything going on the poles that they don't authorise. That include garage sale signs. Everone ignores it. But the answer will virtually always be no if you ask. That said, a pole on private property for the sole purpose of service to that property is often actually owned by the property owner and not the utility. YMMV.

 

I talked to a Power Systems Engineer today (layman's terms: a power line design guy). He noted first off that most likely no utility (such as his) will allow someone to put ANYTHING on their poles --- so this may break the rules in any case and will likely be knocked off by the Utility next time they chance by the area . . . The ONE exception is if it is in a rural location and the meter box (where the Utility-employed readers find the customer usage readings) is on the edge of a property and on one of the wooden distribution poles (aka erroneously as 'telephone' poles). Then the property owner may attach other things to the pole on the other side of the meter box such as junction boxes that redirect power to a barn, a house, a chicken coop, etc. :P Yeah, -I know -boring . . . .

 

'NUFF SAID THERE . . .

 

 

Really like the mural idea . . .

 

Kit Fox, discussions change . . . point taken on the pi**ing match thing :huh: . . . but the topic is Dangerous Objects and this is a DISCUSSION Board . . . ;)

 

(EDIT for language)

Edited by scorpio_dark
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Kit Fox, discussions change . . . point taken on the pissing match thing :D . . . but the topic is Dangerous Objects and this is a DISCUSSION Board . . . :D

 

Take a look at these previous threads.

 

Geocaching Electrical Safety (3 pages)

 

Electrical Boxes as containers

 

Electrical Box Caches (2 pages)

 

Thanks for the info . . . .

 

:D Dang - now THAT is hilarious! We can use the word "pi**ing"? I got slapped from a moderator for less than that :D

 

Point taken, I'm guilty too - - - sorry about that repeat . . .will edit

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Isn't this topic about a broadhead found in a cache, not a pissing match regarding electrical safety.? :surprise:

 

 

:ph34r:

 

No, the topic is entitled "Dangerous Objects." Any cache place near or on or disguised as electrical equipment is a dangerous object.

 

It is simply ridiculous to fool around with such things.

 

Of course, there are the idiots who will do such ridiculous things.

 

That's what they call Darwinism . . .

Edited by BuckeyeInNC
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Are you sure it was a geocacher that placed the object in the cache, and not a hunter or somebody else who just stumbled upon the cache by accident?

 

I am curious as to how often this happens, I've seen it once. One cache I found, a hunter had logged the find in the logbook, but thankfully he left only a musket ball, a fairly harmless object.

I don't how often it happens, but I have seen a number of logs signed by non-geocachers who obviously stumbled upon the cache by accident. In some cases people just sign they log in a friendly way, and sometimes they talk about what they took or left. In a couple of cases I've seen caches destroyed by people who have signed the log book with some pretty ugly stuff.

 

From a cache that I found a couple months ago:

 

Stumbled across an interesting note in the notebook:

 

Dec 9, 2006

"Found it and put it back. Played with the army guys for a little while, then went home. No GPS needed, pretty easy to find. I was deer hunting"

 

Since he didn't log it here, I decided to log his find for him. Deer Hunter: 1 found.

Edited by knowschad
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...

Many people who replied to this also forget that it is against geocaching.com guidelines to even put a hide up like that. Using screws and staples to anchor it to a utility pole is strictly a no no! :(

The guiding principal is to avoid vandalism. You can spray paint coordinates onto the side of the building if the owner is so inclined to allow it. Actually I've been wanting to hide some coords in an art mural for some time...

I guess if you called the power company or phone company who are the owners and asked them if they are ok with someone screwing a box which looks electrical with a wire coming out of the bottom and sunk into the ground as ok on their pole marked DANGER, they would probably be more than happy to grant permission? I doubt it.

 

I like the mural idea, provided you can get the owners permission. But then, how would you keep someone from spraying over it? <_<

 

I probably shouldn't stick my nose in someone elses argument but the picture of the pole with the nice ammo can is most likely a private pole. I own several on my rural property. One of the things that gives it away is that to the left of the cache (ammo can) is a meter box with what looks like a breaker/fuse panel below it and it is obviously disabled since there is no meter inserted in it and there is no blind panel with a lock where the meter goes. It may be that the cacher is the owner of the pole or has the pole owners permission or knows that the pole owner has abandoned the pole as in an abandoned billboard (the timing device that the ammo can is sitting on would indicate a sign or billboard) the fact that the timing device has no cover also may indicate a completely dead circuit. Just my $0.02 worth and now you guys can just continue bashing it out!

Edited by Seasoned Warrior
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...

Many people who replied to this also forget that it is against geocaching.com guidelines to even put a hide up like that. Using screws and staples to anchor it to a utility pole is strictly a no no! <_<

The guiding principal is to avoid vandalism. You can spray paint coordinates onto the side of the building if the owner is so inclined to allow it. Actually I've been wanting to hide some coords in an art mural for some time...

I guess if you called the power company or phone company who are the owners and asked them if they are ok with someone screwing a box which looks electrical with a wire coming out of the bottom and sunk into the ground as ok on their pole marked DANGER, they would probably be more than happy to grant permission? I doubt it.

 

I like the mural idea, provided you can get the owners permission. But then, how would you keep someone from spraying over it? :(

 

I probably shouldn't stick my nose in someone elses argument but the picture of the pole with the nice ammo can is most likely a private pole. I own several on my rural property. One of the things that gives it away is that to the left of the cache (ammo can) is a meter box with what looks like a breaker/fuse panel below it and it is obviously disabled since there is no meter inserted in it and there is no blind panel with a lock where the meter goes. It may be that the cacher is the owner of the pole or has the pole owners permission or knows that the pole owner has abandoned the pole as in an abandoned billboard (the timing device that the ammo can is sitting on would indicate a sign or billboard) the fact that the timing device has no cover also may indicate a completely dead circuit. Just my $0.02 worth and now you guys can just continue bashing it out!

All of the above plus the unterminated triplex tucked behind the meter socket feed conduit do seem to indicate that this is PROBABLY a "dead" electrical installation. Furthermore the VERY OBVIOUS cache placement serves to make fiddling around in the electrical boxes pretty ridiculous in itself. (This is PROVIDED the cache doesn't disappear- in which case there would be a greater likelihood of searchers checking out the "dead" electrical boxes.)

 

From my analysis of this picture, i would see no hazard here.

 

But here's the problem: I, and perhaps the previous poster, am a trained electrician. I have the experience and expertise to evaluate the installation. I ALSO have enough SENSE to leave it alone IN SPITE OF THE APPEARANCE THAT IT IS ABANDONED unless and until I had completely evaluated and tested the installation. I don't mean to be ridiculous here, but sometimes things can be overlooked. If it can be determined that there are absolutely no other feed sources, it would be reasonable to conclude that it is indeed "dead." A competent electrician would probably still not reach into the boxes without first actually TESTING for voltage on the wiring.

 

And of course a TRULY competent electrician wouldn't mess with it unless he was hired to do so.

 

The CARDINAL RULE for electrical equipment is ALWAYS ASSUME IT IS HOT! This is especially true if you are NOT a qualified electrician.

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...

Many people who replied to this also forget that it is against geocaching.com guidelines to even put a hide up like that. Using screws and staples to anchor it to a utility pole is strictly a no no! B)

The guiding principal is to avoid vandalism. You can spray paint coordinates onto the side of the building if the owner is so inclined to allow it. Actually I've been wanting to hide some coords in an art mural for some time...

I guess if you called the power company or phone company who are the owners and asked them if they are ok with someone screwing a box which looks electrical with a wire coming out of the bottom and sunk into the ground as ok on their pole marked DANGER, they would probably be more than happy to grant permission? I doubt it.

 

I like the mural idea, provided you can get the owners permission. But then, how would you keep someone from spraying over it? :laughing:

 

I probably shouldn't stick my nose in someone elses argument but the picture of the pole with the nice ammo can is most likely a private pole. I own several on my rural property. One of the things that gives it away is that to the left of the cache (ammo can) is a meter box with what looks like a breaker/fuse panel below it and it is obviously disabled since there is no meter inserted in it and there is no blind panel with a lock where the meter goes. It may be that the cacher is the owner of the pole or has the pole owners permission or knows that the pole owner has abandoned the pole as in an abandoned billboard (the timing device that the ammo can is sitting on would indicate a sign or billboard) the fact that the timing device has no cover also may indicate a completely dead circuit. Just my $0.02 worth and now you guys can just continue bashing it out!

All of the above plus the unterminated triplex tucked behind the meter socket feed conduit do seem to indicate that this is PROBABLY a "dead" electrical installation. Furthermore the VERY OBVIOUS cache placement serves to make fiddling around in the electrical boxes pretty ridiculous in itself. (This is PROVIDED the cache doesn't disappear- in which case there would be a greater likelihood of searchers checking out the "dead" electrical boxes.)

 

From my analysis of this picture, i would see no hazard here.

 

But here's the problem: I, and perhaps the previous poster, am a trained electrician. I have the experience and expertise to evaluate the installation. I ALSO have enough SENSE to leave it alone IN SPITE OF THE APPEARANCE THAT IT IS ABANDONED unless and until I had completely evaluated and tested the installation. I don't mean to be ridiculous here, but sometimes things can be overlooked. If it can be determined that there are absolutely no other feed sources, it would be reasonable to conclude that it is indeed "dead." A competent electrician would probably still not reach into the boxes without first actually TESTING for voltage on the wiring.

 

And of course a TRULY competent electrician wouldn't mess with it unless he was hired to do so.

 

The CARDINAL RULE for electrical equipment is ALWAYS ASSUME IT IS HOT! This is especially true if you are NOT a qualified electrician.

Many good points, better explained than when I tried B) The box that I was referring to and discussing with the other geocacher was not the one in the picture. The one I was referring to looked like an electrical box, had a wire coming out of it and going into the ground AND was attached to a public utility pole with high voltage signs on it. There was no geocaching markings on it whatsoever. The ammo can above is obviously a cache. And I do believe the topics are related as they have to do with what cachers consider dangerous objects, being that is the title of this thread, whether they are the stuff inside or the cache itself.

 

Regarding the OP's original post though, there are so many other fun things to leave in caches, I just don't see many people having a need for a broadhead, but then again I have been wrong before... B)

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When I started this thread, I didn't realize there would be 69 responses by the time I went back, but am very glad that this topic still resides on the forum! I'm also glad other dangerous items/hides are being discussed as I'm learning new stuff as well. I agree with both sides, not just my own on issues with kids and cache ideas. I also now dump contents out after the incident, and use more common sense as I am still relatively new to the sport. Thank you all for your contributions and thanks to the moderator for letting this topic stay.....I think it's a valid discussion and I look forward to reading future posts on other dangerous items, etc....

Edited by NOBODY IMPORTANT
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I've found and removed matches, a knife, and lots of food items. I find it annoying, but don't think it's anything to get angry about.

 

If I had my way, I'd love to see all those items allowed. it'd be pretty cool to see more pocket knives and fireworks in caches, and matches in remote caches could save a life if someone in a survival situation happened across a cache in the wilderness. I've actually eaten food found in a cache before. (was a temporary 1day event cache filled with chewing gum)

 

:laughing:

 

I understand why they aren't allowed tho. :P

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I have somehow managed to raise 5 kids well past the "curious 3 year old" stage. I recognize that caching is an activity with certain inherent, (and often unforeseen), risks, and govern the behavior of my kids accordingly. I call it proper supervision. We've found scads of caches with items in them that others might feel squeamish about, (bullets, porn, lighters, fireworks, knives, etc), yet, oddly enough, they've survived every encounter without so much as a paper cut.

 

(incidentally, considering the prevalence of MRSA's in the world, I'd guess our kids are at much greater risk from the aforementioned papercut then they would be from a pocket knife) :laughing:

 

If I were to approach a cache that honestly had me thinking my kids might go from there and place themselves in danger looking for McCrap, I would walk away. Really, if you believe your kids might go from that cache and reflexively start pawing through every electrical box in the county when you weren't looking, why would you let them watch you open the container?

 

Because I practice supervision in the field, I think I could hunt for an ammo can stuffed full of rabid zombie lemmings and not be concerned for my kid's safety.

 

On a side note: regarding the electrical box nailed to a pole. Did you report it? You seem to be critical of the hide due to your perception that the hider violated the guidelines. As a conscientious seeker, I would think you also have an obligation to preserve the integrity of the game by reporting blatant guideline violations.

 

Just sayin... :P

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I find this topic interesting at best.

I'm a parent, my wife and 2 kids generally do all our caching together now. Our youngest is 2 now, he isn't allowed to just go diving into a cache. Neither is our daughter who is older.

 

In most cases I am the one that opens the cache, but we never let the kids just jump into them without seeing what is in them first.

Why? Because I know how my 2 year old is and well, I won't allow that to happen!!

 

However to the people that think its just the parents responsibility, while I agree someone, your still wrong.

 

When you become a parent you will see this.

Your comments show your naive nature to it all......or lack of responsibility for what is all around you.

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Hope none try caching in Alaska. While I'm new, I've found that many of the caches up here contain matches, lighters, fishing lures & hooks, pocket knives, etc. Of course such things are considered non-hazardous everyday items in this part of the world, so I'm guessing it is a regional thing. It seems the caches within urban areas don't have such things, but instead have lots of little toys and such. But the wilderness caches, most of which are not very kid-friendly spots to get to in the first place, seem to lean more toward survival items or useful tools and such. For some very remote caches here, I see the cache listing states that the cache was started with knives, survival gear, MRE's, and the like. So a reviewer apparently published the cache knowing that these things were in there.

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Well, if nothing else, I have learned to be more careful! I am still fairly new at this (58 finds in 6 years) and I never considered finding something that could hurt me. An exposed broadhead is just such an item. So I will learn to be more careful. Thanks at least for that!

 

BTW, the "Nomex" is called "Romex". Just a nit. It's the 3 or 4 wire, heavy duty shielded cable that most houses are wired with.

 

Confucius' Cat - "The CARDINAL RULE for electrical equipment is ALWAYS ASSUME IT IS HOT! This is especially true if you are NOT a qualified electrician."

 

That is probably the best advice ever! I am not a qualified electrician, but I was a qualified electronics technician. I learned the same thing, and I am definitely leery of touching anything that even resembles anything that could shock me. I have been shocked by things that were supposedly not connected. Yeah, "Oops...my bad!" That line didn't help stop my arm from throbbing! It seems to me that someone who is NOT familiar with electrical stuff is more likely to be hurt by it.

 

I have learned to respect anything labeled "High Voltage". I have seen jerry-rigs that were worse than an ammo can, that were hot!

 

Are we teaching people, not just kids, to ignore labels?

The next time someone looks for a cache and sees an electrical box, will they open it?

Imagine being the owner of the electrical box and catching someone with it open and poking around! If I catch anyone even close to my electrical box, I will be more than a little concerned.

 

A couple of posters noted that they were not at all familiar or educated in electrical things. That should be a huge clue not to mess with things like that. Someone who doesn't know what you know may be hurt.

 

Considering the broadhead...it was left there by someone who understands broadheads and knows that you don't handle it by the blades, so no problem. But the next person who finds it may not know anything about broadheads. If I put a rattlesnake in a box and someone gets bitten, should I just shrug it off and say "Well, he should have grabbed it by the tail!"? Even if the rattlesnake head (dead) is there, if you prick your finger on the fangs, you can still get poisoned. How many people know that? Especially a 3 year old!

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<Snipped irrelavant banter>

 

"Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method. "

 

"Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate. "

 

As I stated before, the cache I visted had the "electrical line" buried in the ground underneath the box.

 

 

The cache itself was not buried, therefore NOT against the guidelines. Only the wire. In bad taste? maybe, maybe not. sounds cool to me, but not against the guidelines.

 

Not to be too cold hearted, but the whole broadhead thing, Irresponsible? yeah. but guess what? If it hurts it usually doesn't happen again. It's a sometimes painful lesson called life experience.

Edited by Team DragonMoon
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