GEOCATCH - A new Idea from Volterrano?

[volterrano]

NEW IDEA?

 

Hi from Volterrano

 

We were only introduced to Geocaching very recently and we're loving it. I have had an idea, but it may have either been done, or dismissed as silly some time ago, so please be gentle.

 

I call it Geocatch.

 

The idea would be that a member with a trackable device announces that he will be available to be hunted at a particular time on a particular day and that his general position will be in a particular county (or at stated generalised coordinates). He becomes a Geofox.

 

At the appropriate time, he switches the trackable device on and suddenly everyone can see where he is. The game is to catch him before he switches off again (when he reaches his destination, or sensibly a little way away from it, for security).

 

How you catch him would depend on the type of Geocatch the fox sets. A Carcatch, a Bikecatch and a Footcatch would all be slightly different, but the catching method could be really simple, like the hunter holding up a Geocatch Disc and the fox acknowledging with a similar one.

 

Take an example. You have a trackable device and are planning to travel by car from Cornwall to Cheshire on 14th September. On 12th September you announce this and give the hunt time as being from 12.15pm on 14th until switch off. You choose either fastest route, or one that might put Geocatchers off the scent, depending on how keen you are. At 12.15pm, you switch on and those Geocatchers in Cornwall see how far away you are from them. If they look on their maps and think you will pass on a particular road, they head you off and wait for you. They only have your device blipping away, but don't know if you are a lorry or a motorbike and as you pass, they hold up their disc and hope to get a hoot and a disc waved back at them.

 

Meanwhile all other catchers en route try to do the same and by the time you arrive, you may have been caught many times over. All you have done, is go and see your aunt and whilst doing so have created entertainment for others.

 

Can't see a particular safety issue as long as switch on and switch off are a little way from start and finish points and it could get very obsessive, with hunts happening all over the place.

 

Equally, with Bikecatch, a fox might be in a group of cyclists or alone and may choose an on road or off-road route, giving waypoints as clues. A Geocatch would give an excuse for lone bikers, or groups who know the area and need to get some exercise, to quickly work out a fast route to get to you between waypoints and again, it could become an adrenaline chase, a show of speed from fit foxes and catchers and again, no risks, because the catching is all distant. It would be for the fox alone to decide whether to acknowledge the catch and then invite the Catchers to join him.

 

So, there's the idea. Now what? Is it a good idea? Who do I tell to get it started? What problems can you see?

 

The idea is free and if it's original, I just want to record right here that I thought of it first. If it's been done, well tallyho and show me where.

 

Volterrano.

[+StarBrand]

Similar to a traveling cache.

 

Used to be a bunch of them but now againist the guidelines.

 

Interesting twist on them though......

[+cache_test_dummies]

At the appropriate time, he switches the trackable device on and suddenly everyone can see where he is.

I don't understand. What type of trackable device are you talking about, and what sort of device is required to 'see' it?

[Uberquandary]

At the appropriate time, he switches the trackable device on and suddenly everyone can see where he is.

I don't understand. What type of trackable device are you talking about, and what sort of device is required to 'see' it?

Avalanche beacons?

[+4BOWS]

Sounds kind of like a "foxhunt" in Amateur Radio.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

At the appropriate time, he switches the trackable device on and suddenly everyone can see where he is.

I don't understand. What type of trackable device are you talking about, and what sort of device is required to 'see' it?

There is a fairly range of GPS-based consumer-salable tracking beacon devices available on the market, in the price range of $300 to $4,000, which may be mounted on a vehicle or a person (some are small enuf and light enuf to be placed on a dog's collar if the dog weighs over about 14 pounds) and which transmit real-time location information to to service which then displays the real-time location on their website to anyone logged in on that account. To get an idea of the array of such products available, you may wish to go to Google and enter the following terms (excluding the brackets) [GPS tracking real-time]

 

The GC rules do not currently allow for such a cache type, but, if they eventually do allow it, the biggest challenge will likely be the cost and the logistics/cost of allowing multiple third parties (i.e., cache hunters) to view the location of the target on their PC. A related problem is that the very design/nature of the game might limit participation ONLY to folks who are equipped with laptops with Wi-Fi web access or with cellular wireless Internet access.

[+cache_test_dummies]

There is a fairly range of GPS-based consumer-salable tracking beacon devices available on the market, in the price range of $300 to $4,000, which may be mounted on a vehicle or a person (some are small enuf and light enuf to be placed on a dog's collar if the dog weighs over about 14 pounds) and which transmit real-time location information to to service which then displays the real-time location on their website to anyone logged in on that account. To get an idea of the array of such products available, you may wish to go to Google and enter the following terms (excluding the brackets) [GPS tracking real-time]

Thank you for the information, Vinny. I was unaware that such devices had begun to reach the general consumer marketplace, but of course it makes sense.

 

I took your advice, and investigated some of the online GPS tracking product offerings. In addition to the expense of the unit itself, I see that the general business model for these devices seems to include a monthly operational fee, and in some cases, an activation fee.

 

Given the high cost of entry, a monthly service fee, and the issues you mentioned, I just don't see this all working at the recreational level just yet. I can see being able to do some cool things with the technology, though.

[+Maingray]

Sounds like a great event cache!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

There is a fairly range of GPS-based consumer-salable tracking beacon devices available on the market, in the price range of $300 to $4,000, which may be mounted on a vehicle or a person (some are small enuf and light enuf to be placed on a dog's collar if the dog weighs over about 14 pounds) and which transmit real-time location information to to service which then displays the real-time location on their website to anyone logged in on that account. To get an idea of the array of such products available, you may wish to go to Google and enter the following terms (excluding the brackets) [GPS tracking real-time]

Thank you for the information, Vinny. I was unaware that such devices had begun to reach the general consumer marketplace, but of course it makes sense.

 

I took your advice, and investigated some of the online GPS tracking product offerings. In addition to the expense of the unit itself, I see that the general business model for these devices seems to include a monthly operational fee, and in some cases, an activation fee.

 

Given the high cost of entry, a monthly service fee, and the issues you mentioned, I just don't see this all working at the recreational level just yet. I can see being able to do some cool things with the technology, though.

Yes, you have some good points. However, I am sure that there are some geocachers to whom the expense (i.e., the expense for the hider/target, including the monthly fees) would not be a significant problem. After all, this is a sport where some cachers do any of the following:

• leave $100 bills as trade items in caches which they find (if you do not believe me, go caching in SE Idaho....)
  
• offer $160 plus another $40 worth of goodies as the FTF prize on an extreme cache
  
• spend hundreds of dollars to hire a helicopter to place or maintain an extreme geocache
  
• travel halfway around the world to find a coveted cache
  
• travel to another continent to find a long-lost APE cache hidden in a dense jungle
  
• spend a thousand-plus dollars to travel across the country to a Geowoodstock event and than stay in the area for six days finding 360 caches.
  
• travel from Europe to the USA just to spend two weeks caching with their geo-buddies.
  

It is really just about priorities. So, my guess is that there are thousands of cachers who could afford to be the "cache owner" and support such a hide for at least six months (after that, it could get tiring being hunted every weekend!)

[+cache_test_dummies]

So, my guess is that there are thousands of cachers who could afford to be the "cache owner" and support such a hide for at least six months (after that, it could get tiring being hunted every weekend!)

Ok, I see this in a different light now, and I think you are right - this could be made to work with just a single individual footing the bulk of the expense.

[+The Leprechauns]

If you do a search in the forums on the terms "fox hunt" or foxhunt*, you will find several pages of threads discussing this sort of thing. I recall a lot of discussion right when I joined the site in 2002. The concept, if I recall correctly, is especially popular in Great Britain and in areas of the U.S. where there are lots of ham radio geocachers.

[+welch]

...

 

So, there's the idea. Now what? Is it a good idea? Who do I tell to get it started? What problems can you see?

I've sometimes wondered if you couldn't pay 'foxhunt' as a game at a bigger event if you could get enough people that have garmin Rino units. Otherwise I think it would get pretty costly to buy special equipement just for doing so.

[+Glenn]

There is a fairly range of GPS-based consumer-salable tracking beacon devices available on the market, in the price range of $300 to $4,000, which may be mounted on a vehicle or a person (some are small enuf and light enuf to be placed on a dog's collar if the dog weighs over about 14 pounds) and which transmit real-time location information to to service which then displays the real-time location on their website to anyone logged in on that account. To get an idea of the array of such products available, you may wish to go to Google and enter the following terms (excluding the brackets) [GPS tracking real-time]

 

The GC rules do not currently allow for such a cache type, but, if they eventually do allow it, the biggest challenge will likely be the cost and the logistics/cost of allowing multiple third parties (i.e., cache hunters) to view the location of the target on their PC. A related problem is that the very design/nature of the game might limit participation ONLY to folks who are equipped with laptops with Wi-Fi web access or with cellular wireless Internet access.

 

The Boost cell phone company has a service called Loopt that allows you to see where your friends are if they are within 25 miles of your location you can display their location in real time on a map right on your cell phone. Go to http://www.boostmobile.com/boostloopt/ and click on Watch Loopt Demo. Normally I'd suggest shopping around but as far as I know Boost is the only cell phone company doing this right now. Sprint has had something similar in the works since last year but has announced nothing as of yet.

[+Team FIREBOY]

...

 

I've sometimes wondered if you couldn't pay 'foxhunt' as a game at a bigger event if you could get enough people that have garmin Rino units. Otherwise I think it would get pretty costly to buy special equipement just for doing so.

We have done a "Foxhunt" at an event. Please see this listing, GC116K1

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

If you do a search in the forums on the terms "fox hunt" or foxhunt*, you will find several pages of threads discussing this sort of thing. I recall a lot of discussion right when I joined the site in 2002. The concept, if I recall correctly, is especially popular in Great Britain and in areas of the U.S. where there are lots of ham radio geocachers.

Speaking as someone who was first licensed as a ham radio operator back in the early 1960s, ham radio fox hunts were quite popular even in those days, but they typically do not employ GPS beacons or GPS receivers at all, but rather portable VHF or UHF ham transmitters acting as beacons, and the hunters employ portable VHF or UHF receivers plus small directional antennas to track the "fox".

[+SCBrian]

We used to call it Fox & hounds on the CB band...

That being said, there are other options available...

You can find (and I'm sure the Ham operators can do a better job) items kinda like this:

ebay listing

It can be used to provide a Modulated 'BEEP' on the UHF band. The closer you get to the 'device' the more beeps you hear. It broadcasts the first beep at full power, the next a little lower, etc... so the closer you are the more beeps you hear. They have been used to track lost RC airplanes, etc... That being said, and not getting into the legalities of it. FRMS/GRMS radio's fall into the UHF band. So it could be done somewhat cheaper...

[+Too Tall John]

If I'm not mistaken, Garmin Rhino users can see each other on their radios, would work well into this game...

[+karstic]

Why not have a "real" fox hunt?

 

[+J-Way]

If I'm not mistaken, Garmin Rhino users can see each other on their radios, would work well into this game...

Sortof... you have to transmit your position, and you only transmit a single position. You can't see the other people moving around in real-time.

[+Jeep_Dog]

It may make an interesting event game, if run (literally) like a hash.

 

1) Initial coordinates given for a micro. The "hare" or "fox" begins at that point, and at a designated start time, begins to move (or evade). The "hounds" are released at a different start point, and have coordinates for the start point of the hare.

 

2) Hounds beat feet (paws?) to the hare's first point, find the "cache" that has 2-4 sets of coordinates for the next point. Only one of those points are the correct path for the hare.

 

3) Continue the chase until the hounds catch the hare or end up at a set end point (if hare isn't caught, then good bragging bunny rights). A good end point, by the way, would be a pub.

[+Too Tall John]

If I'm not mistaken, Garmin Rhino users can see each other on their radios, would work well into this game...

Sortof... you have to transmit your position, and you only transmit a single position. You can't see the other people moving around in real-time.

Hmm... sounds like a high tech game of Marco-Polo when you put it that way...

[+kg6dfh]

If you do a search in the forums on the terms "fox hunt" or foxhunt*, you will find several pages of threads discussing this sort of thing. I recall a lot of discussion right when I joined the site in 2002. The concept, if I recall correctly, is especially popular in Great Britain and in areas of the U.S. where there are lots of ham radio geocachers.

Speaking as someone who was first licensed as a ham radio operator back in the early 1960s, ham radio fox hunts were quite popular even in those days, but they typically do not employ GPS beacons or GPS receivers at all, but rather portable VHF or UHF ham transmitters acting as beacons, and the hunters employ portable VHF or UHF receivers plus small directional antennas to track the "fox".

 

Just use APRS.

[mtbikernate]

This sort of thing would be a pretty fun game to play, but I think there are better ways. Vinny & Sue Team mentions a technique HAM operators used to use. There's relatively affordable equipment on the market right now used in wildlife radio telemetry research that does this same thing. You buy a small transmitter that produces a ping at a specific frequency and broadcast range. If you have the right sort of tuner and antenna, you can directionally track it.

 

You could add GPS requirements to such a game, saying you'll start/finish at xx.xxx and yyy.yyy coordinates and folks have to track you from then on.

 

Right now, I really don't think the consumer-level real-time GPS tracking equipment would work right for this. Folks will spend nearly anything in start-up fees, but I think the monthly service for these sorts of things is what will be the problem, and the current services aren't really meant for large amounts of people to view said information.

 

It could certainly be done, though. Someone with the drive and the willingness to startup a new business could market such a service. A low fee (or no fee) to be able to view or be the finder in a 'GeoCatch'. If you want to be the fox, then you would have to buy the transmitter and pay a monthly fee (or a slightly higher monthly fee) for people to try to find you.

 

Current GPSr's won't work for such a game, though. Right now, you would need a GPS-enabled smartphone with www capabilities (not the cheezy watered-down wap internet). You would also have to pay your cell phone company extra for the GPS and the data services to access the site for the game. Data rates are coming down, though, and some providers offer an unlimited plan...and I'm sure GPS rates will drop as more folks use it, too.

 

The Garmin Rino comes close, but it has limitations. For the record, even the Rino has similar sorts of games available on its OS.