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Ettiquette - splitting off new user from team


Team_yox
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Heres' one I couldn't find in the FAQ. When we started caching we created a family account - our children now want to track their own caches (they don't all do the same ones). What is the feeling on this...should the new account start over from zero? Should they go back and re-log the finds they've already done (And can they use the original date)? We've been caching for a couple of years...so the back logs could be significant....

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Team_yox
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They can go back and log all the finds they've done--That happens a lot around here. They don't really have to come up with something clever to say about each cache, a simple "Logging this under my own account. I was previously part of "Team_yox"" would be fine.

 

They can also opt to start fresh, if they prefer. They'll always know they had additional caches with the team.

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I disagree with all. If you went to the cache as a team and only the team's username is in the log book then for a split off new member to log the cache I think they should return to the cache and put their name in the book.

I know many teams where the wife has visited a cache and the husband has not or the other way around, but only one web log is done by the team. They do not have multiple names and perhaps one may visit a cache that the other has visited only to realize that the team has visited it so they do not multiple-log it.

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I disagree with all. If you went to the cache as a team and only the team's username is in the log book then for a split off new member to log the cache I think they should return to the cache and put their name in the book.

I know many teams where the wife has visited a cache and the husband has not or the other way around, but only one web log is done by the team. They do not have multiple names and perhaps one may visit a cache that the other has visited only to realize that the team has visited it so they do not multiple-log it.

What would you do in our case? My husband and I usually cache together, and whichever one of us signs the log typically writes "Team Neos" --but we always log the cache on our separate accounts (Neos 1, and Neos2). Would you not allow our individual logs to stand?

 

When we cache separately, we sign the individual name--so if I'm with other cachers and he's not along, I sign "Neos2" in the log book. He doesn't claim that one as a find unless and until he goes there himself.

 

Sometimes we go out with a large group of cachers, and make up a name for the whole hee-haw gang such as "the Anniversary Breakfast group" and one person signs for all--then folks log on their individual or team accounts.

 

(I'll tell you what we do when we cache outside our "home" area after I hear your response).

Edited by Neos2
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People try and make the game to complicated. If the kids were there let them log it. Try and log the date the team was there. They are not hurting anyone as I suppose they are still part of the larger team they are just adding thier name to an on line log. Let them play the game. It's all about the fun isn't it. Don't rain on the kids parade.

Edited by smcpeaknkids
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What would you do in our case? My husband and I usually cache together, and whichever one of us signs the log typically writes "Team Neos" --but we always log the cache on our separate accounts (Neos 1, and Neos2). Would you not allow our individual logs to stand?

 

You answered your own question.

Your individual logs are totally OK by me as I have stated my position. If on the other hand you did not have the two neos1 and neos2 accounts and only the one neos account then I think it would not be OK for one of you to log a cache that the other one of you had previously logged.

 

Of course that's all my opinion and what anyone does is up to them and the cache owner who just might delete a second log of his cache by the apparently same cacher regardless of what's written in the online logs and/or in the logbook.

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Trainlove's opinion is an extreme left and don't let that sway you.

 

Generally speaking, it is an acceptable practice for the individual who splits off to go back and log the find on the cache page even though they did not individually sign the logbook as long as they announce the team name that they were with. I haven't heard of any owner deleting logs when this is done. Trainlove, again, may be the exception to the rule. :(

Edited by TotemLake
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I've heard others say they would delete an online log if the logbook did not match the physical log. I suppose they would have deleted both my log and my husband's since neither of us is "Team Neos" (When we travel outside our home area we usually sign as Neos1 and Neos2 in the logbooks, just in case we run into an owner that won't allow one signature for a team, since we probably won't be back to sign separately).

 

If I understand trainlove correctly, they would allow Neos1 and Neos2 to keep their online log if the logbook read Team Neos--but they wouldn't allow "Team Neos" to log the cache twice online (And that is their choice as owners, if you ask me). And that makes sense to me--although I do know of at least one group that uses only one account for a team of four or five people, but logs once for each person that visits the cache. So the cache page may read:

May 1st "Team Five found it" --found it with Dad and Sue

May 1st "Team Five found it" --found it with Sam and Sue

May 1st "Team Five found it" --found it with Dad and Sam

May 5th "Team Five found it" --Dad and Sam and Sue said this one was good, so I came to look too!

 

I'm not sure what trainlove would do the family above, but many cache owners I know would delete all but one of those logs, and tell the group they have to log it only once if they choose to log as a family. Some cache owners dislike it when people who don't always cache together log as a group, because each person in the group could go to a different state and each log caches for the same day on that one account.

(Personally, I don't care if people log as a group. I don't because I want it to be easy to see which caches I've been to that Neos 1 hasn't and which ones he's done and recommended I go do, too---that's why we log separately! But if someone else is happy with the group accounting of all cache activity, it's fine by me--it's their accounting list)

 

On the other hand, most people would let this one stand:

May 1st 2001 "Team Seven found it" --found it with the entire gang

May 1st 2001 "Lonely One found it"--I used to be part of Team Seven, but now I'm away at college and can't cache with the folks any longer so I'm starting my own account and logging separately. Originally logged on Dec 10 2006 but back dating it so you know when I was there!

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In our family, my husband first caught the caching bug, he signed up for an account n(KK7UZ) and often we would tag along but only he would log. A few months I decided to get an account, DiMonkey. I went back and physically logged some of the the caches I had found with my husband before I had and account, but only logged those that I returned to...Later our sons, broke off and became Cachinator & Co. Again they returned to some previous finds and only logged those. We then decided to get a family account, CampClan. We use this account whenever we are out as a group. We usually sign the log:

CampClan

KK7UZ, DiMonkey, Cachinator & Co.

We will often vary the order we list the members, based on who actually found the cache (they get top billing). When we get home we we log for CampClan, and then as individuals. If we have a DNF we log it only as CampClan. This way it doesn't look to the owner or future hunters that "Oh no there have been 5 DNFs in a row, the cache must be missing..." If we are out as individuals, we log our finds and DNFs as such.

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OK I'm going to say this one more time. But please re-read my posts on this issue, they are quite self explanatory.

 

1. If a team called Team ABCD found a cache and logged it in the book and online as Team ABCD, no problem. Then if, a year later, Team ABCD became 4 spearate accounts A, B, C and D, then it WOULD NOT be OK for A or B or C or D to log that cache then and there without first re-visiting it. Once they do so then they can log it. When they visit the cache they log the book as A or B or C or D and also online. they might make mention that a team member visited the cache a year ago if they feel like it of even know that's the case.

 

2. But what most of the followup replies have NOT understood is the following situation, again it's spelled out exactly in my posts. If there is only the one account, Team ABCD, and there are actually 4 members, if member A finds a cache and logs it online as Team ABCD, then a month later a second member of that team finds that cache (shame on him for not knowing that the team has found it already) it's NOT OK for Team ABCD to log again online, sure they can log a note stating that a different member of the team has visited the cache.

 

All of you are seriously not stating that you think it's OK for a cache to have 4 logs by the same username?

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I believe your original log was misunderstood. It sounded like you were saying that a member of the team who later had their own account created could not log the find under their new account name. When we cache as a group we appoint one finder to fill out the logbook for all of us (normally the last one to find the cache is elected). All of the cachers handles are logged. If someone makes a trade or has something special to say he or she will log their own find. My daughter has never created her on line account, but has signed many log books with her geocaching name. If she shoud later decide she wants an online account I think that you would have no problem with her logging her finds on line at that time.

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All of you are seriously not stating that you think it's OK for a cache to have 4 logs by the same username?

I would think it would be confusing to use the same name for a team of several people and try to keep track of who had been to a cache and who had not. That's why I recommend that everyone give some serious consideration to not creating a team account.

 

If you only cache together and will never cache alone, a team account may work. I say may because I've seen the forum threads time and time again asking what to do with the team account when the couple splits up or the kids grow up and get married or go off to college or just want to log separately.

 

As far as whether its OK to have the same cache name log the cache more than once for each member. Well, I personally think that's confusing, but I can't say it's "wrong" -- If that's how they want to keep their tally, I don't have any reason to object. It really isn't any different number-wise, so there isn't any real harm. Look at it this way:

 

Scenario A:

my husband and I go to your cache (that's two people) we sign it "Team Neos" and we come home and log it two times, once from my account "Neos2 found your cache" and once from his account "Neos 1 found your cache" (that's two logs from two accounts and you've said that would be OK with you).

 

Scenario B:

my husband and I go to your cache (that's two people) we sign it "Team Neos" and we come home home and log it two times, once saying "Team Neos found your cache- Neos 1" and once saying "Team Neos found your cache - Neos2" (that's two logs from one account and you've said you wouldn't care for that).

 

Both cases are two people, two logs. Then thre is scenario C:

We go to your cache and sign it "Team Neos" (that's two people) and we come home and log it one time saying "Team Neos visited your cache" and then two or three months later, I decide I want my own account so we can keep track of which caches he's been to and which ones I've been to, so I log again under my own account, saying "Neos2 visted your cache as part of Team Neos, but now I"m logging on my own account"

It's still two people, two logs, two accounts. I don't understand why you want the person with the new account to visit your cache twice to get their one log?

 

As I said, I wouldn't want to keep track of things the scenario B way (I'd have to read through every log to see if I had actually been to the cache or if some other member of my team had found the cache) but I know people who do it that way. I strongly discourage it, but only because it's confusing, not because I think it's actually wrong in some way (other than perhaps being discourteous to the cache owner, who also should check through the logs to see if the same person is logging the cache repeatedly).

 

On the other hand, I am curious why you want someone who really has already been to your cache to go back just because they change the name they log under. If I change my user name should I have to go back to relog the cache log before I can log online? If I signed it "Sherri A" should I go back to sign it "Neos2" before I can log it? Frankly, I'm confused now and I wasn't before.

 

Oh, and by-the-way I'm still not disagreeing with you--As the cache owner, I think you have the right to hold any of these opinions and I'm really not picking on you--I'm just getting curious about your thoughts on this!

Edited by Neos2
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OK I'm going to say this one more time. But please re-read my posts on this issue, they are quite self explanatory.

 

1. If a team called Team ABCD found a cache and logged it in the book and online as Team ABCD, no problem. Then if, a year later, Team ABCD became 4 spearate accounts A, B, C and D, then it WOULD NOT be OK for A or B or C or D to log that cache then and there without first re-visiting it. Once they do so then they can log it. When they visit the cache they log the book as A or B or C or D and also online. they might make mention that a team member visited the cache a year ago if they feel like it of even know that's the case.

 

2. But what most of the followup replies have NOT understood is the following situation, again it's spelled out exactly in my posts. If there is only the one account, Team ABCD, and there are actually 4 members, if member A finds a cache and logs it online as Team ABCD, then a month later a second member of that team finds that cache (shame on him for not knowing that the team has found it already) it's NOT OK for Team ABCD to log again online, sure they can log a note stating that a different member of the team has visited the cache.

1. I disagree. If you want to delete such logs on your caches, that's your privilege. I believe most cache owners would let the relog stand.

 

2. This one I probably agree with. One cache acount logging a cache twice is just silly.

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OK I'm going to say this one more time. But please re-read my posts on this issue, they are quite self explanatory.

 

1. If a team called Team ABCD found a cache and logged it in the book and online as Team ABCD, no problem. Then if, a year later, Team ABCD became 4 spearate accounts A, B, C and D, then it WOULD NOT be OK for A or B or C or D to log that cache then and there without first re-visiting it. Once they do so then they can log it. When they visit the cache they log the book as A or B or C or D and also online. they might make mention that a team member visited the cache a year ago if they feel like it of even know that's the case.

 

...

 

so If I understand, if someone changes their user name and relogs the caches they found under their previous name, you would delete them? (unless they revisited etc)

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If you only cache together and will never cache alone, a team account may work. I say may because I've seen the forum threads time and time again asking what to do with the team account when the couple splits up or the kids grow up and get married or go off to college or just want to log separately.

 

Scenario B:

my husband and I go to your cache (that's two people) we sign it "Team Neos" and we come home home and log it two times, once saying "Team Neos found your cache- Neos 1" and once saying "Team Neos found your cache - Neos2" (that's two logs from one account and you've said you wouldn't care for that).

 

Both cases are two people, two logs. Then thre is scenario C:

We go to your cache and sign it "Team Neos" (that's two people) and we come home and log it one time saying "Team Neos visited your cache" and then two or three months later, I decide I want my own account so we can keep track of which caches he's been to and which ones I've been to, so I log again under my own account, saying "Neos2 visted your cache as part of Team Neos, but now I"m logging on my own account"

It's still two people, two logs, two accounts. I don't understand why you want the person with the new account to visit your cache twice to get their one log?

 

On the other hand, I am curious why you want someone who really has already been to your cache to go back just because they change the name they log under. If I change my user name should I have to go back to relog the cache log before I can log online? If I signed it "Sherri A" should I go back to sign it "Neos2" before I can log it? Frankly, I'm confused now and I wasn't before.

 

OK, I bored with this thread, but will add a few more cents to it hoping to elucidate my opinion better. Of course I know youre not picking on my but isn't that what the rants um I mead Forums are actually for?

 

I know a cache team where the husband died. The wife wants to change the name due to the constant emotional pain associated with seeing his name every time she logs.

 

Scenario B is OK with me. But if yourt team is 15 people as is a team I know, I don't honestly believe every member of that team has been to the cache the one tim e that team loged it. Teams of 2 or 3 are easier for the team to manage and the cache owner to not get pissed off with.

 

Scenario C I guess I'm not fully OK with but as long as that team member was actually at the cache when the team loged it months ago then it's OK. As is the changing of a cacher name for a non-team username. But of course you are backdating the log right? And not claiming a find today, right?

 

That's where your last statement comes in. If a team of 12 people visited a cache but only 6 of them actually went to the cache. The team logs it a few months ago. Since then there are now 12 new usernames. Only the 6 who were actually there that day can log it today, but their log will not be today, they MUST backdate it to the day that parts of the team were actually there. Sure it will look strange that a username was created on a/b/c but had finds many months before the username was created, but I rather the geocaching.com web site have the confusion than me.

 

I hope that's clear. I think it also answers Welches question, a revisit is not needed as long as that person/part of the team actually went to the cache when the team went, in the past.

 

P.S. I have never deleted anyones log of my few caches. But someone has deleted his own log for some reason and do you know that you, as the cache owner, will not get an email stating that a log was deleted? I guess that's the same reason you will not get hundreds of emails when people edit their logs.

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P.S. I have never deleted anyones log of my few caches. But someone has deleted his own log for some reason and do you know that you, as the cache owner, will not get an email stating that a log was deleted? I guess that's the same reason you will not get hundreds of emails when people edit their logs.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I thought we were of a similar frame of mind, and it turns out we are.

 

I knew that I wouldn't get a notification if someone changed their log, but I didn't know that the owner didn't get a log if someone deleted their own log. I think you're right about that saving you from getting tons of emails all the time.

 

I've heard of people who decide they don't want any online logs, or deciding to delete all their old logs after they change user names, etc. Unless someone emailed me to say they were deleting their log in some sort of protest against my cache, I'd probably assume they did it for some innnocent reason like that. (I tend to be a PollyAnna type who sees the world through rose colored glasses and assumes that everyone else is the same way).

 

From the other perspective, if anyone had a real issue with one of my caches and was considering deleting their log for that reason, I'd hope they would feel they could email me about it, so I would have the chance to address their concern if possible. I know that some people are uncomfortable about contacting an owner, though, because it's hard to be that forthright --and admittedly some cache owners aren't reasonable or don't want any negative feedback. But I think the majority of us cachers can be accommodating if we are given the chance. I know I like people to find my caches and I love to read the logs, so I try to be receptive to honest criticism.

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Wow! I thought we really got stuck on things in my Motorcycle Forum.

 

I know Im a newbie here, but it seems to me to be just a bit complicated. We do this as a family activity in order to spend time with the kids. If one of them decide to start logging there own finds and they want to go back and add logs to the previous finds then more power to them if they are willing to do the work.

 

Other than that I just dont see where its really such a big deal. As I said we do this for fun.

 

Dc

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Wow! I thought we really got stuck on things in my Motorcycle Forum.

 

I know Im a newbie here, but it seems to me to be just a bit complicated. We do this as a family activity in order to spend time with the kids. If one of them decide to start logging there own finds and they want to go back and add logs to the previous finds then more power to them if they are willing to do the work.

 

Other than that I just dont see where its really such a big deal. As I said we do this for fun.

[emphasis mine]

Dc

And that, right there, is what it's all about. Who cares? If Team A is still active, but a member isn't caching with the team, why shouldn't they log all their finds? I've cached with others, and I know we found caches that I would probably not found then without them locating it first, but I can't go out and "find it" now, can I? I mean, I already know where to look. The actual hunt is lost for me now. It's up to the individual cacher.

 

It really isn't about the numbers!

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Heres' one I couldn't find in the FAQ. When we started caching we created a family account - our children now want to track their own caches (they don't all do the same ones). What is the feeling on this...should the new account start over from zero? Should they go back and re-log the finds they've already done (And can they use the original date)? We've been caching for a couple of years...so the back logs could be significant....

 

Thoughts?

Back to the OP -

Should the new account start over from zero? - Up to you, it doesn't have to.

 

Should they go back and relog the finds...? Up to you. I would log them on-line as per Neos2 suggestion in post #2.

 

Can they use the original date? I might help the cache owner understand the post a little better.

 

Revisiting the cache is unnecessary.

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